[000:00:00;00] in the 19th year. and after that, it seems six or nine. now, thank god, these processes are being restored, but they are being restored very slowly . why is this happening, because it is a huge network that was spied on by russian agents, but who was it financed by ukrainian oligarchs, by the same vadym novinsky? by the same firtash many others who now continue to work in the ukrainian parliament. i think that he nestor shufritsi contributed to this movement, visited all the churches and they very much and they continue to do it, and local deputies who very often took from for the majority, they either go to these churches or want support from these priests in the elections, so they are not ready. if there are more churches in his electoral district, then of course he plans to come to these priests for support in the next parliamentary elections, although i agree with you i do not understand how to conduct them during the war and i am convinced that this will not happen, but they think that they will. they often talk about elections and how

they will support someone if this is the basis of their electoral support. and they also donated funds to such people in there are many because we do not prohibit them only because the majority is placed on the agenda, and we do not accept not only the draft law where i am one of the co-authors together with other colleagues from different factions . he announces such and such a possibility of a ban, and he is also not successfully led, so it seems to me that the political party in power understands that without the support of the russian orthodox church it will be difficult for him to win the next elections part of them, you understand, but part is for the ban, and as i understand it, the security service of ukraine, which persecutes many traitors of ukraine in the ranks of this church, is also for the ban, that is, there is such a struggle going on in the government itself, and now those who are against such a ban are winning so far

that there are more of them in power, you already mentioned the elections and the possibility of elections, and president zelenskyi spoke about this two weeks ago in one of the interviews, he said that if there are elections in 2024 , he will continue his these two e-e processes ie the continuation of the war and the possibility of holding such elections, then he will run for office because he cannot abandon the state and of course he will run for the second time despite his promise of only one presidential term, judging by the statements made and the actions taken by zelensky, they are obviously preparing after all before the elections, because there is a big company about the fight against corruption and they are very actively pumping up the information field of this fight, this is the first and second zelenskyi said that the minimum wage will increase at the beginning

next year, that is, some steps that allow us to conclude that it is clear that zelenskyi is preparing for the elections, under what conditions these elections can be held for the parliament and the president. well, i do not know if zelenskyi is preparing for the elections . with experience, i am used to following the ratings every day. you are now on the air, and tomorrow or at the end of the week , together with the chief editor and the chief marketer of the tv channel, you will see what the ratings of your program were. choose on tv channels in the days when your program was broadcast, this is exactly how volodymyr zelenskyi told his whole life, and that is why he is constantly trying to do something so that his rating will not fall, but on an instinctive level, he does it not necessarily because he is convinced that there will be elections he just wants to always be popular and those people who came with him from this field are also this approach because a person who thinks politically or a strategist will say ok

today i will make some unpopular decisions or on the contrary i will not work there so i will not engage in populism, i will do something that is possible, i will be condemned now and my opinion will fall, but people will appreciate it after some time, and then during the elections itself, he will rise , a politician will think like this, and a person who is only learning politics or a team that is learning politics, and even more so if she came from the television spheres she thinks tactically today, for today, therefore , i do not have such a conviction that volodymyr zelenskyy wants to hold elections , at least because he he understands and even he once said it himself, how much money will have to be spent to put observers in the eye, he also had such a quote, which he said with irony and sarcasm, in fact it is emphasized that it is impossible to hold elections. and now i agree with him on this, because how can it be held elections when military personnel will not be able to vote and temporary accommodation persons abroad will not be able to vote and how to conduct

elections in a country that is at war, we must all be united. i don't like president zelenskyi in peacetime, the party, the people, that's why i them in the opposition, but i don't want to participate in the election campaign where i will talk about all their shortcomings from morning to night and weaken them, and they talk about mine, because in our country there will be a war in our country. and we must all be united when we are at war with the enemy. one more reason why elections should be held during the war in principle. well, it is impossible . at the same time, we are a democratic country and we need to prepare for this, and when the war will end, no one knows, but everyone hopes that the black swan will fly in, and as it was near kharkiv or under kherson, russian troops will suddenly retreat, disappear from our territory, they will weaken, and this can happen, so we must be prepared for this. i would like it to happen as soon as possible and we, as a democratic country, hold elections, because in democratic countries elections must be held, that's why we are not russia where they really take place, but

their results are immediately drawn on a piece of paper , but when it will be difficult to predict, because even after the end of hostilities , people must return home, everyone must be faithful it is necessary to register in order for the displaced to return, it is necessary to understand how they will vote, it is necessary to understand how the people in the liberated territories will vote, then one of these people is a hero. to the social and demographic changes that took place in the country due to the war, there are a lot of questions that have not yet been answered, so we are not ready for the elections yet. another question that is quite relevant for ukraine at the moment is the ban on the import of grain to european countries ukraine today filed a lawsuit against poland, slovakia and hungary at the wto , yulia svardenko first informed about this, the deputy prime minister, the minister of economy and

poland has already announced that it will block ukraine's accession to the the issue of grain will not be resolved, because of the minister of agriculture of poland, robert telus, according to you, the whole grain story will not quarrel us with our closest associates, neighbors, friends, people who helped us during the war and help us a lot during the war and this is a misunderstanding. what has arisen now , and how can it be resolved? well, first of all, i want to say that from my point of view , these are really our partners who have helped us a lot, continue to help, and our gratitude to them is boundless, but now they are behaving unfairly in relation to ukraine because we signed the agreement on the association and the economic part and we should have access to the markets of european products just as european products have access to

the ukrainian market and all this is written in the law and that is why the european commission did not change anything there, and the actions of these countries actually contradict the rules of the european union and weaken it, and it is bad, it is obvious that it is beneficial for russia, at the same time, the actions of ukraine do not always seem to me to be fully adequate either because it is necessary to understand very well that the actions of these countries are not really aimed at preventing us from being accepted into the european union , although the honor may also be aimed at this direction, but at least i think not, but that we are accepted with very serious restrictions on what is actually disadvantageous for us conditions and that's it for us such a serious challenge is extremely big and it was necessary to include all the forces of all the factions of all the deputies for parliamentary diplomacy that could influence this process and help our country get out of a difficult situation instead of the ukrainian government. as you

know, this limits limits in general the possibility of opposition parliamentarians to communicate with their colleagues and to go abroad for such negotiations is not always professional, and what we see is, on the one hand, a consequence of the not entirely correct behavior of our neighbors, and with other and not the expertise of our ukrainian authorities. thank you, mr. mykola, the time of our program is running to the end. it was mykola knyazhytskyi, people's deputy of ukraine, friends. we continue to work live on the espresso tv channel , as well as on youtube and facebook. please like this video if you watch it on youtube. or on facebook i say goodbye to you i wish you good health take care of yourself and your loved ones goodbye oh oh i sprained my back all seasons flamidez gel quickly reduces dust and treats pain

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on the knee pad it moves easily you can be active at any age feel the joy of movement without pain call and order the knee pad move easily for only uah 199 call the war is on and not only for the territories also the war for minds russia is throwing millions of naftodors to turn ukrainians into little russians ukraine will become russia analysis and analysis of information about ukraine by russian propagandists concrete facts and methods for with the help of which hostile propaganda turns people into obedient zombies ruyut progolosovat residents of the ldr let's counter the information attacks of the russians in the project of the chronicle of the information war with olga len tuesday thursday friday at 17:10 on espresso tv channel

vasyl winter's big broadcast two hours of airtime two hours of your time two hours to find out about the war and what the world is like 2 hours to keep abreast of economic news and new sports two hours in the company of favorite presenters presenters who have become familiar to many and also respected guests of the studio, events of the day in two hours, vasyl zima's big show in the evening, a project for smart and caring people, in the evening, i warmly welcome you, friends. this

program is a world view. my name is vasyl zima, and in the next hour of 40 -seven minutes, we will talk about the topic: what is still important, what still hurts despite all the transformations through ukrainian society, the ukrainian political elite, or the ukrainian pseudo-political elite, or the political pseudo-elite, if we could call the flowers , ukrainian business and all these moments that we had throughout history, despite all this, is a topic that we today it was taken into consideration , it remains important because the answers to the question, the key question of this topic, who ordered the journalist heorhiy gongadze? a direct conflict with the ukrainian pseudo political elite at that time

, so oligarchic clans, let's say the person who was kidnapped on september 17, well, it was exactly the day before yesterday, it was already 23 years ago, 2000 she disappeared, she was killed, the perpetrators of this crime were punished, but we still don't know the perpetrators . well, more about the circumstances of that day, september 17, to a greater extent, that evening of september 17, when the journalist georgiy gongadze was actually kidnapped on lesya ukrainka boulevard in kyiv, then there was his killed and thrown away in the tarashchan forest about the circumstances of that day and why we still do not know who said to kill him, i will only remind you that when major melnychenko made public the tapes from the office of the president of ukraine at the time , leonidas dana, leonidas kuchma, on these

the tapes sounded the words, well, kuchma, he said that he would expose him, take him away, obscene language , give the chechens, let them ask for a ransom, do you remember this key phrase ? well, then, of course, all the arrows went against kuchma, but everything is not so clear-cut in this story . today, we will talk with people who definitely know more and we are joining the conversation now roman shingle to the editor-in-chief of the editor-in-chief of the magazine liberation struggle roman i congratulate you good day well , also literally from minute to minute we will invite you to a conversation about our fellow the editor-in-chief of the den newspaper and the den newspaper in particular, the editor of the den publishing house worked for a long time together with the journalist ivan simon and published a book called the cauldron, and there is a large book about the case and all the circumstances of the case by georgy gongadze and roman. 23 years have passed these days since georgy gongadze disappeared. he was killed. i remember it very well , and at the same time, for some reason, you remember that day

, uh, september 17, when he disappeared, so he must be one of them on september 16, september 17. was obviously killed, and let's start from that day and from the events that preceded it, you definitely know more about this and you want to tell us about it, and we will listen willingly, please, well, actually, i may know such things that i do not know almost no one, because it so happened that i was in a party with george, and during the first red route , he fell in love with our girl from lviv , maryana, and it so happened that george decided to move permanently to ukraine, and for some reason, we agreed that i i will come to tbilisi with him and i will transport him. and i definitely came

but it was such an experience. it was a long process. god george was studying international relations at the time. he was a football player. he graduated from the university . - and here we always sang at his suggestion a-a sleep little cossack and play in the ukrainian language the drivers always came back and said it in the ukrainian language said so i'm ukrainian and so it's in the ukrainian language and it went on like this every night. this is now the footage that you show from the apartment of georgy gongadze. but i already did this with him. later, when i defended him in court, and in the 13th year , lesya gongad gave me the keys to his and their apartment from tbilisi. i went there for documents and had the honor to take these photos, so here we were actually saying goodbye to tbilisi, he was saying goodbye to tbilisi and when it was actually time to move ah, mrs. olesya says roman

but you know that we have tickets to tbilisi on a plane in they don't sell us tickets in the forest because all the tickets for the year are bought by those who sell cloves, they have mandarins in ukraine, and i say how about we go, let’s fly instead , she says, well, i got one ticket because she was the best children’s pediatrician, she says number one on the plane kved and hands it to me, i say mrs. lesya, how about er-e gia, because she insisted on calling him georgiya agia and not gongadze ak k kondze k for the letter i say and how is action and she says don’t worry about gayok well, i ’m going to get on the plane with this number one ticket my first place, uh, i keep coming back, george no, the plane seems to be filling up, the doors close and the plane departs outside the airport, the doors open again and there are maybe a hundred georgians crammed into the minibus, and it was simply impossible

to get a seat in the minibus at all. the plane stops somewhere outside the airport, all these georgians get out, the plane closes, then we approach the central corridor very nicely , we all get out and again giorgio is not there when they check george's passports waves his hand oh i'm here hello i say killer and where are you how did you drive or i didn't see you he says i - he just says i was the first to crash into the plane and jumped into the toilet and rode in the toilet the whole way well , i didn't stand well that's how we him we moved to lviv in lviv again or such a fun student life, i was then the head of the youth public organization memorial a-a introduced vertep, we twice took first place in georgia, we had the king of the nativity scene and his m-m then still a girl then wife maryana but this is not to be confused with this one now she lives in canada, er, it’s not that. another girl

, but er, well, life was so fun. well , then we made an introduction. i will now add larisa ivshina to the conversation and also ask her to make an introduction to the main events that we we will discuss the disappearance and, well, the kidnapping and murder of georgy gongadze, and then we will try to understand the main main question is the question why do we still not know the names of the perpetrators of this kidnapping and this murder, but after all , she is the editor-in-chief of the victory day newspaper, i congratulate you day in fact, mr. roman told his story of his acquaintance with georgy gongadze, his move to lviv is very emotional and interesting. an interesting story. moreover, i don’t know about it , i think that the audience didn’t know this story either. i want you to tell your story, georgy . gongazen let's say before that day and in your opinion what preceded the most important key moments that preceded that terrible day when 23 years ago when

george was abducted on i understand that it was lesya ukrainka boulevard, he accepted them there apartment and after that he was not seen alive again, please, this is a very dramatic story , one can say tragic for the family and for her , of course, for ukraine, it does not need free coverage, because it has long become a cross-cutting theme of everything that is happening in our country , maybe even and well, with all his actions, he would not have started this tragic chain of events, but the circumstances of the social , political, psychological, moral state of society came together like this, and that is why, in principle, many people know what happened, but cannot prove it to to finish this case, it needs political courage and less than its fate the hypocrisy of the society itself, it was absolutely

not incredibly difficult for me to look at the oaths of the presidents, starting with yushchenko, who promised to investigate the case, but neither yushchenko nor poroshenko. well, about zelensky, of course , we too we don't say, they weren't going to finish it because it's her business, and in fact it's not uplifting for them, although it would seem that there was something more important. vasylenko, deceased, who initiated a criminal case, and then it was possible even if he was brought before the court and it was at least proven that he was good, let there be an excess of executors, let him not want and so it happened, but the very fact of bringing a person to court would show that ukraine was on the way the structure of the rule of law, of course, this did not happen, but it must

be said responsibly and honestly that there are very few voices in ukrainian society, and in general, minimal in journalism. well, i think that on the channel on which we talk about this exactly this one understands because, by the way, about the history of acquaintances, serhiy worked on the channel that was the forerunner of espresso, and i was then the editor of information programs, and mykola knyazhytskyi and i came up with a special evening program for her, with the expectation that all the politicians are already asleep and no one does not watch, but it turned out that the gay made it a very watchable program and sharp and interesting. well, of course, then here is the whole channel, and this is an interview with him, well, before the course of what could have become the norm for ukrainian television, unfortunately, it did not become after the 94th

of the year the first blow comedy after 999 the second well and then everything until the state in which the ukrainian information space is now and this is closely related to the fact that ukrainian society cannot form priorities and seek to solve some urgent problems for ukrainian society and they move from stage to stage every year, an attack of truth-telling covers and then everything unfortunately returns to when the tracks of inertia used it, our competitors used it, the enemies of politicians hang on the lids of compromising materials well, some have already left life, but there is a lot left, and unfortunately, we have not solved the problem as a society so far, and i do not see ahead, but none of the politicians who would be able to put a fair solution to this matter, although

everything was publicly sounded in our country as well. as you know uh, one of the best journalists. i think ivanka bsamon, who recently was uh, at the front and was seriously wounded, is now being treated in the hospital, but still these days he reminded everyone from his hospital bed about this tragic event, because he is in the days was the journalist who visited all the courts meeting in the affairs of nations, but he was not awarded the gongadze prize. well, i think he would not have accepted it, understanding its very difficult origin, and here again. for which they seem to advocate, and that journalists are typically chosen relatively, well, those whose reputations can be infringed upon, and we speak

for the sake of what we cannot achieve and because we are like that because we behave like that because i value those singles with a reputation the hygienist got into this difficult situation, too, this is not an entirely obvious story, because ihor oleksandrovich, who was killed earlier , he was actually killed for his profession, which one is it in kramatorsk, you mean? yes, you are talking about the murder of journalist oleksandr - in kramatorsk, which was beaten with bats, as far as i remember, in slovyansk, slovyansk, so these are all the events that led to what is happening now in slovyansk. respond when there was an opportunity and then this is all missed due to the force of metastases already in the liver, so what is it called because now we see and

wonder who the guests are right here pinchuka only journalists and anna hopovsky said that after responding to kosivskyi's letter on the invitation to be a guest, she wrote him a letter why she cannot accept this invitation, and it was a moral challenge to all the others who seem to have some kind of grip on it , but not in this group, whom we consider to be such iconic figures of ukrainian society , absolutely as if they know nothing participate this continues the colossal company of bleaching and closing this case in front of my eyes. i know these people at that time, well, it 's not at that time, a little later, somewhere in 2003. of the parliament and which he gave then he was there er belonged to the commission that dealt with the affairs immediately that this committee of the verkhovna rada dealt with it at that time there were still meetings on the second floor of the parliament

v well, there, near the press box, and i with him talked, then talked with his assistant, and then there was such a narrative, you know, such a narrative that was voiced that kuchma was not involved in this. because if he had to , then he definitely would not have started with gongadze. yuriy lutsenko and there were quite hypocritical articles related to leonid, how much we published him there in this edition and in the prison robbie well, it's like what and what's the point of gongadze and what and then such was the dominant dominant story, which means simply kuchma blurted out on these tapes well how did he blurt out, he said that, i don't want to do that anyway second president, let him be i don't , i don't have the right to humiliate him in any way, but well , he said that give him back to the chechen , let them ask for a ransom where there was talk about konvengadze, what is this georgian there zadovvav

already well, remember these words are famous and that the russian special services allegedly used it in order to kill gongadze, thus creating a point of pressure on leonid kuchma, well, then there were these scandalous scandals and many other things , as if to take control of kuchma in this way and this topic was dominant. well, i don’t know for many people it was as if no one was to blame , it’s just that the russians used this story to beat gongadze and influence . he was not the main target, but i would like to p romanov. what do you think, why did this happen in the first place and how believable can it be? after all, this is not a story about russia, it is not about kuchma, this is a story about the murder of a man who is personified what was not necessary at that time for the ukrainian political elite is freedom of thought , freedom of speech and independent journalism , please actually this is your last statement it probably has the right to life because