[000:00:00;00] and the territory of israel and maybe even in the sector itself, so today the israeli government and netanyahu face a very difficult task, how to solve this issue, because it is impossible not to go out and start a full-scale operation, it will simply show that israel has lost and requests even more, possible, in the future, attacks from various, from the south and from the north, and from syria, and from lebanon and so on, and on the other hand, capturing the gaza sector is such a difficult military task,

it is 3 million , residents of the territory, which density of buildings, it is the densest... in the world, how to act there, we understand that hamas has prepared, it understands that we will come to it, and it certainly used to have two-layer defensive tunnels, and today, they can be three and four layers, so yes, israel was able to lead netanyahu into a trap and all of us with him, and now we seem to have no way out, like trying to destroy hamas, but again this goal is correct, but is it possible to achieve it , this is a very big question. thank you, thank you, mr. ariya, ariya zayden, israeli

political scientist, lieutenant colonel of the tsegal reserve, we were on the air and we talked about the war that started today in the middle east again, we will be back in just a couple of minutes, do not switch when pain stops time, choose afida max with arginine in sachets, faster than in tablets, there are discounts on afida max 10% in pharmacies, travel stores, ban and savings. nose treatment, let's start with washing , so, maridose is taken, sprayed into the nose, water from the ocean cleans everything so diligently, caring for the nose, as always, maridose, maridose is usually the first in the nose, buy on podorzhny site. there are discounts for one mile, 10% in

pharmacies, plantain, bam and savings. stories of people who... were held hostage by russian soldiers, terrible stories , they abused people so much that there was simply no place for them to live, tortured here in the corridor just for fun, that's all, got high, let's go to sleep, that stress and the shock that i experienced cannot be described in words, of course, i was preparing for the worst two or three months, even up to six months, up to a year, i was preparing for this, we do not even imagine the scale of this disaster, and as long as we will keep quiet, until then, these people remain invisible, invisible, sunday 22:00 espresso, we are already continuing the saturday political club on

telekanana. andriy daplomat, the former head of the ministry of foreign affairs, is in touch with us, mr. andriy, we welcome you, good evening, congratulations, let 's continue this topic, which we discuss all the time, mr. andriy, let's try to understand, maybe what is happening in the middle east, it is part of some global conflict, more seriously, we have been saying all along that in principle, now and moscow and tygaran are interested in the fact that the conflict around ukraine becomes global, because it is a conflict between moscow and the west, between democracies and dictatorships, and it is necessary to create such hot zones in different parts of the world that can explode, can tomorrow something will happen in the far east, relatively speaking, somewhere, let's see. quite likely, quite likely , obviously, russia may be interested, most likely interested in diverting attention from the topic of supporting ukraine, because

diverting it altogether. attention from ukraine as such, so now the whole world is obviously watching what is happening in israel, and in the case. if the situation there continues to escalate, it is possible that israel will need some kind of help, and therefore it will certainly be reduced for ukraine , moscow is of course interested in this, we do not rule out such a scenario, okay, we understand that all the world's attention is now drawn to israel, what should ukraine do instead, because, well, here we need to understand how prepared we are for reducing aid. in that from the same side from the side of european countries, from the side of america, possible, which we will continue to talk about in the same way, so what to do in ukraine, how

to resist the diversion of attention from ukraine? well, look, i think that ukraine should do what ukraine has been doing since the first days of large-scale aggression. relies above all on its own strength, and this is what ultimately happened in the first few days, when the world expected that ukraine would not withstand the russian onslaught, but this did not happen, and obviously now we have in front of us, much more difficult tasks that lie ahead of us , we need to think about how to increase the number of weapons produced in ukraine, we need to think about how to spend more funds in the budget also on issues of defense and security, we need to think about how, despite the fact that the world's attention can be

scattered, and not only with about what may happen, whether there are conflicts in other regions of the world, but also about the issues of the election campaign. domestic political situation in different countries, and therefore we will have to think how, despite these processes, to convince our partners, our allies to continue supporting ukraine, because in the event of ukraine's victory over russia, we will be able to resolve the rest of the global conflicts as well. because, as it was, even earlier, all these conflicts that took place in the space of

of the soviet union or, in the space of the former osce, not the former, in the space of the osce, they were all provoked by russia, and russia fueled them in order to have leverage, but if we, ukraine, with the support of the event. defeats russia, then they will be found ways to resolve conflicts in other regions. tell me, mr. andriy, how do you think the election campaign in poland looks today, if we talk about its foreign policy vectors and possible development? well, unfortunately, this political campaign, the election campaign in poland, caused a lot of statements, which are also anti-ukrainian in nature, in general, of course, they are more aimed at not accepting migrants, but also concentration, support, its

producers, its electorate, and its people, and protection and security for poland and the polish people, but nevertheless, it also affected the issue of ukrainian-polish relations and the issue of ukrainians in poland and the issue of ukraine, but the situation in reality , i hope, and everyone hopes, will become less emotional after october 15, after the election day , and these statements that came from the mouths of polish politicians, they will no longer be so aggressive, but we must remember that , unfortunately, the situation... now, with the support of political forces in poland, is such that it is possible that the electoral process will not end

in a week, it is not excluded that none of the political forces will not be able to form a majority of parliaments, accordingly form a new government, which means that new elections will await poland, which means that such a period of turbulence will continue, here it is worth... mentioning the confederation party, and therefore that it looks dangerous from the point of view of ukraine, so what is the probability that in the end it and there the number, the number of votes and the number of seats, will be so significant that after the elections, poland's attitude towards ukraine and diplomatic relations between ukraine and poland will not will improve, see, in fact, the support of the confederation, the confederation party, may be decisive for

the formation of a new government, so far it is not said, and the active, active, ruling coalition of peace, in declares that they will be ready to form the government itself , obviously, each of the political forces is talking about it, but peace has the most support and probably gets the most votes during the elections, but as it shows... sociological polls now, this support and these votes will not be enough to form a government on their own, and then their biggest ally, which can be a coalition ally when forming a new government, can be a confederation when forming a new government, and this already carries a certain danger not only for ukraine, in the end, but also a danger for poland's relations with european union. for e

migration policy of poland as a whole, and well, let's see how big this support for the confederation will be in a week, now there is a tendency for this support to decrease, instead, support for political of the forces that are in direct opposition to the existing government, it is primarily a civil platform or a party or bloc, the third road, it is the peasant party and the party, shimona 2050, and the union of left forces, that is, their support is growing , especially after last week's big march, a million hearts, and maybe this trend.

will remain, if this happens, then the chances of the confederation entering the government will be small, but surely this is still a rather serious signal, a bell that such support is so anti-democratic, of an anti-migration populist force, like a confederation, on the verge of about 10%, well enough, quite dangerous, that's where the question arises. why generally national parties in european countries cannot unite their efforts in order not to become hostages of radical forces. we see that because they are too democratic, because we see that this is currently happening in spain, where in fact both major parties are hostages of regional political forces there and are forced to take steps that do not add to their popularity in order to remain with authorities, instead of join forces because they hate each other, it's the same in poland, in fact , we meet with two parties that could easily agree on a government of understanding, but they hate each other so much that

the party of jarosław kaczyński, that the coalition of donald tusk , that even to imagine that they will agree on something is now impossible, and they are united in supporting ukraine , in opposing russia, and nothing good will come of it, as we can see, no, well, you see, mr. vitaly, in fact , they, to a certain extent, united a year and a half ago back, that is, politics, and peace and the civil platform, in matters of support for ukraine and opposition to russian aggression, was quite unified, and the votes that took place in the polish parliament on new laws, and the allocation of permits to increase the budget for armaments, the allocation of permits and consent to transmission weapons, they were supported by the ruling coalition, and then

by the largest opposition party, the civil platform, that is, if there is actually a serious external threat, which russia is, was and continues to be, then they can unite i hope that, actually, this common sense will prevail, these populist statements, which are characteristic... of the election campaign, and then we can see, if there really will be a serious threat to ukraine, a serious threat to poland from russia, then their ... efforts to make joint decisions will certainly be more effective and productive, but must there be only some serious threat in order to avoid the presence of some radical populist forces in the politics of certain states?

well, unfortunately, it looks like this, not only in poland, until the time when they heard her fried, until then, i apologize for such slang, but until then... well, they fight among themselves, not understanding what is actually used and used by the third forces in this struggle, in this case moscow. as far as we can in principle talk about the fact that when the polish elections are held and when the governments of, say, slovakia and poland are formed, we can see such, i would say the visegrad coalition, the right-wing visegrad coalition, kaczynsk. orban fitzo and to what extent will this coalition be able to stay in the fairway of supporting ukraine? well, you see, now, well, this can all change, because before the large-scale aggression of russia, there were very

close ties between warsaw and budapest, but after the start of hostilities, after february 22 - after february 24, 22 , orban and muravetsky did not find a common language among themselves. now the situation may change, because they are now more focused on, at least in the statements they make, during the election campaign, to strengthen poland's defense capabilities, and i think that quite probably, given that there will be a change of government in slovakia and a fitz government will be formed, that they can agree among themselves to produce, or carry out some of their own, conduct some of their own regional policy, er,

to a large extent it can also be politics , which will oppose the policies of brussels, the european union, because they will want to show their strength and their power er, in front of the european commission, but you know, well, again, i hope that's all for now, just, in these emotional, the populist statements made are only the result of pre-election campaign, and when this temperature drops a little, common sense, after all, disappears, in making decisions on and supporting ukraine and conducting a unified policy of the european union, the foreign policy of the european union. well, there is a week left until the elections in poland, there is not much left to wait, actually, but we cannot but talk with you about another

topic, no less important, about the support of ukraine by the united states of america, also a rumor, such a story that in the united states the states removed the speaker of the house of representatives, and one of the reasons why they did it, this is his position regarding ukraine, these scandals surrounding aid to ukraine, this is a beacon of what they are signaling, well, these are new realities, that is, it is the fact that to a certain extent the political elites in the world are already, uh, let's say a little tired of the war, although they don't talk about it publicly, although they don't talk about it, in negotiations with our high-ranking officials, but nevertheless, some political forces

think that it's enough, we helped ukraine, and now we have to find ways until the end... of this war, for the end, maybe not support, but a decrease in support, and this is of course a signal that the internal political processes taking place in many countries, er, the countries of our allies, er, they cannot always be, er, fairways of an idea or direction, topics of support for ukraine, many can speculate on this so that, let's now pay more attention, domestic political, domestic economic issues, and the issue of ukraine, well, will somehow be resolved, and therefore we face a rather large, important

task, to together with our partners , who firmly stand on the positions of ukraine, prevent such a change of position in other countries, especially in such influential ones as the united states, great britain or poland. thank you, mr. andrii, andriy deshchytsia, diplomat, former head of the ministry of foreign affairs of ukraine, ambassador of ukraine to poland, was on the air with ulyana, and now we will talk with pyotr shevchenko, analyst, graduate student of the department of international economics of tsilina university, will join us, instead, mr. andrii said something quite important the thing is that ukraine should rely only on itself and be ready for the possibility that one day we will be helped much less than they are helping us now, but realistically, whether ukraine will be able

to stand up for itself, well, it will be determined by the moment when it happens , and the situation that will be in the world at this moment, if there will be a large number of crises in the world, then the attention of not only the united states or the european union, but also russia will be drawn to this large number of crises, in principle, we are approaching a situation of such uh, i would say, permanent conflicts, we see that when at the beginning of the war, between russia and ukraine, i spoke about the fact that it was only the common people and everyone said that i was just there, conditionally speaking, trying to paint the situation with black paint, that this is exclusively russian-ukrainian history, he says that no , it's just like that, the first is like before the rain, it just starts, the first drops fall, and we will still see a thunderstorm, it's not a thunderstorm yet, it's just raining . and for the world, for global security, there will be another storm, and in principle, i think that what we see in the near future

in the east, this is already the beginning of a thunderstorm, we can already hear such discharges of thunder, but we have not seen it yet, the thunder has not thundered yet, as if there was no lightning yet, this is all just the beginning , simply because this is what world politics looks like now, and by the way, it is not without the participation of putin and his example that many things can be solved by force. that there is no need for all these agreements, that's what the hamas press secretary says there, that now there are many mediators who want to somehow stop all this, but for now we will solve our problems on the battlefield, that is practically the same as what lavrov or medvedev says, in the same words, because it is no longer interesting, all these peace talks, all these search for compromises, if something can be achieved on the battlefield or economically. effect, or a military one, even a psychological one, so why not go to war, values ​​themselves have changed, the 21st century will be a time of permanent

wars, it is simply necessary for people living in this 21st century, not only ukrainians, to realize it, accept it, have an alarming suitcase, wills, well, everything on the planet, well, many regions, no, well, there are some maybe the regions that are there, i just don't see where they are, before we said australia and new zealand. now australia, new zealand, it's part of the united states military alliances against the people's republic of china, so it might be tempting to hide , hide somewhere, but i can't give you a specific geographic direction right now, where you'll survive, well, most likely if elon musk will still start some flights, to mars, then before the pelonization of mars, it will be a more or less safe place, and the earth itself, at least in the first half of the 21st century, is not a peaceful place will be well, such a dialectic is okay, this is not the first such historical period in the history of mankind, mankind has survived in more

difficult situations than the one in which we find ourselves now. well, taking into account what you just said, a question arises , something similar to what i asked mr. andriy, nevertheless, how ukraine should change its, i don't know, strategic communications with western partners, in order to in order to. that they continue to help us as long as possible? i think what we need, by and large, is what we're seeing in israel right now. national unity, the government of national unity, joint work on reforms, you know, now the leader of the israeli opposition has turned to the prime minister with a proposal to create such a government, but when it happened at the meeting of the prime minister with the leader of the opposition, where in the presence of the heads of law enforcement agencies, the prime minister informed, the leader of the opposition. about what is happening at the front, this was the first thing he did, one of the first actions, by the way, our president also met with the leaders

of the parliamentary factions, literally in the first hours after the start of the war, but it can't just be a one-time thing, it has to be a structured solution, a structured joining of efforts around this support for ukraine, which we need not just to win, but to survive, we have to call things by their names, it's not not support for the sake of our gaining an indisputable victory over the russian federation there, the final meaning of which everyone determines for himself, because we cannot define it collectively, taking into account the complexity of the events and the task, and the most important thing is that we we must... have such support for the sake of the survival of the ukrainian state and the ukrainian people, because i emphasize all the time that this is not a constant at all, and if we believe that it is a constant, we may find ourselves in the situation of our israeli friends, who also were sure that after so many military victories, and after so many peace agreements, and there is also an iron dome, and

there is also an iron dome, and there are also security tunnels, that it is definitely complete. security for the civilian population and nothing can happen and if something is happening, then it is only in some territories very close to the gas sector, well, then people decide for themselves whether they live in such places or not, you can say that, i was in zderotka, by the way, which is now a walking street, not anymore street fights are going on there, i specifically went to zderot , not because it is some kind of city with architectural monuments, but because i just wanted to see as a journalist, and as a journalist, as a jew, how people live in the city in general , which every few days in a row, it meets with some kind of rocket attacks, with blows, children love it, instead of kindergartens and schools, they sit in bean warehouses, and there

really was a very difficult atmosphere, a very difficult atmosphere, it was... apparently, i arrived just after another rocket attack and ran away with ambulances and that was it difficult, i thought that i was already used to some warlike things and in the middle east and in the former yugoslavia and that i was used to such an atmosphere, but i realized that it is very difficult to live in poverty, but nearby, in the cities that are nearby, not even the pressure of war and danger felt, and that's why when i hear there that now, that the militants are there... ha hamasu entered netsivot, which i also visited, because it is there, one of the main such centers of moroccan jewry, and there people lived in such an absolute peaceful situation, without even feeling that there is such a danger nearby, and here it turns out that they may not be in the same situation as the inhabitants of the depressed, great, that it is enough

to change a little, political war... situations, something to someone to miss, something someone does not understand, and that's it, you find yourself in a trap, and ukrainians need to understand this, because we perceive our situation as some kind of constant , and there is already such a perception , you know, of course, there is a war going on somewhere in the east, in the eastern and southern regions, like this, so there is a line of conflict, here are the people , who are in the conflict line, under shelling, with a risk to their lives, well, they live there, well, they can go somewhere, but i more or less find myself here in a peaceful place, also with grief, with military funerals, with tragedies , but it is a peaceful life there, the only thing there is rocket fire, you have to hide in a bomb shelter if i have such a solution, but if the situation changes radically, then we remember where the russians were until recently, a few months ago, they were in kherson, they were in

the north, and if we do not have enough military to help , if we do not have any opportunities to respond to one or another of their actions, then they will not limit themselves to missile attacks and drones, they will try to advance, advance in those areas that may seem very safe to us now, there are a huge number of options, which today may seem fantastic, but nowhere, which are nowhere, disappeared, and at the same time, putin's speech is overwhelming, which indicates that they do not give up their plans at all, they have a political plan that they want to implement, which for to a large extent creates the putin rating that we see, on the other hand, we perfectly understand that if putin abandons this plan, then nothing is in danger for him either, the russians will love him because he tells them to love him, this is