[000:00:00;00] for the audience, which, unfortunately, i cannot assess, what happened at the discussion you are talking about, because in the book form, journalists, as a rule, and in general people who work in the book field, they, er, create a large to the extent that these events are attended by consumers of the book cultural product, and i missed this discussion, because at that moment in the radio culture studio, another of our colleagues from great britain, charlotte higgins, she is the main cultural reviewer of the guardians, was writing a lot in his life wrote, for example, about classical music, but if you write about classical music, then obviously you work with a russian cultural product and work with those who promote it, represent it, who speak about it, and charlotte

will say things very consistently. which are important for us, she, in fact, from the beginning of the full-scale invasion says that this is a war for culture, and the war is not fought for territories, not for resources, it is fought around the topic of culture and for culture, this is our cultural war, it is very quickly begins to analyze on the pages of the guardian, the post-colonial contexts of this war, and our anti-imperial resistance, and i she is quite so radical , she says, for example, that, don't try it with the ukrainians, she writes in one of the texts to talk about the mysterious russian soul, because they immediately they will say the word shit, ugh, uh, and, and she does it fearlessly, that's exactly what i asked her in fearlessness, and she said no, all my, i'm my support for ukraine and the theses that

i express, in particular, which concern.. russian culture and ukrainian relations russian culture never provoked aggression, and that the only aggression she experienced, but it was actually this almost bullying campaign, when she tweeted that she started learning ukrainian, and then all of a sudden there was a very, very many comments and very aggressive ones about the fact that she supports fascism there. and around this in a certain type of speech, yes, functioning, structuring of speech, it all revolved, and while she was saying this, she was so very ironic in conversation, she was joking about herself, but there was a lot of self-irony, but suddenly she stopped being self-ironic, i understood that she had experienced a certain pain, and she suddenly started talking about it, that it

was extraordinary. unpleasant, but, but i immediately thought that i have nothing to complain about, because my friends in ukraine are going through worse things, but what does this mean, why i mention it now, it means that part of the information space that functions in a western for westerners, and in western europe, in great britain or in america, it is saturated with... something with a very clear agenda , that is, the algorithms are somehow adjusted, or there is some kind of bot farm there, which is managed when, a visible journalist talks about the fact that she started learning the ukrainian language, and this is not just talking, that this is a colonial war, this is to become one of the experts, this is to demonstrate a very

adult attitude, yes to this cult. it is to accept it, to make it a culture to a large extent, so there are people who are ready to attack this decision, and this says that this space, it is very complex, and probably we we still do not fully understand it, we do not fully understand how anti-ukrainian narratives and pro-russian narratives are created, function and spread in the information space of countries in great britain or in the united states or in asia or in latin america, in the whole world that we have many countries, if we concentrate in communication there on european countries , okay, there on the united states, but if we talk about the conventional global south there, we did not even talk about asia, some other things, but here sprat

writers that are currently in book form. they are now discussing on the sidelines their trains to the countries of the global south, that is, this is the kind of work on which, in particular, our colleagues in the book form are also working on ours, and what are they, to put it so generally, in? what did they see there, what in general, these are trips that are just being prepared, so we will wait, iryna tsylyk returned from mexico, and she generously shared her observations, but i am to the point that we do not understand how this information circulates, i have a feeling that we are not up to we finally understand, and sometimes we do not understand at all, how this or that our thesis, which we publicly voice for the western community, is ours. in the western media, or in the american, or british, or even not in the western media, in general in the world media, not ukrainian, in the outside world, we do not know what it causes, what structures begin to work, how it begins to be interpreted, where it is talked about , where

they write about it, what kind of context it acquires and grows, and what - a story appeared, where a discussion took place with, where we did not understand with applebom, or... where we did not understand with slavenka drakulich , this is a signal, i think, very dangerous, it means, it seems to me , that we have to understand what is happening there in this communication field, and while we don't understand, we don't have the tools with which we can fearlessly go into this field, because saying what you think and what is really is a good thing, but if we get into some situation... in which our e words change, our words are overinterpreted, or from our sentences,

for example, when quoting in some western meddia disappears the part no, no, or some other things happen, or some very specific context is added , so uh, by staying honest and saying the very necessary things, we can probably do something: an outcome that we can't estimate, yes or an outcome that we won't like it, because every time our speakers try to convey this thesis to others on this panel, the same thing happened , well, actually, about the fact that russia cannot be changed, it must be done there, well, no one understands what needs to be done , but these people, they are in many moments not great, the speakers here are trying to explain it, some from a political point of view, some from a philosophical point of view, and this topic is super not accepted even by people like us who sympathize with us, because it seems so barbaric that you can the whole nation like this

cross it, it's dangerous, read it, that the rhetoric that some nation is incurable, it's dangerous, and obviously, again, i'm not ready to analyze this discussion, because you have to find time to listen to it, and this is also a good point, which we can say, you did not miss all these discussions, you it's over, friends, the moment you can go back to them, they're all recorded , they'll be, they'll be accessed and you'll be able to listen to it all again, because this phrase, it confuses even me, and if i try to imagine that it's not me i hear him, and some conditional researcher of totalitarian crimes, who writes books about it, we won’t, even, well, conditional, yes, if i listen to some such nonsense, then this thesis is even more dangerous, well, at least it sounds parisian, and therefore, i would for me, the question of what is happening with russian

culture, it is open, and for me too, i am very confused that it could be allowed, what happened in, let's say, there in the 90-third year, that it happened so easily, and that after , let's say, parliamentarism disappeared. in the history of russian politics, no one has started something that could bring this parliamentarism back, or that demonstrated the understanding of the community that they lost something, something irreparably important, or when uh, uh, the chechen military campaign began, and i too, there were a lot more reactions, but...' however, they didn't turned into something that would give signals to the community, and i am more confused that - russian poetry, because when i think about

us, when i think about what gave the opportunity for this dialog within ukrainian society, for example, i think about poetry that was not political in the 90s. it was very, it was a love lyric very often, or just poetry that spoke to what we lived in, to some existential questions and contexts, but... what was happening with language was happening, this rift was happening, where you saw , as real life comes through many things, let's say through the dungeons, the ones that were there in the 90s on television, and this rift in language, there, which only fiction and poetry can do in the first place, it gave that territory of freedom, from which they started. dialogues are no longer noticeable, it seems to me that a lot

of things begin in poetry, in particular, in fiction in general, and for me the question is why all these quite successful russian writers with large circulations of books, with large audiences who came to listen their poetry, they could not untie this territory of language to the extent that some social processes took place there, and it is obvious that this is due to the fact that this is a culture in which violence has a special status, and, obviously, this is a problem, of russian culture, how to work with it, and we don't see, i don't see , at least, that work with it takes place, or it would be somehow effective, i have said this many times that for me the territory is russian, for me the military, which " there, private soldiers walk the border with ukraine and enter

ukrainian cities and are attacked by russian soldiers crimes are a little, they scare me a little less than russian intellectuals, who could not create such a space in culture for these people, where they could protect themselves from the need to become war criminals. i don't know if that phrase was clear. i would, i too, by the way, it confuses me, because when i see people, the russian military, they are just there, it is clear what they are doing, yes, especially those who are under the influence of propaganda, and when you come into contact with people, who can be interpreted there as intellectuals, with educated people who speak different languages, who know literature, philosophy and so on, and you understand that they don't understand, they don't really understand what they

're talking about, it's getting worse here. they don't understand that these russian soldiers who enter ukraine are people they didn't pay attention to, they are like those who work with the word, with culture, with education, with the media, they who are responsible for this entire space , they were supposed to make this person drunk with all this, so that he knew for sure that this could not be done, and he could to resist, and what is happening now is a whole class of people who would not watch out for those, for whom they were supposed to, who they should watch out for by virtue of their profession, but at the same time, little one, look, eh, we more than once they said that our influence will lose for the time being, yes, well, if we talk about culture, about some intellectual things, after all, they are now stronger than us, well , if only because they have been engaged in this consistently for a long time, they have built names, while we were sitting here, there we were stewing and did not pay attention to... because it is something out of time,

this is some kind of bullshit, yes, we had a bow at the end, at the end of the news releases, if we are talking about journalism, you take off the bow, that's oksana zabuchka, that's our bow, and here they were doing it, so accordingly in of them and the same masha heson already has a name , loud enough, and she has an influence, and we are just starting to do it, just starting to catch up, how do you see this process, if? take the last one and a half years, yes, when we got loose, forgive me, there is progress, we are gaining weight for internationals, i think that we scattered in the 14th year, after all, the little ones started, you think, yes, and i think that, and even more, that is, in the 14th year we scattered at the level of institutions, we began to build them, in the 22nd year, these were still young institutions, which for a part of those almost ten to almost eight years

at that time were just dealing with their framework, but , just to understand the structure of these institutions, there could not be big actions yet, because these are newborn institutions that had to deal with this soft power, external communications, representation of ukrainian culture, development of the discourse, these are all very young platforms and the people who are engaged in it have only just begun to engage in this, but we must not forget everything that happened from 1991, and it was based on personal charismas, and ours was, because recently, we have one of these institutions, the ukrainian institute. they are opening a representative office in paris right now, and i, the person who deals with this, in particular, was told that in fact, we were almost, almost invisible in france, all these years of our independence, well let's say, slavyanka drakulich, who comes to ukraine, is slavyanka drakulich, whom

oksana zabushka met in the 90s at one of the festivals, and the fact that slavyanka did not lose contact with her when it became... it is possible to betray her book and for her to come to ukraine, she continued this dialogue, it obviously depends on how they met, or claudia date, a german translator who made incredible efforts for the presence of ukrainian culture, in general, for many, many years in a row, without having any institutional support, but after february 24 in the 22nd year, these efforts were simply incredible, just in order to... translate, make this tape in ukrainian in the german news, for those who came, it was the translator of yuriy andruhovych, everyone one way or another, obviously these are some private things, but

everything was taught as it was taught and led us to where it led us, we are very young in this sense, we are very young in how we present ourselves, how we talk about ourselves, and we don't understand, i think we don't understand , how to arrange it. and from the fact that we do not understand how this one is arranged information space, and in the end we don't have many resources either, we lose because we don't do this post-production, and as there is production, then post production, and then distribution, and this is about cinema, when speaking, so, in my opinion, we are a little better with simple productions, distribution is the same, we still have problems, and here we are talking about an idea, an idea that seems to us to be saving and so working, on some international platforms, and we can express it, but formalize it further so that it becomes, i will now say this word, but probably, maybe a better word is viral and visible, which everyone would like to support

, we don't have enough resources, already resources for it to get into everyone's, everyone's, everyone's... head, and every tv, every morning newspaper, especially since we don't have enough, and i'm not sure, but i have a feeling that those who work for russian culture have more of this resource and skill, ah, yes, that thought occurred to me too , but i just see that we are working, we are making progress, it seems to me that we are lacking a lot, we talked to you before the broadcast, discussions, initially professional, closed. then a wider one, and we have literally five minutes left, and i want to talk with you specifically about the perception of literature in our country, because it has intensified and those literary shits that constantly happen here, for me, on the one hand, they they are confusing, on the other hand they are pleasing, because so many people who were never interested in ukrainian literature

at all, even started to read, went to read kurkov, after that the recent scandals, you said in the newsletter that if you have never been to book arsenal, it looks like. yes, there is a sea of ​​people, events, there is a sea of ​​people, but it was not always like that, that is, it is actually such a discovery, recent, such large audiences at poetry events, at literary readings, at discussions, i really see, if not for the first time, such attention, such a desire to hear, such a desire, to discuss, to understand, i have not seen before, and it seems to me that execution is the reverse side of this, and if everyone came and listened, read some writer, then even at the moment when more complicated things are happening , such some ambiguous, theses are expressed, the audience of this ambiguity is also not the same as it was 10, 10 years ago, when it

was you, me and some other friend of ours and her friend, and now all these people who come to listen poetry readings, or literature discussion or cultural discussion, they then follow all the rest of the context, and our degree is a little not so simple, and we are still a little too ourselves, not us globally, not us with you, and , but the community is reacting a little too harshly, mentioned it, korkov korkov and despite the fact that i am not, i do not understand his decision, but , it is about it, i will tell our viewers what it is about, i will remind you, maybe you have heard, pandriy agreed to a discussion with masha heson, masha heson is a journalist.

god, i’m with these non-binary people in ukrainian, they should be called that, binary people should be called they, but it’s not clear how then the journalists, in a word, these are the journalists who, having arranged a whole riot in may, around, well, refusals , around the decision of our ukrainian writers who came to new york for the festival, not denied. to participate in this festival, because various russian representatives took part there , and the organizers had to apologize to our ukrainians and ask the russians and masha geson, who moderated, should have moderated this discussion of theirs, to leave, they were very indignant and started everywhere on authoritative platforms to talk about cruel ukrainian authors who slander their russian colleagues, masha hesen's reaction was such that we... got a meme ukrainian cruel writers,

cruel ukrainian writers, and this meme, he is not out of wit, mashyk hesen was born, he was born out of, out of the twisting of a comment that anton chipai made, who said that he as a military man signs a document that he will not have contact with russian citizens, and that phrase was twisted , changed, transformed. on the unreliable, with which, they say, our writers are forbidden, almost under the threat of not knowing what, and this kind of game with information, it seems to me the most terrible, and we do not understand how it happens, we, now, about what am i saying we can't control it, and we can't, the situation, what actually worked, we can't show it in the media, we still don't have the tools, the channels, enough allies, and precisely because what we

did masha hesen led to another fake regarding a very transparent and very understandable situation in which ukrainian writers were involved, which is why she seemed to me, they seem to me, not the interlocutors with whom you can be on the same panel, but despite the fact that i am not i understand andriy kurkov's position, i think he doesn't did nothing that would cause you such a wave of hate, there is that, there is the rhetoric that andriy cheh chose, and it was exactly what it could have been, and there is the rhetoric of the shit that appeared after, which already spoke about that , that we will not be able to understand each other, or in the end understand why andrii made such a decision, because there is this wave between us, who have questions, and andrii, who can give an answer, and what should we do so that the waves do not interfere let's get along because

it obviously has the issue of communication with colleagues from russia, with russians to find some form, but as long as this senseless aggressive wave will build up between the one who wants to ask and the one who is ready to answer, well, nothing will happen, and here is an interesting question, where does this wave come from, and i, as a person , which survived the russian wave, uh, i think we need to think. isn't there also some structure or configuration of the information space that we don't notice, and where we are also its masters, which supports all this, olenka, thank you, we were talking about the lviv book forum, i will also say about these literary matters, on the one hand, yes, they popularize literature, popularize , popularize reading, of course, but on the other hand, let's reduce the degree, and to reduce it, quiet down, i suggest just before

you are going to write to yourself on facebook, instagram or twitter about some topic, please study this topic very well, and maybe you don't know it a little well, look at all the speakers who speak on this topic, people who are engaged in literature professionally , maybe your point of view is true too emotional and you will change it when you investigate this situation, and going to book forms is crazy. it is worth it, but do you think that we have our writers, and there were some of them, and they have already increased their popularity so much that sometimes you have to come even 20 minutes before the event, or take a seat, because i was recently in kyiv at a performance by oksana zabushko , i was a little late and had to sit on the stairs, because ms. oksana, mr. andruhovych, mr. jadan are already rock stars, they are all very cool, so go to book events, they are extremely interesting now. that's it, i'm with you friends, goodbye, stay with the espresso,

see you. stress has discounts on tablets glyciset and glyciset max 15% in pharmacies plantain bam and oshchad. there are discounts on oracept 20% spray at podorozhnyk, bam and oskad pharmacies. what vasu, you drank an antibiotic, it ran into your tummy, and you girls, like and how, like after the antibiotic, how, ran like that. no matter what ukrainians think about, no matter what they talk about, war still comes first. war and our victory. espresso only, from monday to sunday. completely different spheres of activity a person sports, health, politics, return

of crimea, military analytics. nine presenters, journalists, experts, opinion leaders. in real time is more relevant: events through the prism of war in author's projects on espresso. vitaly portnikov is with you and we are talking about the main events of this week. vitaly portnikov and top experts about the most vivid events of the last seven days. our guest will be lieutenant general of the ground forces, former national security advisor to the president of the united states, donald trump, herbert mcmaster. actual topics. sharp questions, authoritative comments and forecasts in the information marathon project with vitaly portnikov, every sunday at 20:10 on espresso. the stories of people who were held hostage by russian soldiers are terrible stories, they abused people so much that

there was simply no place for them to live. we chatted here in the corridor just for fun, that's all, we got high, we're going to bed, the stress and shock i experienced cannot be described in words, of course, i prepared for the worst for two or three months, even up to six months, up to a year, i'm up to this was preparing, we didn't even imagine the scale of this calamity, and as long as we... remain silent, until then, these people remain invisible, invisible, sunday, 10:00 pm espresso. vasyl winter's great ether. two hours of airtime, two hours of your time, two hours to learn about the war and what

the world is about. two hours to keep up with economic news. and sports news. two hours in the company of favorite presenters, presenters who have become like family to many, as well as distinguished guests of the studio. events of the day in two hours. big broadcast of vasyl zima, a project for

intelligent and caring people. espresso in the evening. come, come to your native village, come, come, the house is waiting for you, here the nightingale cherry has blossomed, and it will soon have nightingales , come even as a visit to the green holidays, take the children, let the child know that even at night there are little nightingales yat, father is teaching his language, come home on a nightingale day, let him understand yours here.