[000:00:00;00] the mother of a young russian man who was accused of war crimes , that she might have influenced his attitude, his actions, or his decision to join the army, the emphasis in this story is on the mother who loses her son, and this is what puts them in similar, similar conditions, well, even more tense. it happened when anna applebown was also asked a question from the hall, and the audience member said that she had a lot of russian friends, she lived somewhere abroad, and all these russian friends who called themselves liberals, but they weren't even asked after the start of a full-scale invasion, how is she, is she alive, instead, they became concerned not with solving the situation, but if they took responsibility away from themselves, if they also

imposed the status of victims on themselves, which i think ms. anna reacted enough, well, she , yes, she did not like this question, and here i once again visualized this problem of ours, so when our speakers, cultural diplomats talk about how they are trying to prove something to someone abroad, and they are called radical there, too emotional that you're traumatized, in general, it's racism to reduce the entire russian nation to some... absolutely savages, uncivilized people who can't change, and here ms. ann, let's finally listen to what she said, i prefer , so that we stay on the plane of ideas, there can be an idea of ​​another russia, a nation based on the values ​​that you have adopted in ukraine, and i refuse, i refuse to accept that someone

inherits evil through mother's milk or any such formula, similar i think this is very important for ukrainians remember, you can be from russia , but have different ideas about your country, well , we will talk about this whole situation in more detail, we have discussed it before and we will discuss it more than once, we will discuss the issue of communication, how can we continue to convince people, foreigners, especially those who support us, and not to destroy their trust, not to destroy this friendship between us , how, how to prove our agenda, our opinion, which, let's be honest, is not accepted in intellectual circles, in particular, we we will also talk with my colleague, a journalist, from to the poet olena huseinova, olena , hello, hello, now we're going to fight again, yes, to say that no one understands us, but the situation seems to me from one side, sometimes i fall

into the beginning. when i hear such things there, especially when foreigners support those whom we call good russians, that is, when we understand that these people are not oppositionists, and we have caught them more than once on some absolutely stupid theses, like yulia latynina , who once again tweeted some nonsense , but still, if we are talking about the same mrs. applebaum, this is a person who is very aware of our... situation, this is not the same person who does not know at all what is happening here in ukraine, and here she is also you, well, as it turned out , in many points, key issues, does not support us, and therefore i have a question, why do you think that foreigners still do not understand us in this rather radical negative attitude towards russians, hello, hello, and i want

to say right away for the audience, which, unfortunately, i cannot assess, and what happened at the discussion, about which you say, because at the book forum, journalists, as a rule and in general, people who work in the book field, they create to a large extent these events, to which consumers of the book cultural product come, and i missed this discussion, because in at this moment in the radioculture studio, the guest was writing, and our other colleague from great britain , charlotte higgins, she is the main cultural columnist of the guardians, she wrote a lot in her life, for example, about classical music, but if you write about classical music, then obviously you , you work with russian a cultural product and you work with those who promote it, represent it, who talk about it, and charlotte has been very consistent

in saying things that are ... important to us, she's actually been saying since the beginning of the full-scale invasion that this is a culture war , and the war is not fought over resources, it is fought around the topic of culture and for culture, this is our cultural war. she very quickly begins to analyze the pages of the guardian, the post-colonial contexts of this war and our anti-imperial resistance. and i, she's quite so radical, she for example, he says that, don't try with ukrainians, he writes in one of the texts, to talk about mysterious russian. to the soul, because they will immediately tell you the word shit, ugh, uh, and, and she does it fearlessly , and i asked her exactly this fearlessness, and she said: no, all my, i am my support for ukraine, and theses

that i express, in particular, those related to russian culture and the relationship between ukrainian and russian culture, never caused aggression, and that the only aggression she experienced, but it was actually almost... uh, a bullying campaign, when she wrote on twitter that she started learning ukrainian, and then suddenly there were very, very many comments on twitter and very aggressive ones about the fact that she supports the fascists there, and around that in a certain types of speech, functioning, structuring of speech, it all revolved, and while she was speaking, the conversation was very ironic, she was joking about herself, but there was a lot of self-irony, but suddenly she stopped being self-ironic, i realized that she experienced - a certain pain, and she suddenly started talking about

it, that it was extremely unpleasant, but, but i immediately thought that i have nothing to complain about, because my friends in ukraine are going through worse things, but what does this say, why i bring this up now, it suggests that part of the information space that operates in - westerns, for westerns, yes, in western europe, in great britain or in america, it's saturated with someone with a very clear agenda, and, that is, somehow configured algorithms, or there are some kind of botarma there, which is managed. when a visible journalist talks about the fact that she started learning the ukrainian language, it is not just saying that it is a colonial war, it is becoming one of the experts, it is demonstrating a very

mature attitude towards this culture, it is accepting it, making it one's own culture to a large extent, yes, there are people who are ready to attack this decision, and this says that this space, it is very complex, and probably we still do not fully understand it, we do not fully understand how anti-ukrainian narratives and pro-russian narratives are created, function and spread in the information space in european countries in great britain or in the united states, or in asia or in latin america, considering that we have many countries, if we concentrate in communication there on european countries, okay, there to the united states, but if we talk about the conventional global south there , we didn’t have a problem there at all, there was also some pro az, some other things there, but here are a few

writers who are now in book form, they now they are discussing on the sidelines their trains to the countries of the global south, that is, this is the kind of work on which, in particular, our colleagues in book form are also working for ours, and what are they, to put it generally, they are in? what did they see there, what in general, these are trips that are just being prepared, so we will wait, iryna tsylyk returned from mexico, and she generously shared her observations, but i am to the point that we do not understand how this information circulates, in i have a feeling that we do not fully understand, and sometimes do not understand at all, how this or that of our thesis, which we publicly voice for western communities, western media, or in the american, or british, or even not in the western , in general, in the world, not ukrainian, in the outside world, we do not know what it causes, what structures start to work, how it starts to be interpreted, where they talk about it, where they write about it, what kind

of context it acquires and grows, and what , this territory appeared, where there was a discussion with, where we did not get along with apple bom, or where we did not get along with slavenka drakulich, this is a very dangerous signal, it seems to me means, it seems to me, that we have to understand what is happening in this communication field. and until we understand, we don't have the tools with which we can fearlessly go into this field, because saying what you think and what really is is a good thing, but if we get into a situation where our words are changing, our words are being reinterpreted , or from our sentences, for example, quotations in some: western media is losing the particle no,

not, or some other things are happening, or some very specific context is being added, so uh, being honest and saying very necessary things, we can probably do something, uh, the outcome of which we can't appreciate, uh, or the outcome of which we don't, won't like, because every time our speakers. .. they are trying to convey this thesis to the people on this panel, it was also about the fact that russia cannot be changed , it has to be done there, well, no one understands what needs to be done, but these people, they are in many ways inconsiderate, here the speakers are trying to explain it, some from a political point of view, some from a philosophical point of view, and this topic is super not is perceived even by people who sympathize with us, because it seems so barbaric that you can make the whole nation so dangerous, i don't know if you hear that

the rhetoric that a nation is incurable, it is dangerous, and obviously, again, i am not ready to analyze this discussion, because it is necessary to find time to listen to it, and this is also a good moment, which we can say, you did not miss all these discussions, you missed the moment, friends, when you can to return them, they are all recorded, will be, there will be access to them and it is possible will listen to it all again, because this phrase... it even confuses me, and if i try to imagine that it is not me who hears it, but some conditional researcher of totalitarian crimes, who writes books about it, let's not even, well, conditional , yes, uh, if i try to listen with such an ear , then this thesis is even more dangerous, well, at least it sounds russian, and, therefore, i would, for me, the question of what is happening with russian culture... it is open, and for me, i am very confused that it could be

allowed, what happened in, let's say, there in in the 90-third year, that it happened so easily, and that after , let's say, parliamentarism disappeared from the history of russian politics, no one, nor did anything begin that could bring this parliamentarism back, or that demonstrated the community's understanding of what they had lost something, something irreparably important, or when the chechen military campaign began, and i, too, there were much more reactions, but nevertheless, they did not turn into something that would give signals to the community, and i am more confused that the russian poetry. and

because i'm thinking about us, thinking about what provided an opportunity for this dialogue within ukrainian society, for example, i am thinking about poetry that was not political in the 90s, it was very, it was love lyrics very often, or just poetry that spoke to what we lived in, to some existential questions and contexts, but... what was happening with language was happening, this rift was happening where you saw real life seeping through a lot of things, let's say through dungeons, and those that were there in the 90s on television, and this gap in language, there, which can make only artistic writing and poetry in the first place, he gave the territory of freedom from which such... already imperceptible, it seems to me that a lot of things begin in

poetry, in particular and in fiction in general, and for me the question is why all these quite successful russian writers with large circulations of books, with large audiences who came to listen to their poetry, could not untie this territory of language so much that some social processes took place there, and is it obvious that this is connected with the fact that it a culture in which violence is special the status, and er, and this is obviously a problem, of russian culture. how to work with this, and we do not see, i do not see, at least, that work with this is taking place, or that it would be somehow effective, i have said this many times, that for me, the territory is russian, for me, it is the military that passes the border, there are private soldiers

from ukraine who enter ukrainian cities and commit russian war crimes, a little, they scare me a little less. than russian intellectuals, who could not create such a space in culture for these people, anywhere they could have protected themselves from having to become war criminals, i don't know if that phrase was clear, me too, by the way, it confuses me, because when i see people, the russian military, they're just there , it's clear what they're doing, yes , especially those that are under the influence of propaganda, and when you come into contact with people, they can be interpreted there as intellectuals with educated people who speak different languages, who know literature, philosophy and so on, and you understand that they are not often do not really understand what they are talking about

missed it, here it becomes a little bit like that these, military, russian russian soldiers who enter ukraine, this is a person they did not look out for, they are like those who work with the word: with culture, with education, with media, they who responsible for this entire space, they should have protected this person with all this, so that she knew for sure that this could not be done, and she could resist, and what is happening now is a whole class of people who would not protect those, uh- eh, those for whom they had, whom they should watch over in the power of his profession, but at the same time, alenko, look, eh, we have talked more than once about the fact that our influence is losing for the time being, yes, well, if we talk about culture, about some intellectual things, after all, they are stronger now for us, well, if only because they had been doing it consistently for a long time, they were building names for themselves, while we were sitting here, stewing in ourselves there and not paying attention to culture at all, because it is something out of time, it is some kind of bullshit,

yes we had a bow at the end, at the end of the news releases, if we are talking about journalism, you take off the bow, it there's oksana zabuchka, this is a bow with us , and they were engaged in it, so, accordingly , masha heson herself already has a big enough name and influence, and we're just starting to do it, just starting to catch up, like you see this process, if you take the last year and a half, yes, when we broke up, forgive me, there is progress, we are gaining weight at the international level, i think that we broke up in the 14th year, still a little. yes, and i think that and even more, that is, in the 14th year, we broke up at the level of institutions, we began to build them, on in the 22nd year, these were still young institutions, which for a part of those almost ten, almost eight years at that time, were just dealing

with their framework, but, just to understand the structure of these institutions, there could not be big actions yet, because they are newborns the institutions that were supposed to... deal with this soft power, external communications, representation of ukrainian culture, development of discourse, these are all very young platforms and people who are engaged in it have only just begun to engage in this, but we must not forget everything that was from 91, and that relied on personal charisma, well, this is one of you, for example, because i recently had one of these institutions, an institute, they are already opening a representative office in paris, and the person who deals with this in particular told me that in fact we almost were almost invisible in france all these years of our independence, well, let's say, slovianka drakulich, who comes to ukraine, is

slovianka drakulich, whom oksana zabushko met in the 90s at one of the festivals, and the fact that slavyanka did not lose contact with her such, when it became possible in her book and for her to come to ukraine, she continued this dialogue, this is obviously based on how they met, or claudia date, a german translator who made incredible efforts for the presence of ukrainian culture in general for many, many years in a row, without any institutional support, but after february 24, 2022, these efforts were simply incredible, just to translate... make this tape in ukrainian into german news for those who came, this is the translator of yuriy andruhovych, everyone otherwise, obviously, these are private things, but everything would be explained as it was explained and it led us to where it led us, we are very young in this

sense, we are very young in how we present ourselves, how we talk about ourselves, and we do not understand , it seems to me that we do not understand how it is arranged, and from the fact that we do not understand how this information space is arranged, and we, in the end , do not have enough resources, we lose. because we don't do this post-production, and as there is production, then post-production, and then distribution, and this is about cinema, when it says, so, in my opinion, we are already a little better with simple productions, with distributions anyway , we still have problems, and here we are talking about an idea, an idea that seems to us to be saving and so working, on some international platforms, and we can express it, but... shape it further so that it becomes, i will say this word now, but probably a better word, viral and visible, which everyone would like to support, we do not

have enough resources, already the resource for that it entered everyone 's head, every tv, every morning newspaper, especially since we don't have enough, and i'm not sure, but i have a feeling that those who work for russian culture have this resource and yes, i also had the same thought, but i just see that we are working, we are making progress, it seems to me that we are missing a lot, we talked with you before the broadcast , the discussion was first professional, closed, then broader, and we have literally five minutes left and i want to talk to you about perception of literature in the middle of the country, because it has strengthened and those literary shenanigans that constantly happen in our country, on the one hand, they confuse me, on the other hand, they make me happy, because so many people who were never interested in ukrainian literature at all,

even started reading, went to read kurkov after this recent scandal, you said in the introduction that if you have never been to the book arsenal, it looks like a sea of ​​people, events, a sea of ​​people there, but it was not always like that, that is, it is actually such a discovery, recent, that such large audiences at poetic... on literary at readings, at discussions, i really see , perhaps for the first time, such attention, such desire to hear, such desire, to discuss, to understand, i have not seen it before, and it seems to me that execution is the reverse side of this, and if everyone came and listened, read some writer, then even at the moment when more complicated things happen, such ambiguous things, theses are expressed, the audience of this ambiguity is also not the same as it was 10, 10 years ago, when it

was you, me and someone else- our friend and her friend, and now all these people who come to listen to poetry, readings, or a literary discussion or a cultural discussion, they then follow the rest of the context, and our degree is a little not so simple, and we are still... a little too ourselves, not us, globally , not you and i, yes, but the community reacts a little too sharply, you mentioned, kurkov kurkova, and despite the fact that i don’t, i don’t understand his decision, yes, masha, it’s about our viewers, i’ll tell you what it’s about, i’ll remind you, you may have heard, mr. andriy agreed to a discussion with masha heson, masha heson is a journalist, who, my god, am i with these

non-binary people in the ukrainian language, they should be called, in the process of working out, yes, binary people, they should say, but i did not understand how then the journalists, in a word, these are the journalists who, in may, made a whole mess around, well, rejection, around the decision our ukrainian writers, who came to new york for the festival, did not refuse to participate in this festival, because various russian representatives took part there, and the organizers had to apologize to our ukrainians and ask them to leave the russian and masha hesen, who were moderating, should have moderated this discussion of theirs, were very indignant and started talking everywhere on sufficiently authoritative platforms about cruel ukrainian authors who slander their russian colleagues, masha hesen's reaction was such that we got the ucrainian cruel writers meme , cruel ukrainian writers, and this meme

, it was not born from the wit of masha hesen, it was born from ... from the mockery of a comment made by anton chipai, who said that he, as a military man, was signing a document that he would not have contacts with citizens of russia, and this phrase was twisted, changed, turned into an unreliable one, with which, they say, our writers are forbidden, almost under the fear of not knowing what, and this is such a game with information, it seems to me the most terrible, and we do not understand how it happens and we now what i'm talking about, we can't control it, and we can't, the situation , what's happened in reality, we can't show it in the media, we still don't have the tools, the channels, enough allies, and precisely because what masha gesyn did led to another fake regarding a very

transparent and very understandable situation in which they were involved. ukrainian writers and that is why she seemed to me, they seem to me, not the interlocutors with whom you can be on the same panel, but despite the fact that i do not understand andriy kurkov's position, it seems to me that he has not done anything that would have to cause such a wave of hate, there is that, there is the rhetoric that andrii cheh chose and it was exactly what it could have been, and there is the rhetoric of the shit that appeared after, who already said that we will not be able to understand each other, or in the end understand why andriy made such a decision , because there is this wave between us, who have questions, and andriy, who can give an answer, and what should we do , so that the waves do not prevent us from understanding each other, because obviously the issue of communication with colleagues from russia, with the russians, it must find some form, but

for now between the one who wants to ask and the one... who is ready to answer, this senseless aggressive wave will grow, nothing will happen, and here is an interesting question, from where this wave is appearing, and i, as a person who survived the russian wave, it seems to me that we need to think about whether there is also some structure or behind or configuration of the information space that we do not notice, and where we do not are his masters, what is it all? olenka, thank you, we talked about the lviv book forum, i will also say about these literary events, on the one hand, yes, they popularize literature, popularize, popularize reading, of course, but on the other hand, let's reduce the degree, but if reduce it, turn it down, i suggest just before you are going to write to yourself on some topic on facebook, instagram or

twitter, please study this topic very well, and maybe you don't know it a little well, watch all the speakers, who speak on this topic, people who are engaged in literature professionally, maybe your point of view is really too emotional and you will change it when you investigate this situation, and it is definitely worth going to book forms, but you think that we have writers, and there were some, and already have increased their popularity so much that sometimes you have to come even 20 minutes before... the event, or take a seat, because i was recently in kyiv for oksana zabushko's performance, i was a little late and had to sit on the stairs, because the rock star is already ms. oksana, mr. andruhovych, and mr. zhadan and everyone, it's very cool, so go to book events, they are extremely interesting now. that's it , friends, i say goodbye, stay with the espresso,

see you. greetings, dear viewers, this is news, anna yavamelnik is with you, and we begin with happening in israel, at least 40 israelis were killed and more than 700 wounded are in hospitals due to an attack by hamas terrorists, the country's defense army said that it attacked 17 military facilities and four operational headquarters of the militants in the gaza strip. the leadership of hamas assures that their losses amount to almost two hundred palestinians. the cleansing of israeli cities from terrorists is still ongoing. militants of the radical palestinian group hamas launched attacks from the gaza strip in the morning. they massively hit