carefully observe the behavior of your pets. good evening. we are from ukraine. glory to ukraine, this is the verdict program. my name is serhiy rudenko, i greet everyone and wish everyone good health. today in the program. revenge for destroyed energy. in russia. an electric substation in korsk caught fire due to a drone strike. the occupiers must withdraw from the zaporizhzhia nuclear plant, what does the resolution of the general assembly on the immediate return of the armed forces to the control of ukraine mean and how to implement it. containment aid why the west is not ready to collapse of russia and how it affects the course of the war. putin again bet on wagner. pmk fighters returned to ukraine, and. the leader forms

friends. we will talk about this and other things during the next hour with our guests, former deputy of the state duma of the russian federation ilya ponomarov and people's deputy of ukraine sofya fedina. for those who are currently watching us live on youtube, we offer a survey, today we ask you this, do you support the legalization of weapons in ukraine? yes, no, or yours option, please write in yours. well , before we start our conversation with ilya ponomarov, let's see how cotton was burning today in russian corsica, something is starting.

it's just a tin, it's just, it's all burning, the firemen have just arrived, i want to invite our first guest to the conversation, this is ilya panomarov, former deputy of the state duma of the russian federation, mr. ilya, good evening and welcome to our broadcast. good evening, zelensky reported that ukraine joined the magathe council, and what resolution was praised by this international organization. we will say after

we hear what zelensky said about the magathe council and russia's participation in this organization. there is also a result at the magate site. ukraine became a member of the board of governors of this organization, the international atomic energy agency. and this not only emphasizes our international security role, but also gives ukraine real opportunities to influence the adoption of the ri. which are mandatory for all members of the iga, for the entire international community. we will do everything to implement the first point of our peace formula, nuclear and radiation safety, and to guarantee the complete liberation of our zaporozhye nuclear plant. and so the general assembly of the magat adopts a resolution regarding the occupiers of the russian occupiers who are at the zaporizhia as, and calls for their immediate return. zaporizhzhya is under

the control of ukraine, russia must leave there. mr. ile, what will happen if russia does not leave there, and the resolution of the magathe, the international organization that monitors the peaceful atom, will not be fulfilled? well, i think it's pretty obvious that no one is going to squirm, and that's all that's needed to knock it out, this is not a possible way, well, when it happens, well, of course, there will be a restoration of the work of this nuclear plant, which is huge in europe. well, magat, in this case the sanctions against rosatom may have an effect, we know that this organization is engaged in the construction of nuclear power plants both in europe and in turkey, two power plants, one is being completed, one is planned to be built, we do not see sanctions yet... effective against

rosatom, and therefore it is clear that it is not clear to russia what motivation they should have for leaving zaporizhzhia as, if they can. against rosatom and cancellation of contracts for the construction of nuclear power plants, still force russia to withdraw from zaporizhzhya npp and leave an important strategic object of ukraine? well, first of all, i believe that it is very unlikely that it will affect rosatom's policy, because it will be done not within rosatom itself, but within rosatom itself, within the kremlin. and there is an occupied territory , a nuclear power plant is located on this occupied territory, that's all, let's work there, secondly, i believe that it is very unlikely that the international community will apply any

there are effective sanctions against russia, because a lot of things are interconnected there, and the supply of uranium from the russian federation to various countries of the world and very influential countries of the world is quite continuous, i believe that they will not risk the supply shortages, as we see now , prosatam tries to do everything possible to look, well, at least decent there, and they allow inspections by the magat at the nuclear plant, well, but of course everything is done and in their own way and the nuclear danger does not decrease, it increases much there at least sometimes. mr. illa, well, we see during the last year and a half, as the world watches the nuclear blackmail, nuclear terrorism of the russian federation, it is not the first time

that russia and the state seize other people's nuclear power plants, threaten the whole world, nuclear. which before that was an ordinary peaceful atom, in your opinion, how the security system in the world should change from now on, well, that is, it can happen in any other country, some neighboring country or group of people calmly seizes a nuclear power plant, threatens to land it in air, mines, i.e. in the performance of the same taliban or others organizations, obviously the participant... and the initiators of this terrorist act would simply be destroyed, well, first of all, other countries simply do not believe that russia will use the zaporizhzhia nuclear plant and any other nuclear plants there, as

actually nuclear weapons, they understand that even, well, real nuclear weapons, yes, atomic bombs , even they are... safer in terms of radiation safety than nuclear plants, well, the example of chernobyl, it says a lot, and if they will used, then the entire area around the zaporizhia nuclear plant station, she will not be able to live there for many years to come, and that is why they simply do not believe in it, they believe more in what can happen there, some accident, there, something, something unexpected, something unexpected, not calculated , and that a nuclear disaster could occur because of this, but they simply do not believe that russia would do it there deliberately, and they need to be convinced that now the enemy is one

that can do anything, a few days ago, the minister of defense of the russian federation , serhiy shoigu, at the collegium of the ministry of defense of russia, declared about what they plan to complete the so-called svo by 2025, that is, from two to three days to three years, what do you think this means two more years ahead, which they predict and plan to fight in ukraine, eh, will it be enough do they have the resources and, most importantly, opportunities for this? well, this forecast sounds like it used to, because no one knows what will happen there in the 25th year , it is not clear what will happen to putin, what will happen to shaigu, what will happen to the army, what will happen to russia in general, and precisely that's why they say about it, well , one day, one day, it will end, but

no one knows, does not know when, i believe that more and more representatives of the russian elite, they understand that only a change of power, only a change of this regime, is the only way to end the war. even, a complete military defeat on the territory of ukraine, there is the liberation of the territory of ukraine, in case putin stays. at the head of the russian federation, if at all the russian federation will be preserved in the way it exists now, then the war will continue, well , the front line will simply be along the border, and the missiles will fly, that is, only changes of power , it is not clear what will happen to russia in 2025, but it is possible to diagnose what is happening in russia now, how would you characterize the current state of the russian federation today?

yes, they are all greedy there now, they are just waiting for what will happen next, there, ordinary citizens, they simply do not believe that they can influence the situation in any way, but even the elites also do not understand that they can do it now, and they are there, waiting for the americans to force ukraine to sit down at the table negotiations and end this war, they no longer believe in the victory of russia, but they are not yet fully convinced of the defeat, of the defeat of their country, they still hope that there will be some kind of collective measure, it will put pressure on ukraine and we will come to some kind of compromise let's get there, well, they don't understand that it's impossible. if in moscow they are waiting for the western powers to convince ukraine that

they need to give in to russia, then of course we are waiting for the west and the nato countries to somehow speed up the fall of the putin regime. so, according to your observations and yours feelings, do the western powers, the russian federation, want defeat, and if so, in what form? it is clear that no one wants ukraine to lose, and does the west want russia to lose, well, you say it correctly , no one wants ukraine to lose, but no one understands, what is the defeat of russia, what will happen after , and everyone there is very worried because of this, because no one wants the disintegration of russia, because they believe that if there is an investigation, then china will be there, the east will take over, it will not be there, it is not clear what will happen to nuclear weapons, they

they are not even afraid of many new nuclear countries there, they are afraid that the nuclear devices themselves will spread around the world, that is the main factor of danger, but the main thing is that it is just bureaucracy, these are ordinary bureaucrats, who are afraid to take risks, they want to help ukraine, which is taking risks, but they do not want to take any risk there, and ukraine is not saying anything now about how this war will end and some vision of the future, well, i think that in the future, and we are not talking about years, and about months, such a vision will definitely appear and then everything will be fine, regime change is the only thing that will suit

ukraine and it is the only thing that can stop the war. you mentioned china, their desire, or their future, which they see there in the east, in the far east of the russian federation, this thesis that the disintegration of russia, or the ungovernability of russia, will lead to the capture of part of the territories of the russian federation, which are rich in natural resources, and this can increase china's potential and make china much stronger than it is now there are, because there are many, resources that the russian federation, due to various reasons , cannot yet process in siberia, they can reach there, the chinese, what do you want anyway... the west is more afraid of the ungovernability of russia as such,

nuclear weapons, which are not clear where they will end up and in whose hands, or indeed the strengthening of china, but if you could put it first, second and third, how would you rank these fears, well, look, first of all i want to say , to make it clear, i believe that all these fears are delusions, that they are self-inflicted explain why they do not take a more open and more active position, but if , well, actually set priorities, then for sure the number one will be nuclear weapons, nuclear proliferation, proliferation of nuclear devices, and secondly, it will be china, but the strengthening of china, it can happen not only through the seizure of territory, but simply through economic influence, and economic influence , of course, if russia will be weak at all, then

china's influence on siberia and further... the east, of course, it will be stronger, here you just have to, you have to make certain advantages there, advantages there with japan, there with south korea, there with others, mr. illa, and what do you think can accelerate the finalization of the russian-ukrainian war, but in the direction of ukraine, of course, because moscow also wants the finalization of the russian-ukrainian war, but of course, they have the main requirement that the new territorial reality be recognized in ukraine in the world. that ukraine does not have prospects in nato, if we take the finalization of the russian-ukrainian war on the part of ukraine, what are the measures that can accelerate this finalization, long-range weapons, the expulsion of the occupiers from crimea, or domestic political situation in russia itself? well, of course, there are any internal political changes in russia, they

will be greatly accelerated due to certain military ... defeats there, and i believe that when the ukrainian army is in crimea, this will be the beginning of fundamental changes in the russian federation, but if there are no changes in the russian federation, then the war will not stop, and that is why it is necessary to create, first of all, a political alternative, to create it, in the middle of ukraine, in europe, to demonstrate to the elites that what will happen instead putin, and for this political alternative to be pro-ukrainian, of course, pro-winners , and secondly, to create and settle a force that can put military pressure on russia, and this is exactly where the legion of freedom of russia and other russian units that will be part of

the ukrainian army , but which can affect the situation inside. over the past year and a half. i have seen and observed many forums of the russian opposition, they were different forums, some accept you, some do not , some you accept, some you do not you see, it is very difficult to understand in general who the opposition is in russia, whether it exists at all, and whether russia without putin is even possible , well, there was once such an action, ukraine without kuchma, but what can russia be without putin, because he is right next to us . there is an obsessed neighbor, he is killing us, he wants to destroy our state, it is not clear, we need to understand, and what to do with this obsessed neighbor, well, look, first, the opposition there can only be those who hold weapons, who support those who hold weapons and who use these weapons, everything else

the opposition simply does not exist, because well, the forums are this, this, this is not about anything, uh, but after the change of power takes place, of course you need to have a vision and exactly what you said, you need to have a vision of the future country that will be safe, friendly, which will be de-imperialized, in which there will no longer be colonies , and which will be part of the international community, it must be created, and this is exactly what we are doing now, a congress of people's deputies, as this political alternative, which new laws are made, new rules of the game inside russia, legion of freedom of russia, which is the same military unit, the partisan movement in the middle of russia, which is changing the government, you already mentioned crimea and we started talking about it, in 2014, in

an interview with radio liberty, you said that russian crimea will be and what. crimea is part of russia and i am you, i am you, i am quoting you, i am sorry, we, you said this, i believe that crimea should be part of russia, that it is russian land, i have no doubts, not about the legitimacy of the last referendum, well, that is, these are your quotes from rfe/rl, maybe i'm wrong, maybe radio svoboda is wrong, no, the first sentence, it's not mine, it, it, someone, someone added, i'm there for sure. the exact quote was that crimea probably wants to be a russian territory there, but now international law has been violated, that if a real referendum and everything else were created there, then it could be taken into account, but now that it is impossible, here this was the full quote that i said then

, well, there would be certain illusions, of course, there , everyone, everyone thought that there was actually some kind of movement there, i lived there inside russia, then there it is clear that this is not true, but the fact that crimea is ukraine, well, it is so... i had no doubts in any way, so they misquoted you, because i read it today, i voted against it, against alexi, of course, this means that there was a position, it was thought out, i took a huge risk from that point of view, precisely because i believed that crimea was ukrainian, and i had no such doubts, can you say now, that crimea is putin's achilles' heel, and the more on this achilles' heel. the ukrainians beat, the more they they desacralize putin in russia itself, because in russia putin is a king, a god, there is also a man who multiplies territories and a collector of lands,

well, of course, he started this war, and he sacralized this, this event, there is a return to his native harbor , as he said there, and that is why the loss of crimea. of course, that this is in the eyes of the russians and in the eyes of the russian elite, it will determine that the war is ultimately a program, that is very important, it will necessarily affect his fate, that is, you still predict that russia will remain with what she will be simply expelled from the crimean peninsula, well, in some medium-term perspective, it is difficult to talk about it now, but that crimea will be ukrainian and the russian occupiers will simply flee from there, as during any war the occupiers fled into the sea and sink

their ships there, what is this the scenario will repeat itself, i am sure that crimea will return to ukraine, and i am also sure that crimea will return to ukraine before donbas returned there, when putin began the invasion on february 22. he actually signed this sentence, and if it is possible there was there to talk about some kind of compromises, transitional periods, all that other stuff, but now, it's out of the question, and crimea will definitely be lost to russia and will return to ukraine. yesterday, mr. illa, tokayev, the president of kazakhstan was in berlin, during a meeting with olaf scholz. said that kazakhstan supports the decision of the eu regarding sanctions against the russian federation for its aggression against ukraine and will not allow them to be bypassed, today he

assured that his country firmly adheres to the course of comprehensive cooperation with moscow, and is not anti-russia, here is what tokayev said yesterday, can we say that sidjin pin spoke through tokayev's mouth, i believe that probably not , kazakhstan has always had a three-vector foreign policy, one vector was cooperation with russia, the other was cooperation with china, and the third will cooperate with the west, first of all with the united states, and this was a tradition that was laid by nazarbayev, and tokayev continues it, that is, they will not actually create sanctions against russia there, but bypass these sanctions through kazakhstan , they will too

to try, well, i think it is fair to try so that this does not happen, they do not want to put themselves at risk, they do not want to put at risk the foreign investments that kazakhstan receives and on which they depend, and of course china, china will be for them whatever the outcome of this war, if russia wins, then they will go to taiwan and, well, it will be with impunity, of course, and if russia loses, then they, as we have already discussed with you, they will increase their influence very important natural resources of siberia, and they are also interested in this, well, in your opinion, but putin will point out that takayev gave kazakhstan oil to the germans, and russia is losing this market, and it is clear that for putin he simply has no other choice.

how to accept this, because tokayev is one of the members of the csto and, in general, of the entire post-soviet space, who gravitates towards putin, or at least communicates with him in some way and creates this illusion of international relations, close international relations, putin simply had no other way out, if this was there three or four years ago, well, probably russia would have included much more opportunities to curb it tokaeva, well, putin formulated this principle a long time ago. he likes it in russian, he doesn't like it, she's tolerant and beautiful, well, what else will he have left, well, he can't start a new war now, even a trade war with kazakhstan, he has huge problems there with one front, to create, create new, now there, as soon as he lost armenia there, he will also lose all of central asia, because the loss... for kazakhstan

, this will mean the loss of all of central asia simply from a geographical point of view, so will endure, more, more nothing remains. today, putin was shown in a video where he talks to the former chief of staff of the wagner group, retired colonel andrii troshev, and he instructs him to form two volunteer units. as it was, at the last meeting we talked about the fact that you will deal with the formation of volunteer units that can perform various combat tasks, first of all, of course, in the zone of special military operations, you yourself have fought in such unit, you know what it is, how it is done, you know, the questions that need to be solved in advance so that the combat...

in the image, well, troshev knows exactly how it ended for his predecessors, his predecessors in wagner, and yours, putin's efforts to once again create some informal, or let's say, extra-military structures , why is he constantly drawn to the creation of such structures, he finances them anyway from the state budget, the world has long known that you... this is part of a large system, he still trying to imitate there are some volunteers, some volunteer corps, he pours billions of rubles or dollars there, what is this for him, no, well, he has now appointed the chief liquidator, it is not that wagner will continue to exist there, there was the deputy minister of defense of russia, that is,

this the procedure... of liquidation, transfer of property, transfer of people, and ensuring that vagdar never recovers, this is exactly what mr. troche will do, this is not the preservation of wagner, on the contrary, that is, you mean that the story with wagner is simply on the decline ended and on the fact that they simply began to torture the eyes of the cemeteries in concrete, the wagnerites who died in ukraine, just to erase them from history, in russia, of course, they will try to forget it and forget the very memory of it, and prigozhon was a man, who had a lot of trust in mr. putin, and putin, there entrusted certain very important tasks, to mr. prigozhin, there is no such person now, no one has passed him, and he is the people. no person is unknown to

putin himself, that is, he will have an exclusively military role there, so that all those people which have at least some value there for the military, so that they integrate into the ministry of defense, and that's all, that's exactly what he will do, thank you, mr. ilya, for your participation in the program, it was ilya ponomarov, a former deputy. state duma of the russian federation. friends, we are working live on telekanaluso, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms, for those who are currently watching us live on youtube. please take part in our vote, today we ask you about whether you support the legalization of weapons in ukraine, yes, no, or your option, please write in the comments below this video, this is important for us to know, because the secretary of the national security and defense council,