[000:00:00;00] because, as we know, the beginning of the work of the general assembly is primarily publicity, it is primarily a diplomatic show, this issue remains relevant, but right now during this speech, i am not sure that we will be able to immediately put this issue to a vote, well, during his american president e- joe biden thought that it would be good, and you are one of the majority of the members of the security council. the media also reported on this the day before with a reference to the white house. that would be such a proposal from joe biden. but at the same time, they talked about that that supposedly the new representatives in the soviet security council will not have the right of veto in general, if schalke were to weigh the two options of excluding russia from the soviet security council and expanding the composition of the soviet security council , which of these options would be more acceptable and more effective for ukraine, the first and the second - it is not anti-annual options, this is a complementary option, in general, the question

of reforming the security council, it goes hand in hand with the question of both russia's membership and the question of russia's right of veto, because currently 15 projects of different options are registered in the secretariat during the formation of the un security council, one of them, by the way, was registered by the ukrainian delegation and one way or another. when we put forward the issue of security council reform , we must talk about the right of veto. we will start talking about its abuse. we will start talking about russia's membership it is impossible to separate these issues, and even more so, it is impossible to oppose ukraine, this is the logic of our position. we support any format , almost any except the russian or chinese format of reforming the un security council, but the question of reforming the un security council one way or another, i will raise the question of the conduct because the majority of states, well, in fact, all the adequate states of the world have seen that it is impossible under modern political conditions, it is impossible under the modern balance of forces to continue

the functioning of the security council and with the right of veto, this actually simply breaks the entire architecture and all the need for such a body. well, i would also like to draw your attention to other statements , and the high representative is jose borel, and he stated that the ministers of foreign affairs of the eu member states will meet in kyiv in the coming weeks, actually in new york, they held an informal meeting, they also talked about future security commitments to ukraine, why did they advance in this matter at all after the nato summit in vilnius, when did semyon confirm such intentions for the first time , because new countries are joining the coalition, which is ready to provide security guarantees to ukraine, but there are no specifics yet since there are no security guarantees themselves, first of all, let's start with the fact that in the final document of the vinnytsia summit, as in the declaration of the group of seven, there are no words of security guarantees, this is again our huge

problem. we translate everything incorrectly there there is an assurance that these countries are ready to provide, with a certain influence of time , under certain conditions, they are ready to provide ukraine with other security guarantees. because this is a document open to evolution and modification, which says that the countries that support its concept will be ready to give ukraine such security guarantees that they say from ukraine on a bilateral level . that is, each country accordingly comes to level of those guarantees for ukraine, we will not force everyone to sign one single document. we are working with each state on the package of agreements, the package of assurances, the package of guarantees that they are ready for and whether the matter is moving forward, definitely, we have negotiations, already specific negotiations on specific positions of these agreements with both the americans and the british, we are conducting negotiations with european states

in parallel, we are trying to attract more and more countries outside the group of seven to support this project, that is, it is going just right now the same boring not very media not very popular but very difficult diplomatic work when we have to write a separate document with each individual delegation, thank you very much for joining the broadcast oleksandr kraev , expert of the council of foreign policy, ukrainian prizma was in direct contact with us, thank you, pain can become an obstacle walking up the stairs not with my knees from knee pain try the dolgit cream, it relieves pain, reduces swelling and improves the mobility of the joints, you can also walk the only yellow cream for joint pain, damn stairs, my legs can't walk anymore, wait for my wife, what

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of the year what is actually happening on the front what are the losses of personnel and equipment on the field battle, how does the international community evaluate our successes and what moscow is lying about from the stream of news coming from all over the world, we single out the most important ones, your closely watching whether there will be weapons for ukraine and what and what the russian occupiers are whispering about behind the backs of the news commanders. the results of the week are a review of only important events the weight of reliable events is analytics, fact checking, professional comments about this , much more today in the case of important things in simple language, available to all viewers. welcome to the studio, iryna koval. and this is

the results of the week on the espresso tv channel, news the results of the week that saturdays at 9:00 p.m. i warmly welcome you, friends. this program is a world view. my name is vasyl zima. in the next 40-7 minutes, we will talk about the topic what is still important and still painful despite all the transformations that ukrainian society, the ukrainian political elite, or the ukrainian pseudo-political elitist political pseudo-elite what should i call the flowers ukrainian business elite passed and all these moments that we had in our history despite all this, the topic that we took up today remains important because the answers to

the question is the key question of this topic. who ordered the journalist heorhiy gongadze? we still don't have it. you know it's like the kennedy case for the united states of america. well, the same is true for ukraine . heorhiy gongadze is a ukrainian journalist. yes, the person who was abducted on september 17, well, it was exactly the day before yesterday, it was already 23 years ago, in 2000, he disappeared, he was killed , the perpetrators of this crime were punished, but we still don't know the customers. well, about the circumstances of that e day, september 17, to a greater extent, that evening of september 17, when journalist georgiy gongadze was actually kidnapped on lesya ukrainka boulevard in kyiv, then he was killed and thrown in the tarashchan forest about the circumstances of that day and why

we still don't know who said to kill him, i will only remind you that when major melnychenko made public the tapes from the office of the president of ukraine at the time, leonidas dana leonidovich kuchma, the words of kuchma, which he said that he would expose, take away, were heard on these tapes there is obscene language, give it to the chechens, let them ask for ransom, do you remember this key phrase? well, then, of course, all the arrows went against kuchma, but everything is not so clear-cut in this story. we will talk today with people who definitely know more, and we will now include in the conversation roman shingle of the main to the editor of the editor-in-chief of the magazine liberation struggle p romana i congratulate you good day well, and also literally from minute to minute we will invite you to talk about our schonik is the editor-in-chief of the newspaper den and precisely

the newspaper den editor of the publishing house of the day of his time worked for a long time together with journalists ivan simon and published a book called the cauldron, and there is a large book about the case and all the circumstances of the case of georgiy gongadze, mr. roman. i remember it well, however, for some reason, do you remember that day , september 17, when he disappeared, so he must have been killed on the night of september 16, september 17, and let's start from that day and those events that preceded you exactly do you know more about this and you want to tell us about it, and we will listen willingly, please, well, actually, i may know such things that almost no one knows , because it so happened that i was busy with george, and it was also the time of the first red ruth he fell in love with our

girl from lviv, maryana, and it so happened that george decided to move to ukraine forever, and for some reason we agreed that i would come to tbilisi for him and transport him. and i definitely came , but it was such a long experience the process was george then studied at the international in football player relations, he paid off from the university, they didn't want to let him go. we went to say goodbye to all his friends there, and every evening we returned to his home after drinking some red wine. it was 14 platona, tbilisi, and we always sang at his suggestion. sleep, little cossack, and play in ukrainian , the driver always came back and said it in ukrainian, said so .

later, when i defended him in court, and in the 13th year, lesya gongad gave me and lesya the keys to his apartment from tbilisi, i went there to collect documents and there i had the honor of taking these photos . i said goodbye to tbilisi and when it was actually time to move, ah, mrs. lesya says roman but you know that they don’t sell tickets for plane tickets to tbilisi in our forest, because all tickets for a year are bought by those who sell carnations and tangerines in ukraine i say and how are we going to fly or rather she she says, well, i got one ticket because she was the best pediatrician, she says number one on the plane, the ticket and hands it to me, i say mrs. lesya, how about uh-ah, because she insisted on calling him georgiya agia and not gongadze , i say a what's going on and she says don't worry about gayo well, i'm going with this number one ticket, get on the plane, get on my first

seat, and i keep coming back, george is not there, the plane seems to be filling up , the doors close and the plane arrives outside the airport, the doors open again and there maybe a hundred georgians are crammed into the minibus, and it was simply impossible to sit in the minibus at all. i turn around and come back. george is not there. we fly to lviv. but again, the plane stops somewhere outside the airport. all these georgians get out. the plane closes, then we approach the central airport. it's good, we all leave and again george is not there when they check the passports, george doesn't wave his hand oh, i'm here hello, i say george , where are you? did i not see you? i went to the toilet and rode in the toilet the whole way, but i didn’t stand. well, that’s how we moved to lviv, in lviv, again, or such a fun student life. i, as the head of

the youth public organization memorial , introduced the vertep, and we took first place twice. georgy was a tsar in our nativity scene and his m-m then there was a girl then his wife maryana, but this is not to be confused with the one who now lives in canada uh, this is not this another girl, but uh, well, life was so fun well, then we now made the introduction i now i will add larisa ivshina to the conversation and i will also ask her to make an introduction to the main event that we will discuss , namely the disappearance and, well, the kidnapping and murder of georgy gongadze, and then we will try to understand the main main question, the main question, we still do not know the names the customers of this abduction and this murder, but vseivshina, she is the editor-in-chief of the newspaper victory day to myself i wish you a good day well, actually, mr. roman told his story of his acquaintance with georgy

gongadze, his move to lviv, uh, very emotional, interesting, an interesting story. moreover, i don't know about it, for example. i think that the audience didn't know this story either. i want you to tell your story. here's your story. george gaz. let's say it was before that day and in your opinion. what preceded it, the most important, the key moments that preceded it. it was a terrible day when 23 years ago, when george was kidnapped on i understand that it was the boulevard of lesya ukrainka . tragic for the family and for her, of course, for ukraine, it does not need free coverage, because it has long become a cross-cutting theme of everything that is happening in our country . perhaps even, well, with all his actions , he would not have started this tragic chain of events, but the social circumstances so ignited

political, psychological, moral state of society, and that is why, in principle, many people know what happened, but cannot bring it to a conclusion, because it requires political courage and, to a lesser extent , the hypocrisy of society itself. absolutely not, it is incredibly difficult to look at the oaths of the presidents, starting with yushchenko, who promised to investigate the case, but neither yushchenko nor poroshenko . well, we are not talking about zelensky, of course, they did not intend to finish it because it was her business, but essentially their own it is not raised for them, although it would seem that something was more important. when i found a judge who was still alive during the presidency of kuchma, yuriy vasylenko , deceased, who initiated a criminal case, and then it was possible even if he was brought

before the court and it was at least proven that he well, let there be access to the executors, let him not want it and so it happened, but the very fact of bringing a person to court would show that ukraine was on the way to building a rule of law, of course this did not happen, but it must be said responsibly and honestly that there are very few voices in ukrainian society and in journalism at all minimum well, i think that on the channel on which we are talking about this, this is the one that understands because, by the way, about the history of dating, uh, a gay man worked on that channel that was the forerunner of espresso, and i was then the editor of information programs, and we mykola knyazhytskyi and they came up with a special evening program for her with the expectation that all the politicians are already asleep and no one is watching, but it turned out that the gay made it

a very watchable program and sharp and interesting. well, of course, then the whole channel is an interview with him, well, before flow of what could have become the norm for ukrainian television, unfortunately, it did not become so after 1994. the first strike was a comedy after 1999. the second , well, and so on, until the state in which the ukrainian information space is now. and this is closely related is due to why ukrainian society cannot form priorities, seek to solve some urgent problems for ukrainian society, and they move from stage to stage every year, the attack of er-e love of truth covers and then everything returns, unfortunately, to when the ruts of inertia were used by our competitors, the enemies of politics

hang on covers of classified documents well, some have already passed away, but a lot of them remain and unfortunately, we as a society have not coped with this problem until now, and i do not see ahead, but none of the politicians who would be capable of this you should give a fair solution to the case, although everything was publicly sounded in our country as well. as you know, he is one of the best journalists. i think ivanka bsamon, who was recently at the front and was seriously wounded, is now being treated in a hospital, but still in these days, he reminded everyone from his hospital bed about this tragic event, because he was the journalist who attended all the court hearings in the case of nations, but he was not awarded the gongadze prize. well, i think he would not have accepted it, understanding its very

difficult origin, and here again we are every time those journalists who received it were asked why they tortured you, this is an absolute devaluation of the values ​​for which they seem to stand, and that journalists are typically chosen in relation to those whose reputations can be violated, and we say for the sake of what we cannot achieve and that's why that we are like that because we behave like that because we value those lonely people with a reputation as hygienists, well, got into this difficult situation , too, this is not an entirely obvious story because ihor oleksandrovich, who was killed earlier, he was really killed for his profession , which one is it in kramatorsk, you mean? yes, you are talking about the murder of journalist oleksandr - it was in kramatorsk that he was beaten with bats , as far as i remember, in slavyansk

, slavyansk, so that's all the events and led to the fact that now there in slovyansk what is happening , these were such beacons, such lights, an alarm ahead that had to be responded to when there was an opportunity, and then this is all missed due to the force of metastases already in the liver, so what is it called because now we see and we wonder who the guests are. only pinchuka is here journalists and hanna hopko once said that after responding to vasylsky 's letter inviting him to be a guest, she wrote him a letter saying why she could not accept this invitation and it was a moral challenge in the family to others who seemed to have some regard for it , but not in this coma we consider such iconic figures of ukrainian society absolutely as if they do not know anything, they participate , this continues a colossal company of bleaching and closing this case in front of our eyes . these are the people i know at that time, well

, not at that time, a little later, somewhere in 2003 the fourth point was that i had the opportunity to communicate with oleksandr volk at that time, a person who was called the director of the parliament and who gave then he was there, he belonged to the commission that dealt with the affairs immediately that this committee of the verkhovna rada dealt with it, then these meetings were still held on the second floor of the parliament v well, there, near the press lodge, i talked with him, then i talked with his assistant, and then there was such a narrative, you know, that was voiced that kuchma was not involved in this. because if he had to, then for sure he didn't start with gongadze, there was a journalist of the publication which at that time i have already forgotten which one was yuriy lutsenko and there were such, well, rather hypocritical articles related to leonid kuchm, we published him there in this publication and in prison robbie well, it's like what and what's the point of gongadze and what and then such was the dominant dominant story

, what does it mean that kuchma blurted out on these tapes well , how blurted he said it, i don't want to do that anymore after all let the second president be i no no no in right there to humiliate in some way, but well said that give him to the chechen, let them ask for a ransom where there was talk of gongadze , that this georgian was there zadovbav already well, remember these words are famous and that the russian special services allegedly used it in order to kill gongadze, thus creating a point of pressure on leonid kuchma well, then there were these court scandals and a lot of other things , as if to take control of kuchma in this way and this topic was dominant. well, i don't know for many people it was like nobody was to blame, it's just that the russians used this story in order to to kill gongadze and to influence and what is it like a gonkada is just like such an adapter yes an adapter for the current but it was not he was not he was the main goal but i would like to roman what do you think why did this happen in the first place and how believable can it be or not?

after all, the story here is not about russia, not about kuchma, the story here is precisely about the murder of a person who , well, personified what was not needed at that time by the ukrainian political elite, this is freedom of thought, this is freedom of speech and independent journalism, please, actually, this is the last your statement it probably has the right to live because the fact is that the congressman was an absolutely uncompromising person , he had no shades of gray, he was either black or white, and the corrupt structure of the state, which kuchma actually built, and which the state's exposure stole entire industries of our industry and ranting between her close associates could not correlate with this uncompromisingness of the journalist heorhiy gongadze, that is exactly why kuz must have shouted that you quoted several times after this that it should be sold somewhere there

to the chechens because this system could not be correlated and could not be correlated with the uncompromisingness of the journalist gongadze and that is why it ended as it was and ended because they could not exist in parallel . i don't know, a lot of years have passed, a lot of people have probably already died who know it, uh, no, just like that, there are also many people who are still afloat, and oligarchs who are close to kuzma, the same his son-in-law , which well, rather, rather than everything was the same involvement in this murder, that is, it is very good and difficult. well, there is no doubt that it must be investigated. there is no doubt that ukraine wants to know the truth. undoubtedly, we want one thing, but how can our state give us what we want? there is a big question mark here, and this is the state leadership

it is not better at all, because we see the courts, the courts are exactly as they were in practice, they seem to be reforming them. but again, i want to go back a little to the 13th year, when i accidentally met lesya gongadze near the pecherskyi court. and where is she i just sat on the road crying. i come up and tell ms. lesa what happened, go, child, because you will also be killed. i say ms. lesa , no, let's make a deal, you were drinking. it turns out that for 6 years i was carrying the idea of ​​suing the then deputy minister of internal affairs, jiva mykola, who lied to giorgii, he is a liar, a thief, that giorgii gongadze somehow stole cars in georgia, and he told it on television, and the press published it, and lesya, as they say

, tried to file six or six charges against him in five years the court did not accept lesya, then in the end the envelope was somehow overcome by the court, but the court did not convene a meeting. and actually when he met lesya gongadze at the podpechers court , it turns out that the meeting was called somewhere, but the lawyer who was lesya or lesya was given a lawyer, well, let's say that he betrayed olesya i changed her statement of claim and it seems that the case is being filed, not against it, but against the publications that printed it, and lesya was sitting on the envelope crying, saying that there is no truth, she won't achieve anything. i still convinced her that we would do it i found an excellent lawyer for oleg the king, unfortunately he is already dead, he got into a substitute, he allowed children in buche , and here we are with oleg the king in four sessions already without lesya gongadze, because we told her not to go here at home. four sessions, i, as the head of the public organization, moryal, and he, as a new lawyer, won this case in four sessions, and who

do you think we won it in court, vovka serhiy vovka, so on june 17, 2013, we received a court decision that i'm george gongad - this is actually this court decision is e honest and what, actually, mykola dzhiga should pay 1 hryvnia to lesya gongadze in compensation and publish in these publications in which he published lies, publish the truth, well, of course, dzhigav did not publish this truth. on the maidan and about a week before the death of lesya gongadze, as we know, she died on the night when there was the biggest massacre on the maidan. i gave her this decision

and she cried a lot. now i can die peacefully, because my son’s honor is unfortunately, but unfortunately, she never learned the most important thing after dying about and about the customer and did not see the punishment, we will talk about this again, about this key moment, now there is literally a short pause, i am asking you stay in touch with us, we will return in a few minutes and go to the essence of our today's topic, well, actually, about the customers and why the gongadze case still remains. as they say, a crime without punishment, the damned stairs can't walk anymore, wait, there's no health. there is the health of our top ten, i thought so until i tried gerovital gerovital plus, a world-wide vitamin complex that takes care of the heart and strengthens the body gerovital plus, good health, active life, a new product , gerovital energy, even more iron for good deeds , gerovital energy, taken once a day, don't miss the new season champions league on

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