[000:00:00;00] these days, if you go to the transcarpathian region, you will see an absolutely amazing picture in the areas where the hungarian population lives , you will see billboards that, so to speak , commemorate the tragedy of the trianon, and in the areas where the ukrainian national lives, you will see the same billboards dedicated to the trianon , only it is written there that this is a triumph of historical justice and it is happening literally in one ukrainian region in the days of war and it is of course quite serious for me , i would say it worries me because i just imagine what will begin when the real you understand, not virtual, but real negotiations of ukraine regarding the accession to the european union, and i think that there may be tools that allowed us to find a common denominator, precisely in historical tools

, a dialogue of scientists, joint history textbooks that would remove all these layers of the past. political will and it is clear that history and various historical memories in itself can provoke some political conflicts, but usually these things recede into the background when politics changes, that is, it has begun the great war of russia against ukraine began, which became a threat not only for ukraine, the ordinary fishermen of poland are feeling it, and somehow the historical historical debates, at least for a while, took a back seat, not the same polish society demonstrated a level of solidarity, which means that it was impossible to dream about

the dominant role of politics in these historical discussions is not to remove responsibility from history there, but to agree on some things, well , it will simply be very difficult to agree when it happened there was a war on both sides, and each side considered itself to be right in this, at some points it is possible simply , ideally, so to speak, to press the pause, that is, it is not always possible, but it is worth it, it is also worth thinking about and talking about it, that is, the same polish-ukrainian relations under the time of the war of solidarity between the two countries. this may not be the best time to raise them and discuss them, because i actually recently saw

an interview of a very good polish historian who came from kyiv and tried to convince his opponent to accept certain certain the truth, that is, even our good friend, in fact, it is possible, that is, i did not specifically name it, and for me, it is an important moment for me, along with this, you know such a friend of ours, who , having such views, goes to ukraine , shows solidarity, here is such a strange situation, which in in principle, it could not be that a person with such a quarantine, together, i am a sincere friend of the country, what is its history, whose past, to put it mildly, worries him, the truth is what is strange, of course, here is just the moment about this, that

the discussion and these debates and disagreements are not being conducted uh, among the saints on the one hand, and the sinners on the other hand, it means that on the one hand we are what has been happening since 2014, this is the formation of the beginning of the 91st year, this is the angle of the formation of a virtually new ukrainian nation on new foundations and , unfortunately, the last few years, especially the last two give examples of self-devotion to heroism, which is probably difficult to find even in history, well, including even ukrainian history, we historians studied some four

days of ukrainian independence in kyiv. academy of sciences and so on we have today, we are on the eve of independence day celebrations. that is, we have how many 32 years, this is the 32nd anniversary , so if i am not mistaken, 32 years of the existence of the ukrainian independent state, 8:9 years of the liberation war, these things that mean not only changed society, but also changed our they also changed the future future of writing about history and this should become the basis for ukrainian unification, the history of ukrainian unification between 91-2014-2022-23, i.e. it is worth paying attention to this history through which we live bloody but also tragic and playful and uh descendants will

turn to this story to these years to these days to these things in order to find support for themselves psychological morally find find heroes understand understand also not not simple choices what people they did it not only heroism, i think that for us as historians this is all a difficult task, but we need to pay more attention to our last years and our last decades and try to build a new understanding of both the country and ourselves on the basis of this

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real time about the most current events through the prism of war in the author's projects on espresso vasyl zima's big broadcast my name is vasyl zima two hours of air time two hours of your time we will talk about the most important things for two hours to learn about the war serhiy zhoretska joins our broadcast military summaries of the day and what is the world like what in the world will we tell yuri fizer protested oleksandr marchenko for two hours in order to be aware of economic news. he tells us about the economy during the war and about new sports yevhen pastukhov is ready to talk about sports for two hours in the company of favorite presenters about culture during the war is ready to speak lina or other presenters that many have become like, maybe the weather will give us some optimism ms. natalka didenko is ready to tell us, as well as distinguished guests of the studio , we will have volodymyr hryshko today, if everything goes well, the events of the day will be

broadcast in two hours vasyl winter project for smart and caring people in the evening nayspresso hello this is freedom in the morning informational project radio svoboda top guests every day this is the shipping district of kherson turn on live we are somewhere in the vicinity of bakhmut we tell the main things by weekdays at 9:00 a.m. i just want to further clarify such a fundamental question as how does the historical responsibility of the state differ from the historical responsibility of the nation well , just for illustrative purposes when we talk about the responsibility of the title we impose this responsibility on the reich on the german state as such and we we know that there were states

, they were state institutions. they acted in different ways, but they had different relations with the reich, but in one way or another they were participants as state institutions in the same holocaust well, let's say that the croatian state of memory had one attitude to the holocaust, and the bulgarian state of tsar boris had a different attitude to the holocaust, but all this is possible precisely as the work of state institutions and as their dialogue, if at all it was then in a normal form and with its own society, well, in bulgaria there was a bulgarian demonstration against the deportation of bulgarian jews , it ended in success and people were saved, but if the people do not have statehood, if individual representatives of this people, let them participate in large numbers in these or other crimes. i don't even mean only the holocaust, i mean the volyn tragedy, etc., can we say that a people who do not have state institutions are just as responsible for this or that big crime

as a state institution as the state as such , because it seems to me that in our understanding and in the understanding of our neighbors , by the way, it is somehow equalized, and i do not know how correct it is, it is clear that especially in the context of the second world war, especially in the context of the holocaust, there are countries and states that conquer and control other peoples and other territories they impose a certain model of ideological behavior on them, and so on. and of course they find the level of collaborators and collaboration, but these are these captured territories, well, relatively speaking

, what is the responsibility of people in the same nazi concentration camp for the fact that they somehow participate in some things connected with crimes , i guess we are putting a lot of responsibility on this, a little more freedom in the conditions in the conditions of the occupation, but again, it is quite limited , but the responsibility is definitely here for me as well very important, for example, i will leave the second world war and the situation of the holocaust a little, but they are what i will talk about, they are related to the issue of today's russian aggression against ukraine. is it putin's war or is it russia's war, and it is clear that putin is very important figures this history, but it is also a product produced by russian society, as hitler was provoked by

something produced by german society, and this society creates this model of the state and this model of behavior and this model of behavior a society is created. so i think what does the limit mean to what extent is it some regime that occupied the country de-iore? is it de facto an important component, but there is responsibility, there is shared responsibility and shared responsibility, and especially when it comes to what you do with this experience of yours how negative am i, what criminal and so on. how do you feel about him? this is this. if we talk about the historical e-e component, this seems to me to be the most important component. well, then if you turn to the topic of russia, then we can also here to ask questions, which was very relevant in the first months of the war, now they don’t talk about him so much, but i

tried to think about him too, and now i think that it is not the responsibility of the russian people of russia , but the russians have a real state of their own, and indeed this state gave birth to vladimir putin in one way or another and this is not even a question of national origin, because in the russian leadership there are people of different national origins , serhii sheigu - that is, vinnytsia, let's say ethnic origin, alek, it is clear that all these people are served by russian chauvinism, whether another and his kind, but the peoples of russia who have quasi-states that graze do not protect their interests, where they do not study those national languages, where their national culture and their heritage are half-distorted, where everything is done to prove their inferiority and second-hundredness, that's how they are as the russians are responsible for this war , do you remember how at the beginning of the war , even russian propaganda tried to speak habitually

about the beets of the vitovynites, you accepted this and the facts led you. you see, the buryats were in our here villages in the kyiv region, they acted like beasts, and the chechens of kadyliv acted even more permissively, and it was as if from the russians, who in fact created this state and this army and this aggression, who need ukraine as their original land, the responsibility was transferred to small nations that, in principle, are very far away from all this, even from europe, but they became much more responsible and cruel than those who started this war and those who have their own interests in this war . if you want a state interest, of course this is a classic imperial imperial practice

you conquer the territory. then you use these territories, this population, to continue your realistic war, and then you can hide behind them . that is, this is this, this is not the first time, this is not the first time . that is, all these wild divisions and so on. it's not us it's the asians there where everyone in europe came and did something there and so on we here we have tchaikovsky we read we we love to give and so on and so on that is whether these things have already happened these things have already happened responsibility e- and these peoples as such, i do not have any specific form for what to say, but i have a very specific parallel that i think can help us think about what is our responsibility for what the soviet union

did in the same footsteps of europe in 39-40 what he did in europe after the 45th year, that is, in fact, in ukraine, there were no souvenirs in ukraine, yes, ukrainians are not up to your work, on the other hand. well, the ukrainian party elite was one of the most influential in the soviet union , that is, i researched kyiv, i researched the history of the caribbean crisis, because the key decisions about whether to shoot or not to shoot at an american plane over cuba were made by two generals . territorial. that is, it is a difficult question, but it is a very

real and important question for us too. i think today it would be better to answer the question about buryatia, that is , thinking about ours, about our role in the berdyansk empire and the berdyansk union. well, that's up to me that is of great importance, we talked at the beginning of our conversation about all these new russian textbooks, but the context is also important. if you want education in the imperial or non-imperial half , even soviet times . the shot monument of shevchenko during the shevchenko award ceremony that shevchenko was, in one way or another , a soldier of the russian empire who actually always ridiculed and lied to this empire and created his poetry such an image of that russian

the empire on which we were all brought up, which are an alternative to the image of the russian empire that russians know. i mean not even from history textbooks, because it seems to me that culture can act more strongly than history in the soviet union. the exclamation mark was used to say that the russian empire oppressed other peoples . at least until the 17th year, but students in the schools of soviet russia taught lermontov, taught pushkin about georgia, which blossomed with the patience of friendly bayonets, about the polish uprising, sports of the slavs among themselves, and the best russian poets wrote beautiful in words in beautiful works with landscapes i would say those countries that were conquered by the russian army, either in the caucasus or in poland or in ukraine, some of the best ukrainian landscapes were created by pushkin in the poem mazepa, which is essentially an imperial

myth about mazepa and such an answer is not the admiration of byron, and on the other hand, there were students of the pulleys of soviet ukraine , we learned all this in schools from moldavian to dauphin in all languages , everything is silent chereki saklya, everything is yours, i remember it from childhood, and this, i would say, could create anti-hiperan nations and also pavlo grabovsky and also ivan franko and also lesya ukrainka, all these poets were anti -imperial at the time of which they are russian, you can say contemporaries, the best of their russian participants praised the empire and you already know that it is a failure for a century without understanding well, you remembered the words of shevchenko about from a moldovan dauphines, well, they are not mentioned in the testament of alexander pushkin, and finad steppei kolomyk should consider him his national poet

his national poet yes yes yes that is, this is very this is very different narratives and they it seems that ukraine was present in particular and everything. one thing is that in the lessons of russian literature, the other is in the lessons of ukrainian literature, but the question is also that the children who studied it mean, well, there is a comparison of which ones are formed, which are formed by the teacher, and the understanding of what is read is also formed, and because of this, i would like to emphasize the importance of the importance of the troll of the teacher and the most important role of the interpreter throughout all these stories, because non-violence could happen, happened

in fact, of any texts, that is, the same shevchenko was appropriated by the soviets as a literary painting. after the end of the soviet union, tamara hondurova wrote a book about the frankish stones. that is, vovchitsa is a stonemason. shevchenko was only a serf in a fur coat that goes, well , specially dressed for photography, and this is the question of what we do with our heritage as we are trying to understand him and i do not join this conversation now with whom the states of america are already connected, where a big discussion is now unfolding regarding decommunization

of russian or russian-centric history of literature where, in fact, almost for the first time in the mainstream, that is, the main questions are questions about the imperial e and the key infection of the merits of russian literature, which was primarily recognized as the basis of french english literature, but somehow russian actually remained the subject of absolute adoration and idealization, and this now it is changing, it is changing because of the events in ukraine, specifically because of the ukrainian ukrainian resistance. so i would just like to say that these processes are not only relate to ukraine or the post-soviet space. and in general, the image of the post-soviet space, the russian space in the world , and the trigger for these discussions became exactly the opposite in ukraine, well, we can say that

ukrainians can be not only witnesses, but also participants in this rethinking of the russian imperial cultural narrative and the russian-imperial past, because it seems to me that we do not even fully account today in this role, in which this russian heritage played in the formation of even the current ukrainian perception of the world, this the situation that opened up thanks to the heroism of ukraine and the ukrainian army and the ukrainian people will not last forever if we want to influence it in any way we need to be included in these processes we need to speak we need to communicate sometimes it is very difficult that is, look at modern discussions on the ukrainian internet about good of russians , that is, communication with anyone is actually excluded, it is interpreted as a possible betrayal

, but what does this mean, it means the creation at this key moment of a ghetto where we remain our own our own truth and limit our ability to actually influence the change of broader narratives and ideas about ourselves and the world around us , once again this is a unique opportunity and somehow to waste which, from my point of view , was a crime, well, there is still a big question, to what extent the russian community itself even migration, even liberal, is ready for discussion if it does not put this community. i would also say cultural and historical preferences on a pedestal , because that is how people can speak out against putin. but they still have no doubts that russia is the center of this whole civilization, everyone who thinks otherwise is an enemy or someone who pretends for the sake of hype, to put it simply, i completely understand what you

are talking about. i know such people, but i also know other people who did not exist until 2022, who they appeared now and we need to talk to these people. i mean that it seems to me that the russian society itself, at least partially , should do its own work on mistakes , realize at least the weight of its own culture in the world context. it seems to me that this too the soviet influence, mr. sergey, because in the soviet union everyone was sincerely sure that they were aware of the role of their own culture and that they could compare it with world cultural values, and this is a complete lie because soviet culture existed in a certain isolation from the world cultural context and from the historical context and from the scientific context and only now can people have the opportunity to understand the real weight of their cultural and scientific heritage on the scales

of shared history with the world, and the majority does not want to do this, that is, it happens hiding behind the idea means a separate civilization, uniqueness, and so on. if we are a separate civilization, then of course, of course, anything that happens here is unique, it does not need any dialogue with the environment because it is different in different ways, and it is, it is, it is, it is very serious . a very serious problem, but changes have begun and we have the opportunity to either support the changes or isolate ourselves and not support it, which means abandoning it, they write it on