[000:00:00;00] exact withdrawal and until now is not going to make any concessions to ukraine, but how to cooperate with budapest when it does not agree to any compromise solutions, i simply demand that ukraine do what viktor orban wants, without any, i would said in a low tone. and i already said that budapest has already developed strategies, i think not one, namely strategies on how to promote, something like that, to beg. in the european union, they will definitely demand consent for the start of negotiations on the eu, for the start of negotiations on individual chapters, something of their own, 100% of the funding that is being withheld from them due to problems with the rule of law in hungary, and they will do whatever they want, so you will have

to talk to them, it will not be a simple conversation, moving to hungary in those matters where decisions are unanimous, i.e. consensus is adopted, it will not really work, but orbán needs to negotiate in brussels, so again, the keys to this are in brussels, and i think we will also need to understand what steps we are ready to take, where we can to talk to them, and where in fact, we have to stand until the end. and this is not about compromises, but about surrendering a position, and this conversation 100%, will be neither simple nor pleasant, and if, as we said to orbán, someone else joins, like fitz, it will become even more difficult, and say whatever please, mr. pavle, the fact that we are actually ready to talk about the status of otp-bank, in the context of a sanctioned or

non-sanctioned structure, this gives us, in your opinion, the right to demand from our partners such , you know, an uncompromising and tough position regarding sanctions, regarding russian companies, and so on, that is, if we ourselves are ready to compromise for any reason, then can we insist that our partners be tough? of course we can, but what we are doing to withdraw... otp of the bank or the greek companies, don't forget that this is also being negotiated and the greeks are also very insistent on this, so this is not a story about oban alone, as you can see, and many countries of the european union will try to solve their current and not-quite, current and not-quite-current problems on the way to

opening negotiations. yes, i'm talking about it has repeatedly said, what we are doing is simply adding names to such a semi-informal, semi-formal list , adding to this list, of course, complicates life, but there are no formal legal consequences, the sanctions we are talking about have such consequences, but at the same time budapest, i remind everyone, for all my jokes in quotation marks, attempts to somehow single out some russian oligarchs, loosen sanctions, single out the russian nuclear industry and many other things that can be continued because of whom, nevertheless, ievsky has so far supported all the packages, although this and there are packages of the lowest denominator, and although these

are problems. great with the implementation of these sanctions, especially with the fact that there are no bypasses, and they are actually no longer the sea, but the ocean, but nevertheless, budapest formally agreed to all 11 packages of sanctions, i think that orbán has separately, like me already told the strategy to solve the key issues for themselves, they have already laid out where their consent is needed for consensus. decision and they will demand something for it, that is why they have drawn 100% history for themselves and allies, well conditionally situational ones allies in quotation marks, among european countries, they will also find 100%, i do not think that they will be like orban, orban, he is alone, and hungary is alone in the european union today, it is not that such a trojan horse at all,

but something like that, but again, other countries can also pursue some of their situational local interests on their local problems, as we can see in the case of greek carriers. but explain to us yesterday's statement of the head of the european commission's representation in ukraine, kateryna materova, that the countries who will not be able to solve their territorial problems, she meant not only ukraine with our war with the russian federation, but also moldova with the transnistrian aspect of its existence, will not be members of the european union until this moment, and so far no one in the european union don't know what it will look like. this is a formal political position, a report was recently released with great fanfare, very publicly by the way, from 12 german and french experts, and

there are a lot of official positions in this report germany and france, but they hid them so neatly, under the guise of sufficiently well-known experts, i don't know all of them, but i know most of them, they are really... well-known enough and there is, if you read the special section that says: yes, ukraine we accept, but if at that time there will still be territories controlled by russia, and then there will be a process of deoccupation, then there will be a separate process of accepting them into the european union, it will not be automatic, for example, there will be a separate survey, which surveys, what kind of survey , no one talks about it there, so it is formal as i said, there is a political position, but nevertheless, no one knows how to implement it further, moreover, it is clear to everyone that just as ukraine must fundamentally change in order to join the european union and nato,

the european union must also change itself , since today's european union is not able to accept both us and moldova, well, moldova is not a special challenge, i speak with respect, of course, to... and, but also the western balkans, and they don't just say that this is a geopolitical expansion, i.e. , there won't be, difficult arguments, difficult emotions, and most importantly, no one knows now, do we even need to change the basic eu treaties , about decision making, the process, how it is done and many, many other things, this discussion has started but... no conscious results, even from my communication, so far i have not i see, so the political position that you are talking about and that kateryna spoke about is for now a formal political declaration and

nothing more, but how to implement it, so far no one knows, thank you, pavlo klimkin, ukrainian diplomat, former minister of foreign affairs of our country, we had a connection, and we will break with khrystyna literally in 5 minutes, do not switch. antwerp shakhtar namego. in the matches against the belgian champion, the miners must score maximum points. on october 4 at 19:45 cheer for the victory of the miner. turn on the champions league exclusively on mego. the child caught the virus. mother vera, has faith in dikasan. inhaled dekasan enters the lungs, where the virus is. dikasan works, mother vera is happy. dekasan inhalation against viruses and bacteria. dekasan is an inhalation antiseptic. there are 10% discounts on biotebal tablets in pharmacies traveller, bam and savings. there are

20% discounts on longit cream in podorozhnyk, bam and oskad pharmacies. there are discounts on samples, 20% in podorozhnyk, bam and oskad pharmacies. nine years and seven months

of war. ukraine still exists thanks to you, our defenders, thank you. vitaly portnikov is with you and we are talking about the main events of this week. vitaly portnikov and top experts about the most vivid events of the last seven days. our guest will be the generalate of the accompanying lash. former national security advisor to the president of the united states, donald trump, herbert mcmaster. current topics, pressing questions, authoritative comments and forecasts in the informational marathon project with vitaly portnikov. every sunday at 20:10 on espresso. we continue saturday's political club of khrystyna yatskiv and vitaly portnikov.

let's talk about election processes in countries. neighbors, we have already talked about slovakia, poland is also on the threshold of elections, and a million hearts march is about to take place there , when in fact , as i understand it, such an anti-government rally will take place, where people will come out, in particular, people who support ukraine, today we had the opportunity to talk with marik siyrant, for example, and he says: i am going there because i support ukraine, that is his argument, to go there, please tell mr. vitaly, if we take the period of 2022, how it seems to me that it was simply indecent among politicians to say that i do not support ukraine, or we do not think that ukraine should be the main priority now, or i am romanticizing, but now this is a more popular thesis, and many are trying to ride it like a horse from politicians, in particular in european countries, no? well i would say that it is logical because for any politician if he wishes to retain power.

the protection of national interests is more important than anything else, it's just another question, what are national interests, last year it was believed that national interests primarily consisted in the protection of ukraine, because if russia seizes ukraine and goes, let's say, to the polish borders, then this is a serious problem and for poland and for other central european countries, now everyone sees a positional war, when the ukrainian army is fighting the russian the army is very far from the borders of the countries of central europe. and there are chances that this war will drag on for years, precisely in this geographical space, precisely in the east and south of ukraine, and if ukraine will exhaust russia for years, even exhausting itself, then this will mean that nothing is in danger for the countries of central europe , because russia, weakened by years of confrontation with ukraine, will no longer be able to pose a threat to central european countries. therefore,

the interests of one's own voter, to one's own voter, usually come to the fore in this situation he is not threatened by the russian threat, he is threatened by, let's say, there will be some net prices for grain from the point of view of right-wing polish politicians, he is threatened by the issue of otp bank, from orban's point of view, he is threatened by the problems associated there with greek carriers from from ophin's point of view, these are simply primary problems, because this is a war in its protracted phase, so it can still be called a high-intensity war, maybe we will live in a low- intensity war for years, but this is a geographically limited war, until a certain point localized if the russian army goes forward, if it appears in the north of ukraine, i can assure you that the interest in this war on the part of poles or hungarians will increase again, because they will understand that a new danger has appeared, but for now the ukrainian army restrains russia in the east and in the north. of ukraine, and let's say in those regions

that are very far from polish civilization, then of course the situation looks completely different, well, look, there are two ways of the development of events, one way is connected with the fact that russia, say, defeats ukraine, ugh, uh, it goes out, occupies, goes out to the borders there, in 1991, and all the other former soviets simply fell like dominoes after that and in years there, well, because the ukrainian army is the only army that can match the russian one and wants, wants, in other former soviet republics, these are small countries, no one will stand up for them, they have a rather childish belief in this, i think that if you ask the citizens of azerbaijan, who will stand up for them if a russian tank comes, they will tell you they will say that erdogan, but if you ask the citizens of kazakhstan, they may say that china will not allow this, but

that's all, you know, before the first shot from the cannons, we understand that neither china nor turkey will fight for the russian federation, they will express political, concern , they may even supply weapons up to a certain point, but this is a small country, azerbaijan is not ukraine, the mobilization potential is different, i am not saying that it will happen tomorrow, i am simply saying that in the event of the collapse of ukraine, such threats to the post-soviet it just means that this soviet union appears, this is what the kremlin dreams of, and then this soviet union is new, he already declared, remember that before this big attack, the kremlin already said that you... we we demand that the latest weapons be withdrawn from the countries of central europe. well, of course, now the west will strengthen moscow, simply saying: "listen, we ourselves know what kind of weapons should be kept there, but imagine that moscow has received all the military advantages, well, that its

troops are stationed in the conditional uzhgorod, and in conditional in ashgabat, and that she is starting negotiations with the west, and under from the united states, their conditional trump, che..." is also conducted by the president of russia, it does not matter who putin or medvid speaks, listen, why did all these pygmies give up on you, well tell me, we don't want anything like that, we lived well when they were under us, and the french and germans were under you, well, let's live in peace, they can even be in nato, that hungary in nato is something that hinders us , but it should be a friendly country, and poland should be friendly country, let it be in nato, just let it know its place in this life, and this is a threat, and the second. the option is that ukraine wins, becomes a member of nato and the european union, and russia is unlikely to step on the former soviet republic then, otherwise, it will try, but it can be a completely different story, you see that with every day of the war with ukraine

, its influence in the post-soviet space is declining, not because it is fighting, but because it is not winning, and when it was fighting and winning, let's say in georgia in 2008, or where else its influence is. increased, and this must be understood, because not very large countries with, i would say, with a paternalistic society, like winners, not losers, and this is such a reality, we see that in russia failure after failure, look at the situation on the caucasus, so in this respect everything is clear, but on the other hand, you understand that the politicians who are now behaving the way the politicians of the right of justice are behaving, they are taking risks, that is, they are on the one hand, when they are his, all these slogans when they say that poles are offended by ukrainians, that ukrainians are ungrateful and all that, of course they have to count on the ultra -radical right-wing electorate, which otherwise would definitely vote for the confederation, let's say the same polish farmers, conditionally, who otherwise

voted definitely for the confederation, and now they will think, listen to this government protects our interests, why should they vote for someone else, but there is a moderate part of the right to the electorate? people who, in principle, do not really like the same civic platform there, people who consider yaroslav's party kaczyński, the party of kosyol, the party that preserves traditional values, and at the same time they do not like russia, these people, they consider russia to be an aggressor, they believe that it behaves precisely in contradiction to these values, here suddenly, such a story turns out, so that on the one hand they can take an electorate here, lose an electorate there, it's such a game with an unknown result, and we'll see how it all turns out. unfold during the polish elections about the troubles of the russian federation, i don't know if you can call it that, but did everything go according to russia's plan, actually in the caucasus in karabakh, we are now observing events that end the 30-year history of the unrecognized

nagorno-karabakh republic and from january 1 , 2024, de jure, it ceases to exist, de facto it already is. do not control anything, then what difference does it make, what decrees they issue, i do not know at all, even from the legal point of view of the legislation of this same self-proclaimed, nagorno-karabakh republic, to what extent the president of this republic, elected by the parliament and the people, can terminate these entities the existence of anything, it is simple dissolved politically. only it went according to the plan and or not according to the plan of russia, you see, russia has very simple plans, these plans consist in the need to maintain control over the post-soviet space, i have already told you, this is the principle of the refrigerator, the former soviet republics must be in such a refrigerator,

don't enter anywhere, don't molest anyone, stay in that state , lie there until i want to eat them, until i want to eat them, absolutely, such frozen meat for the predator that is russia . armenia and azerbaijan, they were for many years, one might say, on the verge of this karabakh conflict, which - russia fueled, back in the days of the soviet union, it was just that in soviet times, some forces did it, then others began to do it, but again, if we look at the first karabakh war, where armenia won an undisputed victory over azerbaijan, and the karabakh forces won an undisputed victory. so we have to remember that how it was in the beginning? initially, moscow fully supported azerbaijan, by 155%. then these started, i would said to bend, because it became clear in moscow

that control over azerbaijan needs to be established, the people's front headed by obulfaz melchu came to power in azerbaijan, this people's front, its leaders began to think about some energy contracts with the west, no, we will not allow that we can't, the same vahanalia began, help to armenia, which was not helped, the leaders of the karabakh committee in soviet times, interned and arrested at the head of the future. but moscow didn't like it very much that it happened like that, and they actually helped then armenia, because they tried, they had a plan, it also did not go according to plan, they had a plan that the loss of azerbaijan in the war would destroy the government of azerbaijan headed by bolfaz elchebey, and there was already a person, one might say, azerbaijani yanukovych, colonel suret

huseynov, who became the main leader of this rebellion there against abolfaz elche with his troops, who received weapons at the russian base, and went to baku, and here, when he was already standing near the walls of baku, he was able to take power literally from his hands, thanks to the incredible , i would say, amazing the consensus of the azerbaijani elites, was taken away by gaidar. aliyev, a former member of the politburo of the central committee of the cpsu, the first secretary of the central committee of the communist party of azerbaijan and the father of the current president of azerbaijan. it was a political miracle when we looked at it all, how it even happened, i've never seen anything like it in my life. ugh, because on the day when aliyev became a member of azerbaijan, before that he was almost nobody, he was the head of the autonomous khychevan republic, the deputy speaker of the parliament in order for him to be appointed as the president, the president also resigned, the chairman of the parliament and the first deputy chairman of the parliament, they all went and cleaned up aliyev, no one could raise a hand, but you can see how many years have passed, and nobody wants to raise a hand against aliyev either, it was

already a failed plan, but moscow understood , that it can hold armenia, azerbaijan in this, uh, in this he said, the 97th year, we have come a long way, but it is simply necessary to think in order to understand all this, livon terpitrasyan and heydar aliyev agree on the solution of the karabakh conflict, basically both countries close to resolving issues, moscow. organizes a coup in irmen, more successful than the coup in azerbaijan, and the former president of the autocratic nagorno-karabakh republic, robert kacheren, such an armenian medvedchuk, comes to power in yerevan, and from this moment the entire negotiation process with azerbaijan is preserved, and the azerbaijanis, led by heydar, aliyev and headed by his heir milham, he prepares. to some kind of revenge, and armenia is not preparing for anything in particular, because why, what does she

think that she, what should be prepared for her russia, armenia lives in complete poverty, in blockade, in corruption , you can't even imagine what state the country was in, people are leaving, karabakh itself lives like a surrounded fortress, it is impossible to look at it with objective eyes, precisely because if you start talking to armenian politicians, listen, you understand that the country is a disaster, but we won nothing like that, russia is protecting us, and here events are taking place, when the armenian people themselves lost patience, due to the fact that this clan , who came to power in 1997, he does not want power to give, and people live worse and worse, this is an internal political problem, people live worse and worse and they just want fair elections, and fair elections win. poshenyan's party, and what is happening here is exactly what happened in ukraine

in 2004, when the kremlin said , how is it? remember, from this moment on against ukraine, russia always acts this way, or you choose those. whom we will tell, or we will punish you, therefore that you are stupid, stupid children, you must be punished, and then russia, russia all the time, it sells weapons to armenia, it sells weapons to azerbaijan, but it has a military base in armenia, and armenians continue to be sure that russia is their ally, but russia has much more in common with baku than with yerevan in such a situation, because who is this pashinyan, who are these people, well, ilham heydarovych aliyev, the son of a respected person, a respected person, and he is gone. how can you quarrel with such a person, and for what,

energy state, quarrel, she can you also have to do something, as we can see, now azerbaijan is becoming an energy alternative to moscow, and and here they are, then in the 20th year, they are absolutely calmly watching how azerbaijan regains control not so much over karabakh, but over those areas that are around karabakh, which in the armenian environment was called a chain of security for karabakh, which is also a very strange approach to security, because in principle livon terpitran was going to surrender. azerbaijan has control over all these areas in exchange for security guarantees for the karabakh vermen absolutely civilized approach, because this is an internationally recognized territory of azerbaijan, it is impossible to cancel this fact, but the russians stopped it with kacharyan. and russia has this idea that after such a huge loss , pashinyan will lose the parliamentary elections,

pro-russian politicians will come to power, and pashinyan will not lose the elections, why? because. of course, armenians are offended by pashinyan, but people who oppose him are even more disgusted by them, especially since they understand that these very people have stolen over these decades armenia and its army, other than pashinyan, who was the head of the government there for a couple of years, all these previous rulers, they basically did not develop anything, this is such wisdom, in fact, some maturity, in my opinion, of the people, not to hang all the dogs on the last one, who was... well, he was in power for a very short time, maybe he was longer, maybe he was hanged, but just for a short time, you see, and at this moment a new idea arises, so there is no need to interfere with azerbaijan further, what in general takes place in the 20th year, almost the entire population of karabakh leaves karabakh, that's it happened, we see this exodus of people, yes,

but we can ask, in the 20th year, these people were there, for the most part? it didn’t happen, they returned, and why did they return, again under this amazing illusion, now there are russian peacekeepers in general, ugh, well, there were armenian units, well, of course, they lost to azerbaijan, but azerbaijan will not raise a hand against the russians, but the russians will protect us, no matter what we live here, until they agree on something, the russians are from the azerbaijanis, yes, and putin, listen, what is putin talking about at this moment thinks if i survive, if everyone, if aliyev can establish control over karabakh, which is not difficult, because you understand, if you already have shusha, this is a strategic height, and this is known from the first karabakh war, while azerbaijan controlled shusha, by and large there was no opportunity to establish a normal life in karavas, stepan kertka did not

have a whole house left, not a single one, ugh, when he was shelled. from shusha, and only when the armenians took shusha, they could already claim something there, and here azerbaijan returns to shusha, they are at these heights, well if you live under these heights and ba, and see from above, well, i don't know, anyone who imagines the topography of the region there, knows what it looks like in general, you can't feel safe, but if you have an idea of ​​safety, that's , that the russians will protect you, well, well, and vanya or vova at this time is thinking, well, if... they will definitely punish pashinyan, then we must continue, why, because we need to expel him, because this is not a safe government, he talks to the west, he says that we are not guarantors of security, why do we need this, and so on then putin actually sacrifices his image, a peacemaker and his authority, so that no one will raise a hand against him, in order to

solve the issue with pashinyan. and again nothing comes out, so far, at least, so far, and this is generally such blasphemy , to be honest, because now we are not even talking about the nagorno-karabakh republic, it is obvious that this is an illegitimate entity, about people who believed that these russian peacekeepers guarantee their safety, turned out to be a complete delusion, no one guaranteed anything to anyone, more the day when six russian peacekeepers were killed, ilham gaidarovych called volodymyr volodymovych, told him, you know how people you know about, well, uvona has drowned. ilham, there are some other topics, why are you bothering me, who is there for me every day in ukraine, it is unknown how many people die , i don’t call anyone, well, that’s it, eh, now aliyev, this is also a difficult situation, because by and large, we need to understand