[000:00:00;00] a girl, a tank driver, well, soviets, from the soviet army, and they are looking at each other there, well, there is such and such a scene, as if there were ukrainians there, and there were ukrainians, but they ended up on different sides, because some were forced, well, let's say that my grandfather and great-grandfather were simply brought to the village, taken away, and you joined the army, yes, well, no one asked you, on the other hand, you joined the army because you wanted to stop the darkness that came from the east, well, i think it is worth reminding how many ukrainians were destroyed, killed in lviv, in galicia, well, in general. in western ukraine after the 39th year, well, starting from the 40th year, before the arrival of the germans, and also how many ukrainians were resettled to siberia and other regions of the russian federation, so everything is clear here, in your opinion, how in my opinion, as a historian, what should the ukrainian public, certain officials have done, how should they have reacted competently to this scandal, the ukrainian side,

unfortunately, did not react to it in any way, they wrote to the president, the president announced it, well this event was prepared, it happened, the president, well, how can i not criticize him for something, actually, he acted as it was planned, as it was programmed by this program of events in canada, but it seems to me that people, well, the president should not have answered, he is not a professional historian and certainly should not have answered these questions here, but the russians and other organizations there caused a certain scandal because of this, and again accused ukraine of something there, well, plus him... roto , who resigned, what should be the reaction, because if you as a historian advised to the minister of foreign affairs, maybe there, in the president's office, what to say, how to act, how should we act, in your opinion, or not to act at all, well, well, you , well, that's it, that's it, the speaker resigned, justin trudeau apologized and forgot, in social networks i read a lot of opinions about it, especially those

ukrainians who... often communicate , cross paths or work in europe, cross paths with foreigners, cooperate, they believe that there is no need to act, it is necessary to be silent and ignore it, in my point of view, it is wrong because they kept quiet we ignored this issue at the state level all , all the years of independence, and this is what it led to, that is, a completely innocent person was harassed, accused of the worst things, and as a result, this marked the image of ukraine in the world in the eyes of foreigners, but well, if you were to think about some kind of recipe, i think that there is never an ideal recipe , and if such a situation happened, then the state speakers could speak with the facts that exist today, about these facts, that divisionalists are not, have never been, and have never been were not recognized by any commission of inquiry

into it. the issue of criminals, they did not participate in crimes against the civilian population, they were not punitive special units or organs of an organization, but military or non-military units that participated in the holocaust, this did not happen, that is, it must be clearly articulated, but also at the same time , remember that such messages alone cannot change the situation, and it is necessary to initiate various scientific studies, round tables, discussions of cases... scientific discussions are interdisciplinary, not only among historians, on this topic, ukraine also has, the state must build its vector, which will be clear, so we will know for sure what we say to foreigners, how we say it, and at the same time we do not silence problematic moments, because they are always somewhere out there swell and explode and act against us, and such moments must be worked through, find

a common consensus and declare it. and in general, it is possible to distribute some theses there through the ministry of foreign affairs, which people could read, ordinary people could read, who do not know history, have not studied and understood elementary things, after all, ordinary ukrainians who go abroad are also constantly faced with this, but every ukrainian who is abroad today, abroad is an ambassador of ukraine in the world, and people should orient themselves, and the more people will communicate about such things with foreigners in everyday life, in simple situations, and the more this opinion will develop that ukrainians are not involved in the crimes of the nazis, that is, if this winner of the elections in slovakia, fico, says that it is ukrainians, ukrainians are fascists, he says that they started the war, not russians , well, what is swallowing it is necessary, you know, such, but i just want to remind you, you know, ukrainians also sometimes have to go on the attack, if we remember the tragedy

of the village of kryukivka, which was destroyed in 1943. 6,700 people, well, we all know, well, the world knows about the tragedy of, let's say, the hut, the tragedy of a large french village there, but the most people were killed at once in the village of koryukivka in the chernihiv region in ukraine in 1940. 700 people were killed in the hut , there are 6,700 people in kryukivka, by the way, the partisans from the forest watched this event, did not intervene, did not save the villagers, but then together with the nazis, the hungarian occupation garrison took part in this, but for some reason i do not hear an apology from the hungarians that they destroyed 6,700 ukrainians, they simply burned them in the village and shot them, yes, but all your fingers are poking these greased fingers, your fingers have slipped into ukrainian history, thank you that you told in detail about the activities of the division, we will continue the conversation with the diplomat there, already in the second part of our program, we will think about how the ukrainian authorities should act in this situation, in this very difficult situation, i am very grateful to you thank you, ms. tetyana, i wish you a good day tetyana shvydchenko, candidate of historical sciences, well, in the second part of our program we will talk with a diplomat about how to act, because there will be

many more such challenges, such scandals, and attacks on ukrainian history and accusations of ukrainians there will be a lot more to come, what kind of behavior should be developed by the ukrainian authorities, first of all the diplomatic corps, wait, we 'll talk about it, the festival of culture and literature bookforum is coming back. live in lviv, online in the world, foreign and ukrainian authors, book fair, discussions that change the future a new location in the city center, the powder tower on pidvalnaya street. thursday, october 8. come, the entrance is free. details on the bookforom website. antwerp shakhtar on megago in matches against the belgian champion , the miners need to score maximum points. on october 4 at 19:45, support the victory

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you draw your own conclusions. let's return to the conversation, this is the svitoglyad program on the espresso tv channel. the topic of our conversation is the division of the sss halychyna, the canadian scandal, this scandal happened on the 20th of september in canada, when during the speech of the president of ukraine volodymyr zelenskyi, when he was on a visit to canada, he presented a veteran of the sss halychyna division, he was congratulated, and then a scandal broke out, as a result of which the speaker of the parliament of the house of representatives, rota, resigned, and justin trudeau, the prime minister of canada, apologized for the fact that yaroslav hunka was introduced at this, and he was applauded at this , at this event, the question was raised whether the division of sss halychyna is really guilty to such an extent that now its veterans must apologize for what they did not do. well, we talked about the historical aspect of this moment, now

let's talk about the diplomatic one, because ukraine must still defend itself on the world stage and even cover certain problematic and difficult issues of history correctly, i am not saying that it is necessary to whitewash oneself, but to cover correctly and speak the truth, not to listen to the narratives of the kremlin, in particular kostyantyn hryshchenko , we invited a diplomat, the minister of foreign affairs of ukraine in 2003, 2005, 2010, 2012, if i am not mistaken, mr. kostyantyn was also the ambassador of ukraine to the russian federation, mr. kostyantyn, i congratulate you. cheers, i was also his ambassador to the us, yes, and ambassador to the us, yes, eh why am i talking about moscow, first of all, because you know well the attitude of the russians to these issues and how their propaganda works on these important issues. first of all, i will ask you to comment on this very event that happened in canada, in the parliament, the invitation of a veteran of the sss galicia division and subsequent events, the logic, it is organized, as far as i understand, by the representatives of the canadian side, like that. explain how it happened, and already how

this scandal developed, exactly, let's talk about this event, first of all, as far as i understand, it was entirely an initiative of the canadian side, i think it was a proposal from the ukrainian diaspora, where, there, they are very careful about who to invite, and from the point of view of those who proposed and those who made the decision. about the invitation, there was no doubt at the stage when such an invitation was sent, and the attitude towards those who fought for ukraine during the second world war, wherever they were, in whatever army they were, it is quite clear that here

the ukrainian side. had, no, no, could not to do something that would change the situation, which, unfortunately, is not present in many countries, what exactly was the choice faced by ukrainians during the war, when they had to make very difficult decisions, and therefore it is everyone's responsibility to what happened when you participated, it must be individual, but those who make harsh statements do not always agree with this , i think that in this case, nevertheless, this, this event did not become what it will be in the way of our relations with canada, and in this case, i think that is enough, normal there was a reaction from the ukrainian side.

but, at the same time, i think that it is necessary to more actively, nevertheless, in interaction with ukrainians abroad, to prove those very important theses regarding the need for assistance to ukraine and not to go, not to follow the narratives of the kremlin in what concerns history, because history is now also being used as a weapon against ukraine, and it is necessary not only to fight against it.... to find new approaches to neutralize such attempts, you know, today, i read the statement of the winner of the slovak elections, a fizo who said that it ukrainian fascists started the war, i am leading to the point that even during the second world war, now there will be people who will say that there are fascists here, there are nazis, we know very well, i once talked to vasyl shklyar, a writer who wrote

the book black sun about the azov regiment, and how it was somewhere, they put sticks in the wheels when they tried to publish this book, or at least present it in germany, to other countries of the european union, well, it seems that it is about azov, it is the nazis, that is well , there is none, at all, these are these people who defend their state, but this is the narrative, because somewhere there they saw some signs, somewhere they saw some symbols, which means, that is, it is not something that happened only in the middle of the last century, it is the same thing, the same people are trying to talk about modern ukrainian soldiers, and now that the war is over, there will also be people who will say that you killed someone somewhere with your mine or projectile, so you also committed crimes against the local population, in your opinion, as it should during the war , well, i understand that there is no time for everything now, but should the ukrainian diplomacy, publicly or not publicly, carry out work to extinguish these outbreaks that occur due to russia's supply , of course there, but only later do the jewish organizations and everyone else speak, what do you see, this is, well, this is sss galicia

, there were some crimes somewhere, what action should be taken here, or should someone else deal with it in the international arena, so that such problematic issues, no, definitely, it should be one of the priorities. work of ukrainian diplomacy and mainly it has to be neutralized precisely in specific countries, because each state should have its own plan on how to work on bringing to the public and to the political leadership the truth about ukrainian soldiers about the same azov, today and also clarify the annual context where did this thesis that nazism exists in ukraine come from, in my contacts, when i, i say that i did not see any manifestation of it at all during the entire period of ukrainian independence, and precisely,

it is necessary to show it with facts, i would said that here it is very important to arm our embassy with the information that can help them in carrying out this work, let's say, when something similar is heard from the hungarians, then it is probably worth, but begrudgingly, understandably, diplomatically, to remind the hungarians that committed huge crimes against humanity during the second world war on the territory of ukraine, and this does not and should not prevent us from being friends in modern europe, what prevents us is precisely a biased attitude, a political one. from the hungarian authorities today, that is, there must be one's plan, one's arguments, and those that can be the most effective, also i think it is very important to work not where it is easy, relatively easy, because nothing is easy today, but with

those who are the most difficult to convince, let's say, already in the united states, now for our embassy , ​​for diplomats, for our political leadership, to practically open all the doors, except for those who do not want to listen to our arguments, because they have already created this the image in your own, in your imagination, so let's say the priority, perhaps not the main one, but at the same time a serious one, should be the work with difficult players, i.e., those who today advocate isolationist positions, regarding aid... to ukraine and find ways to establish a dialogue with them and convince them in the need, from the point of view of the interests of the united states itself, to support us, including in this context, in the context of the neutralization of precisely these measures, regarding

the alleged presence of some nazi manifestations in ukraine, which simply does not correspond completely to reality, well, i would also like to to point out that, in fact, the level of support for ukraine in most of the countries that are currently part of the coalition of those who advocate for our help, this level is extremely high, we should not think that it can be undermined so easily, and the presence of a large pool of journalists in kyiv, who constantly give reports and reports in favor of ukraine, this is our huge plus, by the way, here is russia , well, it is actively working now, it is no longer a secret about it, but to undermine exactly what you were talking about, support ukraine and help in ukraine, it uses propaganda channels, it uses its agents, it uses money, well , we see the victory of this fice in slovakia now, i think that somewhere there too, well, there could be some influence of russia, because this is

the only way out for it now supporting ukraine, it is clear that with such support it will not be able to win, or at least, it will not be able to even sit down at the negotiating table, so this is what it will do, and when such a situation is critical for russia, of course, use any scandal, to accuse ukraine of nazism, it's one thing to rehash some history there, it's one thing, and another that russia will try to use some problems between, well, let's say , how they arose between ukraine and poland, these agrarian problems, trade, economic, well , a little political, maybe between ukraine there and by other states, and this immediately comes out, yes, it begins there, operations. vistula, operation zahid, there are some other reminders, and it begins to hit those pain points, russia through its agents, through interested people, hits those pain points that should increase the gap between ukraine and her partners, well, in particular, such a story happened because of this in canada, please tell me if it is true, well, you worked with russia, well, how did you work for the ukrainian state, but

in russia, in russia as well, please tell me if they really are so intent on exasperating this wound and taking the maximum benefit from it, hitting once again on historical pain points in order to make ukraine quarrel with its partners, well, the fact is that the tradition of russian diplomacy, it is completely... laid in soviet times, this the same narrative that during the winter war of 1939, it was finland that attacked the soviet union, it was transmitted for er-er decades constantly, and today er, the propaganda that er is carried out through tv channels actually affects not only that in

on the average citizen, but also on the entire russian diplomacy, it is permeated by these narratives and is already trying with full dedication to translate them into the political plane, but in fact the trust in those theses that we advocate in the un security council, the same representative of russia nebenets, or those theses which russian diplomats walk around european capitals, do not inspire any confidence in the vast majority of logically thinking people , there will always be those who believe that it is they who can have access to the truth, they are looking for such sources and find them in russia, one of the means of how it can work, this, i suggested this in my contacts, is to have, completely, completely rely on the principle of reciprocity in what concerns

diplomatic missions, in most european countries the number of russian diplomats is much greater than the number those who work in the embassies of european states in moscow, and the majority of those who work in the extreme at this stage, it is 100%, are those who use diplomatic... status in order to implement that policy and by those methods that are unacceptable from the point of view of the same vienna convention, in itself, the decision, which by the way has been taken by many european states recently, to limit this number, it hits much harder on the capabilities of russia, precisely to impose these wrong, false and pure propaganda theses. finally, i will ask an off-topic question, thank you for commenting on this story that happened due to the presence

of veteran yaroslav hunka in canada, well, actually , we need to act and we need to build communication correctly, first of all, with our partners and , well, speak facts, again anyway, rather than simply accept any unspoken accusations of nazism, which was not present in the activities of this division at that time, because it fought again on the battlefield against the soviet army, that is, it fought for the way it was, but i know i don't know where you were, but now i'm just not in the united states of america and you have your contacts and your conversations there, i 'd like your opinion, we literally have a few, well, 3-4 minutes, but i'd like your opinion about this situation that exists now, is there really weak support for ukraine, first of all, in the government and in the us congress, are there currently certain problematic points that need to be resolved, in what, why did something get stuck there, what, well, i i proceed from the fact that we do not receive, let's say now these 6 billion in the temporary budget, and there is a plus there do you have any advice for ukraine to refrain from corruption and begin to overcome it, is this hanging over and american issues really come first now, or are there some other reasons, is everything

normal, as the ukrainian ambassador to the usa, mrs. markarova, says, no, nothing is normal not here, she's trying to reassure us all of course, and she's kind of right in that view , ultimately, the majority in congress in the united states, both the overwhelming majority of the democrats and the majority of the republicans, are in favor of continuing help, but there is a very serious narrative used by the most radical supporters of trump, which boils down to the fact that the united states should simply mind its own business, and in fact there is a line to abdication of world leadership, ukraine becomes a victim of this narrative, and we have indeed , there is a huge threat if trump becomes... president, it will be a threat not only to further assistance to ukraine, but also to the established

world order in general, including the strength of nato. that is why we are part of these processes here and that is why i believe that in particular, it is necessary to withdraw ukraine from this discourse , where ukraine is used to solve completely different issues, this is a very difficult, difficult task, but it is precisely on this that we must concentrate, because the level of support and the duration of this support depend on it , given that we are not yet in a position to say that in the near future a solution will be found to end the war on terms that will be acceptable to ukraine. therefore, constant support from the united states, which will be based, of course, on reporting from our side, clarity and transparency is something that is a priority for all of us. and do you hear rumors about

possible contacts between washington and moscow at some level there. i know whether it is still not discussed, because the thesis that there is no vision and no strategy for ending the war in ukraine , well, maybe even among our partners, it sounds in ukraine now, well, it is objective, it is difficult to predict how it can be ended war, apart from the fact that it is necessary to win, and it is necessary to win in such a way that, of course, there are the least number of hits from the ukrainian side, but at the same time, without surrendering our most principled national, not so much as interests, but simply our ability to exist as an independent state that is able to choose its own place in the world. therefore, on the one hand, this is understood by all smart politicians, all those who traditionally support ukraine and those who simply understand how much of a threat

from russia is, extremely, fateful from the point of view of the future of the united states itself, european states, and therefore, i think we have all the possibilities to maintain the high level of assistance that is provided today, but at the same time, the first stage of admiration for ukraine is gone, in order to maintain this support, it is necessary to constantly find new arguments, new ways. to convince our partners, and this is also a part of professional work at the highest political level of ukraine, but at the same time, i believe that it is possible to more effectively use our diplomatic tool, our ministry of foreign affairs, embassies, all those who work on the foreign policy front . thank you very much for joining, take care, i wish you well

day, kostyantyn hryshchenko was with us, the ambassador extraordinary and plenipotentiary of ukraine, the ukrainian embassy represented ukraine in brussels, in washington, in moscow, he was the minister of foreign affairs of ukraine in 2003-2005 under yushchenko, and then in 2000-10-2012 he was engaged in in yanukovych's government, the issue of european integration, but do you remember that yanukovych buried european integration, mr. hryshchenko was then dismissed from the government, then kozhara came, well, he is such a famous minister of foreign affairs, let me remind you, who was disgraced at one time during the maidan, we talked about an important topic, in fact, we are talking about the division of the sss galicia, i think it will still rise, ukraine must correctly, clearly, with facts, but defend its right to history, we are a big state with a huge history, especially in difficult times periods that were, we have to show what we did and where we were, but definitely not to be tolerated and not to be victimized, especially by those people who committed crimes themselves, i mean, you know who, thanks for being with by me,

it was a worldview program, i am with you for a while until the evening until 18.10, don't miss the big ether, and be with esso. greetings everyone from espresso, it's time to find out about the most important news of the moment, and i'll start with this: russian terrorists fired. at least 10 blows were inflicted on a lopanny cossack in kharkiv oblast. previously, they were beaten from tanks, vyacheslav zadorenko, head of the dergachiv city military administration, said. approximately 10 private houses and commercial structures were damaged, as well as power lines, part of the village was without electricity.