[000:00:00;00] that for many people, as well as distinguished guests of the studio, the events of the day in two hours, the big air of vasyl zimi, a project for intelligent and caring people in the evening on espresso. so , our program continues, our air, oleg sakken, who was promised by the political scientist, the head of the platform, the only condensation, the coordination center, contact us oleg, thank you for finding time for us. i congratulate you. my greetings are also here. i am tormented by vague doubts, as they say in the russian federation. here is a quote from the united states senator graham. senator ham said that the elections in ukraine must be held. even in the conditions of war, on the other hand, the vast majority of major experts say it is simply impossible. we cannot provide it there for millions of people in europe in euros. and the area of ​​the polling stations there. well, i don't know the units. well

, okay, dozens and it's not proportional. millions and tens are the same what to do with the temporarily occupied territories, what to do with internally displaced persons. i have been living in lviv for a year and a half and i have to vote here. does the government know where i am, or will they send me an invitation to my kyiv address? in lviv, in short, the number of questions is huge, but if these questions were not there, this is my main question, mr. oleg, to hold or not to hold here, let's imagine that everything was organized perfectly, but the state of the war is not perfect, it continues, would you support the idea of ​​holding elections during elections during war, i'm sorry, but if all the complexities of the issues provoked by the war were already removed, well, imagine this war has been going on for the tenth year already, everything has been adapted to the conditions of the war, and we are a kind of israel in the arab

-israeli conflict. it is clear that under during the war, which continues and continues for a very long time, elections must be prophesied, let me remind you that the war has been going on in our country since the 14th year, and we held elections during the war, but then when all the conditions for this were possible to ensure the democratic process, the competitiveness of the election well, and many, many other things i.e., everything that is currently impossible to ensure, therefore, it is possible to simulate elections, and somehow it would be possible, but it will not be an election in essence, and such an election, first of all, is not recognized by ukrainian society, any match that will be thrown in at this time, he can simply burn down the entire process. well, there is some kind of falsification, like through the courts, how to change them, how to work with it in general. because it is really impossible now, commanders against their subordinates, subordinates against their commanders, will go to the elections. and if

the military is not allowed to accept participation in elections and now it is prohibited, then we exclude a whole cohort of the population from the possibility of active suffrage, that is, running for office, and in society there is this stereotype that boys and girls from the front will return to order i will take the time to say that i am afraid of this thesis, because those who are now at the front are really the golden reserve of ukraine and they are really people who prove by their actions that they are the best in our society, but this does not mean that they are the most professional , for example, in reforms in management in many other things, therefore, it will be necessary to immediately look at what and what after that, the experience of combat combat uniform is a big fat plus, but it should not be the only one and it cannot replace everything . and if elections are announced now, then society expects what about the military will be

personnel reserve and it will not be there. in short, it is impossible to hold elections now, to announce them now is a total destruction , and here we are entering the field of a certain conspiracy theory, why then, from all the irons, they start talking about it and the grammy lens is the first on the last of the western possible rulers who probes the soil but he just so directly and boldly said that the elections should be held . to approach and not about the fact that the united states sent a message of disarmament to ukraine and now how will it be carried out thank god this inferiority complex that someone from somewhere is sending us messages and controlling us, he left yesterday and now as a marginal discussion only continues but it is obvious that it is not just like that and there can be several motivations for this . the first is the most banal motivation. a number

of international organizations are interested in the elections in ukraine taking place because for them it is banal seasonal work and they receive crazy money for participating in election processes, observing the election process, conducting trainings, and everything else, and when it's a war, the multiplier is several times greater, because the country is dangerous, and they come here in fairy-tale bulletproof vests in order to conduct trainings and receive their business trips x3x5 salary . do you think that these organizations are currently lobbying in international organizations with other political players for elections to be held in ukraine, without a doubt, i even know, i understand i added your logic. but i am terribly pleased that russia and ukrainians are usually suspected of influencing america . we somehow influence the elections there. we somehow support

biden against trump. scandals. and now, finally , the americans intervene in the internal affairs of ukraine. they say hold elections. i believe that ukraine is now equal to america. and again about america , yes, not everyone will like the next question. i am convinced of such a candidate . i think he has no chance from the republican party in the primaries. to ceylon, his ancestors or from india, you say that crimea should be given to russia, but in russia , betray it so that it quits out of its embrace. my secret to me is not about china, russia, my question is whether the ukrainian society is ready for non-final victories because in ukrainian society

at least a minimum - this is the exit to the borders of the year 1991. i would say that during the war there are always many options, we cannot say with 158,000 percent certainty that this will be the case with society in the event of the loss of three square meters in the luhansk region or in in the crimea region or in the donetsk region, they will say all this is a defeat, but in fact it is a victory, we are the main thing, we saved the state and society on our basis, not on the russian one. it seems to me that this is already a big victory. well, we have not let russia win , for sure russia has already lost another the matter what will be the victory here? you are right that there are many different modalities that there can be negotiations and now the west is groping. how is it that russia lost but did not crumble and ukraine won and at the same time felt this victory

? well, this is a separate topic, but of course these discussions are continue and answer the question directly or ukrainian no it is not ready and thank god that it is not ready now because there is a sufficiently high level of social cohesion and a certain vision of how to end this war and accordingly it is now mobilizing and uniting and this is correct at today's stage and there how the situation will develop, we will look at common sentiments, it is also a quite dynamic substance, and to date there is no evidence that it is necessary to adjust, let's say our plans. about the elections, there is also a game for the american audience with this topic, there is a third one - it is a conspiracy theory that in this way they can prepare ukraine for negotiations with russia and look for leverage here, and this candidate, by the way, is an ethnic hindu. he is a very person who has made his name there

business and he appeared for a reason in the primaries there was no trump and he is a very good background political technology and now we see him now the woman before that was just this ramasvani oh no it's not no it's not him it's desantis dynamo of spain yes and such a phenomenon as technical candidates are inherent not only in ukrainian politics, and we imagine such a classic republican voter. usually this is a supporter of traditional traditionalist christian values, as we understand it, mr. romani is most likely not associated with a decent christian. quite conservative in her ethnic preferences, at least skeptical of opleralism , and in some places, if we take the trembiian wing , there are frank russians

, that is, they occur. panora maslani takes the first place in the debate and also pushes topics that are even more, i'm sorry, stubborn than those pushed by mr. trump, who should hold republican elections against this background , obviously vote for trump because he is such a moderate res, such a demanding person, everything with hints of racism, everything like the likes of the majority of voters. well, not the majority, but a significant part of the republican electorate. in fact, you and i now understand why one of the outsiders according to the a-a ratings of the candidates appeared at all in in these programs, we understand that candidates are submitted for a reason, and this is also a world that passes within the party, and also received its 5 minutes of fame and also identified as the one

who the relocation issues please excuse the last question, there are constant conversations about cutting support for ukraine, the americans hint at this is what the europeans say, and we will not support it if the americans stop, and on the other hand, my lame head tells me zak's order, the military is already distributed, i have a hard time imagining that the white house he says to that plant or that factory, he says, you know everything, we terminate the contract. and how do you terminate the contract? i have written that the american government ordered me to do something for 3 billion for a long two years, and now the white house says no, we don't need to pay me 3 billion plus a penalty of 2 billion , please, i don't care. so how much can we believe in this , well, such a weirdo, you know, we are afraid that

the americans will stop something , how will they stop it? the military-industrial lobby that should be developed and installed in ukraine later is one of the strongest political lobbies in the united states and in many european countries , and the military-industrial sector occupies a serious part of the economic life and formation of the country's gdp, therefore, of course, no one will be able to insert a crowbar into this mechanism and a wheel of incantation and no help to ukraine will be too expensive for political reputation and for the stability of political and opportunity there criticism of everything else, in short, reputationally, they won’t do it of course they can the flow of aid can decrease, it can be adjusted to increase or decrease, something may be delayed, there is a mechanism for how it can be manipulated, but it will not be possible to leave ukraine to its own devices due to its own internal factors, which meant and secondly, as soon as the situation in

ukraine is not going well, it causes fears that ukraine can lose in the russian-ukrainian war even by airplanes , we can see which ones were planned to go there for the summer almost already for the spring summer and now that the information has gone out that ukraine can break through the front without airplanes well, it's not that you are not capable but it is very difficult and everything is not very rosy at all, the american media wrote, sprinkled their heads with ashes, then found out that the planes can be a little earlier. the united states can go to the point of allowing partners to train ukrainian pilots right here and now, the process that was blocked for about six months, that is, excuse me now there is an advertisement written here up to four minutes advertisement this is my salary and not only mine, but everyone who works for espresso , that's why i am forced to interrupt the interesting story of oleksa okaan, political scientist, head of the platform

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radiculitis, arthritis and arthrosis with all these in case of problems, the means for external application of dikrasin will come in handy. consultations by phone 0800-215 349 calls are free of charge war is going on and not only for territories it is also a war for minds russia is throwing millions of oil dollars to turn ukrainians into little russians ukraine will become russia analysis and analysis information about ukraine by russian propagandists concrete facts and methods by which enemy propaganda turns people into obedient zombies plan to vote residents of the ldr let's counter the information attacks of the russians in project chronicles of the information war with olga leni tuesday thursday friday at 17:10 on the espresso tv channel every week the saturday political club helps to understand the processes taking place in

ukraine and the world vitaly portnikov the host of espresso and invited experts based on facts give their assessment and forecast of the development of events you want to understand how our today will affect our tomorrow see the saturday political club that saturdays are not espresso the war in ukraine is the main topic for ukrainians victories and losses analysis and forecasts politics and geopolitics about all this serhii rudenko and the guests of his program will speak, people who have information and shape public opinion, people who defend ukraine and create the future, the main and interesting thing in the program is the verdict of serhiy rudenko from monday to friday at 20:00, repeat at 12:10

once again good hello, ladies and gentlemen. yes, we will talk now with oleksandra , the romantic executive director of the center for civil liberties, this is exactly the center . i hope for oleksandr, who won last year's english prize. now i will see the first question. which one will i answer well? health and you even held this medal, do you want to hold this medal, this diploma ? well, somehow, are you involved in the nobel process at all? to see how it all looked for you is simple. yes, i was the second person who came to the award ceremony. that year, oleksandra matviychuk gave a lecture. she prepared the text of this speech in ukrainian. she basically decided to do it not in english-ukrainian, and yes, the diploma

is in the office. so, if you come to visit, you can also take a picture if you want. of course, the medal was also brought and it is here, and there are such exceptions that it is possible to join your organization and not be oleksandra. is this a condition that if you already work there, then you are definitely oleksandra, i am glad that i have one of oleksandr's daughters, so she may have a chance some. and during the maidan, we had six uh, oleksandr and we came up with special modifications, we had shusha , we had sanchez, we had oleksandra, sasha lesya , there were a lot of nuances, but in fact, we still have ivanka ivanna. we also have two yes that we never discriminate against any person on behalf of and welcome to absolutely everyone, we invite you to study , which is open and free of charge, we have the kyiv school of human rights, and so if you want to get to know

our activities and hear how you can actually protect yourself as a human right, you can support it in ukraine and in the world please go to training like this now. from such partially humorous to very serious very very first all journalists are ukrainian, well not all. well, a lot was said about the fact that ukraine will agree to a hybrid tribunal, but as always, ukrainian journalists, whom i always i have been criticizing all my life, including myself , no one has explained what a hybrid tribunal is, what they cross with in this tribunal and what ukrainians agree with to a certain extent. journalists in the process when they deal with a rather difficult topic of international

justice. there are really many nuances, for example, thank god, since 2014, we have trained journalists to indicate which hague court they mean, because there are five of them, including national, dutch, yes. when we talk about a hybrid international tribunal, these are several models that have already been implemented , none of which seem to be suitable, because what was previously used in other countries during conflicts or genocides does not always happen during a military conflict . the model does not suit us at all. nowhere has this level of almost online documentation of international crimes ever happened on the territory of ukraine. ukraine is an absolutely unique case in this case. and that's why we want tabunal to answer as much as possible in an emotional way, you know, an emotional response to the aggression

of the russian federation or a real legal response to all these crimes that happened in the last 9 years until the 22nd year, we are for have documented more than 10,000 cases now in our database since february 24 in the database of the tribunal for putin, this is our initiative, almost 50,000 cases , respectively, the task is to provide justice to every person who suffered from three types of international crimes - these are war crimes , crimes against humanity and genocide, but none of the existing international judicial mechanisms do not cover the crime of aggression, it is the fourth most terrible international crime. in general, all international crimes are not forgiven , they are unrealistically the most terrible in the world, that is why they are allocated to a separate such international procedure and therefore they need their

own investigation and conviction over national mechanisms, so when we talk about a hybrid a tribunal is called a type of tribunals that mix , mix, for example, several approaches that not one country directly deals with justice. and this is some kind of international community and next, what is the model of hybrid tribunals, who is proposing to us, that is, there are hybrid tribunals that are issued under the jurisdiction of the affected country, for example, the tribunal that was offered to us by others and is also called internationalized - this is our national judicial system, which is supplemented by some international mechanisms, but unfortunately it is absolutely not it does not practically and legally cover it. well, it almost does not cover these legal needs of ours that we need, that we need. we need to condemn putin and

all those who represented the russian government federation for the last nine years, because it was their administrative and political decision to start this aggression, implement it, never stop, spend money , resources, taxes of their own citizens, of their own citizens, send a camel, that is, these people who made such a decision, they should be condemned moreover, the convicted, they are all in such and such a position that has international immunity, the president, the minister of foreign affairs and the head of the government, they have such immunity, so we need an international tribunal precisely in order to to overcome this immunity so that we can specifically condemn them for this decision to start aggression for 9 years. and for this , the option of creating something inside ukraine , even with some international elements, ms.

oleksandra, is not suitable. i still have the constitution , i need to change it. from previous thoughts, despite the fact that i am absolutely not a lawyer, the following thesis emerges : the world and ukrainian legal community are not ready for actions that could ultimately condemn the russians. i mean, for example, not only these legal points that we are talking about now you say 50,000 cases, but they tell me there are 100,000, there are still some other options, and where i sit and ask, where would i find 150,000 prosecutors, investigative lawyers ? i apologize if we somehow think about the europe of judges and

and it's just some tens of thousands of qualified and highly qualified people who are not there, who can be in poland , in germany, you can collect them all, they will be found , but they don't know, they don't know the ukrainian language , the ukrainian judges and investigators don't know the english language, and it's just impunity , is there any way to legal happiness ukrainians against russians is absolutely here, it is necessary to clearly understand that justice begins with the fact that what happened is recognized as a crime, and then we investigate, collect facts, we recognize the victims, especially the status, that is , look, there is a punishment, justice consists 50x50 of such things, the punishment of the aggressor and help restoration of the rights of the one who suffered, i.e. look, if putin is still caught, it is necessary to physically convict him in the same way as 20-30 people in power , in the same way as, well, for example, beauty, we

cannot physically push her into the courtroom in any way, although he is on the field commander and his order and led to war crimes. that is, they must be condemned, even if we do not look at the fact that now we have a situation that prigozhyn died, yes , that is, this situation seems to us that yes, it is very difficult, but we can make our way . without wasting money now and waiting for the end of the war or the physical arrest of the one whom we are accusing, a lot needs to be done before that, and indeed this is an unprecedented challenge to any legal system of any country this is an unprecedented challenge from the point of view that we have documented so quickly so many more than 100,000 - the general prosecutor 's office has opened cases, our 50,000 are included, these hundred thousand, yes , all these crimes must be punished and we must start this path now, for this ukrainian prosecutors must be trained to

this legislation of ukraine should be germanized with international criminal law and international humanitarian law. we proposed this bill back in 2016. it was signed by the parliament. unfortunately , it was not signed by the president. proposed the ratification of the rome statute because currently the rome statute has jurisdiction, that is, the rome statute is the document on the basis of which the international criminal court operates, which also opens cases, and these cases are aimed at the personal responsibility of the biggest fish. that is, we already have accusations against putin, but we see the accused there should be generals , the case of undermining the support of kakhovka should be considered , there should be cases of kidnapping , torture, that is, but the international criminal court will only take five, maybe

seven cases, because they are aimed at the personal responsibility of the biggest fish, that is, this whole system is complicated, but the case is also complicated , and so we need to learn, so our judges need to understand what international humanitarian law is and how to correctly convict, qualitatively convict criminals, because if we do it poorly these criminals go to the european court of human rights and below they are paid compensation the last question is very short and very hmm i highly suggest you answer briefly is it more than 10 years all of this or less than 10 years this is if we take it on that's right, when we get dressed, we have to do it and how long it will take will depend on how seriously we will take it all and how seriously the political will will support this oleksandr romantsova, executive director

of the center for civil liberties. this is the one who won the nobel prize, i'm hinting, and now i'm not saying anything subtle. now the news is with anna eva melnyk like this. good afternoon. thank you for your work . next, you are working as a news editor. we will tell you about the most important things in the air force of the armed forces of ukraine. they confirmed the sad news in zhytomyr oblast an aircraft wreck occurred as a result of the collision of two l-39 combat training aircraft, three pilots were killed, an investigation into the circumstances of the accident was launched, the state bureau of investigation of the air force was informed that among the dead was a well-known military man with the call sign jus . took part in the battles for