[000:00:00;00] on the air, because we are adding oleksandr kraev to our conversation, he is an expert of the council of foreign policy of the ukrainian prizma and mr. oleksandr. i congratulate you on the air, too. thank you for joining the marathon at such a late hour . i don't know. did you hear my conversation with mr. volodymyr dubovykom talked about public opinion in the united states of america regarding ukraine's support for the war against russia . what is your opinion about our diplomacy? how can the diplomatic corps additionally influence this public opinion, or should we focus our efforts specifically on the american governments? to also start talking with republicans, who sometimes republican politicians express enough well, so to speak, extravagant thoughts about this just now mr. volodymyr dubovik spoke about whether it should be done. perhaps you know what is being done

in this direction now. please , i apologize for the long question this time. thank you, mr. evening to you good evening to the audience regarding america, in fact, you do not belong to the camp of non-interviewists, because in fact, in the current situation , you have correctly noted that there are many politicians but i will say not only republicans and some democrats, let's say presidential candidate kennedy, who says that ukraine is a corrupt nazi regime that is trying to betray america and sell it to china, well, that is, from all sides of the party there are freaks and this must be perfectly understood, but the task of our diplomacy what is the task of our government leadership is very, very simple we need to continue to work openly and clearly with the communicators skillfully full stop we do not need to try to individually convince the republicans we do not need to convince the democrats separately because we have a rather painful history when we tried to influence individual parties in order to establish

normal relations, in fact we have now despite a certain drop in this support and a completely clear understanding by american society of who ukrainians are and what we are fighting for why this is important americans , let's continue to work for american society without dividing it into democrats and republicans, and in fact, this approach will be the most healthy in this situation. it will come next year or not next year we don't know how long the war will last unfortunately a representative of another political force is coming to power with whom the ukrainian diplomats have not communicated probably this will have a bad impact on the level of support and on the relations between our countries in general whether you agree or not well look here we have to start since in general, ambassadors behave in countries, especially large democracies, where elections are held, the ambassador must be present in every election camp, he must communicate with

each candidate, but only within the limits of what he is a diplomat of another specific country. he has to exchange ideas. he has to communicate. he has to do information work. he has to collect information himself, but there is no one to give priority to, because giving priority ends very badly. well, you remember derkach's tapes, you remember the case against biden, you remember you accuse manafort of allegedly trying to find support during the election for trump , that is, we will communicate with all of us , no one can accuse us of not being are present and what i see and hear from my contacts, ms. oksana makarova copes with this quite well, that is, conditionally, of course, we have not communicated with all of them yet, because i'm sorry, you already have republican candidates, well , hell, to put it mildly, but the primaries have just begun, we will make parties in contact and the most important thing here is a short remark like this, there are also braids in the congress and in both houses and in the senates in the house of representatives each of them consists of 50% democrats 50%

republicans and we are with them at meetings constantly, we as an expert environment, we them diplomatic environment, that is, no party will be able not to accuse us of being biased, and this is the most important thing, and that is why i am talking about the work of the statesman, not about the work of the party or separately with some politician, and let them accuse us of anything, we know that we are doing everything correctly, and from the point from the point of view of the state department, congress, pentagon, other services, and we have normal cooperation, mr. alexander, i don't know. do you expect that now we will talk a little bit about religion, but it is sometimes also, uh, international politics, uh, the pope has something to do with it francis reminded the russians of their greatness, according to the speech the head of the catholic church announced during the video of the bridge with the youth from st. petersburg, let's listen and discuss then you are the heirs of the great russia

, the great russia, the holy rulers of the great russia , peter the first, catherine ii of this empire , the great, enlightened, great culture and great humanity never give up this heritage you are the heirs of the great mother russia go ahead with it and thank you thank you for your way of being for your way of being russian in particular, i must note that the pope spoke during a conversation with the catholic youth of the russian federation, but the day before, the spokesman of the ministry of foreign affairs of ukraine, oleg nikolenko, counted on this address of the pope what our spokesman thinks about this, let's listen to it, it is very unfortunate that russian great power ideas, which actually are the cause of russia's chronic aggressiveness , consciously or unconsciously, even from the lips of the pope , whose mission, in our understanding, is precisely

to open the eyes of russian youth to the destructive course of the current russian leadership, but what should our diplomats do with all these statements , in particular, we will talk further with oleksandr, the regional expert of the ukrainian foreign policy council prizma p. oleksandr, what do you say about the statement of pope francis ? absolutely not understanding its contexts, do you understand the pope of rome, after all , he as the leader of the catholic church should be a priori the exponent of the spiritual component of the western world of what we call the western civilization and our regret in this aspect is what do we call western civilization because you will remember what you as journalists and we as analysts struggled with. all last year we constantly proved to western intellectuals or so-called intellectuals that russia is not dostoevsky, it is not tolstoy, it is not lermontov pushkin that russia -

this is this. i'm sorry. of course, the phrase is full of imperial sentiments , but as we can see from the pope , unfortunately, he does not have this context. he does not have a real, correct idea of ​​what russian civilization is, the so-called russian peace. and this to me personally, this tells about one thing, well, the russians succeeded, that is, the last 30 years of constant investment in the creation and these departments of linguistics in every western university, investment in the embassy, ​​in propaganda, in the information campaign in the orthodox church, let's not forget how many times even this particular pope met with the patriarch kirill that is, all this work that russia did, which we did not pay attention to in full scale, it bore its fruits and continues to bear it. by the way , the vatican tried to somehow justify this speech

to say that it was the personal opinion of the pope, that he did not mean it at all, well, they heard what they heard, we had a quote. and by the way, this quote is not only common in the russian federation , there are many catholics in the world, by the way, there are also many believers in ukraine catholics, what do you think in general? so, the broadcast of such opinions, were they personal, or do they really broadcast the opinion of the top of the catholic church outside the russian federation, will they really have an influence now or not, in this case , fortunately, it was a very separate appeal for a very let's separate the audience. that is, it was not an urbiat orbi or other public speech of the pope, it was not a message of the catholic church to its flock . it was a speech for a very limited circle of people , and , well, russian catholics. for us , from the point of view of the catechism, this is not the position of the church, this is not

the position of the holy see, this is really one of his speeches, very bad, very unnecessary , but only a separate speech, what should be done about it and should ukraine now convince the catholic leadership of the church in some way to influence and respond more actively to such events or should we still believe in the statements in the vatican that this is not some kind of system. and both the orthodox church of ukraine and the ukrainian greek-catholic church and their respective communities, because we observe that during a year and a half of full-scale war and during almost 10 years of russia's war against ukraine, they did a lot, that is, in fact, church diplomacy, we can use such a term, was very developed in ukraine, and it seems to me that this is precisely what should be our main direction

, that is, our church diplomacy, it is active. it is not very public, but it is developing , and it is she who must deliver these messages at the level of official diplomacy, you know we have written protocols, it is clear in diplomacy , we have to refute it, we have to give the correct version of events, we have to replicate it several times, and that is all, that is, not to react on the one hand. it is not possible. well, then we admit that this true, but it is also bad to react overtime, because then we also admit that it is true. therefore, so far we have a fairly well-established correct position, that is, the churchmen are doing their thing and doing it correctly, and our diplomacy has expressed its displeasure, stated its clear position, and for now, thank you very much, mr. oleksandr oleksandr kraev, an expert of the foreign policy council of the ukrainian prism, discussed with us urgent international issues. and by the way, we will face some of them later on our broadcast in less than

a minute. un independent international commission launched the third mission to investigate violations in ukraine, this is reported on the official website of the united nations , members of the commission visit several settlements in ukraine, in particular, uman, cherkasy region, and kyiv, the purpose of the mission is to establish facts for the investigation of alleged violations of human rights and international humanitarian law, as well as representatives of the un will meet with victims and witnesses of such violations about the role of the un commission in the investigation of crimes by the occupiers against ukrainians will talk with the executive director of the ukrainian of the helsinki union for human rights oleksandr pavlichenko p oleksandr greetings glory to ukraine greetings glory to the heroes good evening what do you personally as a human rights defender expect from the visit of this un commission uh first of all this is a fairly qualified professional team that uh is working on collecting evidence on all

possible violations as a result of military actions and the consequences of military actions both in the field of international human rights law and international humanitarian law and the previous work of this commission already this year, we will already remind the former judge of the european court of human rights person heads this commission, first of all, it shows objectivity, professionalism, not non-involvement, and in fact such a legal, er , provenance of the facts that they present, and these facts are then used through abstract references, through use in various procedures, or a-a when adopting some important decisions, in particular sanctioning decisions, etc., this just emphasizes the necessity, firstly, of the existence of such

an independent structure that is impartial, that is able to travel to cities and work directly with witnesses or victims relevant violation or through contacts with law enforcement agencies with everyone who can share information that can be used in these reports, e-e prepare such materials and this is relevant material that then works at the level of the united nations organization, i will remind you that ukraine also asks questions about e - the creation of a special tribunal for the prosecution of the crime of aggression, which should also be decided through the granting of a mandate , in particular through the organization of the united nations and, accordingly, interaction and cooperation with such institutes such as this commission, a special international commission for the investigation of these violations of human rights and crimes

committed in the course of this war, should actually create a basis for it to be set up to demand a vote or, well, let's say it works already with the organization of the united nations in particular and in order to promote the issue in addition to all others . will be present there by some percentage, two or three, maybe up to 5%. and rely on the fact that international structures will investigate these crimes and bring them to justice, well, it will be a little deceptive in this way, uh, there is a problem here, and when we talk about the application of international, let's say, judicial proceedings, we must

also take into account the nature of how uh, the consideration of cases is prepared, how much it continues, who is prosecuted, in what way , and uh, this is also problematic, that's why we say. to date, there is uh, one the international institution that prosecutes for such crimes is, accordingly, the international criminal court , which carries out a--first of all, several facts of investigations----- regarding crimes committed by russia in ukraine, and for one of them, well, in particular, it concerns the deportation of children--- a warrant was praised, finally, or rather two, even for two people who are accused of charging them with the commission of a specific war crime , namely the deportation of ukrainian children.

the step of the international structure is even unexpected for such a quick reaction and this is a very positive assessment. but at the same time, the question is about bringing to justice persons who are in a protected position , to date they actually do not react properly to this arrest warrant , it is meant they do not go to, let's say, contact with the investigation, they do not take part in court proceedings and until this situation in russia changes, until they force russia, either as a result of a defeat or as a result of sectional actions combination of a combination with diplomatic , economic and military actions in relation to this territory, which is still a state , it will look unrealistic, that

is , such work. th year and, together with other militants , bragged directly to the camera about how they torture ukrainian prisoners of war , this person is now in finland, but the question is, do you think there are any chances of ukrainian legal system to achieve the extradition of this person to ukraine so that we can try him for crimes against ukrainians, your opinion , there are chances, and the office of the prosecutor general is currently working on this, and accordingly , the procedures of this, let's say , the transfer of the expeditionary transfer of the person who she has not been tried yet, she has not been sentenced, but there is an indictment, er , let me remind you that the charge is the creation

of a terrorist organization, but there should be many more crimes, there is deliberate murder and the use of torture, in fact there are a number crimes, and hmm, there are reasons to believe, but this again depends on the finnish side, which must make a decision through court procedures on the extradition of the person actually accused of these crimes to ukraine, and there must be a clearly proven guarantee of impartiality and that this person will not be subjected to torture and that he will be safe, which is not surprising, because this is the reason for refusing such an extradition request. and i think that lawyers and everyone who will defend this person will cling to all the legal, let's say the following casuistic possibilities with the fact that you, firstly, delay this process, and secondly, make

the transfer, let's say, impossible, in some way to avoid this extradition to ukraine, let's just say, there are chances for this story to develop as well. well, i would say more, what can be extradited to ukraine finland has this person, but it's somewhere between 60-40%, 60 to 40, which is 40%, that the person can be left in finland, so there are chances here, but for this, it is necessary to work for this, the office of the prosecutor general must clearly prove everything so that this the person was mixed up in ukraine , we heard a lot and we will follow this story we will also communicate with you again oleksandr pavlichenko, the executive director of the ukrainian helsinki union for human rights, was in touch with us, we started talking about criminal crimes in the 14th year in donbas, and we are adding to our conversation pavlo losyansky, he is the director of the institute of strategic studies and security

has been researching what is happening in the occupied territories for many years pavlo i congratulate you glory to ukraine thank you for joining the marathon let's talk about what is currently happening in the occupied luhansk region on in the occupied donetsk region at the end of the summer, what is ahead, the militants have announced the so-called elections there, and the occupiers have announced the so-called elections there, what additional risks for the population arise in this connection, what should be done , i am waiting for information from you, please, first of all , the elections elections will start tomorrow in the temporarily occupied territories of ukraine , they will operate in the format of early elections, which the occupiers adopted this year with their laws, because they will not be held in the form of one member of the commission there or two of these pseudo formations, and behind them there will be four scouts, these are occupying units that will go around places of public

gathering. i think that tomorrow these photos and videos will appear on the network, that is, residents need to be careful about uh for uh, for seven days to go tomorrow they have allocated which cities will be eh yes eh in to take part in the taiwanese elections i.e. tomorrow they will force local people just passers-by in public places to tick a box to record it on video and send in general to andrei we have analyzed all the lists candidates in the temporarily occupied territories, and i want to tell you that there are 62% of citizens of the russian federation who have never lived in the temporarily occupied territories. and what does this show, why are the occupiers doing this? well , you actually understand, they are local residents , they leave the residents as service personnel , and there is the occupying government there will be them, then

there will be these deputies , the majority of citizens of the russian federation who have never lived in the occupied territory of the anti-vichy. the primaries, internal party elections of united russia, and there were people from the party of regions from the communist party of ukraine, our acquaintances with you, whom we remember when we were behind the democratic luhansk region, and they were already advising ukraine in pro-russian parties, so they were not even included in these lists, that is collaborators are not needed and now at 60% 62% , they will form these pseudo-soviets and so on. that is, the power will completely belong to the occupiers. yes, with the russian federation, that is, local collaborators will no longer rule there; in fact , they will leave the local population as

service personnel for these occupier pockets of the russian federation. therefore, you need to be very careful, because you cannot participate in the elections in our citizens . don't go anywhere, go out on this day because you forgot your passport or you don't have an id with you or something like that, and then you won't be able to participate in these pseudo elections pavlo wanted to ask another question changes in the so-called legislation of these so-called people's republics, we are talking about donetsk, about luhansk, now the heads of these entities will not be elected by the people, and even the so-called people's councils will not be able to elect them without putin's direct intervention, now putin has to submit three candidates and only from this from these three candidates, these new

leaders will be chosen by collaborators or occupiers who were brought there from the russian federation. people were photographed in the precincts there, then they threw them in and said that this gentleman was elected, even this one will no longer exist, there will be some new such super centralized system, why yes, why only because of putin, why only out of three candidates well, first of all, they are losing control there, they understand that the local population does not support them therefore, this one also confirms the things i said about, plus to what you said, it should be added that all the candidates for the so-called pseudo-elections are checked by polygraphy and we even threw it into the network as audio messages, yes which appeared in us at the disposal of the fsb checks all candidates, that is, they understand that they do not control anything there on the ground. that is why they are trying

to throw in people who are citizens of the russian federation , that is, they are afraid of losing control , political control over the temporarily occupied territories, that is, because thanks to the counteroffensive of the armed forces when we hear these joyful messages when they tell us that another settlement has been recaptured, the second, the third , the situation there is changing, that is, the mood is changing and the occupiers are afraid. yes, and that's why individual understands that thanks to the successful actions of the military officials of ukraine, the political situation in the occupied territories can change radically, that is why they are very powerfully strengthening control, and in relation to these, as you said , the helmsmen and gauleiters of the occupation, which now only putin can introduce, so they began to prepare for this in the year when the constitution was changed in general, in these changes, they demonstrate to those collaborators and those who once supported the russian spring of the 14th

year that it was a technology for capturing and occupying the territory because earlier even earlier about the so-called illegal armed formations such as the lpr dpr they were elected in simulated simulated but direct elections, i.e. the people were shown fooled that you choose yourself, now the russians are no longer in charge, the dictator appoints a gauleiter, i.e. a complete occupation and i agree , i can even joke, you know what the so-called people's republics are no longer people's at all , even according to their so-called legislation , thank you very much. it was pavlo lysyanskyi, the director of the institute of strategic research and security, who talked about the future of the so-called samples of full territories, i will repeat what mr. pavlo said. it is not worth taking part in this, if we listen to the occupied territories, we are moving on. on august 29, 2014, as ukrinform wrote, the losses of the ukrainian army in the east in the year were the largest

. the day before, our soldiers were under siege after the storming of ilovaisk and it was on august 29, 2014 that they began to leave through the green corridor announced by the russian army, and later they opened fire and shot both ukrainian columns that were leaving ilovaisk then and olena sugak's son about him before the anniversary of his disappearance, the woman told daryna kolomiets winter just 13-14 years old olena sugak shows one of the last photos of her son with grandchildren 9 and a half years ago in this photo ruslan 29 he is a fireman and a driver later a man in the 40- of the battalion, kryvbas will go to liberate slovyansk, you have two small children, you have the right, well, if you could take some time off, but he said well, mom, you understand all the time to hide i won't do it, firstly , secondly, when the children grow up, what will they

tell me in august on the 14th, elena's son says stormed the occupied ilovaisk, further communication with him was cut off from the media, the family learned that the ukrainian military had entered the city, later about the siege of ilovaisk by the russians in the morning of august 29, after putin's address, the militants organized a green corridor despite the agreement, as the chief of the general staff of the armed forces of ukraine viktor muzhenko told later around ten in the morning, the russian side the shooting of the humanitarian corridor began, according to the office of the general prosecutor, on this day 366 ukrainian soldiers were killed, 429 were wounded , about 300 were captured on august 31, deer they reported that ruslan disappeared without a stroller, and on september 2 she saw her son in the story of one of the russian tv channels, but it was visible on the video that he was sick because he was sitting with his arms outstretched, everyone was sitting on their knees, and he was sitting leaning on his hands several

times. who then managed to get into the rear of the enemy, i asked them to tell my mother that i am alive, tell my mother that i am alive, uh, this information was available until the 17th year, after the 17th year, i have no information at all, now we have nastunya i went to kindergarten. i say, you know how hard it is for you, let's do this with you so that dad knows how you will grow up. you will write every day . what happened to you now? ruslan's children are 12 and 14 years old. they did not see their father at the beginning of 2014. olena is now the office coordinator. the commissioner for missing persons in kryvyi rih says that nothing is currently known about her son august 14, 2017 the general prosecutor's office published the results of the investigation into the events in ilovaisk, according to the results, the main culprit of the ilovaisk tragedy is the russian military command among

at that time, the reasons were also called the low level of training and combat capability of the armed forces of ukraine and the mistakes