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we are already continuing the saturday political club on espresso tv channels. andriy daschytsia, diplomat, former head of the ministry of foreign affairs, mr. andriy is in touch with us, congratulations. good evening, congratulations. well, let's continue this topic, which we discuss all the time. mr. andriy, let's try to understand, maybe what is happening in the middle east is part of some global conflict, more seriously, we have always said that, in principle, now moscow and tygaran are interested in what. the conflict around ukraine has become global because it is a conflict between moscow and the west, between democracies and dictatorships, and it is necessary that such hot zones be created in different parts of the world that can explode, maybe tomorrow something will happen in the far east, relatively speaking, somewhere, let's see, quite likely, quite likely, obviously russia may be interested, most likely, interested in diverting attention... from the topic of supporting ukraine, because and

in general diverting attention from ukraine, as such, so now the whole world is obviously watching what is happening in israel, and in the case of , if the situation continues there to escalate, it is possible that israel will need some kind of help, and therefore it will certainly be reduced for ukraine, that's for sure. moscow is interested, we do not exclude such a scenario, okay, we understand that all the attention of the world is now drawn to israel, what should ukraine do instead, because, well, here we need to understand how prepared we are to reduce aid, because of this from the same side, from the side of european countries, from the side of america, possible, which we will talk about in the same way, so what to do with ukraine, how

resist the diversion of attention from ukraine? well, look, i think that ukraine needs to do what ukraine has done since the first days of large-scale aggression, rely first on its own strength, and that's what ultimately happened in the first few days, when the world expected that ukraine would not withstand the russian onslaught , but it did not happen. and obviously now we have much more difficult tasks ahead of us, we need to think about how to increase the number of weapons produced in ukraine, how we need to think about how to spend more funds in the budget also on issues of defense and security, we need to think about how, after all...

even though the world's attention may be distracted, and not only about what might happen, whether there are conflicts... others regions of the world, but also on issues of the election campaign, the domestic political situation in various countries, and therefore we will have to think about how, despite these processes, to convince our partners, our allies , to continue supporting ukraine, therefore that in case of victory of ukraine, over russia, we will be able to solve the rest of the global conflicts as well, because the way it was , even earlier, all these conflicts that took place in the space of the former soviet union, or in

the space of the former obs-, not the former, in the space of the obs, they were all provoked by russia, and russia fueled them in order to have leverage...' but if we, ukraine, with the support of the west, defeat russia, then ways will be found to resolve conflicts in other regions. tell me, mr. andriy, how it looks today in your opinion election campaign in poland, if we talk about its foreign policy vector and possible development? well, unfortunately, this political campaign, the election campaign in poland has caused a lot of statements, which are also anti-ukrainian in nature, in general, of course, they are more directed at e, the rejection of migrants, and the concentration,

support, of their producers , his electorate, and his people, and protection and security for poland and the polish people, but nevertheless. it also affected the issue of ukrainian-polish relations and the issue of ukrainians in poland and the issue of ukraine, but the situation in reality , i hope, and everyone hopes, will become less emotional after october 15, after the election day, and the statements that came out of the mouths of polish politicians, they will no longer be like that. . are aggressive, but we must remember that, unfortunately, the current situation with the support of political forces in poland is such that it is possible that the electoral process will not end in a week,

it is not excluded that none of the political forces will be able to form a majority parliaments, to form accordingly a new government, which means that poland will face new elections and that such a period of turbulence will continue. is it worth mentioning the party, the confederacy? because it looks dangerous from the point of view of ukraine. so, what is the probability that, in the end, it, and there the number, the number of votes and the number of seats, will be so significant that after the elections, the attitude of poland towards ukraine and the diplomatic relations between ukraine and poland will not improve, see, in fact, the support for the confederation , the confederacy party, may be crucial to the formation

of a new government, it is not being talked about yet, and the active, active , ruling coalition of peace has declared that they will be ready to form a government themselves, obviously each of the political forces is talking about it, but peace has the most support and probably receives the largest number of votes, during the elections, but as sociological polls show, now this support and these votes will not be enough to independently form a government, and then their biggest ally, which can be in the formation of a new coalition ally in the formation the new government may be the confederation, and this already carries a certain danger, not only for ukraine, in the end, but also a danger for poland's relations with the european union, for

poland's migration policy in general, and uh, well, we'll see anyway , as much as this support for the confederation will be... great in a week, now there is a tendency for this support to decrease, instead, support for the political forces that are in opposition is increasing. direct to the existing government, it is first of all a civil platform or a party or a political bloc, the third dear, this is the peasant party, and the party, shimon's main 2050, and the union of left forces, that is, their support is growing, especially after last week's big... march, a million hearts, and maybe this trend will continue,

if this happens, then the chances on the entry of the confederation into the government will be small, but for sure, this is still a rather serious signal, a wake-up call that such support for such an anti-democratic, anti-immigration populist force as the confederation, our limit is somewhere around 10%, well enough, quite dangerous, here comes the question why national parties in european countries cannot unite their efforts in general so as not to become hostages of radical forces, we see that because they are too democratic, because we see that this is now happening in spain , where in fact both major parties, hostages of regional political forces there and forced to take unpopular steps to stay in power instead of joining forces because they hate each other, in poland the same in fact, we meet with two parties,

who could calmly agree among themselves, find some government of understanding, but they hate each other so much that yaroslav kaczyński's party, donald tusk's coalition, that even imagining that they would agree on something is now impossible, and they are united in support of ukraine, in the confrontation with russia, well, nothing good comes out of this, as we can see, no, well, you see, mr. vitaliy, in fact, they united to a certain extent a year and a half ago, that is, politics, and writing and civil platform, in matters of support for ukraine and opposition russian aggression was quite unified, and the votes that took place in the polish parliament on new laws, and the allocation of permits to increase the budget.

for arms, allocation of permits and consent to the transfer of arms to ukraine , they were supported by the ruling coalition and then the largest opposition party, the civil platform, i.e. if in fact there is a serious external threat, which is still, was and continues to be russia, then they can to unite, i hope that, actually, this common sense will win over these populist ones statements that are characteristic of the election campaign, and then we can see, if there really will be a serious threat to ukraine, a serious threat to poland from russia, then their efforts to make joint decisions will certainly be more effective and productive, but really there must be only some serious threat to prevent some radical populist forces in the politics of certain states?

well, unfortunately, it seems, not only in poland, that until then, until they heard her fried, until then, i apologize for such slang, but until then, well, they are fighting among themselves, and not understanding what is actually taking advantage of this, the third son is taking advantage of this struggle. in this case, moscow, as far as it is possible to say in principle that when the polish elections are held and when, say, the new governments of slovakia and poland are formed, we can see such, i would say the visegrad coalition, the right-wing visegrad coalition, kaczynski, orban, fitzo, and to what extent will this coalition be able to stay in the fairway of supporting ukraine? well, you see, now, well, it can all change,

because before the large-scale aggression of russia, there were very close ties between warsaw and budapest, but after the start of military operations , after february 22, after february 24, 22, orban and moravetsky did not find a common language , now the situation... will change, because they are now more focused on, at least in the statements they make, during the election campaign, to strengthen ... in slovakia, the government will change and the fitz government will be formed, which they can do among themselves to negotiate in order to produce, or conduct some of our own, conduct some of our own regional policy, er, to a large extent

it can also be a policy that will oppose the policy of brussels, the european union. because they will want to show their strength and their power in front of the european commission, but you know, well, again, i hope that this is all for now only, in these emotional populist statements that have been made, this is only the result of the election campaign, and when. .. this temperature will drop a little, common sense will still dominate, in making decisions on and support for ukraine, and the introduction of a unified policy of the european union, the foreign policy of the european union. well, there is a week left before the elections in poland,

there is not much left to wait, actually, but we cannot but talk with you about one more topic, no less important, about. the support of ukraine by the united states of america is also a rumor, the story is that in the united states they removed the speaker of the house of representatives, and one of the reasons why they did it was his position on ukraine, such scandals surrounding aid to ukraine, this is a beacon of what they are signaling ? well it's new realities, that is, this is that, to a certain extent... the political elites in the world are already , let's say, a little tired of the war, although they don't talk about it publicly, although they don't talk about it, in negotiations with our high-ranking officials, but not

less, some political forces believe that it is enough, we have helped ukraine , and now we have to find ways to end this war, end, maybe not support, but a decrease in support, and this is certainly a signal that the internal political processes taking place in many countries the countries of our allies, they cannot always be... fairways of the idea or direction of the theme of support for ukraine. well, many people can speculate on this, that now let 's pay more attention and solve internal political and economic issues, and the issue of ukraine, well,

it will be resolved somehow. and that is why we face a rather big and important task to , together with our partners who firmly stand on the positions of ukraine, prevent such a change of position in other countries, especially in such influential ones as the united states, great britain or poland. thank you, mr. andriy, andriy dyshchytsia, diplomat , former head of the ministry of foreign affairs of ukraine, ambassador of ukraine to poland , was on the air with ulyadai, and now we will talk with pyotr shevchenko, analyst, graduate student. he will join us there at the department of international economics of the tsilinsky university, but instead, mr. andrii said something quite important about the fact that ukraine should rely only on itself and be ready for the possibility that one day we will be helped much less than they help now, but realistically,

will ukraine be able to stand up for itself, well, it will be determined by the moment when it will happen? and the situation that will be in the world at this moment, if there will be a large number of crises in the world, the attention of not only the united states or the european union, but russia will be drawn to this large number of crises. in principle, we are approaching the situation of such, i would say, permanent conflicts , we see that when at the beginning of the war, between russia and ukraine, i spoke about the fact that it was only a prelude and everyone said that i was just there, relatively speaking, uh, i try to paint the situation in black paint, that this is exclusively such a russian-ukrainian story, he says that no, it's just like that, first, it's like before the rain, it just starts to fall. the first drops, and we will still see a thunderstorm, it is not yet a thunderstorm, it is just raining, but for the world, for global security, there will be another thunderstorm, and in principle, i think that what we see in the middle east is already

the beginning of a thunderstorm, we can already hear such discharges of thunder, but we have not yet seen, the thunder has not yet thundered, as if there was no lightning yet, this everything is just the beginning, simply because this is how world politics looks now, and by the way, not without participation. putin and his example, that many things can be solved by force, that there is no need for all these agreements, that's what the hamas press secretary says there, that now there are many mediators who want to somehow stop all this, but for now we will solve our problems on the battlefield, this is practically the same as what lavrov or medvedev says, in the same words, because it is no longer interesting, all these peace talks, all... these searches for compromises, if something can be achieved on the battlefield, or an economic effect, or a military effect, even psychologically, then why not go to

war, the values ​​themselves have changed, the 21st century will be a time of permanent wars, this is simply necessary for the people who live in this 21st century, not only ukrainians, it's just a matter of realizing it, accepting it, having a troubling suitcase, bequeathing all this to everyone on the planet, well, many reginos. no, well, there are maybe some regions that are there, i don't see, just where they are, before we said australia and new zealand, now australia and new zealand are part of the united states military alliance against the people's republic of china, so it might be tempting to hide, hide somewhere, but i can't give you a specific geographical direction right now, where you'll survive, well, rather after all, if elon musk still starts some flights to mars, then before the pelonization of mars, it will be a more or less safe place. the same land, at least in the first half of the 21st century , will not be a peaceful place, well, such a dialectic, no problem, this is not the first such historical

period in the history of mankind, mankind has survived even in more difficult situations than the one in which we find ourselves now, well, considering what you just said, a question arises, here something similar to what i asked mr. andriy, nevertheless , how ukraine should change its i don't know, strategic communications with western partners, so that they continue to help us as long as possible. i think what we need, by and large, is what we see in israel now, national unity, a government of national unity, a joint work on reforms, you know, now the leader of the israeli opposition turned to the prime minister with a proposal to create such a government, but when it happened, at the meeting of the prime minister with the leader of the opposition, where... in the presence of the heads of the security agencies , the prime minister, informed the leader of the opposition about what was happening at the front, this was the first thing he did, one of the first actions, by the way, our president also

met with the leaders of the parliamentary factions literally for the first hours after the war began, but this can't be simple momentary, it should be a structured decision, a structured joining of efforts around that support for ukraine , which we need not just to win, but to survive, we need to call it by its names, it is not support, in order for us to receive there an undeniable victory over the russian federation, the final meaning of which everyone determines for himself, because we cannot determine it collectively, taking into account the complexity of the events and the task, and the most important thing is that we must have such support for the sake of the survival of the ukrainian state and ukrainian people, because i always emphasize that this is not a constant at all, and if we assume that it is a constant, we may find ourselves in a situation on... israeli friends, who were also sure that after so many military

victories, and after so many peace agreements, and there is also an iron dome, and there is also an iron dome, and there are also security tunnels, that it is already completely safe for the civilian population, and nothing can happen, and if something happens , then it is only in some very close ones. to the sector gas territories, well, then people decide for themselves whether they live in such places or not , you can say that, i was from derotsi, by the way , which they walk on now, they don’t walk anymore, there are street fights there, i used to go specially before not because it is some kind of city with architectural monuments, but because i just wanted to see, as a journalist and as a jew, how people live in a city, which one? er , every day there for several days in a row, it is met with some kind of rocket fire, children love it instead of kindergartens

and the schools are sitting in the bean warehouses, and there was really a very difficult atmosphere, a very difficult atmosphere, it was visible, i just arrived after another rocket attack and escaped with the ambulances, and it was difficult, i thought that i was already used to some war-like things in the middle east and in the former yugoslavia, and that i was used to such an atmosphere, but i realized that it is very difficult to live in poverty, but nearby in cities that are nearby, there was no even... the pressure of war and danger and so when i hear there that now, that there hamas militants entered netzivot, which i also visited, because it is there, one of the main such centers of moroccan jewry, and there people lived in such a peaceful situation, without even feeling that there was such a danger nearby, and here it turns out , that they may not be in the same situation

as the residents of the depressed. it's great that it's enough to change a little, the political war situation, someone miss something, someone doesn't understand something and that's it, you find yourself in a trap, and ukrainians must understand this, because we we perceive our situation as some kind of constant, and there is already such a perception, you know, of course, the war is going on somewhere in the east, in the eastern and southern regions, like this, so there is a line of confrontation, here are the people who are in the line. under shelling with a risk to life, well, they live there, well, they can go somewhere , but here i more or less find myself in a peaceful place, also with grief, with military funerals, with tragedies, but it is a peaceful life there, the only thing there rocket attacks, you have to hide in the bomb shelter, if i have one decision, but if the situation changes radically, then we remember where the russians were until recently, a few months ago,

they were in kherson, they... to the north, and if we do not have sufficient military aid, if we have there will be no opportunities to respond to one or another of their actions, then they will not limit themselves to missile attacks and drones, they will try to advance, advance in those areas that may seem very safe to us now, there are a huge number of options that today can seem fantastic but nowhere, which nowhere... disappeared, and at the same time, putin's speech in valdai also indicates that they do not give up their plans completely, they have a political plan that they want to implement, which by and large creates the putin's rating, which we see, on the other hand, we understand very well that if putin abandons this plan, then nothing is in danger for him either, the russians will love

him for telling them. beat, this is a completely special relationship between the ruler and the people, so putin is unlike, say, of the so-called electoral politicians who think about their future, from biden of chile, from sunak or scholz, in principle has much more opportunities to maneuver in any direction than politicians who go through real parliamentary or presidential elections, i.e. putin himself creates problems for himself, which then you yourself according to the plan of action of his administration, this is a huge problem that we have with such, he fights with windmills, he fights with windmills, well, by the way, well, like the leaders, you understand, like the palestinian leaders, i already mentioned it here too aria zayden in our conversation about how things happened after the so-called democratic elections in the palestinian authority, but the truth is that

there were never any more elections. and that hamas, which won that election, never came to power in the fullness of this palestinian autonomy, so we can imagine that there is, say, a large area of ​​the west bank, and there is a completely different political force in charge, but the majority of the population may remain sympathetic to hamas, which runs the gas sector. how can effective management be carried out then. such a territory, this is the first question. the second question is how to negotiate with the leadership of such a territory, which in principle does not represent anyone except himself, the leader of the palestinian authority mahmoud abaas has been there for many years, he has not been elected anywhere, he just gets power there, but he is a very old man , he can...