[000:00:00;00] not in latvia estonia so here there is some precedent of people already or two just emu sleduyut thank you, we will say dalnyus, they hurt us , the chairman of the constitutional court of lithuania from the 14th to 19 years, me to the 20s, something i belittled him if the opportunities or his work he i was in touch with us. thank you all, now i just want to say something as a result of our conversation with the judge, what do you see in us , it seemed that russia's war against ukraine , russia's attack on ukraine, how many new problems are there to heal all these problems 45 -th year, it took tens of years tens of years to normalize, and if we take the unification of germany, it has been there for 40 years

, 50 years, and we see that the new war opens up so many legal, economic, and financial cults as problems in europe and in the world, that it is simply a horror, and when you know, they say that well, it will end war, everything will fall into place, first of all, nothing will fall into place, places will be all new, the world will function in a new way, everything will change, and this is a long-term desire, as i see it, when i always say and emphasize that i read a lot about russian so-called new not new and they are discussing good russians, they are really most of them firmly convinced that at the end of the war everything will be at the level of february 23, 22nd

year that will immediately appear there cheaper everything will become prices will change for the better the number of goods in stores and everything will change in fact nothing will change because that the world after the war, after any major war in europe, at least in europe, the world is changing fundamentally, it absolutely does not resemble the world that was before that, you must always understand that these are all new passports that we are talking about today they talked about new relations between countries, about new borders, or old borders with new rules, this will all remain for many years . i hope that the test is the state in which russia is now deteriorating and worsening and worsening and the consequences will be great and then even more and then even more and i hope the same if the situation in ukraine will improve not only after

the war during the war , but the improvement of the situation - this is obvious. to recognize the wagnerites means, well, a terrorist organization, it happened in britain on the territory of the kingdom, and we are in touch with serhii oleksiyev, a people's deputy, a lawyer , so we need to talk to him about this. it's time for us. i congratulate you . look. what is the purpose of this for the british? and it must be the opposite side of europe to them, something is happening there, well, there was such a strange

boris johnson who said no, it's not only yours, he is on this war of ours. apparently, he understands the second world war well, and in this case, why is it the british, why were you able to convince them, why did they made this decision uh, i'll tell you more uh well, it was also our initiative initiative ifinitiative it was a mutual initiative question this i consider one of the most important partners of ukraine uh in this situation in which she found herself and not even only the british shelves politicians and british people, of course, citizens, you will support very, very strongly, they are very concerned, they understand what this war is, it is a world danger, no one will change it, it is a world danger and the good experience of britain during the second world war, and thank god, now they are helping us. to that experience and cannot not react to it

, the european western society of the united states must react and we must have this victory as soon as possible, well, see what this recognition means. well, for example, i am i understand that it is obvious that if any member of this wagner group appears on the territory of britain, they can be arrested and some kind of trial may be held there. well, if there is some seriousness in britain, in britain, in africa. well, there are no more british policemen there. do you want to get some optimism , first of all i want to explain that there is a very big difference between the recognition of a criminal organization and a terrorist organization, a terrorist

organization is generally very powerful you know, the tool of a terrorist organization, because all international conventions on combating terrorism are activated at once. well, besides the fact that britain is one of the world leaders of the british crown , formally, you know, there is a whole series of countries, starting from canada and ending with new zealand, australia and all the countries where it spreads british law will apply to any cooperation with the so-called cfc, and this is the company itself - these are real terrorists, this is a real terrorist organization, and there will be any cooperation any communication, anything, will be equated to supporting the tariff and , moreover, all the assets of the so-called timely city company, that is, i will also be arrested, this is a very powerful tool, and thirdly, what is it for, what is it important for, britain

will become an example for many countries, because we know that british law is one of the most powerful in the world, and britain will become an example for many countries, and they will be. i believe that after this, a number of countries will also follow the example of britain, and recognizing vk wagner as a terrorist organization and now it is necessary to submit this question to the ukrainian parliament, because we recognized only a criminal organization, we also need to define it. and one more question means simply, among other things, technologically, if , for example, the ukrainians or the british saw , for example, in the city of toronto or ottawa and identified a person who was wagner, then they should extrude him let's say to britain it is much easier with canadian territory when canada- when there is recognition on the territory of britain that he is

a terrorist, he worked for a terrorist organization and please, canadian gentlemen do you give him to us or arrest him yourself, what is the procedure here? well, they will arrest him, and well, the procedure is according to who this person is. is it relevant, yes, or they themselves will judge or pre-dominate britain, british justice will convict him, that is , well, here it is there are many, many factors. well, the main thing is that it finally happened on september 6. the bengali parliament went ahead to point out that they do it very quickly and clearly. during the low-level meetings, this topic was raised, developed, and there are such

bob sili, he is a former intelligence officer, and now he is a member of the parliament, a member of the intelligence committee, rather than the development committee of the british parliament, and we talked with him. accordingly, i advised him, i am a member of the commission of the special commission that was created at the beginning of the war in the verkhovna rada on issues of humanitarian law . this is in connection with the full-scale invasion, and this is what we are dealing with. our commission is dealing with it. i told him about this commission and for the same is engaged in collecting collection of evidence into the facts of violation of international law regarding the war and i advised him to apply to our commission, helped prepare the appeal, he applied, our commission reacted to it, applied to law enforcement agencies, to lower law enforcement agencies, collected clear bases . therefore, they need a grid of information, open criminal cases, a specific number and criminal cases with a specific touch because

they say that we have to act according to the procedure we cannot just politically recognize, well , we need a number of legal facts, we them it was all provided, and provided, we collected everything, friend, our second business trip took place in april, we discussed all this again in april, provided them with information, and on september 6, the british parliament voted for it very, very quickly and very powerfully from their on the other hand, we thank them very much for that, but you surprised me a little, because i have not known bob robert since 91 or 90. i never thought that he was a spy because he introduced himself to me in some magazine time, well, less to see him if in london. broadcast in the living room from mykola from kyiv to i am convinced that he remembers him if he really worked a lot in ukraine before independence, during

independence and after independence, but one more question. look, when i didn't just mention boris johnson, he very often punched through this window, this qua-k apartment , this small one, and after him, after britain , many countries imitated the behavior of britain , even more, even the united states, at first , it was always britain, at least johnson was the prime minister. britain america oh well then we give such weapons and so on in jurisprudence in the legal sense we can say that after seeing this this is the decision of britain belgium netherlands france i don't know poland since poland has quite such peculiar and very warm relations with britain with london in warsaw, it can happen there, that is, what are your calculations, do you hope that it

will become a european norm, or at least in the south of europe, so that not all countries , but at least half of the countries, will adopt the same laws. we hope that britain will be an example , and after that there will be a whole parade to recognize the worth and erist organization, and we will move on, wagner, if we also know that it is officially financed or financed by the ministry of defense in russia federations, if there is evidence for this, yes, in the media more than once , even putin has stated how much money they spent on it, and you understand that all this has legal consequences, and we can then raise the question of recognition russia as a country

by terrorists because they directly financed the tactical organization here very er here we had to start yes and then we have a number of legal instruments how to run further for therefore, this is a very, very, very, very big victory , one more question , er, a terrorist state, it is obvious that you drink beer or ale with the same bob , it was discussed. is it possible in in principle, because we know that europeans and americans are also very afraid to somehow annoy the russian federation so much . and what you said is obvious to me. i am not a lawyer. it

opens the way, because if you prove that and you don't have to prove it, putin said it himself, we paid terrorists. and why? you paid because you are terrorists here a lot here you don't need a lot of walking here one or two walking and then it's all already obvious that what is the perspective in this direction politically politically as you rightly noted, it is very difficult to recognize russia there we let's take a step. first, britain has recognized it. we will move on. we will move on . we will move on to other countries of the european union and the united states of america. the people of ukraine, a lawyer, we talked about a lot of interesting things, it seems to me and now we

will talk about today's i would say anniversaries are not a holiday for sure myroslav marinovych projector of the ukrainian catholic university, member, founder of the human rights dissident of the ukrainian helsinki group, a political prisoner of the ussr, a philosopher, a religious scholar, a publicist. now we will all see him and say hello. good health, mr. myroslava . for your sake, you see , you hear us. the word anniversaries is especially in galicia, that is, primarily in galicia, because september 17 is the day when the red army, the russian army, entered galicia and actually started the uh. in this way, the second world war, well, what about

russians don't want to remember, think, uh, they can't even look in that direction. and there is mr. myroslav p. myroslav marinovych , vice-rector of the ukrainian catholic university , member, founder of the human rights protection ukrainian helsinki group, dissident, a political prisoner of the ussr, a philosopher, a regezologist and a publicist . i hope now, p. myroslava. glory to ukraine glory to the heroes so i want to talk about not so much about today not so much about september 17, 1939, when , how should i say, russia joined the opening of the second world war by capturing many different territories, including galicia. and my question is different . do you think that someday a real history , a normal history, will appear in russia? i understand that history is very subjective, a very imprecise science. yes, it is very humanitarian. but approximately everyone agrees

that the first on september 17, hitler attacked poland, on the 17th, stalin attacked poland , that is, there are some moments when there are no discussions , then there can be discussions who, where, how, in what number, but there are some russians who are absolutely recognized by the world, always others, just always another, will some such moment come, you still sat next to those who were on the naziratel, i think there were many russians among them , there were probably ukrainians and belarusians, but these people are capable of rethinking, changing their minds, seeing the truth, distinguishing black, black from white p myroslava no, not yet it is practically impossible because you have to undermine the whole russian and er history er. always er, when

russia describes the annexation of some territory , it describes it as a good response, as a good-hearted response to the request of the local population, this was also imitated by the people's at the meetings of the western goloch of galicia and western ukraine, after the occupation, the same logic is again that we go, we help, and i immediately remember a joke that was going around in galicia when such propaganda was posted . the joke sounded like this: we gave you a helping hand, and you yourself

will stretch your legs beautifully, therefore, therefore, russia is difficult . allow me to give another example on another topic. words about the holodomor because, again, we didn't just take bread from the peasants, we gave them industrial goods in return, that is, there is good everywhere, and that's why russians, in order to write history truthfully, need to start with great repentance . yes, i understand that, but myroslava, i would like that this is not an excuse, it is also ironic such a remark about ukrainian-russian relations

that in the 56th year, when they solemnly celebrated the 300th anniversary of the unification of the united ukrainian ssr, it was said reunification reunification that is, all the rest voluntarily joined the only thing it if two equals were equal, if the parties were reunited again, they were reunited again after some kind of break, some kind of fictional one, and so on , but it was me, my father, who was already an adult at the time, talked about this topic, and he said that it was us who gave us such a gift intelligentsia in the first place. you see. we do not consider you inferior, we are not older brothers. we are the same brothers, but on the other hand, you are right . and when i think about khabarovsk, for example, where there is a bribery monument in the middle of a man who exterminated

thousands of people in villages and towns in siberia, and about that no one does our khabarovsk is mentioned, my city is good, and here the monument stands and everything is beautiful. and perhaps remorse, because you know something in me, i understand. i myself, if you are some kind of history faculty in some a of good ukraine, kyivskyi and even graduate school later , but i understand after some time something will definitely change, but now i'm talking to my colleagues and friends over a beer, they say, well, it's been hundreds of years, it won't pass so quickly, despite the fact that psychologists say two generations, so 40-50 years. i even have a friend like this eagle poet he's russian, he's one of the few really good russians, he's also learning ukrainian, and when i tell him, well, in 50 years, we'll probably make up, he says, you're an idiot, september 100 , at least, that is, he himself understands, knowing the freedom

of his people, that no, not for 50. do you agree with this? no, i cannot agree in principle, not because i see a mass desire of russians to repent, and there is none. if there is any condemnation of putin, then there is condemnation for his dictatorship, for his tyranny, but not for his imperial schemes. few people are talks about the danger of the empire. that is why there is no such thing now, but to say that there is a nation on earth that will never go through repentance, i would have to conclude that god made a mistake in one case and created

some wrong nation, so i am such and such the position cannot become that's why the chance remains and whether it will be implemented depends on the russians and oh here are my next questions p myroslava specifically about the russians because when we talk about the germans we understand that they were occupied and it was simply imposed on them that's all joint parade in brest as far as i understand, they are now showing when the russians united with the german fascists and the russian fascists. here they are, having benevolently captured all of poland and western ukraine , western belarus, and they love each other very much.

here they go, here we see them all, here they are celebrating the victory and the conquest of poland , another one. and here is what i would like to ask mr. miroslav. i understand that they can really go for it, but when we say germans, then the germans have gone under the influence of this, when we say the chinese, after mauzen, they did not go as far as the cultural revolution, it is believed that up to 100 million were destroyed during the mausidun, it is not just there. well, there are 1.5 billion of them, but the largest contribution is considered to be sacrificial the contribution of the communists was made by the chinese, nothing has changed, that is, non-occupation is impossible, and occupation of russia is also impossible , the nuclear country is too big, so they are not taking 50-100 years, but 200-300 or so, because they themselves. i do not

believe that they will convert to this position that i'm ashamed. it seems to me that the answer to your question was given by individual russians who are currently active in the welfare sector, er, and er, one of them formulated a wonderful phrase that i really like in order to talk about russia in general in the future, russia must soften our pain . that is, everyone says about the fact that if there is any chance for the transformation of russia, then only after the complete collapse of this state, such a complete collapse that completely destroys this imperial syndrome of greatness uh-uh, we are a great country

, what a culture and so on and so on and then well, it will be necessary for us not to be able to implement what the occupation authorities in germany did for this table and ultimately for ordinary germans, which is to show them footage of liberated concentration camps for hours on end so that they could see the results today is a different time, today there are other means for the people to scroll through and for them to see in reality what is so great about the power of russia, yes i agree, but even among those good russians, i look, i read a lot about russia, i more- i understand ukraine less and in russia there is very little, but this phrase white coat is such a margolis, er, such a woman

who lives in italy, and these good russians are crazily criticizing. she is one of the very few, very thin line of these people who immediately honestly said that until there is no remorse, we are in everyone is to blame, without exception, there is no good gunpowder, we allowed putin in, we allowed the war, we did it all, we fed this elite in the end, and it gets paid morally, i hope, not physically, from a huge number of people who, as if a good russian, ran away from putin, criticize the beginning wars and everything is criticized here, that is, their minority is absolutely and those who soberly look at the minority from the minority yes , but i still want to remind you that we now call the german people as an example of how you can go through

remorse and become a normal, civilized state, but let's not forget that it happened not in 1946, not in 1947, but back in the 1950s, if not in the 1970s, that is , a certain time also passed there when the people had to think about it, but the only question you correctly noted is that it is impossible to occupy russia russia can only to disintegrate itself and occupy, no force, even a coalition of states, will have

such er ability to er organize an occupation regime for the whole of vast russia. i literally took a moment to explain how complex and long-term this process is, i recently just read the autobiography of an american general who, as was customary after the war, opened the gates of concentration camps with dead corpses and invited people with relatives without relatives to the houses of villages and towns. look, look, what germany has done, and there were corpses lying there, and he is passing two older german women, and one says to the other: listen, you know what hitler, the jews, were right and says what do you mean, is it possible to torture and force people to look at these corpses like this in our country - only

some sadists can do that, and hitler and hebli said that the british are also sadists so they were right, think about it, think about it yourself, attract people, but remember that without iryna koval, you will not succeed, because only she knows what is really happening in ukraine and the world, so that you can become enlightened , listen to the news on espresso. thank you, mykola. as always, you i wish you a good evening, i will tell you about everything in a moment , 20:00 in ukraine in the studio of iryna koval and for your attention, a news release on the espresso tv channel, the military has confirmed full control over the tick there, stabilization measures are ongoing, the head of the press service of the eastern