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every week, the saturday political club helps to understand the processes taking place in ukraine and the world. vitaly portnikov, host of espresso and invited experts, give based on facts his assessment and forecast of the development of events. if you want to understand how our today will affect our tomorrow, watch the saturday political club, every saturday on espresso. hello, this is svoboda ranok, an informational project of radio svoboda. top guests every day. this is the shipping district, kherson. turn on live. we are somewhere in the vicinity of bakhmut. we tell the main thing. on weekdays at 9:00.

we continue to talk about the most important things on the air of the tv channel, and as promised, we are now talking about neighboring and friendly poland, which is preparing for elections, which is preparing for a large-scale anti-government march, i don't know whether it will be a protest, whether it will be a rally, it will definitely be a million hearts march , this action will be called, and in general about the mood in the country, mareks iran, polish expert, journalist and our colleague , a good friend of the tv channel, marika, congratulations, glory of ukraine. i salute you and have a good day, marek, i actually wanted to ask, will you go to this march yourself, or how? of course, of course, of course, i will definitely be there with my friends, because i believe that politics, which is led by law and justice, is so inside poland, as well as outside, that is, among others, to our neighbors from ukraine, is not a desert

, well, but in this case, the closer to the elections, which are two weeks away, we see that, well, here i am not even now it is difficult to say who brought the situation to a boil, whether it was piss, played in the elections, or it was our dangerous intellectuals who proved a situation that could be solved calmly, with an economic discussion behind the scenes, as they normally do, the ministry of agrarian policy of agriculture , governments , sit down, something they say, no, bring it to a boiling point with exchanges, already completely undiplomatic statements from both sides and then with some attempts to apologize undiplomatically, well, divide the wheat and the chaff, and explain where our dangerous intellectuals broke the firewood, and where is the real peace politics and the election campaign in poland?

and i want to say, while i evaluate who is to blame here, i want to say one thing that i don't see it that way in reality, not that dialogue, but conversations, because this dialogue can be conducted with any state, on the outside, ugh, and when you call, i am talking about our intellectuals here now, on the other side of the border, on which i am now, and this is how you call someone... a friend, moreover, you call him a brother, you are with him, you do not sit at the table , you don't talk, it's not that you conduct a dialogue, you don't talk behind him, moreover, you call him a strategic partner, well, it's di, oh , it's strange, it sounds so strange that my ears hurt, and i'm going to be cruel here, er, i will give a harsh assessment of poland, why poland, ukraine also has something, there is something to say about ukraine too. but there is a small difference that has here

great importance, poland is not waging a war, and ukraine is waging a war for survival, and all that. such statements, which our politicians, i would say, made precisely during the election campaign , are unacceptable, although from their point of view i understand them, because it is right to play on emotions, because we all understand that it is never an election campaign in the campaign of programs, but just emotions and sometimes it even happens that it is a beauty contest a little bit, ugh, uh, and here we want to get such emotions and we get them, that is, law and justice are all does the right thing for his electorate, er, but from the point of view of the existence of the state, from the point of view of our relations, relations, strategic partner, er, in relations with

our partners from the west, including with the germans and the united states , but that's it, i would say, there's a lot you can do here, as you might say, use football stuff, a slogan , a red card can be shown several times, a few months ago we talked to various experts about the election process in israel, it was interesting, so that then we talked about the fact that each of the forces that now competes, tries, you know, to harness, to take ukraine's support into the topic, and it was rhetorical, so it was articulated very clearly with rhetoric. now we are observing that in the election processes, in particular in our neighbors , many people are trying to take, normal, natural fatigue

from the war on the continent, the formula of playing, let's stop supporting them, let's work for ourselves, this is now considered the best technology , are no longer competing for those who support ukraine more, are actually leaving competition for, a part of the people and the electorate, who are tired simply of the process of hostilities on the continent, somewhere nearby and all the accompanying phenomena, and i very much understood your provocative, but i want, but i want, but i want, i want to say one thing, eh, yes it is such people who are tired, the ones who don't have anyone close to them are always the most tired, they are not always the most tired, but uh, there is such a thing that in some moments, her right and justice - you know, in fact, polish society left it

alone on one with, with help for ukraine, with help for refugees, moreover, did not want and did almost nothing to get, for example, funds for this from the european union, although they are available as they are now, but some conditions must be fulfilled, they did not mind, even as things unfolded and full-scale aggression against ukraine, meeting with the countries of putin's right-wing allies in the whole of europe, it didn't stop them, that's why part of their electorate... is quiet, but so in fact, how to say that it was not at all against ukraine, convinced of supporting ukraine , i told someone in one of the broadcasts on ukraine, that law and justice, that is, the ruling party will love

ukraine only until the moment when it will have political benefit from them, and i was not mistaken, unfortunately, but i would like to be mistaken, and eh, and this is now, as you can see now, er, that is, everything was clear even before that full-scale invasion, look how the party of law and justice behaved before the full-scale invasion, and then when they saw how the poles marched en masse out of the need of their hearts to help ukraine and the ukrainian front, in that number of also, they suddenly changed their position and ignited their love for ukraine, i really... i remember them well, how they behaved before that, and uh, and unfortunately, uh, now we are returning to the so-called normality , because it was, and it can be seen, it was an artificial state that they created, moreover, they also understand one

thing, that they cannot go against ukraine completely, because it is a polish walkie-talkie of the state, ugh, and about that too we are told by the allies from the west e. but law and justice will actually play in the way it plays, the bagpipes will that good policeman, the moravian skaczynski is a slightly worse policeman, and even there he will say yes, yes, our partners, our relations, let's be friends, let's not do this or that, and the moravian will say something completely different, because moravian they mostly listen inside poland, and they listen to duda, actually just outside , such is his role in the polish state that he is not as strong a person as he is in terms of powers, like the ukrainian one, for example , the president, well, the president is much weaker in

laws, that is, here and him, his role is more of such an arbiter or, i would say, even a person who, er, represents or tells about and means a good polish name on the international arena, namely in poland, well in poland simply the president, as he is the commander-in-chief of the armed forces, as he has influence on who will be a possum somewhere abroad, can draft some law, can sign it or postpone it to the constitutional tribunal and that's all. mr. marko, we have, let's say, an ordinary ukrainian voter, whose main problem now is war and survival, less generally follows politics, but let's say this, even in peacetime, let's say that ukrainians were well aware of the specifics of the political system and parties, well, they are political scientists from poland,

polish, and that's why in this case i wanted to to ask you, you know, there are very similar certain moments in history, electoral recent history, when we watched a tv series, then elected the party in power, or how they played in the previous campaign, the dog played into various fears, deep people. political history and everything else, well, there are some moments that are very similar, but now there is a very interesting moment , the circumstances inside and outside poland have changed, and the number of scandals that now accompanies this election campaign is fantastic, which is worth only the visa, in particular, yes and we see that only thanks to the four years there and the war, maybe the brains have started to sober up... the voters who said that it seems that we will not vote with emotions, so now poland is also

a turning point, or even in spite of all these scandals keep chances to stay the party in power, there is obviously a chance because they control the state television completely, uh, uh, there is almost no information, there is such propaganda that nothing bad happens, it will be... tusk constantly, and i want to tell you one thing , law and justice is a very serious player, namely yaroslav kaczyński, his not his leader, the real leader, and so actually the real prime minister, although he is the deputy prime minister, uh, eh, but he controls the back seat of the engine room and tells the driver to go there and to the left, there to the right, go to the right, go directly and so on.

therefore, he is a very, very, very good player of politics and law and justice, he has a very solid electorate, which after 8 years was moved through the state television itself and several television stations , as well as between others or also zmi, which were bought by the state, by the way, union, i.e. the orllen company. which sells fuel , which is the state monopolist in the fuel market, and they bought many regional media, regional newspapers, regional radio, er, radio stations, and this propaganda pours, pours, pours, and that is, say whatever please, this is your only informational marathon, it is cooler than what we have in ukraine now, no, we don't have such luck, here. there is no such thing, but if

you look at the state television tvp, you could say that it is somewhat similar, and at times it even drags on a little further, in our case it is because of the war, and in your case it has been a normal state for some time , yes , in the norm, in our country, i would say, this is not a normal state, but it has become the norm, er, so, ah, regarding programs and whether people will talk... mind blowing, oh, i i'm afraid that unfortunately, no, er, but this, but i always tell my friends, let's, let's... work according to the principle, as mark twain once said, that power should be changed often, just like underwear and from the same , for the same reasons, so briefly and very briefly, there is little time left, to what extent society in general is polarized at the sweat level now, perhaps charged with this kind of politics in poland,

does this prevent coexistence for everyone, they will be counted in the elections, of course. when everyone is very polarized, divided, and i would say almost fifty-fifty, uh, so until the very end , we will not understand who wins the elections, whether the pro-democratic coalition of several political parties is united among others with a coalition of people and a platform, ee public, and we will see how it will be, chiva and justice from the ob "united by right-wing forces, as they say, and everything will be here ... it will be unclear until the very end, and the polarization is very strong , and when you are divided, you yourself understand, we saw it and observed it, both in ukraine and and in other countries, and in poland, the same, the same when you are divided, when there is not one body , when we do not all work together for the result of the state, the state, and not everyone pulls

the blanket in their own direction, but sooner or later that blanket will tear, yes, that is. we all understand that this will not lead to good either in poland , in ukraine, or in any other country, but for starters, very briefly, just one short recipe, how to give this recipe to ukrainian politicians so that they didn't stick their dirty fingers and five kopecks into the election campaign in poland for two weeks, tell me to them, as it says, to speak with one and with others, to speak and maintain contact with one and with others, this is how it should always be done. er, moreover, even, not with one and with the second, but there are still such, you know, third players, such as, for example, a new party that appeared soon, it is called the third road, there is also the psl, that is, the people's party joined her, eh, and a lioness who is also growing up, left-wing forces, but very pro-ukrainian,

we need to keep in touch with everyone we need to talk to, thank you for the recipe, marek syryn, polish expert, journalist for a colleague, we we are taking a short break, and we will look at the place where he promises that he should light up, the caucasus and not only, yes, stay with us, antwerp shakhtar on megago, in the matches with the belgian champion, the miners need to score maximum points. on october 4 at 19:45, cheer for the victory of shakhtar, turn on the champions league, exclusively, there is a cough, there are discounts on mukal 15% in podorozhnyk pharmacies, bam taushka, there are discounts on vooltar forte and voltaren emul, 20% in podorozhnyk pharmacies, bam and saving join the community with a ukrainian view of the world, become one a sponsor of the youtube channel, which is access to

exclusive content. personal thanks, fix it. comments, special icons and the possibility of personal communication with the espresso team. click sponsor and become part of the community with a ukrainian perspective. vitaly portnikov is with you and we are talking about the main events of this week. vitaly portnikov and top experts about the most vivid events of the last seven days. our guest will be the lieutenant general of the ground forces, the former national security advisor of the president of the united states, donald trump. herbert mcmaster. current topics, pressing questions, authoritative comments and forecasts in the information marathon project with vitaly portnikov, every sunday at 20:10 on espresso. every day, every hour, every minute we receive a large amount of information. the most anticipated event of the year, which is actually happening on the front.

what are the losses of personnel and equipment on the battlefield. how evaluates our successes. the international community and what moscow is lying about. from the flow of news coming from everywhere, we single out the most important ones. the world is watching closely to see if there will be weapons for ukraine and what kind, and what the russian occupiers are whispering about behind the commanders' backs. news summaries of the week are a review of only important events, important and reliable events. these are analytics, fact-checking, professional comments. about this and much more in today's issue. about important, in simple language, available for. congratulations, iryna koval is in the studio, and this is the summary of the week on the espresso tv channel. news, summaries of the week, every saturday at 21:00 on espresso. we continue to talk about the main events and trends not only in ukraine, but also in the world. we will remind that this week it became clear that

from january 1, 2024 , the unrecognized nagorno-karabakh republic will cease to exist. azerbaijan takes control of these territories, and all this is accompanied by an insane amount of local population leaving karabakh. and in fact, many of the analysts inside our country note that ukraine needs to observe how azerbaijan conducted this operation, as it was about restoring the territorial integrity of the country, because in principle we should expect something similar, i am not talking now about the reasons, yes, about the prerequisites, what is the conflict in karabakh, why armenians for azerbaijan. for so long they could not find a common language and still this is a very problematic issue, these are historical moments , we do not have such problems in our territory

, we have a problem of colonization, russification of our lands, in a completely unnatural way, by killing our population in the 20th century , through deportation of our population in the 20th century and repression of our population. century in certain ukrainian regions and the settlement of these territories by representatives of the great russian people, but one way or another, ukraine is, the ukrainian people are a political nation, we are a political nation, and we are looking for ways to successfully reintegrate these territories together with the people, let's ask you about it now, with us on communication director of the center of middle eastern studies, ihor simevolo. mr. igor, congratulations, glory to ukraine , congratulations, congratulations, to the heroes, glory, yes, mr. igor, we have been told many times that this is abkhazia's return of its territories, and this is not

only karabakh, there were other regions there, that it is yes, in azerbaijan he returned to himself in this way and showed us an example of how to do it, although at one time i had to talk with you, including about the croatian experience and their operation storm , operation storm. they also returned the so-called cotton territories in the style of the dnr, so now , looking at what is being done in the caucasus, what is closer to us as a recipe for the return and reintegration of our occupied territories, the croatian or the azerbaijani experience? well, you know, both experiences are worth learning, explore, take, elements, but you have to understand that each of these experiences has its own specifics. whom, and therefore, well, it’s probably not worth just taking it and applying it completely, yes, adapting it to

ukrainian realities, in my opinion, and the karabakh experience is interesting, starting from the 20th year, and it plays an important role here, strangely enough diplomacy, despite the fact that reintegration and the restoration of territorial integrity took place by force, as well as in croatia, where the military operation played a key role, but also based on diplomatic support from other countries, that is, in this case, what is important, it is important to have clear support, so that your partners, your allies, understand what you are doing and support these actions, and act accordingly, according to your plan, and tell me, sir

igor, the fact that 80% of the population of karabakh is now leaving it, well, at least, this is the data that we have, this is such a short announcement of what to expect and for us, in the case of the reintegration of our people, no, i do not think that we will have the same situation, because the majority, aa on the occupied the territories are inhabited by citizens of ukraine, despite the fact that the russians are trying to change the composition of the population, bringing there, their own , representatives of the russian world from the north caucasus, mostly to the occupied territories of zaporizhzhia, kherson, and luhansk and donetsk regions, but it must be understood that the majority the population of these regions, they support ukraine, they are waiting for the armed

forces of ukraine. and they will of course remain in this territory, since nothing threatens them, except the orcs, who are unfortunately still there, but those who came, those who bought apartments, those who took over these apartments, those who took over businesses, and those who came to crimea, and there, too, closer to the sea, from the 14th of that year, for them, of course, this example of karabakh must be very clear, and if we look at the region in general, in fact, can we say that finally , at least, russia has lost armenia, or can they still play the card of the opposition, which on the one hand is anti-russian, and on the other hand, would also like to continue such a right-wing bravura march on this territory , which i just returned azerbaijan, and can they

carry out... for example, a military coup in armenia and thus return all of armenia and not only the border, which the fsb of russia guards and the pipeline that gazprom controls? well, i don't think so, well, let's be more precise, come on, there were several questions, the first question was about, about whether russia has finally lost armenia, no, not yet, although armenia has been taking some imitative steps lately, really - the steps are obvious, directed in the direction of russia, i admit that, but russia can, of course, with its hands of the same opposition, pro-moscow, to topple pashinyan, using the state of the population in which the armenian people are now, in order to direct

their anger, their frustration, at kocharyan, they can do this, but for this they have to at least resources, organization, a clear understanding of what will happen next, and luckily they don't have all this, mr. igor, so we literally have two minutes left, i just can't help but remember, today is september 30, and in a republic recognized by few abkhazia celebrates the day of victory and independence, i.e they believe that they have defeated georgia, georgia lost the war for abkhazia, and what do you think the situation with karabakh and other parts of the caucasus shows? well, not yet, that is, you, if you mean georgia, then the georgian government continues to claim that they will reintegrate these territories peacefully, well, for now, this is the story, huh, that is, if georgia were to be

on the right side, conditionally saying, at least in the last few years, as azerbaijan did in the version with turkish, then it is possible would be to talk about something similar, and maybe about a similar operation in this direction, yes, if, well, yes, maybe, maybe, but we see that it did not happen, okay, good, but in general, if you look, well, azerbaijan for a long time and systematically developed the armed forces not according to the option, for a long time and systematically worked diplomatically, specifically for deep allied relations with turkey, regardless of the political game of erdogan and the like and so on, we understand how he played it correctly, aliyev in the geostrategic dimension, yes, in this case can anyone else in the caucasus somehow repeat this in the nearest future, that is , find an ally, strengthen themselves, and

actually play back the three-year expansion of the muscovites in the caucasus, are there any other such players? well, not yet, it will depend on what role ukraine will play in the future, yes, and what state russia will be in after the end of the war, no, well, we have the so-called guam, let's say this, well, we have guam - it's on paper so far and two doors in the center in kyiv, a sign, in fact, whatever, whatever should happen, so khrystyna remembered georgia, what would have to happen there for them to practically repeat their path , they were not bad and were moving until 2008, that is, there is a chance for them to win back politically, at least to change the government, yes, but so far i do not see any prospects that the government will changed, although next year there will be elections and it is quite possible that the situation will change.