[000:00:00;00] was about himself in the world ukrainian wine e cinema e already has good always has a good chance to be noticed on the island that's why i just think that it is necessary to continue this foreign audience pbs fronline is an american documentary studio and osushitel press is an american company, that's why we're going yes, but i hope that in the category of the best international film, uh, ukrainian cinema will also be there, we'll usually see scandals on us around this is happening, but i want to ask both of you, you say that documentary films are not enough in ukrainian, do you think so? what do you think? now it is really necessary to shoot documentaries

, not feature films. and what to do with feature films? because there are a lot of opinions about the film buch, which is now in the post-production stage , and i am currently such a small scandal surrounding the series yuryk, it is called it, it is about mariupol, and residents of mariupol who survived the occupation say that the authors portrayed it wrongly and that they showed much more rosy their life under occupation, do you really think that now is not the time for a game movie , about a full-scale repetition, is it still possible to do it, watch a game movie and a documentary film, they are different mediums, and different topics require different mediums, something can be told, some stories can only be told some topics can be told with documentary, only literature has its own topics for feature films and i think that it is important , it is still important to do it, it is important, it is important

to do it ethically correctly, talking to the audience, etc. and so on, but this it is necessary to do precisely because mariupol and, in general , russia’s invasion of ukraine requires a constant informational presence from the ukrainian point of view. it exists, it will be filled, if it is not filled by ukrainian cinema, it will be filled by russian propaganda, no one wants this, you think the same, agree well, i think what you said were scandals. you should always unite and work on making a quality product and presenting it to the world. yes, there is a film

with a vengeance - this is a good example of how to unite around an idea to make ideas go despite e- don't get upset, don't make any uh-uh glass and clacks, but continue uh-uh, what do you do ? and here 's the business we've chosen. until now we continue it until now we continue to do it at one point and when you you can break this wall and break through it and show that it is all possible and ukrainians can make movies and can present what was reported on a large-scale invasion, that

's why it's really a movie that i'm watching. there are a lot of reviews if you look at the platform and like imdba, everything else. well, i think you've seen it. very positive reviews, high ratings, at the same time, the movie is difficult to watch, it all somehow comes together due to what it causes, such an emotion arises that it is difficult for people, but it is also interesting at the same time , because in fact there is not enough information. well not that information reaches people everywhere, but full-fledged information, information with the context of history , it is not enough, we see everything quickly , it is brought, especially the international audience who live with their lives, they have problems in their countries, and that is why such a great story like yours was told

at least for 90 minutes they grabbed them and they don't let them go. they are needed . right now is the right time for such stories. you just have the secret. well , the history of mariupol is unique. mariupol is a symbol both for ukrainians and for the international community. to the audience, it is a symbol of the true face of the russian invasion of ukraine. and it is a symbol of resistance, a symbol of will and hope , that is, it is the history of mariupol. it actually represents the history of this invasion that is still happening, and probably because of that, and also because there is hope in it despite all the pain we see

there is always hope, when you filmed this tape, did you expect it to be a film , because, after all, journalistic work is different from cinematographic work, now i hear a lot from cinematographers like that i think what the journalists said. now they went to documentary and they said that it is not very good for all of us, but what is the fundamental difference when you are journalists filming ? let's say so because there are very painful topics that need to be talked about right now and told directly without artistic attachments because especially if we talk about topics , we talk frankly about topics of potential

war crimes about murders which topics which stand acutely in the context of russian fake news propaganda, and for them the very style of presentation , such reportage, direct, artless, it is important so that additional questions do not arise, or maybe it was a production, maybe it was there, uh, not what actually happened, and so on, depending on topics about which we are talking about which i am a film about and you need to choose a style for this topic i want to ask you about the filming itself in what way well not that the peculiarity er we often also talk about

red lines there where to enter where not come in, what is ethical, what is unethical, i think that sometimes it is very individual, we have arguments, tell me what were the possible situations during the filming when you just put the camera there and did not shoot, or was there such a thing that you considered yevgeny in this situation, tell me, let's go we will start with you. so tell us roughly so that we can orientate ourselves, what you could not shoot, you know, so that we could not shoot, we wanted to shoot a lot, but when people are under great stress, they are aggressive , and they try, they see a journalist and they they pounce on you, not that there are forests on you, because you become a trigger , you are a person with a camera, and they start

to not pounce on the camera, but on you, and as a person, and just to release their energy for a while in order to start filming, it was necessary to talk to people, relax them, so that this energy went down, negative, and then, ah, take out the camera and start filming something, because it happened so often in these situations when people don't know what to do , they don't know what will be in a minute or so a second and they see their children who can't help anything and there's nothing to feed them, they don't have to give a glass of water and so on and that's all and here are people who just came to film something and it was sometimes difficult really we, but we were in the same conditions, but that is, there was no situation when

you thought that it was already a mistake to shoot or to shoot everything, then the editors together with you, when is it at all possible to talk to the editor, and you decide what can be published what too er let's say graphics less what is too difficult for the viewer but eh so what is interesting eh in general the media space and what international snakes have been publishing in the last year and a half has changed a lot more candid shots eh and people dying and killed tortured people and

there was no such thing before it seems to me that this is precisely because the number of a-a crimes of the military she simply crossed all er-er all all possible borders and er-e mass media began to show finally began to show everything and this is the first second eh when you edit the film in you all only 30 hours and that was not enough, we had 30 hours and you need to create a film of 90 minutes and at the same time show everything as it is and at the same time not push the viewer away with the amount of blood suffering because we are dumb, our psyche is dumb when it sees a lot of suffering and therefore not to sanitize as we say and at the same time to show everything as it is this balance it was difficult to find it but i think that we

found it correctly because the film won the audience prize for the nomination at other festivals, that means that we did our job you did the right thing that i remember i love your discussion cinematographers on the dovka, where is it, when was it shown? it seems that it was shown for the first time in ukraine. then it was difficult. you talked about it. i am already afraid to lie about something, but it seems that you talked about it when you were preparing it. you talked to your colleagues for the shiite press and they wanted everything to happen. how about you? they said manipulation, but not in a crude sense. and for it to be there without music, for you not to express any of your emotions in any way, this is a happy relationship. tell us what they wanted at the very beginning, what it means without documentary , without manipulation, and maybe you somehow forced them

reconsider your views a little, no one was against the music. but again, since russia tried many times to declare that these shootings were fake, one of the principle positions was not to add anything that wasn't there to documentaries, there are, er, modern documentaries are uh, it's also allowed, uh, the tool when the director works with foley, and that's what we call it, that is, it can amplify some sounds with the help of sounds that were not in the film, add an explosion, the sound of explosions, and so on. and all this is not in our film precisely because it is necessary was to specify so as it was me at all, what am i here for, the press is such a rule , no manipulations with the sound, no manipulations, uh, with the picture, and this and this

is actually very difficult, because when you collect a documentary film, when you make a story that needs to be told and also interesting yes, it is necessary to keep together uh, know that you cannot not present any elements or add anything, this is such uh , this is such a challenge, uh, it is not easy, but it seems to me that we did or were your colleagues against the very beginning that you are telling a story from myself and sufficiently personalized. that is, you are not the one who is not removed, er, no, i was against us , er, i did everything to prevent this from happening , and we recorded many people, we found many people with yevhen , we traveled with vasilisa, we found people who survived in mariupol, we yevhen photographed them photographed i filmed them. that is, we found people who are in the film who survived and

interviewed them. at first i thought that this is exactly how the film would look, but then we realized that we want the viewer to leave these 20 days and stay there. in those 20 days with we are closed in such a feeling of claustrophobia, we wanted to transfer the viewer into this feeling , so we decided not to go out, not to use these interviews, and then this perspective of the story appeared , the perspective of the journalist who tells, but still it is just a perspective that helps to connect the story, it is not the story of journalists yevhen appears in the frame sometimes i sometimes appear in the frame, but this story is not about us , and we have already filmed everything like that yes, well, we

just work like this so as not to offend anyone frame if you are working so as not to bump into each other , because sometimes it is disturbing the forest. so that we are there we try not to disturb each other yes, and we almost have the effect of presence like photographs and not being reflected in the mirror like that sometimes we stand there next to each other so as not to disturb the other and we say our movements forward there i ran forward there or is there a run back there that's why we are almost gone nowhere, even if he wanted to, it seems that it was a very important element, and i talked to people in the audience, which is really because it is considered so among documentarians that, well, at least among ours, it

is very much so. i won't be able to synchronistically write people there. it's not cool at all. but in your case, it turned out to be very cool and effective . one more factor right there. if it's true, there is a trend in documentary filmmaking, not only in ukrainian but also internationally. to be present in the film if you are not part of the story you are telling, it is called something else, we call it an extract of jonatalism, when you greet someone, you come somewhere, you film the story of people, and ah yevhen is from berdyansk, near mariupol , i am from kharkiv, we worked in mariupol for a very long time, there are so many of our friends , so much of us of this big family, this is also our history, that's why we could be a part of history, if it was somewhere in another country, it wouldn't be like that, but since

we are also part of this society , our history is the history of this society our e-e our e-e efforts e-e to record the history of our country this is also part of the history of this country there are discounts on essentiale forte capsules end-15% in podorozhnyk pharmacies bam and savings there are discounts on pectolvan 10% at podorozhnyk pharmacies you and savings every week saturday political club helps to understand processes that are happening in ukraine and the world vitaly portnikov host espresso and invitation experts based on facts give their assessment

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, politics and geopolitics, all this will be discussed by serhiy rudenko and the guests of his program, people who have information and shape public opinion, people who defend ukraine and create the future right now, the main and interesting thing in program verdict by serhiy rudenko from monday to friday at 20:00 repeat at 12:10 a-a and this is one of the most famous photos of a father sitting over the body of his dead son, these currents were filmed by yevgeny, tell me how to do it in general, because on the set i remember the film. i watched it in my mind somewhere a few months ago, it seems. at first you shoot it like this, and then you stand in the room where the father and son are. how is it? well, i don't even know. well, it's technically correct

to do it so that it is filmed and that everything is fine. as ethically as possible so as not to violate borders of this situation well, i think that it is provided, you know, you will learn, er, not that this is some kind of mechanics, but the feeling of um, when you can do it sometimes yes, so that you do not have additional aggression that is already there and that and what people feel that strong pain that we see in the photo and video is really not easy and she doesn't always succeed as it is and we think to ourselves that and it's luck and so on, but maybe such a situation and maybe serhiy uh really

because he also allowed us to do it because it's like we can't just log in like that space without permission, well, that's impossible, there are still two people yevhen takes a photo, i shoot a video, we are both present in the room and, uh, two cameras, not even one, two cameras, is it doctors and more, plus other patients, others, two friends , and this whose son was killed, they were also there, they were just being pulled out, and the door opened for a second, and serhiy saw it, and he ran in and stood there, and he

understood that everything was there. it drives as the trunk opens and from there they took out the bodies of ilya artem and then they brought back the next day three guys who , uh, whose cluster munition was it that exploded on the football field when they were playing? well, i understand that this was one of the most difficult moments when they were filming, or were you there, then everywhere it wasn't just everywhere there, you can say it's like that, but there is something . well , it's clear that a lot of things didn't make it into the 30 minutes. for some reason

, there was no such thing, there were things that just didn't happen were part of the story that we were telling, there were several other departments of doctors and hospitals, there was work with the red cross that we really wanted to show, but it was just that according to the plot , it just didn't work, well , it just didn't work out . i just can't log in because it doesn't work. there were moments when, well, we shoot, for example, the bodies of children who, er, the doctors couldn't save, but at this very moment, er, the viewer has already seen so much that well, it's simply not possible anymore

to show because it's distracting and distracts from the story. that's why it's a big job and in fact a good editor helps me here. i was helped by the pvs frontline editor michelle, the master, we edited everything together with her. and here's her perspective, she also helps to find the right moment . the film has one episode . well, in such rather narrow journalistic circles , they discussed the episode when you show the mass graves, when all these bodies are put together , and you ask the man who does it, what do you feel about us? this is a question in among journalists, it is very debatable, because some of them really like this question, because it is usually very possible to get an emotional answer to it, and maybe people feel some kind of involvement, because they are interested in their feelings

. never in your life to ask, and period, you think this is a good question, you can explain why it is appropriate and correct, first of all, you see that the film is not suspended, so it is without er a-a let's say yes without without judgments without any er such emotional, uh, uh, i don't try to convey my emotions to the audience, but uh, it's still an emotional film, and it seems to me that it's right to be interested in people's feelings, because we, as journalists, as documentarians, we run somewhere, shoot something, and uh, when we

we are not interested in anything more than just what happened, it is for people, well, it is unpleasant for me those who do not want to answer. in general, they do not answer , but i do not remember that anyone in my entire career of conflict journalism did not answer this question and from judea, was it iraq, syria, ukraine, nagorno-karabakh, everywhere people, especially those who are under stress, i can't say it's nice, but it's necessary to share. if they've already started talking on camera, then they need to share . the worst thing in such a situation is to know that everyone doesn't care, but i've been in such situations. so when you

are you under terrible stress or are you almost dead and when someone is interested in how you feel it supports you you know that people don't care and i just want to show people that i don't care by the way you are probably in the minority but your position is reasoned i think that i am myself now i put myself in the place of a person who is going through something like this, probably because i am a colleague. for example, my colleagues are the editor-in-chief of babel or yevhen spirin, he dealt with bodies in buch, he got a job in the morgue, and there he was asked this question and he wrote a whole post saying that well that this question cannot be asked, but it is a controversial thing , you know. i also liked how you said it incorrectly in your film. you are fighting against russian propaganda. and i feel that you