[000:00:00;00] and this one is in the south of ukraine, and how fortunate that we were able to defend kharkiv and odesa thanks to our volunteers and thanks to the politicians of the maidan wave, because in principle the possibility of losing a much larger part of the territory was absolutely obvious then and we did not lose more territory, then it happens, but yes fortunately, because the russians did not understand again the situation that developed after the message, but it is necessary to clearly realize that all this is the result of the fruitful activity of viktor fedorovych throughout his campaign for something, well, about 10-15% of our voters continued to vote as if nothing had happened . i keep reminding. and this means much more

than the current evening of high treason, which is unknown as to how it will end. and how did you come across that shufrych was allegedly taken? i believe that any accusations should be reinforced during the court process, i have no doubt that now there may be many accusations in the state council , what we saw, it does not lead to accusations because if we saw that shufrych, a huge number of uh-uh, there are some soviet symbols , yes, this is the impression that we came, you know, to some ukrainian super-patriot, and instead of seeing embroidered women there, they saw soviet uniforms. well, if i apologize, if the ostrich is written on the cage with the ostrich, then the ostrich is sitting there. well, you come to this cage you say god and right there it is ostrich right there it is written strauss that you come to shufrich, then he must have a collection of russian and soviet

artifacts, then i was very surprised by the story with this agreement uh bad weather with this document about the creation of the donetsk unification countries the luhansk region was surprised because its presence in shufrych's archives was presented as some kind of huge victory for the investigation. although we all read these proposals in the 14th or 15th year , journalists and deputies and activists spoke against these e-e proposals with a drawer of medvedchuk not before that that they contained elements of treason because they believed that their implementation would make it easier for russia and the military ideological occupation of ukraine that under the guise of these proposals to change the administrative and territorial structure of ukraine is happening . opponents did at that time, which includes

medvedchuk, medvedchuk even sued, he sued, well, the question arises. in order to preserve the territorial integrity of ukraine, etc., etc., that is, i am absolutely not sure that this is exactly this evidence, i admit that there may be others, i can generally see any politician from the pro-russian camp eh these or other eh acts that are behind the scenes of our being informed with you, but i would like that this data and this information were given here to the judges so that it was that this information was related to exactly what we do not know because

the most a dangerous e-e course of events will be that how will these cases simply fall apart during the judge's court proceedings or will they simply exist, and the people who will be involved in them will simply also exist, well, that is, it has already dragged on for years, all the known e-e instances there will work, so on and so on. yes, it will be this is such a struggle for who is more of a state traitor without any real court conclusions, something similar is happening right now in one of the cases that concerns kolomoisky, the privatbank case , the pre-trial investigation period has expired and one of the judges, you will say everything, we let one of the suspects go right, because it can also be dragging out such stories so that definitely the accusation of treason is an important accusation for me, and another thing

that is important is the mood of the people. shufrych was detained on charges of corruption in the state. the question is that he is a member of the people's deputy of ukraine. what is this party, which was, in fact, the pit of this block, the block, necessarily, the party of regions, and the party of the region, you in the region came out of all of them. these criminal clans, er, which had a special relationship with er, moscow were formed as a result. these are absolutely real things, but people voted for this party. we are not always a question, but we are sure that the same voters will not vote again, well, that is, they have already banned, well , they are creating some kind of party of peace and goodness. well, who knows what ukraine will look like after the war . to those people who say that this will never happen, i always point to, for example, let's say gruzdi , where there really isn't a single outright

pro-russian party, but there aren't any big ones either. the chances that the georgian dream party will lose its monopoly role in the georgian political process, despite the fact that it seems to me that everyone already understands that it does not really want the european integration of georgia, is in no hurry to join nato, or does it keep its slogans but does not take concrete steps, or could it be in post-war ukraine, well, this is a question of when the war will end, what will be the state of society , will it not be in a state of frustration, or will the main task of those who live here, who will remain here to live, the idea that there will never be another war, because in order to there will never be another war, this was the main slogan of the soviet era, so that there would be no more war. let them do what they want , as long as there was no war. what a difference, if only there was no war, and we, the people of our generation, were always very ironic about these thoughts of our

grandparents there grandfather, now i am beginning to understand it better, they were so scared that they survived the shelling, the bombing , the death of close relatives at young ages of 20-25, when they lost their husbands, when they lost their children, when they lost their parents, the german occupation then the responsibility of those who lived in the soviet union in the german company before the soviet authorities, and the hundreds of thousands of disabled people who were removed from their sight by the post-war famine, that they had one single idea that formed their philosophy of life to survive in peace, simply to survive , they absolutely did not care what politics, what is happening in general, how well they live compared to the people who live there in the west, in the west, how big or

small freedoms they have, they didn't care about all this because they carried this burden of people in themselves scorched by the real problems of war, war is higher than any freedoms, in fact for a person because during a war a person is simply busy surviving and he is afraid every day , especially when his loved ones are fighting, especially when he has to go to a bomb shelter with his children , for sure what it can be to him or them or it's her last day, and here is this person, the soviet people did not have such opportunities, she is coming to the elections for the first time, the post-war elections , and imagine that you are politicians, and i have one goal, one voice, they say about the development of ukraine.

nato about how we will have a wonderful life. you have already heard about the fight against corruption, which is very important. i think these are very important priorities for you . there will not be a great deal of probability of war if all this is a sober thought, but i will tell you the main thing, why. here is my priority, apparently in he of the president of ukraine and as deputies of the verkhovna rada yes well i am saying this i am a quote i am not talking about myself i am talking about such a politician about a populist my main wish is that there will be no more war ot how to do that what is important to me here nato european union corruption you can agreements with our neighbors, maybe we need to somehow come to an agreement with russia, i don't know, i don't know, i've finished this war in my head , the most important thing for me is that there should be no more wars , what we experienced with you is the most important thing for us, this is in peace, live in peace and that our children lived in peace, so that our great-grandchildren lived in peace. imagine after everything, after years of this war, how many people we have already lost, we will know the reality of the loss figures, how much of the economy we

have lost, how many opportunities we have lost . the main thing is that there should be no more war. how many percent of people does such a person get on post-war elections, but isn't this populism? and i ask once again. and who will the people who will go through the most difficult trials in their lives vote for? of course you are today. society lives under anesthesia. this anesthesia will start as soon as the operation is finished. it will be very painful and the main rank will be that it it didn't happen again, it seems to us that we will talk as a society about some complex bacteria. i am absolutely right, you are absolutely right about the fuses to ensure that there is no war , this is nato, this is the european integration of ukraine - this is a strong army, this is true, but to what extent people will perceive it is already difficult. that is, it is a difficult path, so it will be. and when we become members of nato in how many years

. and the european union. and if war starts again during this time . returned from the front, why should he go again? it will be very , very difficult. i think that we have to prepare for a post-war electoral shock of such a level that there has never been, uh , maybe never, so the danger is there, and i think that it is possible to get out of this situation you can go out we need to work as a society already now because when we lull it when we say oh, well, ukrainians are still childish with it, you need to understand, like with small children , that if you talk to the nation like a small , uh, infantile child, there will always be someone who can do it better than you , there is nothing difficult in talking to the nation as to an infantile child, and everyone

succeeds in it only once, because then a person appears with much brighter promises than those who have already been with i would say the lack of seriousness of one's own capabilities, sometimes such stories happen, personal stories that, with a wave, can even reverse the course and development of an entire country, is n't that the story of heorhiy gongadze? today we remember him 23 years after he was gone, myroslava gongadze by the way wrote a lengthy article about her memories of the last morning with him, and actually it is hard to disagree here, this is the story of one person who managed to somewhat, well, not somewhat, but radically influence the course of our development i just want to hope that even if we are all in some kind of state before the coma as

a society, i always think that if this tragedy did not happen or if we knew objectively the results of what happened what we still don't know, it's also very interesting that we've been living for how many years have passed and we can't answer the question who ordered the murder of georgy and if there were no kolchuk there would be no yanukovych and there would be no medvedchuk the story with the melnychenko tapes opened the way to some of to one of the most significant chances in

er, the weakening of the ukrainian state as such . i think that we can start the countdown to the dismantling of the ukrainian state from the history of the disappearance and murder of heorhiy avangadze. the choice of ukrainian society at the expense of the creation of a state vassal to the russian federation, so the truth is that at the time of the disappearance of leonid kuchma, he tried to maneuver between the west and russia , increasing to a lesser extent the effectiveness when there were the second presidential elections, kuchma already realized that focusing on russia would not give him the opportunity to gain a foothold in power and that russia is not so much his ally as the country that is interested in dismantling his own capabilities, i even say the state. i think that he looked at the state as a sure thing

of course, but when we found out about this story with ms. gongadze at the event, when did these tapes of melnychenko appear, which was made public by oleksandr moroz , whom we last saw in the ukrainian politicians before russia 's attack on ukraine, visiting oleksandr lukashenko, do you remember that? the strange story of one political career, from the leader of the communist majority in the verkhovna rada of ukraine, group 239, to the guest of the dictator who gave the territory of his country to attack our country. well, there was a lot in between other events, such as the betrayal of the orange coalition, which once again returned

yanukovych and everyone else to power. well, we won't be long. of public concern, he made these films public. so, i cannot clearly say now that we, as a result , as you say, changed the history of our country, of course , but for better or for worse, but obviously the destruction itself stopped. you understand, they made the ukrainian state much more vulnerable . they showed that she is not able to figure out her own crimes until now, well, again, we talk about it all the time, the killers of gongadze seem to be in prison, but so far it turns out that they cannot say that there are no such

tools to say that they say what actually happened is that they are more afraid of those who ordered the murder of gongadze than the ukrainian state, this is also a very interesting moment because if you understand what happened in reality, well, there must have been some real reason that led to the death of the journalists , the real reason is real, why did they want to destroy giorgia gongadze, and who then we could answer what happened to ukrainian political history in the 1990s and 2000s , you and i really do not know it

a question if he asked too sharp questions, there were many such people in ukrainian journalism, a hygienist died , there were attempts to kill podolska, but the question arises who did it, who was afraid of these too sharp questions, which specific person, which specific institution, with whom this person was connected , to what extent was it in in the interests of this person or institution and to what extent in the interests of the federal security service of the russian federation, which at that time could already carry out the orders of vladimir putin, i want to remind you again that all this was already started

happened when when already happened the real cleansing of russia itself began to happen , this must also be clearly understood. from flirting with ukraine from involving ukraine in some kind of political, energy and other schemes began to be implemented i would say more clearly for the moscow leadership lost the program to dismantle ukrainian statehood the first step towards this dismantling allowed the ukrainian political leadership to be completely compromised, of course it could have compensated itself by its actions with its own hands, it was not very democratic by the leadership, we understand it perfectly. but again the question arises who was the main beneficiary of the death of georgy gongats. to death who was

the main beneficiary of chain mail vladimir putin how did the presidency of leonid danilovich kuchma end with the fact that he exchanged prime minister viktor yushchenko for of the prime minister as a result of viktor yanukovych well, not immediately because of kinakh, he changed because he became an isolated person to the international community because he signed an agreement on a single economic space with russia, belarus, kazakhstan at the end of his presidency, and only the orange revolution, in principle, did not allow this agreement to be implemented life, what a mechanism began to spin up in 2000, a mechanism that, in principle , was supposed to lead to the liquidation of ukrainian statehood already in 2005, it's very simple kuchma is isolated subscribe that we him

we say we remove it, we don't create a parliamentary presidential republic here, we bring yanukovych to power and he dismantles everything, damn it, we have a union state of russia and belarus of ukraine no, well, that's already , well, there was already a document, there was already a document, it was already signed , now the question is whether it could all be without killing her. i think not. it was, as you know, the first shot of the signal gun, and after that the real race began, which was supposed to end with the liquidation of ukraine as a state. it was supposed to happen in 2004. the maidan in 2004. interrupted, then russia spent several years working on revenge, they corrupted the ukrainian elite with cheap gas

, they corrupted the ukrainian elite. the association he wants , they didn't understand what he wanted to sign , maybe he wanted to get money from the european union, it's not clear, but we were going to, but i'm not saying about the arrest of tymoshenko and lutsenko, i believe that if yanukovych had signed this agreement, it would have been such a disaster, a disaster , because he would have signed an agreement that allowed ukraine to maintain the status of a country with selective justice, but that is already the case. this is in the past and in in principle, 13-14 years interrupted this process. well, they interrupted it, but it led to a victory . the maidan ended with the annexation of crimea and the war in donbas. we see, we find, this story is not over. i think that only after

we clearly say that we have separated from russia , that this and the plan has collapsed, it has not yet collapsed, we are in the hottest phase of the transitional moment, it has not happened yet because we have not yet won perhaps after that we will be able to find out the truth about what happened in 2000. it is the same question as opening all the archives, because we know very well about the communist times, but we do not know anything at all about the moments of our recent history. people who were direct participants in the events, they gradually leave, many of them go to russia, people die for a few more years, well 5 7 8 and people who were directly at the head of the state

at that time will simply die physically. we will never know the truth, we will forever live in conspiracy theories such as, let's say, kennedy's speech in the united states, now some bodyguard of kennedy at the age of 85 or 90 wrote a memoir and said that he put the bullet. whole or the president or on the operating gurney of the governor of texas who was also wounded during this and all of this in the united states is being washed away and he, uh, how many years there for how long did it seem like such a well-known story in detail, but the child spoke and did not give any evidence nothing and this is also very strange, we don't even know you, is he telling the truth, he doesn't have any evidence, i'll tell you, i took the remote, but it's just important, but the main participants of the events are already in their graves. this is

just one of the few who remained and it turns out that the person who remains alive will be the last one to come up with a version of what mika that we all have to unite, well, this is also completely wrong. you know very well that the key participants in the state structures of that time were never interrogated, well, that is also a good question, and each of us has his own projection of what happened in his head. but again , i say, no matter what, we must perceive her death as the beginning of a major operation to destroy all those agreements that existed between russia and ukraine as a major operation to destroy ukrainian it is not surprising that the first victim of this is the first such soldier, if you will, of this heavenly hundred who then appeared there in 2000 in 2014. his role in this is not that he asked some sharp questions , the authorities did not like many people from my

colleagues then asked sharp questions and the authorities did not like many of these authorities had different questions. i remember very well how then they restricted the broadcasts, how they did not give the opportunity to express their opinion, all this was all this and we all went through it, although yes i believe that it is much more acutely done than many of us, this is an absolutely obvious thing, but the essence for me has always been in something else, you understand, in something completely different , so sometimes we just don’t notice it, just like, by the way, the murder of galina starovoitova in russia, the mysterious death of anatoly sabchak were also the beginning of absolutely of other events, it is not just a political murder, but the clearing of the territory from the last people who we had the authority to rule the new authoritarian

regime or a bone. that's all. well, okay, you can understand. it seems natural when the regime tries to eliminate those who can to master and if we talk about the russian federation and look at who is now minus prigozhin, the condition of kadyrov and the reason for this condition is not clear, and so on and so on. well, i think that the russian federation simply continues to develop in the direction of building a totalitarian state, i don't think that putin is not profitable kadyrov although many said that he could be the next victim of the totalitarian regime after the transition because he has his own autonomous armed forces, but there is no truth, kadyrov provides the children in that stability in chechnya bloody stability that has always been needed by the kremlin and the question always arises as to how much the kremlin can now find some other person who will be exactly such a guarantor of chechen stability, in general , the russian political

situation is not very stable, but the fact that russia's war against ukraine gave putin such extraordinary opportunities that he did not have for 22 years in a row that he can now build a totalitarian regime that he can reveal his own face that he hid there it turns out that he is both an anti-semite and a xenophobe and anyone else, and he has a best friend, who does he do, he doesn't hide any of this already, you know, like a person who used to walk on two legs in a tailcoat and now suddenly got on all fours. burned. you see, according to russian folk tales, they burned this frog skin so that it would come out. who is there? what was her name? elizaveta is beautiful, haven't i forgotten? to be honest, you

crooked duck what did it come out? some kind of terrible monster is beautiful and this one the skin of the head of a solid, stable state is burned, well, now everything can be complicated. what is it? it does not matter who will be the next victim of totalism, so there is no totalitarianism itself, which thinks every day about the murder of ukrainian women and children, this is really of great importance to i think that we can stop in our today's conversation and thank khrystyna yatskiv , let me remind you that we were from the politclub program , but this is a weekly program. and now we will have a weekly news release with which you will introduce iryna kovaliy, in this final issue we will talk about all the most important events of this week, including those events that we did not have time to cover in our today's program

in our dialogue, you know that now every week is quite important for the future of the ukrainian state and for victory in the war with russia please good evening congratulations in the next 30 minutes only about the most important events of this week, so do not miss the successful operations of our defenders in the crimea changed the course of the war civil society pressure on the government is working but what homework did president volodymyr zelenskyy do before the upcoming meeting with president biden about this and much more later in the release , the shelling of crimea will continue, our officials assure us, and the defense forces are proving with deed how ukrainians are destroying the myth of the greatness and seemingly invincibility of russia on land and at sea