[000:00:00;00] will not be liquidated or killed in battles by then, they will be installed, searched for and prosecuted for many, many years, these are inevitable processes, i am simply recalling in this context the statement of the head of the security service of ukraine, mr. malyuk, who said that the russians underestimated the ability of the security services to document their criminal activities even in the occupied territories, that is, if someone there thinks that they did something there and it went unnoticed and will not have consequences, well no, well outside the 21st century and everything is tracked, everything leaves some kind of trace and prosecution is inevitable, and this is not only, absolutely true, mr. valentine, and the hosts of this radio, thousands of putins, and those who listened and performed, all of them, orders and

incitement, thank you for joining our broadcast at such a late hour, valentin gladkikh, a political scientist, was in the only news marathon, we are moving on. the court of new york found donald trump guilty of fraud, according to the investigation, the ex-president of the united states over the years overestimated his billions of dollars worth of capital. in this way, he tried to get favorable credit terms and lower insurance premiums. the decision was made in the order of simplified proceedings. it satisfies the prosecutor general's preliminary requests and makes it possible to bring the suspect to justice in the further process, which will begin on october 2. prosecutors insist on a $250 million fine for trump's ban on doing business in new york state. at the end of last year, the court found two of trump's companies guilty of fraud from paying taxes for 15 years. ihor eisenberg, a professor at new york university, is with us live in the one news marathon. mr. igor, our congratulations. greetings,

friends, greetings to all viewers. how hot and stormy is this news regarding the recognition of donald trump as guilty of fraud in american society, or has nothing special happened, considering all those cases and those accusations that are being thrown at donald trump, well, she usually discussed by the american media on television, in newspapers, well, people, look, i was at work, let's say today, no one talks about it, people just have other, other things that can be discussed, that is, it is not discussed much in society, well, because the fact is that donald trump has supporters, tens of millions

of them, and it doesn't matter to them what he... is found guilty of, what he has done, what he says, what he is, what he will do, they will still be his supporters, as he himself said, one day, if he goes out in new york on fifth avenue, someone shoots, then none of his supporters are wrong with him, mr. igor, the connection disappears , we hope we will restore it, of course donald trump's audience is so cemented, but first of all this is a story about american justice, independent. and here it is interesting when ihor eisenberg will contact us again so that he can give an assessment directly to this, because it is precisely these verdicts of the judges, and the decision of the judges can be compared, in particular, i will not say the whole world, but in particular we can be compared, because the americans are just proud of the fact that they built the system justice, now we want to remind you that we have a disturbing night in ukraine, and look, most of ukraine, it remains red

, this is the poltava, cherkasy, vinnytsia regions, although only two hours ago only the south of ukraine was colored red, and for now air the forces of ukraine report specifically about the missile danger in the sumy, zaporizhzhia regions, in cherkasy the threat of shock bpps , and we will remind you that mr. ihor is in touch with us , we will remind you that we talked about the fact that the new york court recognized the ex-president of the united states donald trump, and his sons, by the way, eric and donald, are guilty of fraud, and you finished, well, actually, the interview was interrupted when you quoted trump , when he said that if he goes to fifth avenue and someone will be shot, we didn't hear anything else, but for some reason i had such a persistent analogy with such a cinematic and quite

well-known image of the joker from comics, which... was played quite well, brilliantly, even played by joaquin phoenix. please continue. he then said that if he shot someone, then none of his supporters. will not turn away from him, maybe it was the only time in his life when he told the truth, but that 's how it is, that is, all this has no effect on his popularity, he remains the absolute leader in the republican presidential race, but today will be debates of republican presidential candidates, he simply does not want to participate in them, he says that he does not need it, his popularity is somewhere among republicans 59%, popularity 59-60, the popularity of the governor of florida desantes, who is in second place somewhere there, between 12 and 15%, well, that is, there, there, there, there, there mr. igor, let us remind you that

in principle 30 charges related to business fraud have been brought against trump, you say, but with business fraud yes, you say that america is now busy with other things, that even at your work this situation is not discussed, despite trump's cemented audience, please tell me, that is, america. does not react to this story as to some extent such a crown of justice, that is, it is not about politics, it is primarily about how the judicial system works or not? look, these same charges, this is a civil suit by the attorney general of new york, he will not sit down and play on these charges, there he can be tried again, he will pay a fine, the general, the attorney general of new york demands a 250-time fine, he can for... bury and his sons to manage businesses in the state of new york for 10 years, as required by the prosecutor's office, he, his, he may be deprived of his license to manage his real estate in new york, which he is very

proud of, but it is not in the mood of his supporters will not affect him well, he can then move after this decision, well, sell the property, move to another state, or whatever, it's not easy. and yes, he moved from new york when he was president, he re-registered , he officially lives in florida, not in new york, although his main business is in new york, but he, mind you , that, in addition to this civil suit, he should be charged with a criminal charge, 91 crimes, criminal, that is, there are 91 items, four criminal cases and charges the 91st count, he's there he's facing, if he's found guilty on all counts, or 500 years in prison, well yes, it absolutely does not affect his popularity among his base, which is ten really tens of millions of people,

and the problem is precisely that, because well, trump, he is trump, but the problem is that there are tens of millions of people for whom the story is about what, then the story is about loyalty, if it is not about the rule of law, then the story is about devotion to the ideals of a part of the american people, for you as a professor, about what she? for me, look, as simple as it is for a citizen, it is nice that justice works, that there is an independent judicial system, that there is a prosecutor's office that is not afraid to investigate such cases, is not afraid to actually bring charges, also about justice, uh, or whether, or for example, we can, we can mention the charges brought against the current senator from the democratic party, that is, for the prosecutor's office it does not matter which party he belongs to, it is extremely important, mr. igor, thank you, thank you, as for the professor , i'm just for you

i will say that i am very sorry that there are tens of millions of people for whom all this does not matter, because it shows that society, in society, there are some problems that need to be solved, because when people do not pay attention to pay attention to such blatant ones. this is very, very, very, you know, it confuses me, very much, of course, of course, this is the knowledge of these people, and i threw facts into knowledge, and people do not react to them, igor eisenberg, a professor at new york university, was in live broadcast how to encourage ukrainians foreign investors to invest in ukraine, what business representatives are afraid of, our colleague vadym kolodiychuk asked in an exclusive interview with business ombudsman roman vashchuk. mr. roman, if we are talking about the structure of ukraine, which is extremely important and a challenge for the authorities and society at the moment, then it is also necessary to develop the ukrainian economy through ukrainian business and the willingness of foreigners to invest in it, as you can see, what we have already achieved in these difficult conditions, and what

we still need to do, because today here at the forum, for example, ukrainian ones businessmen say that they are not very ready to invest in ukrainian energy, simply because there are no guarantees, russia can destroy this system and there is no insurance, that is, who will give them money if theirs burns conditionally, well , of course, international support for investment insurance is important, the ministry has already started working on it. more needs to be done in the economy, both from the ukrainian side and from the side of international partners. also, depending on how long the war period will last, it will be necessary to do, maybe some a little unpopular decisions, because, for example, to invest in the energy sector when , say, the price of electricity does not justify any capital investment, it will be difficult, unless there are some... state guarantees, and this is

simply a postponement of the same bills that will come someday, and they will have to be paid, so it seems to me that we see that where the problem is imminent, the private sector can solve it, we recall the fuel crisis of last spring of 22, when there was government regulation, when the fuel disappeared, and how about within a few months this one the problem has been eliminated even now, although the price is slowly rising, but even less so far in ukraine than on the global wholesale market, so there are sectors where it helps immediately, but where large capital investments are required, which will pay off in 10, 15, 20 years , we need a long-term state strategy and guarantee, but do we have this strategy at the moment, because now the government is in the process of agreeing with the verkhovna rada

the estimate of the main estimate of our country for next year yes, that is, the budget of 20, 24, we are dependent on our investors, more precisely from our partners, but we are also talking about investors , whom we are calling to come to ukraine, how do we move from the position, we are dependent on external capital, and please give us for that, come, see how cool we are , invest in us. i participated last week in an offline and online round table at the ministry of reconstruction with deputy prime minister kubrakov and dozens of businessmen from different parts of the world were connected there, in particular i was impressed by 34 from australia who are interested it is precisely ukrainian infrastructural objects as opportunities for one's investments that must be acted upon here, with respect for those already invested in ukraine, i.e.

, this is already what the business ombudsman says to me, not to make unpleasant surprises for people who are already here on the ukrainian the market, and they learn that suddenly, whether the tax office, the auditor or some other law enforcement agencies surprise them , this cannot be done now, because it immediately undermines the confidence of future investors, so you can't just say, you have to... prepare for the future, we must act justly and decisively now, and on this example , those people who are now looking closely at ukraine and actively looking closely, i.e. there is interest, there is, despite, despite the war, all the same, despite the war, then it is necessary to understand that ukraine will be the largest construction site in the world in a few years.

and any firm that is, say, in the industry of construction, building materials, restoration of heavy infrastructure, say, power grids and so on, they are interested, but they want to know if we can predictably, when it comes to this the security situation will allow, to operate in this market, and therefore the worst arrivals in ukraine politically and e are not calibers that will get through air defense, but they are arrivals from their own state institutions that make ill-considered sudden decisions that scare the present and future, sorry, but i, i want us to fix this thesis, that is, not so , ukrainian foreign investors are scared by russian missiles as inconsistent state policy, it is not, of course that if you want to build a large infrastructural object, then

missiles will scare you very much , but we see it is even according to surveys of the ukrainian business itself that the unpredictable actions of the state frighten them as much as the possibility of a missile arriving, so maybe there is also added faith in the ukrainian defense forces, which has strengthened and shows, of course, of course, the effectiveness of defense forces is a part, it is the state here is doing everything, will help to provide opportunities , uh, you know, uh, the very fact that we're having this conference here, in a conference center, a business center that uh, was reborn on the basis of a factory that ceased to function, but is still functioning now in the new economy, within the it workers, new investments, all this shows that in ukraine even in the current conditions

it is possible to do this business. i have an invitation for this week , unfortunately, i will not be able to accept it, due to other deadlines, to the opening of... a new factory of glass, in western ukraine, an international investor, er, in a word, er , as if someone were a cynic, i would say that they understood that nowhere in the world will it be necessary to replace as much glass as in ukraine, but there is a positive, the investment has been made, jobs are provided, opportunities for further development exist, then summing up, as of now, as you can see, well, i want to somehow understand in numbers, the investment attractiveness of ukraine is, so how much money can we attract, again, by appealing to the state budget, about half, and these are social guarantees, this ensuring the functioning of the state, these are donor funds, can we talk about the fact that, well, if we attract, if the state

will work effectively, then let's say the budget of the 25th year, even in war conditions, will already depend on our donors for a third, but not by half, i think that there is potential here, it is necessary for the state to act, predictably, so that both ukrainians and foreigners can be sure that in a year what was promised to them will be carried out, so that the war itself in itself is extremely unpredictable, but for that, the state in relation to business must be more than foreseen, of course, thank you. thank you, thank you, we will continue this topic on our broadcast, in particular a little later, and now about the un commission, which is concerned about the genocide committed by the russian federation against ukrainians, or it is possible to bring the aggressor country to justice, about this further with candidate

of legal sciences gennady dubov. mr. gennadiy, i welcome you to the broadcast of the telethon, i congratulate you, and let's start our conversation with the fact that the oo commission on the prevalence of torture by the russian military and this commission is concerned about the possibility of genocide, you know, it is remarkable that this commission did not notice the day before, remember we know that they were with us in ukraine in the spring, they did not notice the signs of genocide on the part of the russian federation, now we see that the rhetoric is changing, but is it really possible to prove that the russian federation committed genocide in ukraine , because many lawyers say that it is almost impossible to prove genocide, well, you can agree with them, it is impossible to prove genocide simply because at one time, when the convention was adopted , essentially following the results of the second world war, there were considerable disputes about what to consider genocide, what not to consider, the practice of sentencing for genocide, it is

actually, well, rather stingy, during the second half of the 20th century and accordingly part of the 21st century, and the actual problem is the following: that political groups of the population are not included in the definition of genocide, that is, it is necessary to prove, first of all, that purposeful decisions were made to exterminate on ethnic, religious and certain other grounds. today, those who say that it will be difficult to prove genocide, roughly speaking, start from the fact that it is obvious that actually ukrainians were killed, but whether they were killed precisely on the basis of ethnicity, or roughly speaking, the advancing russian troops did not care, who? there, according to the nationality of the one whom they killed and, accordingly, or committed torture against him, etc., but again, we have to assume that all this does not mean that the world community does not recognize these actions

as criminal, because genocide is relatively speaking, a separate component of the offense of criminal international law, in addition to it there is much more, including the killing of the civilian population, including torture, and so on, that is, we are talking about qualifications, because for example, if we understand according to our national legislation, that one person causes the death of another, then, let's say this, in the everyday sense, it is all murder, but in fact, even the ukrainian criminal code contains probably under five dozen articles under which responsibility can arise, and it is mostly not will actually be intentional murder, so these are mostly legal subtleties of history, the fact is that the main thing for us is that international investigations into the murders of ukrainians are recognized as crimes in one way or another, and actually separate measures of an international legal nature are already today are accepted in order for the guilty to bear their responsibility. in particular. including, first of all, the crime of aggression committed by the russian federation in relation to ukraine, and here, in fact, including the murders

of both military and civilians, so to speak , are covered by this composition, regarding genocide, then really, simply due to the lack of practice, in due to the fact that this is a controversial issue in the science of international law, well , there are many other nuances, including those that are of a historical nature, we should not take them conditionally the refusal to prosecute the leadership of russia for genocide as a refusal to prosecute it at all, because genocide is simply one of the possible crimes that were committed on the territory of ukraine, and if the conviction actually takes place, but not for genocide, but simply for the killing of the civilian population, then by and large, from the point of view of the consequences, it will matter only possibly for some history textbooks, but we can provide a political assessment on our own, it is not necessary for it to sound in a court verdict, well, in general, decision of the un commission. who should reckon with them? well, these are essentially certain recommendations, they do not have powers as a body of justice, they do not have powers as

a body of pre-trial investigation, in the sense of ukrainian national legislation, there is the same international criminal court, it is not bound by their conclusions, and it can must examine the evidence directly and make its own conclusions, so it is , relatively speaking, such a worldwide legal monitoring, if you will, which does not pass... judgments, it is essentially a commission specialists, which conducts to a certain extent an examination, an examination in the broadest sense of the word, including expressing their judgments about what they believe was really, and what really happened, it is essentially more for the formation of world public opinion, and if they confirm it is true that crimes were committed, this is actually a plus for ukraine, because we actually have the same position that crimes were committed on our territory, and separately according to the information of mr. kostin, the prosecutor general of ukraine, who expressed it at a joint event with the carnegie foundation, we are talking about 1,000 criminal

proceedings that are connected in one way or another with military aggression, a colossal number, more than 104 times, and we, and we believe that definitely each of these crimes should be punished, and the responsibility in this sense must be inevitable, but the expertise of the un commission, it can be used when... the investigation is started, right, it can be the basis of these investigations? probably not, not in the basis, in as one of the factors, as one of materials, that is, roughly speaking, material of such a reference nature, because one way or another every event of a crime that has the character of a crime against humanity or a war crime, it must be substantiated by direct evidence, that is, specifically by the court and specifically by the prosecutor there, depending on the format of this tribunal , must directly study specific, that is, he cannot conventionally speaking, from the words of the commission or anyone else draw conclusions about guilt or innocence,

the necessary direct evidence that will researched in a certain format, which is essentially still being determined today, that's why it's important, but it's important, i repeat, it 's more informational than legal, well, and also from an important point, human rights defenders are collecting evidence for the international criminal court, and we've already said about the fact that our field office of this institution has also started working in kyiv , so deny the evidence that russia deliberately used hunger as a weapon against ukraine, there is also a lot of skepticism from lawyers, because they say that there is also a motivation here, what exactly in order to die starved, killed, committed this or that crime, well, it's also almost impossible, well, to be honest, i don't quite understand exactly which episodes we are talking about, if we are talking about, for example , the naval blockade, then this is an independent component of the crime of aggression, if we are talking about it is about torture, it is also a war crime, if it can also be the case, if they prove genocide, it

can be a way of committing genocide, if such signs will be seen by those who will conduct the investigation and consider the case, that is, the famine itself in itself in this in the context is a way of committing some other offense, some other war or other crime against humanity, so in this context it is necessary to see what exactly the law enforcers mean, but the main thing is that one way or another the collection of evidence, criminal acts, or what someone considers to be criminal acts, it continues, it must take place in strict accordance with that, in particular with the rome statute, which governs the international criminal court, and it is likely and we hope that everything will be done qualitatively, in fact, the materials will be at the forefront, as it was, by the way, with the actual deportation of our children, the russian federation, these materials at one time became the basis for actually issuing warrants to putin and lvov

bilov, so it is about three episodes, there the siege of chernihiv . when chernihiv was under occupation and people could not reach sources of food, this is mariupol, the siege of mariupol, and this is a situation with the impossibility of exporting ukrainian grain, ukrainian grain, well, it is likely that this will rather be a component of the crime of aggression, about which there are many discussions is in the plan of the tribunal, which should still be created, it has not been created today, because we also remember that the international criminal court due to the fact that the russian federation... did not ratify the rome statute, as it did not ratify and ukraine, while, at least, it has a fairly limited range of application of its jurisdiction, and in this regard, it has been proposed for a year and a half, we are talking about a certain format of tribunals, which will be carried out either under the jurisdiction of ukraine or under the jurisdiction of a third country, or on the basis of an international agreement, while this issue is still in the process, well, maybe

the last one was about a month ago, the latest news was that allegedly... it can be conducted under the patronage of the netherlands, actually according to the legislation of this kingdom, so here the process is not yet so to speak determined my framework, but i emphasize once again that the collection of evidence is a continuous process, and while they are conditionally speaking capable of being fixed, they need to be fixed and then passed on, conditionally speaking, let's see who will work with it, for today, until it is not clear to the end. well, let's get to the end of our conversation. as for our immediate future, probation supervision is being introduced in ukraine, president zelsky signed the corresponding bill , number 9185, these changes will come into effect in six months, for whom is this all for whom is it intended for and what will it change for our penitentiary system? it is also necessary

to rule out certain speculations, which are already beginning little by little, that allegedly everyone there will be released from the criminal prison and everything will grow there in the plan criminality and danger, in fact it is not so, the situation is quite simple in the legal sense, we have, among others, in criminal law and in criminal executive law two types of punishment, arrest and restriction of liberty, not to be confused with deprivation of liberty, there is restriction of liberty and there is deprivation of liberty, this arrest and this restriction of liberty are changed to so-called probation, they change it, why? because during the entire existence of our criminal code, which is already more than 20 years, these punishments did not work, for arrests they had to create detention centers, for accordingly, the restriction of free will, specialized institutions that would allow this punishment to be served by people who are sentenced to it, but due to the fact that there was never a normal infrastructure for carrying out these punishments, they were carried out in any way, god forbid , so to speak, the restriction of freedom in the end, it was very similar to deprivation of liberty with a minimum

level of security in the colonies of the respective people, and the rest were essentially carried out there in full. in detention centers, and in fact the courts, as a rule, tried not to impose such types of punishments, here in fact we simply bring it into line, that is, roughly speaking, this probation, it will be something very similar to a suspended sentence, when a person must be held criminally liable, he just being in his own home, he has certain restrictions from the point of view of traveling abroad, from the point of view of a number of other reasons, there, for example, she may be required to undergo a course of treatment for alcoholism or drug addiction, must appear there, be marked conditionally before the penitentiary service, and so on, very, very, in short, similar to what we call today a conditional sentence to the deprivation of imprisonment, therefore all this should be perceived only as cosmetic to a certain extent, and on the other hand to bring our legislation in line with the real situation, therefore

let me repeat once again, arrests and restrictions of freedom, they were carried out, let's say so , improperly, simply due to the fact that the infrastructure was not created even before the war, much before the war, thank you, thank you very much for your analysis, gennadiy dubov, candidate of legal sciences. the broadcast of the national indoor marathon continues. only news , tetyana goncharova, i, maksym zborovskyi, and andriy sinitsyn are working for you until 6:00 a.m. , i am ready to provide the latest information, the air alert continues now in part of the southern regions and in the central regions, andriy, we will learn the details from you . thank you, friends, indeed, now we will tell you the details not only about the air alert, but also about how odesa is recovering after massive enemy strikes, news release, literally in a moment. strengthen the borders of ukraine drones, join the border guard gathering. congratulations ukrainians,