[000:00:00;00] hello, this is freedom, the morning, the informational project of radio svoboda, guests are here every day, this is the shipping district of kherson, live inclusion, we are somewhere in the vicinity of bakhmut, we tell the main things on weekdays at 9:00, join the community with a ukrainian view of the world, become a sponsor of the youtube channel espresso and this is access to exclusive content personal thanks pinned comments special icons and the possibility of personal communication with the espresso team click to sponsor and become part of the community with a ukrainian perspective in august 2023 the espresso tv channel continues lead the top of ukrainian informational tv channels greetings dear tv

viewers, it's time to learn about the most important thing, according to measurement data, viewers choose ukrainian ones view from espresso, congratulations friends mykola veresen congratulations to portnikov autobot of health to everyone thank you ukrainians for trusting espresso works for you we return to the conversation and this is our topic today, crimes go unpunished. why haven't the perpetrators of the murder of journalist heorhiy gongadze been punished? let me remind you that he disappeared on september 18, 2016. september 2000, 23 years ago. the day before yesterday, we still do not know the answer to the key question is with us roman gunda they are the editor of the russian liberation struggle magazine the editor-in-chief of the newspaper day well, actually, the book about which larisa talked about the boiler is a matter of fact without a statute of limitations and i have it by the way this book is a gift from the publishing house day very nice i read it studied i want these documents now. well, we have literally 20 minutes ago. i want us to do it right away. i'll take five and 10

minutes at a time, and we'll try to answer the key question. could they bring these customers out together with the colonel fart . this story ended with the perpetrator being punished. then the still-unknown general kravchenko, the minister of internal affairs of ukraine, was killed or killed himself there after the orange revolution. well, if the ends were cut off, then they were cut off at the end. is it still possible to continue this thread by larisa, please? well, it seems to me that even in this book the causal circumstances and everything that could be done and only the state of ukrainian politics were covered in detail now the priorities are from all others in society, i do not see anyone who would not be interested in the fair conclusion of this case, the calculation of those who lost millions

, all kinds of millions, i will write this, it did not happen, it turned out to be very cynical and realistic, and knowing the state of society and journalism, you achieved what we call a moral operation if it is a matter without a statute of limitations . but in fact, 23 years is already the statute of limitations , as they believe, although for the most serious crimes , of course, there is no such statute of limitations, but moral fatigue comes to the lives of new the new part is the society that generally thinks that this is some kind of prehistoric topic that should be turned over, forgotten and moved on, and those who wanted to make money from this business made money and , unfortunately, the tragic story of the publication founded by georgiy ivan, this is also the statement

of all of this. that is this is such moral destruction, the devaluation of the foundations for society, because there were times when it stood firmly in defense of the truth, and now society is blood , brutal wars, in particular, because there were previous missed chances for moral recovery, and we call on each other and say let's go there, i don't have any more questions. that's why we need to evaluate society now, its priorities , its strengths, its political opportunities, external, remember. there was a time when voices spoke from the osce. this does not exist and will not happen soon because many western intellectuals also accept from the game our dominant plan, which is very successful in front of the foundation and in the eyes of the surprised public who

constantly says, god, we are doing well, critical how many presidents do we have? well, we may have many presidents, we already have one system and it has remained unchanged because the last maidans were emotional, but they did not set themselves tough, rational tasks . we must bring our trip a little closer to the real state of society, so i have been talking about this case for 25 years, he and i are uncomfortable acting as such extras in some constant calls for justice , justice could be established if we would talk about whether it is realistic here and the people's commissar, we must rely on this. that is, we see that with our judicial system

until now, despite all the seemingly changing faces . that is, it is a complex of issues. there is gongadze and his tragic death alone shows the intractability of fundamental questions i will clarify with you and then i will give mr. roman's word i think that you are for sure well you had a lot of luxury in life a lot of things a lot of money to discuss with your husband while we are on our way unfortunately yevhen kirilyovych marchuk the former head of the security service of ukraine, the prime minister of ukraine, who worked in the system of the soviet kgb, and it had a very good school and, of course, connections and understanding of the situation . i am convinced that you talked about it. he understood and knew who did it and how, why, in his opinion, it could not be brought to court and to and to punishment, you know.

well, i just think that mr. roman will let you read the book. themes of foreignness and then, all three of us knowing this book, we could discuss it more with you, because there is the equation of kyrylov cherkashchyna, the text . he defended his dissertation in great detail as lawyers from the opposition. there were crazy obstacles to his defense, and it is used in public, where nothing could be harmed, he simply motivated it they told, they showed but you understand that a whole lot of effort was spent on transferring responsibility to innocent people and one of the targets. unfortunately , his route was absolutely, absolutely not

they wanted to blame the person involved, and it was cynical. many of my e-colleagues, even former employees of the newspaper or former pupils of mine, participated in gypsy companies . if you know some, she was never afraid of her careers because what we wrote, we can change you. in the eyes now and prove absolutely calmly absolutely point of view and they cleaned their archives a lot and you will understand why because they took discrimination in paid companies for one time despite the fact that i, uh, well, i treat her oleksandr moroz as a traitor to the kaniv four who, er, simply collapsed the chance of the ukrainian position to bring marchuk to power, and i can't talk about him with any sympathy, because he was the one who voiced flowers together with lutsenko and then recently gave an interview that they go to kuchma

's in the neighborhood, drink a glass with him, and there they probably discuss the consequences of ukraine's affairs , the military, or here, that is, this serginess and this venality, well, in some sense , she put the problem of this destruction in ukrainian politics, do you remember that as well as a picture of lutsenko at the forum of pinchuk when he is in a climate that is in the hands of kuschini, by the way, it was a hundred percent of the newspaper competition , the day we were then. well, these were very tiny attempts to show this colossal moral problem facing ukrainian society, a reputational problem how to separate, because now they are talking as if nothing had happened, everyone there is still not heroes. and there are still some better sides, but the main issue in this is that they contributed to the fact that russia

was blocked by the hands of ukrainian politicians in the early stages in the case of the strongest in the case of gen. marchuk, their task was to prevent him from coming to power, and they did it with the help of a henchman and accuracy and a journalist. unfortunately, by the way, i recently read a very interesting book about how german counterintelligence blocked churchill's coming to power, and it is absolutely yes and faith herself for a long time, they also managed to do this too late, but still won a victory for britain, ukraine did not learn to protect its sons because russia then bred our politicians as mice confirmation of your words, i recently watched a film about the operation to prevent the occupation of crimea back in 1994 or in what year, and then she actually participated in this special operation alpha

, the organization is participating, so to speak , because now yevhen yevhen marchuk is not a participant should look like organizers and those who were leaders should remain guides, that is, then russia failed precisely because there were professionals who succeeded under the noses of the russian special services, in fact, because russia understood that in ukraine there is a person who is capable she has to outplay and the ukrainian society did not understand this and did not appreciate this and allowed in 1999 to once again elect a person to russia , and then the children of kuchma reached for it and now the political grandchildren of kuchma and we call on them to do something for us because you yourselves we are not capable of anything, we are only capable of walking and waving slogans, listen, we must learn, this is the latest story, where are the savages, a whole series well, for the sake of our children, unfortunately, they can

steal from us now, because there should be a meeting. and there is still time , then mr. roman, we will approach already then to the end, roman , in your opinion, you know, it is very unfortunate that, well, what do they think of a small person, giorgiy gongadze, because for all the people who were there, yes, well, there is a very large number of people, i know many of them, i am also interested in the stories of who is there in a timely manner did not get into the wheel of events then, and both on a larger and smaller scale , the odsurkisov begins, well, there and, but oh, the story that the death of a small person decided to make it unimportant and to preserve political stability, and the race is there, well, the fart was found, if only on this finished. i would like to ask very briefly, mr. roman, for your opinion . why is this, why is this a problem? of small people, and if it is a political murder there or the murder of a journalist, then it should be investigated and should not be s-, e hiding under a cloth from because of the interests of the oligarchs there

or the political elite, please know. i think there were many such situations as with georgiy in ukraine. simply er, kind of like that we have come to the conclusion that we know a lot about this situation. well, maybe it was at such a time and in such a place, and that we know this situation the most . that society began to fight against the oligarchic power of kuchma. why is it not investigated because there are certain influences of oligarchs interested in this issue, and again , we talk a lot about independent courts and about the independence of power structures and bodies, but in the end, the world community demands from us

independent, most importantly, transparent and independent courts, but they do not exist and will not exist as long as we have a burgher state , an oligarch, as long as oligarchs and as long as all the tatars there or the offices of the president will have influence on the courts until then, we will have them. this is the situation with russia, it is undeniable russia acts in absolutely every way to grab, occupy and destroy ukraine , so it is much easier and cheaper for them to bribe a certain number of oligarchs or judges or someone else , even through their mass media or through the mass media of oligarchs who were ukrainian she operated her business in russia. it was always much cheaper for her than the current war. it was heaven and she always hoped. they always did not find money, even when they did not have money, they found and acted, even the same yeltsin at a time when there was really no money in russia and said that we russians should get up every day and think about ukraine, that is, how to conquer ukraine, and they always

found money and opportunities and a scheme of corruption , how could it be possible in ukraine to put a boa around our necks, so until we understand that we need to get away from moscow until we build honest courts, honest law enforcement agencies and an honest government, we will live in the same society that we live in. unfortunately , i also want to say that in lviv, on svobody avenue, there is a tree planted in memory of heorhiia gongadze is already very, very big, and the whiskey is currently not investigated, the state continues to struggle, suffering in blood and in agony . well, i don't know. for some reason, i believe that after this war our society will change. i believe that after this war, we will look at the world differently. and choose differently

the government and we will not look at the side of the buckwheat through the side of the populists, uh, there are all kinds of marzipans that some of them promise us , i don't want to name their names. i believe that ukrainian society will become different, become more mature, and in fact, then we will be able to overcome the difficulties that we have now, i want i remember that at that time, the ukrainian pravda, which was started by georgy gongadze, wanted to take control of er surkis. whether to pay $400 for a month for the maintenance of this resource, i then worked in the city of raspberry superbooks, well, it was the year 2000, i had just graduated from the university and i was paid $60, i remember. then i add that $400 at that time was damn small, well, if it wasn't a lot, but it wasn't some key money, but georgy, the host says that he wasn't sold for any handouts that wanted to buy him one way or another in such a way as, well, the first at that time such an independent information resource and i would like

to decide to ask you, ladies, and here is your last meeting with georgiy, did you have a feeling at the time that something like this could happen to him or was it a complete surprise? i remember for me, well, i didn't know georgy was very young in journalism at that time, but it was very somehow not unexpected. how did you rate it? a person who was familiar, who also knew the political situation in the country, please know, it is always difficult to say when, firstly , a journalist will be tragic in general, and then so much time has passed , to stir his memory, to say that he was not only very bright, charismatic, but brave, but very often not broken in political connections and all other cities , which became a prerequisite and with such a certain background in this tragedy, this does not look good to me, but when we start talking about it

, well, after all, no one forces to block all this and tell what was not really there, that is, we should, if we were serious researchers. we have restored this whole tragic story. it did not bring out ours for many people . they started again. they also don't want this to start, but justice has been established for those interested. well, surely there should be only miroslava and the children, and if it had been going on for so long , the children have also grown up for you. doctors have long been disconnected from our reality, and we are just starting these conversations, i think. to reanimate all these pains and, well, chess from the fact that the colossal injustice of the insulted memory was happening before our eyes, then monuments were erected and streets were named, they were given

the title of hero without understanding anything and not intending only to give further information to society and journalism, to keep silent, turn to nothing, do not dig into anything, this actually happened and continues to this day, and then they began to buy some more western people who began to come here to tell us how to be moral, to fight corruption with the money of corrupt people, that is, and that's all , cynicism has already set in. we have to understand for ourselves what's really going on with this case. maybe someday we'll make a movie, maybe it 'll be in 50 years, someday. this story once again will arise only when the society will not be so painful and there will not be so much blood

, but a festive connection will be laid by the reasons when the murder of one person is such a difficult, complicated, controversial matter. who was beaten with bats for speaking out against the vintovsk cathedral in the middle slavonic and then there were also conversations on tapes when instructions were given and in the same way that he was supposed to solve this system, that's when these fires started which you were led by those judges, these conversations of words, also saying all the stage used it is blackmail, but it was all ours and there were people who testified that they know that these conversations were right there , it had to be investigated, it had to be fought, it had to be pushed out, and we didn't were able to do it and it all moved, we say now how many people of some former past are sitting there in these countries, yes, we have two fronts, one is an open military war with russia, and others inside the country are at war with their

past, a war in which we are not yet in we have such great success and she can simply drag her into this hybrid state for a long time . what was added for your work, by the way, is also not the support of the family and the already deceased mother of georgadze and thank you for finding time for us , we talked very well and remembered and it hurt, but there is hope that after all new ukraine will be able to close all its gestalts and one of these gestalts not closed is very painful tragic, this is the death and murder of georgy gongad, let's believe that there are many journalists who have been there since those times in this very difficult topic .

that it will be staged and this place will be washed away from the reputation of the ukrainian government, first of all, so that the ukrainians do not think about so that they do not speak in the first place , the war still comes out, the war and our victory is only on espresso from monday to monday completely different spheres human activities sports health politics the return of crimea military analytics nine presenters journalists experts opinion leaders in real time about the most relevant events through the prism of war in author's projects on espresso collaborator a person who consciously cooperates with the occupation authorities to the detriment of their own country until recently these people they lived next to each other and pretended to love ukraine, our home, school family, our only ukraine, but in reality they were waiting for russian

peace, independence day, this is the day we celebrate our family, we have traitors on our faces, know that punish watch the oranta program every wednesday at 17:45 on the espresso tv channel in august 2023 the espresso tv channel continues to lead the top operating tv channels i congratulate you dear tv viewers, it's time to learn about the most important thing according to the measurement data, the viewers choose exactly the ukrainian view your espresso congratulations friends mykola veresen vitaly portnikov the image of health thank you to all ukrainians for their trust . espresso works for you. ukrainians romanticize freedom. this is how it happened in our tradition. will

, freedom, it's all like air, something you don't care about. you can touch, but without it you can’t breathe and on the one hand, it’s really like the classics, because there’s no zloty, comparing all the gold against freedom, it’s just a swamp, but only now, when they try to subjugate us again , not metaphorically, but literally, when they try to capture or destroy only now

an understanding has come freedom has a price and its exorbitant juice must be paid for and we pay vasyl's big broadcast in the winter two hours of airtime two hours of your time two hours to learn about the war and what the world is like 2 hours to be aware of economic news and new of sports for two hours in the company of favorite presenters, presenters who have become like-minded to many, as well as distinguished guests of the studio, the events of the day in two hours, vasyl's big broadcast in winter, a project for intelligent and caring people in the evening, naspresso . congratulations, we really ask for your help in the search. here is

this guy, his name is maksym, he is the ninth, he is 16 years of them, in fact, under rather mysterious circumstances, everything happened in the poltava region on june 20 of this year, and since then nothing is known about the fate of maksym, moreover , the boy is with his mother, here is her photo, please take a look carefully the woman karina, 36 years old, was informed about the disappearance of her mother and her son by their relatives. they said that ms. karina and maxim left kremenchuk, where they lived , without telling anyone . a lot of time has passed, but unfortunately there is no news about the woman from son, the relatives of maxim and his mother have no idea where they might be now, what prompted them to take such a step and why they did not inform anyone about it , it is also unclear at the moment. we really hope that everything is okay with maxim and we really ask you

do not remain indifferent and help in the search. so please share this video on your social networks, because maybe someone you know will recognize the boy and his mother , and in general it is clear that the more people learn about the search for the child, the more chances there will be to find her and i ask everyone to once again carefully look into the face of maxim the ninth, if you know even something about him or his mother, do not delay and immediately report to our hotline at the number 116,000 calls from all mobile operators in in ukraine, you can also write to the chatbot of the children's search service in telegram, in general, many boys and girls are currently wanted and each of us can really help to find them, so please go to the website of the children's search service, maybe you will recognize someone and actually one of one of these boys is a five-year-old mouse miller who disappeared in the luhansk region during the occupation together with his mother, her

name is maryna oleksandrivna melnyk, she was born in 1997. unfortunately, there is currently little information about the circumstances of the mouse's disappearance, but i emphasize that i really hope for your attentiveness, indifference to the word has helped us more than once to find missing boys and girls. so, it is known that misha disappeared in the mill of luhansk region, in the temporarily occupied village of grechyshkine, mishko lived with his mother at 13 sonyachna street, and one of them is a boy in march 2022, since then about the fate of the mouse. unfortunately, no one knows anything. mishko melnyk looks 5-6 years old, of average stature, approximately 110-116 cm tall, has blond hair, so if you suddenly somewhere did you jump over the boy or do you know anything about him and his mother, please immediately contact the child tracing service , of course it is possible that the boy

is still somewhere in the occupied territories , they do not broadcast ukrainian tv there, but still the residents of luhansk region who may see this program on youtube i ask you to look especially carefully into the face of the mouse, report any information about misha melnyk, i ask you to call our hotline 116,000,000 free calls from all mobile operators in ukraine. you can write a telegram there, i emphasize that there is no unimportant or secondary information in the search in this not a simple process , any even the smallest information is poor, which in the end can become decisive, and as at the beginning of this video, i once again ask you to spread it on social networks without exaggeration every repost of yours, your activity is invaluable and a really effective contribution to the search for children, we have created a resource thanks to which you can report any

crime against a child in any city at any time, just go to the site and let us know and we will launch all possible mechanisms for punishing the criminal stopkraymy.ua i welcome news to the artery espresso is working with you in the studio how is kateryna shirokopoyas from this night the occupiers attacked ukraine again with shaheds an air alert was announced in the north-east and south of the country and also in kyiv it is known that the russians struck in the poltava region this was reported by the head of the regional military administration, dmytro