[000:00:00;00] how on the battlefield, how do we evaluate our successes in the international community and about what is moscow lying from the stream of news coming from everywhere , we single out the most important ones, closely monitoring whether there will be weapons for ukraine and what and what the russian occupiers are whispering about behind the backs of the news commanders. the results of the week are an overview only important events, events of weighty trustworthiness - this is analytics, fact checking, expert comments, much more, everything about important is available in plain language to all viewers in the iryna koval studio . on saturdays at 9:00 p.m. most espresso every week the saturday political club helps to understand the processes taking place in ukraine and the world vitaly portnikov host

espresso and invitation experts based on facts give their assessment and forecast of the development of events want to understand how our today will affect our tomorrow watch the saturday political club every saturday on espresso hello, this is freedom, the morning, the informational project of radio svoboda, guests are here every day, this is the shipping district of kherson, we turn it on live, we work out bahmut, we tell the main thing on weekdays at 9:00 that's right, the studio is listening to me and this means that we will continue our program now 18:31 so in 29 minutes it will be a on java melnyk and now we will talk about africa

marta oliynyk, a young researcher , an africanist will be in touch with us now, mrs. marta good health. thank you for finding the opportunity to talk with us. it's my first time in ukraine. my first question is a very general african question. is it possible to imagine or do you, as a specialist, imagine a great african war in the sahel? because when i'm just watching the tape now the news is me i sit and think. so here we have sudan, we already have it, we already see that the burkas will help niger, do i want too much burkina fa soi are small, and other countries that are also there, neighbors say, take the opposite to help restore the activities of the former. i don’t i know if you can say that to the president, we

don't forget about sudan and there are huge problems there. as far as i understand, this strip is shorter than the north of the sahara, it hums with a terrible sound if you add that there are french interests , american interests, chinese interests russian interests may end due to the end of life, ah, prigozhina, we don’t know, in short, is this true, maybe a great african war, sal p, mykola , first of all, zahel was always like that, he was always unstable, because he was actually at the junction there were always many interests there there have always been important minerals, many coups, a poor population. that is, it is such a complex of problems that there are that determines the fact that the sahil is so unstable, returning to the situation more to the niger, actually

, the junta is really now. well, it was yesterday in my opinion was they have agreed on joint joint actions in the event of an intervention. but at the same time, the intervention option seems to remain on the table , but the country you have is increasingly considering a diplomatic solution, since , again, not everyone is a supporter of this big uh, if we were to define a big war, the great intervention, not everyone wants to start uh, let's say a war in which, which might drag on for a long time, from which, it is not known how , what will be the future of the regions, what will be the future of niger as a big country, which has its own worrisome problems, whether or not this intervention will actually speed up or not trigger an even greater wave of terrorist attacks, that is, all this remains on the surface for now. they propose their transition plan, they say they will be in power for 36 months, and after that there will be a transfer of power to the civilian

civilian government to the civilian administration, but in fact , eco-vas does not agree to such a long transit period and if you look in principle, on the history of these african coups and their subsequent transition to civilian power, very often this transit period was interrupted somewhere in the middle by any coup , no power came to the hands of civilians, and accordingly , everything only worsened. this is not politically correct. i immediately apologize to all, uh, like all the people who are nice, nice continent of africa, and when we call these names of states, are they states or is it just a fight for votes at to the voting of the united nations organization, because when we start thinking about it, i sit and listen to other experts and understand that

it is, well, exactly, some kind of fail-states, all of them are simple. well, because they are not there, there is already a flag, maybe a national currency, but without a doubt, this is something tribalistic, that is, tribal, uh, it is closer to a tribal system, and it’s simple . maybe i’m wrong, maybe it’s some established states , it just seems to me that here from the east of the european continent, there’s no trouble there. well, if you have every six months coups if you have constant different friendships, then we are with france, then we are with russia, then we are with china , then we are with that, and some of them are for themselves, not for someone, not with someone, but to build our state on our own foundations, on our own principles, and we will

achieve this i have not heard anything like this anywhere, first of all, it is worth understanding that africa is not homogeneous, that is, there is real in it. as you pointed out, it is really the same thing as somalia, south sudan , now sudan , it is not known what will happen to it. the regions of this strip are divided about which you mentioned but at the same time there is botswana, there is namibia, south africa, there is tanzania, rwanda, kenya , that is, there are countries that demonstrate growth, which demonstrate better er development, to which of course there are questions about people's rights, not some of them, most of them are rather characterized by er as such, which so far have a transit transition to democracy, but they are developing to an extreme extent, in addition, african countries they are always among the ten countries with the fastest growing economy, also ethiopia, which was invited to brics a few days ago, it is among the countries in which the economy has always grown the fastest during the last ten years and even during the period of covid, but on the other hand, as you can see, when we talk about africa

, we must understand that it is still although 60 years have passed, it still has not given up colonialism, and africa is a scar on the conscience of the european community, because it is the honor of the conscience of those colonizers who actually exported resources from it, which gave the countries independence , but at the same time they did not create institutions they taught the political elite, they did not prepare the country for development on its own independent path, because from the announcement of the intention that ukraine would be granted independence to the fact of obtaining independence in some countries, it literally took less than a year, that is, it is impossible to form a good, good, good soil for the country in less than a year's time, one more question. i don't know if it will be the last or not, but we talked to the southern experts from the south african republic. we

found there, not me, but my colleagues. ukrainian-speaking experts and i asked them what about islam, islam is coming and i gave an example many, many tens of years ago, i was in semigal and about islam there well, so very much such an echo somewhere there somewhere on the pi now it is actually such an islamic country and islam goes from the mountain to the valley down there and he told me that this expert told me that it is a slaughter in the north of mozambique, there are already problems of islamization there, mrs. marta , and this is serious, that is, in another 30-40 years, it will be an islamic territory, an islamic continent, or as well as then what is it

will it bring anything forward in africa, islamization with certain islamic terrorists in the south, or are these gas-bearing provinces , so there is a purely religious nuance, but i don’t think it will be a failure. and there is the question of how the islamic state itself will expand, the same terrorist attacks, the same terrorist groups of the al-qaeda type, what will their activities be like, and will african countries be able to deal with them, because this is the same sahl where we started and in which such problems are big, not the last, not the last factor of these problems, uh, actually, they were terrorist activity and this is l-qaeda itself, this is the same as the islamic state and how much the civilian population suffers from this, and again it is worth understanding that will africa give itself a council that depends on what its direct development will be, that is, there are problems that cannot be solved externally with intervention , military bases can be opened , anti-terrorist companies can be conducted, the military can be trained , but while on the continent there is a large number of unemployed men of the young population, until the terrorist groups will have their own

, they will have someone to recruit to their loves the last question. maybe we can finish it now, but to be very brief, we know that there is more corruption in africa than in ukraine, it’s like that , i don’t know if it’s necessary to flaunt it, but you absolutely rightly pointed out i follow it, i read it there once a week once or twice the main thing is the african gross domestic product. they really are countries that are growing very rapidly. this raises the question for me. they are growing despite corruption . that is, corruption has not been abolished. it is there. and it is huge, but there is also economic growth. that is, this is such a unique african feature combines growth and corruption, what can you say actually in many african countries now in ukraine there is an eternal fight against corruption if you can say so, but it is rather a factor that

hinders them in their development eh most of the majority of african countries their growth actually directly depends on eh prices on raw materials from their transformations, and corruption here rather acts as a negative factor . that is, we also saw the same things, for example, when it was possible in the 70s and 80s, when there were raw materials to blow actually from agriculture on uh, and the corruption that prevailed in african countries at that time actually ate up all this income, that is, technically the country counted a lot, but in fact the population was poor, there were no roads, there were no schools, and so on , that is, if africa does not overcome its internal problems and the same corruption itself well, of course, i can’t talk about what kind of growth is good. thank you very much, marta oliynyk, a girl , an african researcher, was with us. thank you, mrs. marta, now from advertising, and then from africa in

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viewers vita yuki of the week that saturdays at 21:00 the independence of the country is held on their shoulders , real heroes defend our right to life and freedom around the clock we ukrainians never we do not encroach on other people's land, but we fight for our land until victory . the sbu destroys the enemy everywhere on land, in the air and at sea. independence is a component of the genetic code that

unites ukrainians. independence ukraine sbu we are approaching victory together once again good health and indeed we will work until 7 p.m. and we still have just the time to talk about georgia because 15 years ago the russian federation recognized the independence of abkhazia and the southern session and now in me valery chichalashvili is visiting, the former ambassador of ukraine to the ambassador of georgia in ukraine and in russia in moldova, and now we will talk with him , we will definitely talk right now. i would like to talk about such ordinary everyday things . hello, mr. ambassador. greetings. thank you for the invitation. look here. and what if you understand? if you understand. sorry for the tautology in abkhazia, at least i

have seen few photos and shots from south ossetia, and there are many from asia, and we see that this is just dying. just dying. watch uh, how do they look at home, they look the same as 15, 20, and 30 years ago, destroyed as a result of russian aggression, uh, there are no roads , nothing, not today, nothing. now, i'm just demonstrating this to our viewers, and obviously we see batumi let's say yes, which is already everything and will distinguish batumi from some posh turkish vacation spots that are simply impossible.

we understand the georgian people, and from the country, we covered what happened, in my opinion, they made a mistake, what kind of thoughts do they have , or not, thank you, thank you for the invitation, first of all, allow me to congratulate the professional holiday of ukrainian aviators, there is no aviation, and to express with confidence that the aviators of ukraine will make a significant contribution to the victory over the mountains, what about your question, mr. mykola, does it mean that the mood in the abkhaz society is now connected with the fact that the principles of eh are disturbing them. they get, so to speak, in the ukrainian theater of military operations

, it weakens along the entire perimeter, including in the south caucasus. after four days of war in the 20th year, this worries them because they really understand that there is no protection there, and they do not have to wait for support from russia . they went with a long ruble, it means to vote in ukraine , eh, and those guys who are returning. yes, they have completely different eyes . to look for some exits , and exits are offered by russia, which recently medved proposed to include abkhazia in the structure

of the russian federation, this is perfect enthusiasm, oleg, to our shame, the reaction of the so -called abkhaz soap was much болеже жесткой yes, this is a provocative statement by medvedev than the reaction of the georgian foreign minister, but i would characterize you in such a way that they somehow stand at some kind of crossroad, that 's fine. greater safety, well-being, and i will present them with some uh, development prospects, but from this point of view, the public is there, the experts are there . we implement different programs there along the lines of public diplomacy.

they will present a serious alternative program on seykaj when it is necessary and when abkhazia begins to waver, they were burned. unfortunately, i do not see these efforts. well, for our viewers, for the viewers, i will say that eh, on the other hand, abkhazia is still not south ossetia, they are so proud guys, even there, russia cannot allow itself to be completely controlled, they stick in there all the time and say, no , this is not suitable for us, that is, there are also those that are autonomous from russia and, uh, tough approach to georgia. well, here is the question. and if abkhazian according to your data, the society understands that the best option is to return to georgia, or is it already a war and a war that was forever, peace will never prevail there, and abkhazia, according to society, will never

go back to the part of the georgians of the georgian state. well, first of all, it is necessary to understand that such abkhazia today abkhazia is not only abkhazia abkhazia lives in abkhazia practically half of the population of today's abkhazia are ethnic georgians who will first of all be from the galsky district then there are many others nationally first of all there are a lot of armenians there, but actually the armenian diaspora also depends a lot on you, what abkhazia will see as its future , well, in order to understand where abkhazia should go. and here is the simple truth that for any ethnic group, the main three questions are safety, well-being , development prospects and a strong point of view. with these

, look for looters, murderers, rapists , who are leading in the russian federation wars on the perimeter of its border and now they will see this barbaric war with ukraine if it is not safe , the development prospects will be successful they will not be able to simply because russia in the form in which it exists today will cease to exist in the foreseeable future this will be some other formation, we do not yet know what it is and in what way its structure and essence are, but russia will preserve itself as it sees itself as an imperial country that wants to conquer the surrounding territories like this already, this state will not be able to be now in this picture where

they see themselves, this is the main thing we owe them . it is moving in the direction of the european union because only the european traditions of cooperation, political culture , including the culture of protection of ethnic minorities will be guaranteed to the obkhaz safety , well-being , and other guarantees. from whom they long for the region, they will not be able to get physical ones. abkhaz will not be georgia itself , but because it will be georgia, it will be put in front of obligations to preserve and implement the new european principles of cooperation and

these are additional guarantees valery see were there any mistakes in georgia in relation to kaphasia? we understand that there was russian influence there. we understand all these after the soviet wars and so on, but it still proves that they were afraid of something. they didn’t just throw themselves into the arms of the russians . there might be some reason, or is it purely russian provocation was all these wars oh, and they are not connected with the behavior there, let's say , of the georgian central leadership, but simply , this is russian exclusively, or the georgians also made mistakes, i am far from such a thought there are no 100% angels, no 100% devils, and each party bears its share of responsibility for what happened , including georgia, and it is necessary to understand

what georgia was like in 1992 and in 1992 on august 14, when the war started, shevarnadze returned to georgia only in march 1990 of the second year. georgia is still practically in charge of the military council. we do not have our own currency, we do not have our own passports, we do not have our own monetary credit system. varnazov did not possess the power of the country . yes, there were many mistakes and very serious missed opportunities. during the time of the first president of grams gudza, therefore, i am not at all inclined to say that

they blame only the abkhaz or eh side or the tamval region and the settlers who live there, but the fact is that of course, the russian factor, and this is the imperial policy, which is based on the principle of divide by your own, and by the way. this is manifested not only in georgia . i am treated like this, they are not an exception , of course, russia has done everything that depends on it in order for this conflict to flare up in a full body, including using and even pushing some georgian politicians to the fact that they made tragic mistakes in relations with abkhazia. that's why we need to rethink

the question, lord, the ambassador is such a general short question, i hope there will be a short answer, but it's a difficult question, who will win the next elections in georgia, what is the balance of forces about european, anti -european, what is there, in short, i can say that eh, we will mean to have an electoral system with a seven-percent barrier today, this five-percent barrier is confidently overcome only by the georgian dream united national movement on various issues of public opinion, the difference between these two political forces, including the financial administrative possibilities of the georgian dream, is about 10%. therefore, if the opposition political field is restructured in such a way that, together with the national movement

, the opposition will go to the elections with three more serious columns, three united columns, and these political forces will be able to overcome the five percent barrier, then there is an opportunity to defeat the georgian dream and, er, to form an irregularity thank you active thank you very much valery chichilashvili , the former ambassador of georgia to ukraine, russia , and moldova, which he promised at 7 p.m. from the russians in the winter about the death of three pilots in the zhytomyr region and what is happening in kherson now, the russians fired at the center of kherson, an injured 41-year-old woman was