[000:00:00;00] introduction for all viewers welcome to the studio iryna koval and it's early on the tv channel espresso news results of the week every saturday at 9:00 p.m. espresso we continue the broadcast of the saturday program polyclops with pity season former deputy of the state duma of the russian federation congratulations sir well let's start with the main one the russian event of this week, the plane crash. and i thought you would say about the main russian event, happy independence day of ukraine , thank you, thank you. well, i think it was mr. shoigu. i think it was revenge for what happened

in may, i have certain doubts that putin himself was actually involved in this, well, probably he knew about it, probably not, because here they already have such a criminal logic in the gang, and mr. shoigu was now a patient in which it was necessary to nobody took him seriously now. well, he wanted beautiful animals, and that's why i think he needed something like that, and these were rockets that were launched from the ground. they were anti-aircraft missiles. well, who else, if not his should have done it should have done it here you are now you see on the video, there are marks from the s300 from the missile, if you say what it is, then if it is

, we argue that yevgeny progozhin, for example, spoke against both of them, and putin’s role here is still a little in more detail, if you have any guesses, because look, now the russian mass media are trying to make it seem that the death of prigozhin was not beneficial to putin at all, because he publicly forgave him and he cannot be a traitor in the eyes of the russians. well, i think that in this case it is true putin lives in criminal logic, and for him, the value of his words for the russian elite is very important, because this is the last thing he has left there, and it is important for him that if he makes certain promises there, that they will be fulfilled, and if it were putin, i think well

my plane there, because it would simply disappear somewhere over there, er, somewhere over africa, er, maybe the engine would not work there, or there would be poison there , er , i was certain. and with a rocket, well , it's not very likely. should it be as well gerasimov should be involved for this. well, yes. maybe, but all the same, shaibud is a political figure, and gerasimov is not , and they just appointed a new person as the head of the pks. as long as the weekend remained there, it was impossible to do it, but in the hall, well, it’s easy, and it’s very likely that this was the price

of his appointment. and tell me in principle. how do you consider ot the current result i believe that putin has already lost the last lever of influence on the situation, that he is already sitting on this machine that is simply rushing to the abyss and he cannot do anything about it, and in my opinion that what happened is another illustration of what is already there people around him can do anything and that's for him. well, in fact, it's a danger , because the next steps will already be taken by brawlers and other people from his impeccable environment, but what he

's trying to do now, he's trying take a look. what? no, he controls everything. he knew it all. he was in charge there, and the more he denies his involvement until then , the more. well, the west could not be sure that it was kutsia who did not do it, that is, they say to the internal audience that no, it was not beneficial to him, it was not to his advantage, but for the western audience, they deny it, that there are various leaders who believe that putin did this, but i think i am wrong, the russian elites and ordinary people reacted citizens of the russian federation they don't understand what's happening and nothing depends on them, but it's lit uh-uh, well, again, this illustration

of instability is a new illustration that ah-ah, it's time to be curious, but i didn't understand when you and when is this to be done and tell me how you are considering this version with the involvement of the main intelligence department of the general staff of the armed forces of russia, and here he is talking about general vilyanov, who in general heads the department for the organization of murders and is involved in the assassination of the kolye mood and all these others in the attempt on heblev and all other such actions of russian intelligence. what exactly did he organize this story? i believe that prigozhin had so many different connections with the game and with the fsb that it was simply dangerous to entrust them with such a case, and again, that's why the rockets a-a because eh and

the probability that they threw them out there, they would not inform er, bring the beauty was very small, and that is why he was er , so careless, he understood 100% that he would be warned by anyone er, if he was on his way there i was not satisfied, and there i was looking for certain ways of de-escalating this situation it's just a conclusion, yes, i found out about it and uh, i would have written an article, he uh, he didn't expect this. how do you evaluate ksenia sobchak's words that kadyrov should prepare for the next one , because he already heads the only essentially uncontrolled army in russia? i believe that mr. kadyrov he is a real pupil of mr. surkov, the long-term head of the political sector of the kremlin, and that is why i believe that ramzan is quite cautious about this whole

situation, and he did not lick the dash. and he pushed prigozhin to do it. most risky tasks there, that is, he says a lot, but i do not think that anyone in the kremlin now feels a real danger from him there, so he is also unlikely to be threatened by anything now. and how much, in principle , if we are talking about elite conflicts. do you think that after this war, which group will be more serious from the point of view of the struggle for succession , the army, the chekists, the criminal world, who is now at the center of opportunities, i believe that in the end there will be an alliance between business, the so-called

systemic liberals, the government, and the security forces eh, and not the biggest dog and that they will compete with themselves for future influence and eh for control over eh situation, but now mainly most parts of the russian elites . she just expects, she also believes that the level of eh existing danger of them is less than the risk associated with the change. the volunteers made an offer to the wagnerites , so they went to belgorod. do you think that the wagnerites will agree to this proposal, and is it possible that they will once again make another attempt to take the kremlin? well, first of all, i believe that this

it is immoral to suggest that a war criminal and mercenary who fight exclusively for money join the ranks of the ukrainian army. there is, of course, a very small part of the people of bagnare who are there ideologically and you can communicate with them, and the legion of freedom of russia communicates with them, but this is not an exception rule and in any way makes a public statement and join us. well, how is it technically likely to start there, there will be, er , belarusian borders, then ukrainian border borders, no such things are done quietly, and i think that those who do such public statements, but they are just catching hype and not trying to actually do something, in your opinion, mr. ilya, in principle, can we talk about preserving the influence of wagner abroad, or is it possible that now the kremlin will

pay more attention to projects like this? like the so-called private district organization everything will be entrusted to the real structures of the fsb or the main intelligence of the headquarters or the external development service, since we can talk about the consolidation of resources and i believe that wagner will be completely and part of wagner which is now in belarus, it will be dissolved within the russian army and there, er, this work has already begun, the proposal has been made . well, we have already heard about what they tried to do when there was a meeting with putin, and there er, there was a certain positional rest from wagner, but he was beautiful, he was not interested in this, he stopped it. and the most interesting exercise is what will happen in africa, because there are real

resources there, huge money there, natural resources that they control and controlled and personally brought but there is certain there obligations er to all er african leaders and something needs to be done with them there pe er from those wagnerites there probably units can take control er game i believe that there will be a huge struggle tomorrow and we still don't know how it will end. and why is lukashenko keeping the wagners in belarus and putin was saying that he won't let them go because they are now expressing their desire to move, but some of them have moved those who were planning to go to

this plane crash and now it is already appearing lukashenka declared that yes, no, no, everyone else will stay here. well, first of all, there is a political interest here, and it is so complicated, because on the one hand , when the wagners of belarus, putin somehow feels that everything is under control, and he is less careful with lukashenka on the other hand, lukashenko has, let's say, a second leg, which can protect him there in the event of any disturbances or problems with the belarusian army, and he can use this. well, the main reason, i think that putin, from the very beginning, was trying to place them there in order to provoke against lithuania and poland, er, i don't think that the decision has been finally reached, but

er, there is such a plan that they can enter the dosuval corridor, er, to create a certain provocation there against the nato bloc. i believe that such a plan existed, i am talking about it i heard it a long time ago, back in the 18th year, but then they weren't ready for theirs. and now with wagner, they could do it, and now all these plans will obviously be destroyed . thank you ilya ponomarev is a russian oppositionist a former member of the state duma of the russian federation was in direct contact with us maxim, an intelligent independent expert, a doctor of political science in the republic of south africa . greetings , maxim greetings. good evening, so let's talk about the situation with african influences in russia.

of the armed forces of russia, the former game can take control of this situation how much do you believe in this, obviously the same news as you and it is obvious that uh , today there is some kind of systemic the job is to sort through all the assets of the adventure on e-e actually wagner e-e under the control most likely of the military most likely of the e-e military intelligence and general staff of the russian volume african assets e-e which actually are very profitable in contrast to ee proper those er functions performed by prigozhin and wagner in russia, activity abroad , in particular in africa, is very profitable and it is obvious that it is of er great interest to the matter, it is very symptomatic that this

elimination of consonants took place immediately after he er illuminated that is called showed himself that he is in africa and that he controls his units and actually his connections, his statuses in the central african republic are small , burkina faso is where the largest presence is. how do you assess the current russian targets that are located in africa, they can take part in the fight for niger, well, they were the first to announce the possibility of leading contingents of their military, let’s say, countries that are not friendly to wagner and to the aforementioned small and

poor people, ours is, first of all, nigeria -is stated that such military conduct is possible, and only then burkina faso and mali declared on their part that they will consider it as military actions and will introduce the same, that is , the situation is becoming more and more tense, and wagner will obviously, if he does, play back some kind of supporting role in all of this uh, but this whole history of western west africa is quite complex, quite intriguing, and today it seems to me that uh , the parties would rather refrain from conducting military operations than uh, enter into a direct conflict on the territory of nicker, but still, the situation in mali is destabilizing now due to the removal of yevhen prigozhin. and it is not clear what

will happen to the russian mercenaries in africa. well, i do not have such exclusive information, i rely on the news. so to speak, the hump of putin's regime and, well, there won't be a beauty, there will be someone else, who will be there, as if he should lead wagner, i think that he will also have good connections with the regimes and the small ones in the central african republic in in principle, this is one and the same office. well, i understand that no one can lead wagner in general , because president putin yesterday signed a decree according to which all people who participate in any military operations there must swear an oath to the russian federation, so that such and such should not be done you can't officially. well, of course, but we can see that a lot of private or semi-private

military military companies are being created in russia. that is, gazprom is creating its own there. we have repeatedly heard that in shoigu, there is some kind of er-e chvk appears. that is, it is not a problem to legally issue er-e russian mercenaries who went to africa in place of prigozhin, there may be such points . do you trust such a version, let's say, as the british publication daily mail writes, that prigozhin could have staged my death, as i did before, there were already such precedents, but i personally do not understand why but maybe you can name some benefits well, i, er, modeling this situation, i would er, consider such an option as the most likely, that it was not some kind of improvisation prigozhin because it would be impossible to do it yourself. perhaps if we consider different conspiracy versions

, it was agreed with putin from the very beginning that this is how prigozhin will disappear at some point, and well, there is, uh, there it is spreading. is, so to speak, a custodian or a guard, relatively speaking, of a community or there of money of shadowy, very influential people in the kremlin, and so in this, so to speak, shadowy status , it will be even easier for him to do it, transfer abroad, guard abroad and so on ie if this is a staging, then it was definitely agreed with putin and was definitely included in the package of agreements, actually, after which this action of the march to moscow was stopped.

in fact, he had to agree that all the people with whom he cooperated for ten years, who know about his level of security, with his accounts of everything in the world, who beat them all, and they also flew on the plane in the plane, they were told that they will be treated with you , there will be no double of him because you will kill everyone well, somehow, it also looks strange. this picture, well, the picture looks strange for normal people, but for the mafia. this is a completely normal situation when, so to speak , a cleaning is taking place. moreover, i have the feeling that prigozhin was simultaneously carrying out a few more functions eh. that is, all these eh meat assaults of bahmut, you understand , in which tens of thousands died, who were tens of thousands eh criminal criminals eh, that is, people who, in the event of the beginning of some kind of chaos in russia

, immediately become, so to speak, eh participants different bandit groups and everything else, i.e. those who died together with the accomplice , as already understood, after the events of two months ago including cleaning up the e-e for the e-e regime of objectionable and dangerous people let's move on to the next topic about italy, you don't have any questions on that topic, please, and i suggest talking about the bricks summit, after all , summarizing its main points. what do you think that invite the new six countries of ethiopia argentina, the egyptians, the uae and saudi arabia, after all, this means that something like nato is being built. well, what

would i pay attention to such a detail, that uh, there is a certain uh, difference in interpretation, but i read it as uh for example, the authorities of egypt and, for example , saudi arabia themselves explain this situation. of these applications, but on the side of the saudi one arabia and egypt we heard that they received an invitation and they are thinking about it and most likely they are inclined to accept this invitation , that is, expansion . it is a very complicated combination . that first of all we heard there about 40 countries that want to accept and that first of all they accept saudi arabia, the united arab emirates

and iran - this is very much a symptom of the serious influence of china itself because china recently became an intermediary and actually a guarantor of a certain easing of tension between iran and the suite gulf countries, that is, the fact that they are together in brics is, so to speak, part of some geopolitical strategy of china in this case, but well, not only, not only, this combination is obviously present in this expansion, if you generalize, of course, this union became attractive at a certain stage, and it is clear why it is an alternative, therefore, those integrations, those globalizations, which is carried out by the event on led

by america and the proposed rules they are not really perceived by these autocratic regimes in the global world under it, and in fact, in the statements in the final declaration, we very clearly saw what exactly these countries of the global south are not comfortable with, and they are not comfortable with them in the first place. the use of economic sanctions, that is, if you are reading this declaration , the strictest wordings relate specifically to economic sanctions, economic sanctions have been imposed on iran, uh, it has very serious reservations about this, china has certain, so to speak, precedents on uh, regarding the imposition sanctions on saudi arabia, and so on. that is, on the one hand, it looks like such a big geopolitical game, but very often

it is about some conjunctural and situational interests that coincided at this moment for many countries. and the main thing that they do not demand democracy, well, on the other hand , what is the practical sense, there is no common market in the brics, there are no different economic interests , and india wants to cooperate with the united states, china competes against russia , the introduction of sanctions, you said it yourself that is, here it is impossible to even agree on an economic strategy, as in the european union , of course, of course, it is still very far from nato and the european union and even to the regional associations that exist there in the south of africa and in the north of africa , and the brics are also very far actually existed and exists at the moment when the brics meetings are being held, because there are no executive structures of permanent structures and so on, but uh, very soon it will happen. as we know, uh

, the g20 summit is in india. by the way , -e in this big 20 there will meet on at that moment, well, these six countries are not officially accepted . but if we look at the composition of this group of twenty , then the west, that is , the united states and its european allies , australia, japan, and so on, and the brics countries will meet there. so to speak, this polarization is so far economic, it is already becoming obvious, so far declarative, that is, it is based on some common values ​​and

views of both the eu and nato. what is possible remove as pragmatic, democracy should not be demanded from us , we should not be threatened with economic sanctions, this is, so to speak , the core of those values ​​on which this community is united, so to speak. well, this is actually what china says all the time, because even its peaceful the plan for ukraine says that there should be no unilateral sanctions, that sanctions are the prerogative of the un security council, that is, china and russia , in fact, nothing new compared to the previous statements of the same china and we don't hear about his allies, but the new thing is that other countries that actually have economic interests, geopolitical interests that are actually different from china are joining this position

, that is, at this moment, their positions have converged and this is reflected in this expanded brics well, do you think that the chinese is the one-man leader of group a india or there are no people there? i think that china at the moment when he proposed something that could be supported by others, it worked, so to speak. but how only china will start promote some of their own interests, which will not correspond to the interests of other countries , for example, there is a big difference in hydrocarbon trade , that is, saudi arabia, the united arab emirates and iran are exporters of oil and gas, while india and china

are consumers, i.e. as soon as er some issues affect this area er it is clear that interests can be different and this applies to many other specific issues as soon as er brics policy comes out of general declarations do you have some explanation is logical for some reason, infin missed the business forum at the brics summit . no , i have no idea about this. i didn’t read any insider information. of other e-e leaders well, like in samarkand, yes, it was like that and he allowed himself to behave like that , especially since there were certain reasons for this, there