we see that this has not happened, and that is why they are actually delaying the return. if we assess the situation in general, as you think, only security, or the economic situation in europe, which in certain countries is better than in ukraine, become the factors that force ukrainians to decide to stay abroad for an indefinite period of time, maybe a term, maybe defined, well, safety, of course, is in the first place, it is both general, general painful actions, and rocket attacks, because unfortunately, rockets, they fly even in relatively safer regions, but economic reasons are also important, and according to our survey, at least, the more important are not so, economic factors in europe, as economic factors in ukraine, that is, for example, the most important economic factor our respondents said is the opportunity to find a good job in ukraine, that is, it is also important, but not as important as security, but from the data

published in this survey, we understand that a quarter of refugees are mostly middle-aged women with children, and who are not very are they adapted or used to life abroad, what do you think of these people, refugees there, specifically women of this age with children, are they more difficult to return than all other categories in general, or are they, on the contrary, easier to return, because if they are not adapted to living abroad border, then as soon as the hostilities conditionally end, they will be ready to return here, which also depends on which other refugees to compare with, because , for example, there are people who were very successful there in ukraine, they had a high level income, but unfortunately they cannot abroad to confirm their education or work in a specialty, and such people want to return more than people who, and in ukraine, in principle, had a small level of income, and working abroad in the same specialty, for example, with some... work specialty,

they can earn much more than in ukraine, and regarding women with children, it seems to me that children are also an important aspect here, because in the last wave we also asked respondents whether their children want to return, and we see that desire to return among children, it is less than among adults, and children 14-17 years old are especially such a risk category, that is, these are children who, in principle, can enroll themselves in a university and stay, or in a college, stay abroad, even if their parents return, that is, it is also worth keeping, keep in mind, well, when we informed our viewers about this study today, we very briefly mentioned the figure of how much the ukrainian economy could lose, from the fact that ukrainian refugees will not return, in general, as the situation is now looks threatening precisely for the ukrainian economy, and this is really so separate... and the article

of losses that we feel due to the war, that is, as you already said, that it is from 2-8 to 6.9% of gdp annually, the ukrainian economy can lose , that is, even after the war, even when the war is already over, if these people continue to stay abroad , that is, we will fall short of these losses every year, and a particularly important nuance is that the majority of refugees are women and children of reproductive age. sorry, children and women of reproductive age, and that means that our future generation will be even smaller, and this will also create additional pressure, for example, on the pension system, because the more, the less labor force we have in the future, the less we will be able to pay pensions, for example, that is, this money will have to be found in another place, or to reduce pensions, well, the question is logical, in conclusion, how the ukrainian authorities, the ukrainian government should work today... in what direction exactly

in order to return ukrainians, of course, there are objective reasons, such as hostilities, which cannot force people to return, if they decide that safety is the first priority, they want to stay there, but still the youth as an example, should be created, i don't know special programs for the government, which will somehow stimulate people to return, let me say it like this, or what the researchers who spoke in particular with the ukrainians say, so in principle there are a number of recommendations, some of them are relevant after the war, some of them are relevant now, first of all, it is necessary to rebuild those territories that suffered from hostilities, that is, we now see that a certain part of the territories, it is already deoccupied, there is the kyiv region, chernihiv region, sumy region, kherson region and so on, that is , reconstruction can be carried out there so that people who left there have a place to return, in addition, the process needs to be simplified reintegration, for example, of children to schools, so that when , if they returned, they did not need to pass additional exams or,

for example, if they graduated from a foreign school and want to enter a ukrainian university, so that this process would be as simple as possible. also like us we see, because one of the biggest reasons for not returning is... work and not being able to find work, maybe help with organizing, for example, finding a job in a safer area, as well as retraining courses for people who need it, and you can, for example, at the expense of public-private partnerships, to organize the return of people, for example, when a company gives people a job, and the state gives them housing so that they can live in safer regions and work, and of course you need to cooperate with eu countries. in return of ukrainians after the war already, so that the ukrainians themselves would be encouraged to return home after the war, because this is exactly what they will benefit from, as ukrainians, an important, important topic, daria, it is really important and we need to talk about it a lot, daria mykhelchyna is a senior

economist at the center for economic strategy , our guest, we talked about the research that we conducted with the support of this institution for the initiative of whether ukrainians who are currently abroad, forced by the war, want to return home. this is the freedom of the morning, only important topics and important guests, in the broadcast share your thoughts about our broadcast, which topics bother you, well, don't miss it. the separatist nagorno-karabakh republic will cease to exist on january 1, and the relevant decree was signed by the unrecognized regional government. meanwhile, azerbaijan detained the former head of the nagorno-karabakh government while trying to enter armenia. how will the fate of the ethnic armenians inhabiting the region develop, we will discuss this later. in continuation of the canadian scandal, the speaker of the house of commons canada, which invited a veteran of the galician division to the parliament, announced his resignation, and prime minister trudeau apologized for this invitation. why the historical past is still controversial among allies and how it

can play into russia's hand and what will be the conclusion of this story. subscribing to radio liberty's youtube channel is important and welcome. well, we are waiting for your comments on the topics that i raised. as well as from where you look at us, it is important for us to understand exactly in which regions svoboda ronok is popular, and where it is watched, organizations the united nations is overwhelmed by the number of refugees fleeing from azerbaijan to armenia. such a statement was made by the spokesman of the secretary general of the un, stephane dujarric. he says convoys with more aid from the refugee agency are on their way and called for the protection of civilians and international law. the office of the high commissioner for refugees says it is deeply concerned by the rapid increase in the number of refugees fleeing to armenia, with long queues reportedly forming at the border. management tells us that people arriving

are injured, exhausted and hungry and need urgent psychosocial support and emergency care, including warm clothing, blankets and medication. i will note that thousands of ethnic armenians started leaving nagorno-karabakh this sunday, as soon as azerbaijan opened the exit from this region to armenia. a few days before that, official baku started counter-terrorist measures in nagorno-karabakh, as it was called in the country, in order to restore its control over this region. according to according to the armenian government, as of thursday evening , more than 76 residents of nagorno-karabakh have arrived in armenia, which is almost 2/3 of the population of nagorno-karabakh, which armenians call artsakh. people say that they left their homes because of shelling by the azerbaijani military. when they started shooting at us, my grandson in shock ran to the basement of our neighbor, he is only 12 years old, he shouted, asked if everything was okay with our relatives and friends, we were afraid to even go out, fetch

water, we were heavily fired upon, everyone the fragments of the bomb fell on our yard, we could not to go out, not to cook or eat, we sat in the basements. how can i live with them? my sister's child was killed, many of my relatives were killed. they fired at our houses, many people died, we left the whole village and ran away. we've had terrible days, i never imagined we'd get to this point. we leave our karabakh and go away. i will also note that the day before, the authorities of the separatist region of nagorno-karabakh announced that the republic would cease to exist. january 1, 2024. this decree was signed by the president of the separatist region samvel shahraman. i quote, this happened due to the complex military-political situation and taking into account the agreements with azerbaijan regarding the unimpeded exit of civilians and military personnel who laid down their arms from the region. in addition, the azerbaijani court

arrested the former head of the separatist nagorno-karabakh region, billionaire ruben vardyanyan, for four months. a day earlier, he was detained at the border while trying to leave for armenia. in september, the azerbaijani army launched an incursion into the region, which had not been controlled by the baku authorities since the late 1980s. the armenian authorities of the unrecognized republic capitulated and are currently participating in reintegration negotiations. karabakh to azerbaijan, this is accompanied by protests in yerevan and the departure of the population from nagorno-karabakh, who fear ethnic cleansing. it is a difficult topic, there are many questions in it, we are trying to ask them and find answers to them, together with igor simovolosy, who is the executive director of the center for middle eastern studies. mr. igor, good morning. good morning, congratulations, the separatist nagorno-karabakh, the nagorno-karabakh republic will cease existence since january 1. how can you explain in simple language for whom it is a win, for whom it is a loss, what happened in general, international law actually won, it is obvious,

the gain of azerbaijan, that is, the efforts that this country made for the reintegration of its territories, were finally realized in full , and indeed now, the final resolution of the karabakh issue has taken place. the final solution to the karabakh issue, i mean that these territories, which azerbaijan has not physically controlled since the late 80s , is now fully controlled by the central government, and most likely, no other entities will exist in this territory anymore, but if we talk about the fate of the ethnic armenians who inhabited this region, many of them, more than 70,000 according to the official data of the armenian authorities, have left this territory , but a significant part is afraid of ethnic cleansing, how these cleansings can take place and

what is it all about. nationalities living in karabakh, accordingly start the process of reintegration , register, that is, this is the point of view of the officials... baku, the situation is clear, that is , if you want to live in azerbaijan, you accept the law of azerbaijan and become citizens of azerbaijan with rights and obligations. but it is also clear that for the majority of armenians who have lived for a long time in the conditions of a hostile so-called environment, that is, they have created a national myth for themselves, which does not foresee the possibility of singing together. for them this situation is unacceptable and therefore the majority

population, and here it should be said that this is a collective action, i.e. when people go , mainly following the example of their acquaintances, villagers and everything else, i.e. it is such a joint choice, people... leave their homes, go to armenia, of course that there is fear, that there may be revenge, there may be some excesses and people, at least as of now, are trying to survive them safely. mr. igor, please tell me an interesting moment, the current government in armenia, how much the events that took place shook their position and support from society in in general, we know that the protests are ongoing, what can this turn into? well, the protests continue, the rest also continue those who protest, or those

who, whom, the authorities in armenia accuse of an attempt to assassinate pashinyan there or a coup attempt. and this means, at least, that the armenian government, it is not, not weak, it defends itself, this is a plus for pashinyan. minus. with the fact that, of course, there will now be a large number of refugees who are very easy to obviously mobilize for protests, let's see, there are different opinions on this, but we know that the opposition is trying to use the refugee factor precisely in order to actively involve them in the protests, if there is no substantial financial, informational, and other opposition from russia, then it is quite

possible that pashinyan stands, if there are infusions that will help the opposition, to start even more large-scale protests are long, then of course, a political crisis may await in armenia, sir, we still have literally one and a half minutes and an important question, you touched on it yourself, the actual answer to this question, considering what happened and what with on january 1, 2024, this separatist republic, separatist region ceases to exist, which means that russia has completely lost its influence there, or at least some, do you know? islands where russia can influence the socio-political situation, they remain. in the medium-term perspective, this is undoubtedly the weakening of russia, as of now they will try to play a game with azerbaijan, with the same armenia, that is , they will try to put pressure on the political structures of this country and these countries, and

try to hold on there, and physically in in the form of troops and politically in the form of influence, but in the medium term, without a doubt, their situation will worsen, unequivocally, i thank you, thank you for this inclusion, for you know, in simple language, about complex things, ihor samovolos, executive director of the center for middle eastern studies, guest of our broadcast , we talked about the situation in nagorno-karabakh, where the separatist republic ceased to exist on january 1, 2024. another important topic, ukrainians of canada expressed gratitude to the government for unwavering support of ukraine in the war against russia intrusion. the statement was made public against the backdrop of a scandal over yaroslav hunek, a veteran of the halychyna division, who was invited by the speaker of the canadian parliament on the day of ukrainian president volodymyr zelensky's speech there. honoring a veteran of the nazi military formation caused an international scandal. yaroslav

hunek was invited by the speaker of the chamber of communities, anthony rota. after president volodymyr zelenskyi's speech in the parliament, everyone standing applauded hunka, whom the speaker presented as a hero of the world war and celebrated his fight against russia. it turned out that the man served in the 14th grendar division of the sss, which is better known as the sss halychyna division. honoring yaroslav hunek outraged human rights and jewish organizations, and it was also condemned by representatives of various countries. the speaker of the house of commons, anthony rota, was forced to apologize for his actions, it turned out that the initiative to invite hunek to the parliament was not communicated to the general public. for example, the leader of the government in the canadian house of commons, karina gult, who comes from a jewish family, did not know who gunko was and applauded along with everyone him at a meeting. anthony rota resigned after a public apology. i have since learned

more information that makes me regret my decision to honor this person. i want to apologize to the house of representatives. and i am very sorry that i offended many with my gesture and remarks. i would also like to add that this initiative was solely my own. the prime minister of canada, justin trudeau, also apologized publicly. he said that he, along with everyone, regrets that he applauded the race without knowing the context and his identity. on behalf of to all of us in this house, i would like to apologize unreservedly for what happened on friday. also to president zelenskyi and the ukrainian delegation for the situation in which they found themselves and for the fact that all of us present unconsciously honored this person, which was a terrible mistake and a violation of the memory of those who suffered at the hands of the nazi regime. trudeau also said canada deeply regrets that zelensky was photographed applauding the horn. this photo was used by

russian state media. they were also indignant at of poland, they said there was a commemoration of yaroslav hunek. polish, and the minister of education of poland, pszymislav czarnyk, said that he had taken all measures to start the process of extraditing the hun to poland, the institute of national memory of poland will check whether the veteran of the division was involved in crimes during the second world war. meanwhile, ukrainian officials did not officially and publicly react to this scandal. let me remind you that the ukrainian division of halychyna was part of the waffen sss of germany in 1943-1945 and was a military formation according to the idea, the division was part of the structure of the non-general sss , which participated in holocaust and other punitive operations in the occupied territories, and the so-called ss, vafs troops and was assigned to combat operations at the front near verkhmant. at the time of the formation of the division of the world, it was already known about the tragedy of babenyar, where during two years of german occupation, from 70 to 150,000 people were shot with different

estimates, today, to the word, the 82nd anniversary of the most mass shooting in the babenyar tract, which was carried out by the nazis on september 29-30 1941. then the nazis killed more than 3030 people. as of now, none of the emigrants, former participants of the halychyna division, has been found guilty of war crimes during the second world war. anton drubovych, head of the ukrainian institute of national remembrance, as well as a serviceman of the armed forces of ukraine , joins our broadcast. good morning my regards. sir this is a very difficult topic, there are many opinions, there were many posts on social networks, many reviews about this story, let's once again put it in simple language let's try to explain to those who may not have been aware or want to understand why the usual invitation of a veteran of the galician division to the parliament of canada turned into such an international scandal that caused the resignation of the speaker of the parliament and the prime minister's own apology, is this history or

not after all, politics is also involved here, what should be understood? well, i think, first of all, the factor of ignorance plays a role here. actually, one of the ifs, the speaker of the house of commons, anthony rota, would have been aware of that. the invited guest was a military serviceman, a volunteer nazi unit, of course he wouldn't have invited him, and of course there wouldn't have been this whole situation, actually, the situation should have been exhausted after the apology of anthony rotta's resignation, because it's a very , well, a bad situation, a bad incident, but of course, the russians and many, excuse me, useful idiots, spread this story and demand something from ukraine, and here ukraine itself, if the government of canada and the parliament of canada apologized to ukraine for this, well , incomprehensible situation, yes, they are trying

to heat up and disperse this scandal again in the second time, well, accordingly, for me, for example, it is not clear, the question, in fact , after the apology of rota's resignation, should be exhausted in terms of international and communication, but not exhausted in terms of measures, raising the awareness of people in general about what the second world war is. war, what units were there, what happened there, and so on. mr. anton, well, publicly , indeed, the ukrainian side did not comment on this story , in your opinion, should the ukrainian ministry of foreign affairs and the ministry of foreign affairs, for example, react in some way and at least conditionally repeat the thesis that after apologies there, the speaker of the parliament of canada and the prime minister, this situation is exhausted, and how will your institute respond, you are talking about awareness, maybe there will be some kind of launch, i don't know, an international additional program that will inform about what it really is sss halychyna, and listen to kipyani, that for ukrainians there was not one evil in the second world war, but two, and not everyone knows about it, er, look, in my personal opinion, the mmz

should not have reacted to this, the government canada apologized to the government through diplomatic channels of ukraine, and any comment from our side, well, this is, to put it mildly, well, additionally, additionally, the allies put themselves in an uncomfortable situation, they apologized in this situation and suffered great... potential losses, and it seems to me , it is not very wise, again this question is raised at the diplomatic level, even more so at the level of the ministry of foreign affairs, regarding educational programs, well, in recent years the institute had practically no funding for the implementation of projects, and unfortunately, there our useful initiatives with research, in particular research on the world war, there, for example, ours, we are there at one time, at one time together with uku published a book about which... context, for example, of the nazi occupation and life there, for example andriy sheptytskyi in the nazi occupation, yes, that is, precisely on such painful topics.

if next year the parliament finally restores at least partial funding of these key programs, we will of course support research, and i see that, for example, support for research into the real situation with the participation of ukrainian military personnel in nazi units, but this is also an important story, to things, i want to emphasize that many people are starting to spread the story that the sss halychyna division is fighters for the independence of ukraine, this is not true, according to ukrainian law, they are not fighters for the independence of ukraine, moreover, it is a nazi the unit, which was voluntarily recruited from the people who carried out the tasks of the third reich, most of the battles of this unit were not on the territory of ukraine, so all the stories about the struggle for the freedom of ukraine, well, it simply does not correspond to the historical realities, battles... in slovakia, in austria, in germany , according to the independence of the will of ukraine, look somehow very strange, that's why, but next to that, if i'm not mistaken, the ukrainian courts, according to their decisions, the symbols

of the galicia division are not either, is not considered prohibited in ukraine, because it is not considered nazi, that's right, look, this is not about symbolism, this is about honoring a person who participated in the second world war on the side of the nazis, that's all, that's why this is an incorrect situation , and you know if there was a discussion about symbols, we would talk with you about the fact that it is not incorrect to use the symbols of the emblem, for example, the lion by itself, it can be used without any problems, but the lion with three crowns, this is the emblem of the nazi subdivision of ussiv, mr. anton, that is, let's just summarize, if, for example, the parliament allocates, at least partially , the funds that you say are necessary for the institute to fully carry out its activities, then it will be in this direction, in particular, certain directions of your employees, you personally, in order to inform even more, as it turns out, not only the international community, but also ukrainians, because not everyone in ukraine fully understands what the sss galicia is, what they did, and so on.

yes, obviously, we will plan for the next budget year e activities dedicated to informing about the events of the world war , in particular, about the military units of the world war in order to make clear, in fact , this situation, which has become this big scandal, is only part of the problem, the matter is because in the diaspora, divisionalists, enjoy great piety, because well , after the second world war, the vast majority of them started a completely new life and adapted completely legally into the systems of the united states itself. to canada and well there is the dashen commission that was mentioned, they really did not find any crimes against them, and accordingly, they are quite reputable people, but the fact of serving in the division in itself is not a reason for pride, well here, in fact, it is very difficult , controversial historical issues, and attempts to make some kind of great piety out of it, or heroization this fact, or, for example, the justification of the symbols or the emblem of the sss halychyna, well, this

actually... speaks of ignorance of the historical context, insensitivity, lack of empathy for the victims of the national regime, and this is very not even so fundamental, whether it participated in any punitive actions, well, this is actually a debatable, historical question, but it is also a fact that they served hitler until the end, it was one of the most well-organized volunteer units, they did not lay down their arms after the battle at the fords, and did not go home or went to upa, by the way, upa categorically urged not to go. accordingly, these people followed the nazis and were hitler's allies to the last until 1945. this is actually not the only historical misunderstanding somewhere, in which there are different sides, different visions, what do you think, how should we deal with such stories at the diplomatic and political levels, so that they do not harm, for example, cooperation between countries and perception by one and others. perhaps history should be left to historians, as is often

said, or more informed. so that everyone understood what was really happening. well, history is not, it will not be possible to leave it to historians , as long as politicians try to play with history, and accordingly, if someone tries to invite a person there for a nice gesture, to appeal to the historical context, this someone should consult with professional historians, not only to listen to some advisers who, to put it mildly, did not inform about all the circumstances, but present which ones, and until ... politics will use history without real knowledge history, there will be big problems, it will already be like this, you know, semi-her propaganda, so the key conclusion here is that this incident shows that it is necessary to inform the world more and to inform our own citizens more about the events of the world war, but not to do it, you know, as convulsive reactions, to rush, because it will be used again, or as attempts to justify the sss of galicia, or the attempts of ukraine.

to excuse myself, mr. anton, i'm interrupting, because we literally have 20 seconds, i want to ask another question, the russian federation, how is it the process can be politicized and used to their advantage, in fact, literally 20 seconds, well, as you say in the plot, they take photos, tell them what they are seeing, they blow everything to the settlers, the ukrainians are nazis, the west is nazis, and in general, neo-nazism is everywhere , they are all in white, so it is necessary to be very wise about such events, to consult with specialists before such a thing is arranged, it will reduce the amount of anger. and shame for these people themselves and for all participants in the process. i thank you for finding the opportunity join the broadcast. anton drubovych, head of the ukrainian institute of national remembrance, a serviceman of the armed forces of ukraine, about the situation that happened in the canadian parliament with the commemoration of a veteran of the sss halytchyn. the hour of the broadcast passed quickly, there were many topics, who joined us at the end, you can scroll through the broadcast. i thank you for being with us, subscribe to radio svoboda's youtube channel, and take care,

see you soon. already on monday it's 10 o'clock on the clock, it's time to find out what 's happening in ukraine and the world at this time khrystyna parubiy works in the studio. 300 million dollars to support ukraine, the house of representatives of the us congress voted for the allocation of these funds, they will be transferred from the defense budget, reports politiko. the money was taken out of the draft us defense budget and voted separately for its approval. congressmen also passed a bill on defense spending of $826 billion. but the democrats are afraid that the allocation of aid to ukraine by a separate draft law will be presented

by russian... propaganda as a rejection of