[000:00:00;00] about the nagorno-karabakh republic, it is obvious that this is an illegitimate entity, about people who believed that these russian peacekeepers would guarantee their security, it turned out to be a complete delusion, nobody guaranteed anything to anyone, moreover, when six russian peacekeepers were killed, ilham gaidarovych called volodymyr volodymyrovyvych and told him, how do you know people about whom, well, she drowned, well , he listens to lies, there are some other topics, why are you bothering me, who is behind me, every day there in ukraine is dying, it is unknown how many people, i don't call anyone, well, that's it, eh, now aliyev , it's also a difficult situation, because by and large, we have to understand such a simple thing, it may sound strange, but ilham aliyev is a much more experienced and serious politician , than vladimir putin, well, first of all, he is from a better family, he was brought up by his father, a general of the state security service, and not some unknown person

. didn't run around the covered entrances, he is a typical child of the soviet elite with good strategic thinking, with an understanding of how to build politics, and in principle, well, what are we perhaps, it can be seen from all the events of recent years that he is a serious politician, of the authoritarian type, of course, and what should the son of heydar aliyev be like, that a great democrat does not happen like that, but with the ability to control the situation, analyze the situation. understand what the next step will be, and what he thinks, and i think that this is also clear, for some reason he thinks, and this is also a strange story, that he will seize karabakh, completely, establish control over it, and then create an attractive for the world model of existence of karabakh armenians in azerbaijan, and thus to everyone

it is possible to say utrenis, then you see, ugh, this is where they created p. this is where they called us, beasts and all that is the law, and we are a normal civilized country, but he did not take into account what he did before that, this blockade, that the armenians did not take humanitarian aid from azerbaijan help, that the people there lived in hunger, just so as not to take humanitarian aid from the azerbaijanis , that they were already the last, there, i would say, half a year, exactly years in such a surrounded fortress, really no, it is no longer a figurative meaning, uhu, and besides, i think that when you are in presidential palace and for you all this, all this politics is a game, you can not imagine the real level of hatred that exists between ordinary people, ordinary azerbaijanis and ordinary armenians, because you are talking to pashinyan here, huh, and you can talk not with poshinyan, and with whom else, and here are the normal conversations of civilized people

who sit on soft chairs and no one ... didn't shoot at anyone, well, maybe if he shot, well, that's what it is, did he give orders, that's politics , and for the common man, it's not politics, oh there is a tooth for a tooth, just a tooth for a tooth, absolutely sure, all the more so, this is the caucasus, and this question arises, now, when i talked to different azerbaijani experts before and after all this, they told me, well, you understand, we want armenians to live in a civilized azerbaijan, and indeed, azerbaijan has already offered to hold talks several times. it was precisely with the karabakh representatives of russia that they did not allow these negotiations to be held, by the way, also an interesting point, they all the time issued an ultimatum to this karabakh leader so that no there were no direct negotiations with azerbaijan, although , by the way, until robert kecheryan came to power, karabakh was generally part of this negotiation process, it was moscow that insisted that it be removed from there, it is not by chance, and in this situation, they

the first thing they did was invite them. russian delegation for negotiations in yevlakh, right? ugh. and they left. and then the second round of negotiations, and yesterday was the third in yevlach, and the question arises, what are they talking about now, that is, the people themselves are leaving karabakh, the armenians are leaving? so? no, they are not leaving, but they have left. we can clearly say that there is no armenian population on the territory of karabakh anymore. but now a good legal question arises. here is azerbaijan, indignant at what it believes. granted him, filed an international court against him, all that, but on the other hand, now, after this obvious and undoubted military and political victory of azerbaijan, legal processes are starting, the cards are now on the table in armenia, azerbaijan can speak, you know, and we wanted for these people to live, they lived in a separatist formation, and we wanted them to live like all normal citizens of azerbaijan, get

citizenship alive, will be protected. this distinguishes karabakh from the occupied territories of ukraine, these people were never citizens of azerbaijan, regardless, they were citizens of the soviet union and the azerbaijan ssr, which, like other former soviet republics, did not have a separate one. citizenship, it all started in 91 , but it is so, note bene, but the problem is different, armenia can say, but they blockaded these people, whom they consider citizens, they didn't let them leave even in ambulances, they arrested their leaders there now, they are this, they are that , it doesn't matter, people, the whole world still sees that all these people escaped completely, left completely to the last person. from that territory, that is, this plan, which was aliyev's plan, did not work, and putin's plan was precisely for them to leave and depose pashinyan, putin understood that they would leave, that is, there was a mismatch of interests here, because you will understand, aliyev

will get this territory, that territory which around karabakh, it is empty, karabakh itself is empty, the army can be stationed there, a meeting can be held. with former residents, stepan kertu, who is usually called khankendzit according to azerbaijani law, and he was called khankendzi by the way, this is the historical name of stepan kertsen , not some historical armenian name, he was called khankendzia, stepan kertsen in honor of stepan shaumyan, so what is this, this is a soviet name, but the point is not that they return there, well, somewhere in the soviet union, 20% lived 80% of azerbaijanis are armenians. historically, this is generally a russian city. the majority there were russians. this is a russian fortress. and other cities, no. shusha is a city with an azerbaijani-armenian population. there

it changed in terms of ratio, but it was like that. and in stepanka, that is, in khanking, russians lived first, then azerbaijanis, then more armenians. that's how it changed in the course of creation. karabakh, i'm only talking about the city, i'm not talking about the territory, so, well, these are the people who are heirs, or refugees themselves, or the refugees themselves, they may think that they will return there, but where, there is no infrastructure, there is nothing, everything is destroyed, plus , of course, you can settle in your apartment, if you have it, and if you don't have it anymore, you you live in someone else's apartment, but you know that you still live in a country that may be subject to some questions regarding property, people have documents there, they can apply to international courts, to the european court of human rights, etc. somewhere, azerbaijan will not go anywhere, it is not russia, that is

that's all, as much as aliyev really needed such a beautiful showcase, he got a completely empty territory, completely, those areas in which the azerbaijanis were liberated in the 20th year, they were basically almost deserted, and now completely, and now that this, that is, a huge territory, will be deserted. it is without people, plus another very important point, that the total number of 100 people, this means that there will be a humanitarian disaster of a certain type, let's see how ivan will dispose of it, but high-level talks have already begun about the need the introduction of sanctions against azerbaijan, it seems to me that the head of the committee is saying that. in the united states on military issues, i think that these voices will increase, ugh , because humanity has always, this too, could not be taken into account in baku, reacts very painfully to these

television images, and here it always arises in any western politician question, here we saw these unfortunate ukrainians, like at the stations, who were holding children's toys to themselves, and we introduced sanctions against russia. and now we see these armenians in the mountains, who do not cling to children's toys, they are definitely second -class people, simply because they lived in a self-proclaimed republic, but we wanted azerbaijan, we recognized that this is azerbaijan, we just wanted azerbaijan to solve it politically, when slobodan milosevic expelled the entire albanian population of kosovo from the territory considered by the whole world to be an integral part of serbia, and this population was the population of a self-proclaimed republic as illegitimate as nagorno -karabakh, what did the west do? bombed

military facilities in belgrade and other cities of serbia, because everyone was horrified by these refugee camps, i was in these camps in macedonia, it was terrible, but these people were legally citizens of self-imposed. republics that did not want to be and do not want to be, now we are again there on the threshold of a new war there, and do not want to be citizens of serbia, if sanctions are introduced against serbia in such a situation, what to do with azerbaijan. with full understanding that this is an internationally recognized territory of azerbaijan, i say once again, i think that baku did not want this, but it happened like this, but it happened, it happened, they could have foreseen it, i don't understand how anyone could think that karabakh armenians would stay there, because they are actually more anti-azerbaijani than armenians in armenia itself, armenians in

armenia itself. want to live in peace with azerbaijan , and they may not like it, but they need peace. karabakh times are a completely different population group, it always was, because here is also a good situation, put yourself in the place of azerbaijani leaders, you have in the soviet era, you have in your composition territory, mountain-kararabakhka. with the vast majority of the armenian population, you are the azerbaijani leader , and you don't really, you don't really like the connection of the population of this territory with neighboring armenia, what will you do to make this population become , shall we say, less loyal and less connected with armenia, well, maybe he will offer them something pleasant, from a purely civilizational point of view, they already live there, they are your citizens, there is your regional party committee, what can be done to make them less. tied to this

avirmen context, oh, it's hard to be politicians, well, you won't open an azerbaijani school there, you won't be able to teach them, well, providing them with everything they need doesn't work like that, it's not like that, i mean, so that they feel no less armenian from the point of view of communication with the residents of the neighboring area, it’s a few hours to go, well two, i’ll advertise there for a couple of hours, well less you, on the origin more pressure on citizenship and what azerbaijani i didn’t have, only now they offer to provide, well, what, you again, you can't make azerbaijanis if you open there azerbaijani schools, they begin to write complaints to the presidium of the supreme soviet of the ussr. how to make it so that they do not know their native language, literature, are not very interested in what to do? well, you appear, this is the soviet union, you are an internationalist, which you should be.

schools, well, russian, that’s right, they were there, i’m sorry, i was born after the collapse of the soviet union, but yes, it didn’t even occur to me, at first, really, you just open russian schools and that solves all issues, that's right, that's why in the soviet union, they were engaged in the russification of these armenians, no armenians, karabakh, in armenia itself, taking into account the fact that 90% of the armenian population was there, there were also 90. in these schools, they studied the russian language, and when they left school, they talked with their parents in which language, armenian, because this russian language for them was like english or french, they alternately spoke armenian among themselves, they spoke russian only in lessons, thus armenia differed from, relatively speaking, from

of conditional ukraine there, eastern or southern, you know, it was different in karabakh, generations of russian-speaking armenian population grew up there, and the leadership of the azerbaijan ssr was satisfied with this, but together with this, it later turned out that this, i would like to tell you, at the end of the 80s - at the beginning 90s, more soviet people, ugh, and this is also a huge problem that was not taken into account in baku, because when the independence of azerbaijan was declared, it started intensively. of the construction of the azerbaijani political nation, its own history, its own approaches, its own presidents, relations with turkey, everything began to develop from the moment when azerbaijan was occupied by the bolsheviks in the 20th year, well, what could have happened in korabas, just conservation in the soviet union, and not armenia, and not azerbaijan the russian peacekeepers did, the first thing they did in the 20th year, you know what, they started...' to open russian schools and demand the study of the russian language, because in

karabash after 1991, russian schools were closed, armenian schools were opened, as we can see, it did not suit them, they thought it is certain that they will be there longer, they have already started to make this civilizational revolution there, well, that is, now we are at this point, so azerbaijan and armenia are preparing for a peace agreement, it is hoped that on october 5 it will be... er, agreed, along with this, azerbaijan, which believes that it is in such a position of the winner in this history of the obvious, is also in a defensive position from the point of view of how they will react... to the exit of the armenians from karabakh, azerbaijan says that it does not expels, and calls armenians it is ethnic cleansing, it is already different views on the situation, and here it is important what view will be taken by the international community, plus, an important point is the very story with armenia

and with this corridor between azerbaijan and the disdain, because unexpectedly the president of turkey recep tayyipdogan after. said that if armenia does not want this corridor, it can go through iran, uh, that is, below , yes, well, by and large, this is a completely different schedule of the situation, because it suggests that turkey does not want to take any steps, which would question her respect for international law, president biden wrote a letter to pashinyan, that's all. dagan and aliyev, i say again, they are experienced people, they understand what this means, they simply read these signals, so it is clear that somewhere their opportunities stop, they may or may not, if armenia does not agree to the corridor, they may it should not be included in economic cooperation, but they cannot encroach

further on any of its interests, and then the question arises, who will be a partner in armenia in this situation, when azerbaijan and turkey become without their own will as guarantors of its territorial integrity, well, then the west can play its role, because then why is russia needed, russia has shown its complete inability, and this is also an obvious thing, and in this situation, of course, we have a completely different distribution of forces in the region, we still forget that there are still many players there, apart from russia, which continues to dream of punishment. there is iran, which is not interested in changing the status quo, that is, karabakh, well, of course, it is azerbaijan, and no one doubts it, and neither does iran doubts, but if we are talking about the sovereign territory of armenia itself, and azerbaijan takes a step forward, azerbaijan, which takes such a step, may think about

iranian azerbaijan tomorrow, and it is already dangerous, that is, the territorial status quo can, cannot be violated, yes that here and time can now finally play a completely different game, because armenia has been a hostage of karabakh almost from the first day of its independence. now it is a hostage not of karabakh as a territory, but of refugees from karabakh. it will be very important to understand how these people are adapting to the political life in the country, how it will generally develop after this crisis, but i never believed that the normal development of events in the region can take place without solving one or the other. i don't know if the final decision has been made, i'll say it again, a small note about the caucasus, today is the anniversary, what is called the day of victory and independence of abkhazia, they believe that they won in

the 90s, georgia, are they watching to the situation of these, formations, players, in the caucasus, what conclusions are they possible? have to bear you understand what the matter is, i think that russia overdid it, deceived itself, because when the leaders of abkhaz, south ossetia, or bridnister, or even crimea from donbas, see how the azerbaijani police detain the former state minister of the nkr, the so-called rubben verdanyan, a billionaire with huge connections in the world and other leaders of karabakh without such connections, they may ask themselves the question that we do not have billions of vardanon. we only have putin's support, and it turns out that putin, if anything someone will come to an agreement, he can sacrifice our interests, in four minutes, he will need to decide something with tbilisi, in tbilisi, in chisinau, and we will simply be arrested, and putin will say, but not

say anything, they do not say anything, that's why he, they just don't pay attention to it, but these are still people who focused on... their support, so in fact it can have quite serious consequences, which in moscow they can't even predict, but everyone says that the mountain- the karabakh republic is the first self-proclaimed republic that disappeared on territories of the post-soviet space, this is not true, ugh, the first was the gagauz republic, but when the gagauz republic disappeared, beautifully, with agreements with the republic of moldova, it became an autonomous territory. gagauz are not divided anywhere, they did not flee to ukraine or russia, they live there, all the people who lived, all the leaders of this gagauz republic, none of them had any problems with justice. they are all respectable people there, streets in komratka are named after their surnames, well, i have those who died,

those who are alive, continued active political activities, were elected to various leadership positions, you understand, and they understood that they had created such a thing, but russia interceded for them, it was their mediator in a big way, and it gave them the opportunity to function further in moldova as respectable , serious people, that is, nothing terrible you can risk such a situation and nothing will happen to you, there were also decisions in principle, quite serious, they were not like in transnistria, but one way or another, these were statements, these were statements about leaving the group republic of moldova, it was, i was in gaguzi, when it declared itself an independent state, so i remember all this very well, it could seem that it is not the center of the world, which state it is, it's kind of funny, but i apologize. er, karabakh too, believe me, not monte carlo, it doesn't matter how it looks on the outside, it matters how it, er,

proclaims itself, and now it's a completely different end, in the presence of russian troops, in the republic of gagauzia, there were no russian troops in the so-called, and it still did not prevent solving this problem, and here the russian troops even... the question is not even that they did not ensure the safety of the civilian population of karabakh, they did not even try to ensure the safety of the so-called leadership of the nkr, although, as you understand, they could, they could, the azerbaijani security forces would not fight with russian peacekeepers specifically, they could randomly shoot a car there, but if to go into a russian military unit there and say hand over these and those to us , it wouldn’t be like that, well, if there were talks at the level of the ministers of defense there, that’s a different story,

here they didn’t even try, and everyone now they see that putin volodymyr volodymyrovych, you know, there is this word with five letters, it is now written on the walls of the russian embassy in armenia, but to be an intelligent television program, he is a traitor, he is an ordinary traitor. boys don't behave like that in general, that's the thing, i'm a boy according to concepts, by what kind of concepts, these are not concepts, it's just an ordinary zara, in the same way, as with a beautiful traitor, he made an agreement and killed, as with the leaders of karabakh, the traitor , guaranteed security, this last president is generally a chekist, you know what kind of person is this? this president you talked about, the so-called one who signed the decree on the dissolution of karabakh, he was the president for a week, the previous president resigned, precisely because he understood what

it was all about and did not want to do all this, let him negotiate with the azerbaijanis the russians didn't let him do it, he resigned, and the parliament, the so-called karabakh, elected a man who had worked all his life in the national security service of the self-proclaimed karabakh as president, in fact it's just a branch not of the armenian, but of the soviet. russian special services, and just these people, in fact, connected with lubyanka, they all conducted such an operation, now the question arises, here i really am, imagine that you are the president, you already imagined yourself as the first secretary of the central committee of the party of azerbaijan, imagine to yourself, that you are the president, the president of abkhazia, ugh, and you see it, well, we naturally have a question, don't breathe, freeze and pretend that i don't exist, well, what if something critical happens, what will you will they also be arrested and brought to tbilisi for separatism? well

, that is, you need it, so it turns out that you we need to somehow get out of this situation, well, if there is an opportunity to betray putin and russia, why not betray them? when, if you don't betray them, they will definitely betray you, not on wednesday, but on thursday. you can say that putin questioned both the prestige of russia as a state and the prestige of russia as a mafia, and all this in order to order the armenians, to punish the armenians for wanting to elect their own government, don't you think that this is such madness , as with ukraine, it's all the same, it's just schizophrenia, we are this ukraine we will dismember, we will bomb, we will join half to ourselves, we will join half to poland simply because the visa... your president should have been yanukovych, because i want a childish yanukovych,

i want yanukovych, and here i want sarksyan, i want, and if not, i want you i will destroy everyone, as he said to this prime minister of israel navtali benet, hand it over, i will destroy them, and why? but because they do not obey. well, i don't know if this can be considered politics, because you and i have been talking about the caucasus for this whole hour, we have almost talked about the caucasus, this is almost our entire broadcast, but that's actually shows, er, not very healthy trends, this is not some cold calculation. you know, a man who thinks he's some kind of biblical hero, and he sends out some plagues, now i'm going to send you a locust there , just so you can see, well, i'm sorry, but he doesn't look like moses at all, but he has such, such a mania for grandeur, and he thinks all the time that you will surely die from this punishment, you understand that if pashinyan stands up now, and

then in legitimate elections there, he will hand over power to some other political force, ugh, and in armenia has always had elections, that's the trick, they just elected pro-russian politicians, but then at some point these russian politicians simply could not hold power, during the next electoral cycle, then this will mean that armenia finally left the circle of influence of russia, by the way, this can be said about the entire south caucasus, because it is difficult to call azerbaijan a country... with unpredictable elections, but one way or another, it is a different system of government, it is based on other international relations and so on, georgia, here we are let's talk about how much georgia is connected to moscow, the georgian government now, yes, but in any case these are electoral politicians, you know, electoral, they have no possibility to falsify the elections, if one

fine day the georgian society wants another government. it will choose it and no bidzina ivannishvili will be able to prevent it in any way, and this already says that these countries are different. well, of course, azerbaijan with its managed democracy, shall we say, may seem more like russia than georgia or armenia, but it is a managed democracy, and not russian totalitarianism. there is an official, so to speak, opposition in azerbaijan. er, in azerbaijan, people are not afraid of the power of the kind that exists in russia, in azerbaijan he cooperates with international communities , there he releases political prisoners, there in ilham aliyev he balances between the fullness of his power, ugh, and the power of his honorable wife, it is also necessary to remember that this is a family tandem, putin is not putin, he will never have such a happy family life, you see, imagine that

you have a wife and she is not just your wife, but friend. the second first vice president, it is possible to dream only of such a thing, i think, well, but if, no joke, in any case, this is a whole system of relations with the world, putin got rid of this whole system a long time ago, so i think that for by and large, as long as russia is locked in our war , it will lose more and more, why i say it depends on our capabilities at all, to lose, the south caucasus and i really hope that it will happen, i want to thank you christina , for the opportunity to discuss this in such detail difficult topic, and thank you, dear viewers, for listening to our discussion with khrystyna for so long, and seeing that khrystyna has already taken all the leadership positions that she could have occupied during this broadcast, and i only have to give the floor to our colleague iryna koval , she will tell you in detail about

the results of this week, so what. we say goodbye to you, khrystyna yatskiv, vitaliy portnyk, and now eryna koval with the final news release, please, good evening vitaliy, really in the next 30 minutes only about the most important events of this week, so wait, about the hottest areas on the front, where the ukrainian army is defending and recapturing our territories, what ukraine should do. in order not to lose financial support for the event, and whether russia can be expected to listen to the magathe resolution on the zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant, about this and much more in today's issue. in the direction of bakhmut, the ukrainian military is inflicting significant losses on the russian occupiers, in melitopol they are gradually liberating