[000:00:00;00] all of my son is unfortunately but unfortunately she never learned the most important thing he died about and about the customer he did not see the punishment we will talk about this again about this key moment now the pause literally did not last long i ask you very much to stay in touch with us we in a few minutes we will return to the essence of our today's topic, well, actually, about the customers and why the gongadze case is still pending. as they say, a crime without punishment, the bastards can't walk anymore. wait, i'm not healthy . what kind of health is there for us ten? yes thought until i tried herovital herovital plus phytovenous tamin complex that cares for the heart and strengthens the body herovital plus good health active life novelty herovital energy even more iron for good deeds herovital energy dose once a day don't miss the second season of the champions league on

megogo cheer for shakhtar against porto and watch the bayern-manchester united super match on september 19 and 20 exclusively on megogo, there are 10% discounts on kvadevit in podorozhnyk bam and oschad pharmacies, ukrainians romanticize freedom, this is how it happened in our tradition volya freedom is like air, something that you can't touch, but without it you can't breathe, and on the one hand, it's really like the classics, because it's not a zloty, comparing all the gold against freedom, it's just a swamp, but only

now, when they try to conquer us again metaphorically and literally when they try to seize or destroy only now has the understanding come freedom has a price and its excessive juice must be paid for and we pay mykola veresen vitaly portnikov and the main topics of the week is if it will be

used against ukraine god forbid really tactical nuclear weapons will definitely change the world. stories, problems, analysis and personalities . john gerbs is the former ambassador to the united states in ukraine . freedom of the morning information project of the radio freedom is the guests every day this is the shipping district of kherson inclusion live somewhere in the vicinity of bakhmut we tell the main thing on weekdays at 9:00 the war in ukraine is the main topic

for ukrainians victories and losses analysis and forecasts, politics and geopolitics, serhii rudenko and the guests of his program will talk about all this, people who have information and shape public opinion, people who defend ukraine and create the future, the main and interesting thing in the program is the verdict of serhiy rudenko from monday to friday at 20:00, repeat at 12:10 p.m. we return to the conversation and our topic today is crimes without punishment, why have the masterminds of the murder of journalist heorhiy gongadze not been punished yet? the key question is with us roman gunda gumi editor of the time simply liberation struggle now her cord to the editor-in-chief of the newspaper day well, in fact, the book about which larisa talked

about the boiler is a matter of fact without a statute of limitations and i have it by the way this book is a gift from the publishing house very nice day i'm reading it, studying these documents. i want to now. well, we had it literally 20 minutes ago. i want us to do it right away . i'll take five and 10 minutes each and we'll try to answer the key question . there are indeed those moments that could lead to these customers, whether together with the colonel fart, the whole story ended and the perpetrator was punished. then, well, was he killed, or did he kill himself there? well, if the ends were cut off, then they were cut off at the end . is it still possible to continue this thread, ms. larisa, please? well, it seems to me that even in this book, the causal

circumstances and everything that could be done and only the state of ukrainian politics now, the priorities are completely different in society, i do not see anyone who will not be interested in the completion of this case, the calculation of those who lost millions, every million , i will write this, it did not happen, it turned out to be very cynical and realistic, and knowing the state of of society and journalism, you achieved what we say as a moral operative that this is a case without a statute of limitations. but in fact , 23 years is already the statute of limitations, as they believe , although for the most serious crimes, of course , there is no such statute of limitations, but it is morally tired a new part is coming to life, and a society that generally thinks that this is some prehistoric topic that should be turned

over, forgotten and moved on, and those who wanted to make money from this business made money and, unfortunately, a tragic story with the publication founded by george ivan , this is also statement of all this. that is, this is such a moral destruction, devaluation of the basis for society, because there were times when it firmly stood in defense of the truth. and now society is blood, cruel wars, in particular , because there were previous missed chances for of moral recovery and we call each other and say let's do something, i don't have any more questions here. that's why we need to soberly evaluate society now, its priorities , its strengths, its political opportunities , external, remember. there was a time when

voices spoke, sounded from the osce, i say, they announced there are intellectuals there in the west. and now there is none of this and it won’t be soon, because many uh, for saharan intellectuals, they also accept the games of our dominant plan, which are being established very successfully and in front of the surprised public who constantly say, god, what how many presidents do we have? well, you may have many presidents, but we already have one system and it has remained unchanged because the last maidans were emotional but did not set themselves tough rational tasks, we still have not followed the path of solidarity when poland left 100 years that's why he says that you understand that we should bring our trip a little closer to the real state of society. i've been talking about this case for 25 years, he and i are uncomfortable acting as an extra in some

constant calls for justice justice could be established if we talked about whether all this work is realistic and who we should rely on in this, and therefore we see that our judicial system is still in spite of all the changes in the face. that is, it is a complex of issues, there is gongadze and his e tragic death alone only shows the intractability of fundamental issues . i will clarify with you and then i will give mr. roman's word. i think that you are right. well, you had a great flourishing in life. there are many things and many things to discuss with your husband. we will leave unfortunately, yevgeny kirilyovych marchuk, the former head of the security service of ukraine, the prime minister of ukraine, who worked in the system of the soviet kdb, and it had a very

good school and, of course, connections and understanding of the situation. i am not convinced that you talked about this matter with him. he understood and knew who did it and how, why, in his opinion, it could not be brought to court and to and to punishment, you know. well, i just think that mr. roman will give read i would like to become a foreigner without you, and then all three of us knowing this book. we could discuss it more, so we asked yevgena kyrylovych what the text is. he defended his dissertation in great detail as lawyers against the opposition . there were crazy obstacles to his defense, and he also exploded side and the peace there so that nothing could be harmed, he simply motivated it, told, showed but you

understand that there was a whole large line of efforts in er unfortunately, there were absolutely absolutely no people involved when they did not want to blame and it was cynical . what we wrote, we can look the main people in the eye even now and prove absolutely calmly absolutely point of view and they cleaned their archives a lot and they will understand why because they took because in paid companies discrimination at one time, despite the fact that i, er, well, i treat oleksandr moroz as

a traitor to the kaniv four, who er, simply collapsed the chance of the ukrainian position to bring marchuk to power, and i cannot speak about him with any sympathy because he was the one who voiced the blocs together with lutsenko, and then recently gave an interview that they go to kuchma's switch box with him in the neighborhood and there they probably discuss the consequences of the ukraine case, whether the military or here, that is, this serginess and this venality, well, in some way in the sense of ukrainian politics, she posed the problem of this destruction, do you also remember the picture of lutsenko at the pinchuk forum when he bowed to the hand of the bush, by the way, he was a sotok of the newspaper competition, the day we were at that time well, these were very tiny attempts to show this colossal problem of morality facing ukrainian society

and how to separate the reputational problem, because now they are talking like nothing happened, everyone there is still not heroes . are there any better sides, but the main question is that they contributed to this because russia with the hands of ukrainian politicians in the early stages, they blocked the strongest in their case, their task was to prevent him from coming to power, and they did it with the help of kuchma and kuchnost, unfortunately for journalists. by the way , i recently read a very interesting book about how german counterintelligence blocked a specialist to the authorities and this is absolutely the same falcon for a long time, they also achieved this goal too late, but still won a victory for britain later ukraine did not

learn to protect its sons because russia then bred our politicians mice to confirm your words, i recently watched a film about the operation to prevent the occupation of crimea back in 1994 or in what year, and then there was actually participation in this special operation of alpha , the organization, so to speak, because now yevgen yevgen marchuk , the organizers should not look like participants , and those who were leaders should remain with the leaders, that is, then russia did not succeed. precisely because there were professionals who were able to trick the russian special services in fact, society because russia understood that there is a person in ukraine who is capable of outplaying them. and ukrainian society , it is not clear, did not appreciate this and allowed to elect a person in russia once again in 1999, and then

kuchma's children followed suit, and now kuchma's political grandchildren and we are calling for them to do something for us because you yourselves are incapable of anything, we are only capable of walking and waving slogans, listen we must learn this is the latest story, where are the savages, a whole series well, for the sake of our children, unfortunately, now they can snatch us from us because there has to be a meeting. and there is still time , mr. roman, then we will come to the end . there is a very large number of people, i know many of them, and the whole story is interesting in a timely manner, who did not fall into the wheel of events, then , and on a larger and smaller scale, there begins to be repulsed, well, there, and, but, and oh, the story of what the death of a small person decided to do unimportant and to maintain political stability and gongadze, well, they found a fart there, if they ended there, i would like to ask very briefly, mr. roman, for your opinion

. why is this, why is this a problem ? to bring it to the end so that we have a country in which there are no small people and not small people, and if it is a political murder there or the murder of a journalist, then it should be investigated and should not be s-, e hiding under a cloth from because of the interests of the oligarchs there or because of political elites, please know, i think such there were a lot of situations like with george in ukraine. it's just that fate somehow coincided that we know a lot about this situation. well , maybe it was at such a time and at such a place and that we know this situation the most. she is certified. why did she gain such publicity precisely because society began to fight against the oligarchic power of kuchma. why is she not

investigated because there are certain influences of oligarchs interested in this issue, and again , we talk a lot about independent courts independence power structures organs but in the end, the world community demands independent and most importantly transparent and independent courts from us, but they do not exist and will not exist as long as we have a burgher state, an oligarch, and as long as oligarchs and as long as all the tatars there or the offices of the president will have influence on the courts until then we will have here this situation regarding russia is so unquestionable that russia is acting in absolutely every way to conquer, occupy and destroy ukraine, so it is much easier and cheaper for them to bribe a certain number of oligarchs or judges or someone else , even through their mass media or through the mass media of the oligarchs who were ukrainian had their own business in russia , she acted. it was always much cheaper for her than this war that is happening now

, it was heaven and she always hoped, they always did not find money, even when they did not have money, they found and acted, even the same one yeltsin at a time when there was really no money in russia and said that we russians should get up every day and think about ukraine , that is, how to conquer ukraine, and they always found money and opportunities and corruption schemes , how could this be done in ukraine a boa constrictor around the neck, so until we understand that we need to get away from moscow , until we build honest courts, honest law enforcement agencies and an honest government, we will live in the same society that we live in. unfortunately , i also want to say that in lviv on the avenue the tree of freedom planted in memory of georgy gongadze is already very, very big , and now the case is not being investigated, the state is still

fighting, suffering in blood, in agony. well, i don't know . for some reason, i believe that after this war our society will change. i believe that after this after the war, we will look at the world differently and choose our power in a different way. we will not look in the direction of buckwheat or in the direction of populists. we will become adults and actually then we will be able to overcome the difficulties that we have now i want to remember that at that time the ukrainian truth, which was started by george gongadze , wanted to take control of er surkis well, er, that is grigoriy, not that igor which senior well, i remember historically there , he promised to pay $200 or $400 a month for the maintenance of this resource, i was then working in the city of raspberry superbooks, well, it was 2000, i just graduated from university and i

was paid $60, remember. then i'm leading that $400. at that time it was damn small, well, if it wasn't enough, but it wasn't some key money, but georgy i, the host says , and he wasn't sold for any handouts who wanted to buy him in one way or another, as he was the first at that time such independent information resource and i would like to ask mr. larisa about your last meeting, georgyovich , did you have a feeling that something like this could happen to him or was it a complete surprise? there but but it was very somehow not unexpected, how did you assess it, a person who was familiar and who also knew the political situation in the country, please know it is always difficult to say when the journalist tragically died first and then so much time has passed stir his memory to say that a-a line was not only very bright

charismatic brave but very often did not whitewash political connections and all other troops which became a prerequisite and with such a certain word in this from the tragedy these do not quite look good but when we start talking about it well, no one is forcing us to block all this and tell what really did not happen, that is, we should, if we were serious researchers we restored this entire tragic history it is very many people do not benefit ourselves they started again, a lot, everyone has somehow reconciled. i say those who traded in this story. they also don't want this one to start , but they are interested in justice . well, surely there should only be myroslava and the children, and if you have been doing this for so long, your children have also grown up. for a long time, i think, doctors have been detached from our reality, and we, starting

these conversations, are only beginning to reanimate all these pains and well, chess from the fact that a colossal injustice was being done before our eyes, an insult to the memory, then monuments were erected and streets were named, they were assigned, they were given the title of hero without understanding anything and not intending to just give taxpayers to society and journalism to keep quiet and not dig into anything, this actually happened and continues to this day , and then they started buying some more western people who started to come here to tell us how it is necessary to be moral to fight corruption with the money of corrupt people , that is, that's all, cynicism has already started. we must already understand for ourselves what is really going on with this case. the film maybe it will be in 50 years, someday this story will arise again only

when society will not be so painful and there will not be so much blood, but there will be a festive connection laid out by the reasons when the murder of one person is such a difficult, complicated, controversial matter well, maybe not exactly heroes as such a hero because i am talking once again about ihor oleksandrov who was beaten with bats for speaking against the vintiv cathedral in pozlojansk and then there were also conversations on tapes when instructions were given in the same judge who was supposed to solve this case, that's when the lights started, which were held on the cell phone of donbas, those judges, those conversations of words, there , you can say, a simple stage, used it for blackmail, but it was all unfortunately, and there were people who testified that they knew that these conversations were correct. we had to investigate it, we had to fight

it, it had to be pushed out, but we couldn't do it and it all shifted, we are now saying how many people of some former past are sitting there or in these countries, yes, we have two fronts, one is open a military war with russia, and others within the country , a war with their past, a war in which we have not yet had such great success, and it can simply drag us into this hybrid state for a long time. things are his marriage, and thank you very much for the work on the book, and thank you, mr. romany, for joining us for your work , by the way, not to mention the support of the family and the already deceased mother of georgadze, and thank you for finding time for us very well talked and remembered and it hurt, but there is hope that, after

all , new ukraine will be able to close all its gestalts and one of these gestalts is not closed. it is very painful and very tragic. since those days, i have known a lot of things that are not talked about, but we can put a full stop there, we believe that it will be put and this place will be washed away from the reputation of the ukrainian authorities , first of all, we are looking for 12-year-old maksym katunina from the city of kherson, the boy disappeared. last november, and no one knows where he is now. i really hope that thanks to your care, maxim will be found . look at the photo and remember his face . if suddenly someone has seen the boy or knows something about his possible whereabouts

. delay and dial from any mobile operator the short number of the makhnolia child tracing service 116,000 calls are free if suddenly we have the opportunity call write to the chat bot of the child tracing service in telegram and i will ask for a few more minutes i would like to remind you that we are continuing the search for five-year-old yaroslav maigur, who disappeared in september of last year in the territory of the then-occupied kharkiv region. i know that at the beginning of this year, yaroslav's grandfather managed to find out that the boy is alive and even sent us a video of communication with his grandson and how did the handsome man recognize me he recognized me yask how are you doing good, the guy was taken to russia

, and from there he only once got in touch with his grandfather who lives in the kharkiv region and is now doing everything possible to find and return him the husband of his grandson last met his grandson even before the war, because the boy lived with his parents in kharkiv in the first days of the pavlo scale invasion, the situation there was quite uneasy and the family immediately decided to evacuate . occupied almost since the beginning of the war, so for about seven months, mr. serhiy could not contact his family in any way, but he believed that everything was fine with them. they may have undermined the occupation there and they will again switch to hunting, let me remind you that the liberation of kharkiv oblast took place in and last year , the soldiers of the armed forces of ukraine quickly entered kupyansk, but

kupyansk hunting remained under occupation for some time and it was there that the family of mr. serhiy was known to be in the situation was very tense in the village, and at some point they organized an evacuation column for civilians, the family of majar took the opportunity and tried to leave , but on the road between the kupyan junction and the village of kurylivka, civilian cars fired upon, and how i would have crushed the convoy, two daughters of semigoy where the same task, it turned out that they were in the alleged colony, mr. serhiy's daughter died together with her husband, but five-year-old yaroslav survived, survived and baptized a boy who was also traveling in this convoy, it was he who saved the child and allegedly managed to get to luhansk together with yaroslav. there , the man spent some time in the hospital together with the godfather, and then, unknown, went to russia. to the belgorod region, where he

was burned, to luhansk, to the kryostny hospital. the son-in-law's mother and how is yaroslav, well, the sons of the belograd region are there, now they have brought the slogans, i don't know what happened, they don't want to communicate, they don't go out, i don't know what 's going on there at all, well, to this day , i can't do anything to return the bag to how much i i know the last time they were visiting in the city region that mr. serhiy is actually in russia now and whether he is really in the belgorod region is not known for sure, so if suddenly someone has information about yaroslav maigur and his possible whereabouts, do not delay and immediately call us at the magnolia child tracing service at the short number 116,000 from any ukrainian mobile operator , calls are free, i am asking everyone who knows anything about my grandson, where he is, how he is

feeling, please let me know for this is very important to me. i have a family, my own child. i don't know who to rely on anymore. we have created a resource thanks to which you can report any crime against a child in any place at any time, just go to the site and let us know. and we will launch all possible mechanisms for punishing the criminal of the ua countries like salt in the eye - this is about electronic declaration and ukrainian officials, they have been trying to hide their wealth from society for many years, the electronic declaration procedure itself was launched with a creak and only because it was a requirement as the imf, which lent money to ukraine, and the european union, with which kyiv negotiated visa-free negotiations