[000:00:00;00] some are in prisons, some have a different form of punishment, and here, you know, in fico, in principle , it passed, only very narrowly, the vote did not pass, that the parliament issued a fice for investigation to the prosecutor's office, mine, about two years ago there was such a voting, well, one vote was missing in order to cast it, so you know here, it is not clear how close the relationship is between pellegrini and fico, in principle, they are in conflict, pellegrini distanced himself from fico, he created his party, he for he fico was a toxic politician, he needs to deal with that now the question of whether to create a government with him or not. i mean, i'm going to finish it, it's only possible, in my opinion, if fitzu agrees that he won't be the prime minister, pelligrini will be the prime minister and let's say

fitzu will be the speaker of the parliament. somewhere in the back, pellegrini will control, but will pellegrini go for such a game, and plus, bearing in mind the fact that this third coalition partner is completely unknown there, and how reliable he will be and how it will be possible to work with him, pellegrini at least wanted christian democrats , it was the first the condition when they started these negotiations, that he does not want danko, he wants the christian democrats, but the christian democrats, the head of the party and the members of the presidium... said that they and fizo would not go along in any way, and that is why they now said , that this is the position of the presidium, there is also the possibility that on october 14 there will be a congress of this party, and that he may make some other decision, for pelligrini it would be a very good scenario, he would go with the christian democrats to fico's government, and apparently with the agreement that for fico to be

prime minister, but without them danko, he will want the position of the prime minister, and it is simply unknown how these will end, how these negotiations between them will end, i understand that for piligrini's political future it is more profitable to go with the democratic forces than with fico, because yes, he is actually losing its chances to be such, i would say, a serious player for the west, i understand that these western and western politicians are already talking to him as well, now everyone is grinding, and from the point of view of supporting ukraine, because there was such a metamorphosis here, i would say so in pellegrin, y in 18-19, yes, i'm sorry, in 21-22 we had such a big topic, so that the signing of the treaty on defense cooperation with the united states of america, in principle, the content of this, so that the us army could use two military bases that we have in slovakia, it's a slovak,

well, aeropts. basically, yes, here then all the opposition, yes, well, right-wing radicals, fizo, of course, nationalists and so on , everyone shouted, no-no, no, this is a loss of sovereignty, all that, and pelligrini also played this game, but when war started in ukraine, when, when the russian tragedy began, then he, he, publicly, it was public, he addressed his voters and, that is, explained his position that it was a mistake, we need this agreement, and he supports ukraine, and he did not shout about it during the election campaign there, yes, of course, in order not to lose voters, well, he is in principle about his pro-ukrainian position, but he is in the government with fizo and danko, it would be a very, very difficult situation, if there were christian democrats, in who also have a pro-ukrainian

position, he was ready to leave, i think he left, well, the christian democrats said, no, we are not going to the government by chance, but here is another problem with the christian democrats, that in principle, they also have reservations about progressive slovakia and some part of their political program, there regarding same-sex marriages, there are conditions for abortions and so on and so on, there are such cultural and ethnic issues where a big, big compromise will be needed, because mayarsky , the head of this party, he immediately... after the meeting with the president, who met with all party leaders the first two days after entering the parliament, he said, we are probably demos in the opposition, that is, neither with fizo nor with progressive slovakia, but there i see opportunities to still make an agreement and not open this issue, well under during the next four years of this government, if there was such an agreement, and here you know, as he said, this is one thing, and the second issue, that is, the fourth of this

coalition would be the sulika party, which already now, when peleguerny said that he would not about yes, he has as an alternative negotiations with progressive slovakia, well, he wants, in addition to fasting prime minister, still wants the post of minister of internal affairs. this is also a kind of red line for progressive slovakia, because there is no trust in pellegrini, who worked very closely with fico for 12 years. yes, well, the choice is not easy here, either you give poligrinich the position of minister of internal affairs, or you make fizo the head of the country. you know, such, well, here, you know, everyone has their own motivations, their own reasons, their own considerations. well, everything is open, it came one week after the elections, we met so far this week according to the information of our media, who are monitoring where

who is meeting with whom, so far there have only been meetings between fizo and pellegrini and there was one meeting, several meetings, and there was one meeting with fizo danko, well, fizo is working on this scenario, he has no other version, no other possibility, how to form this government, well, it will be a very... unstable government , i say plus three more deputies of the majority, it is still not clear that those nine people who came out there passed the list of the slovak national party, who they are, what they will be, how they will behave themselves, i saw, by the way, the interview andrii danka after this meeting with robert fite, i was surprised that he spoke about pelligrini rather aggressively, let him tell us, let him decide now, take an oath to us, it was strange, you know. fico and danko are very complicated, but in general pellegrini has a conflict with fico and the conflict is also an argument, so why does he have anything to do with this in this government, well

, danko is in conflict with pellegrin precisely because of his position on foreign policy, because pellegrini, after all, he represents a different policy, well, you know, this is such a refined fizo it was his idea that fico, when he became toxic after the murder of the journalist kuciak, after the mass protests of the 18th year, when he was forced to resign, the prime minister and pellegrini became the prime minister, and there were two years of conflicts with danko, because danko was then in the coalition, yes, it was mainly issues of foreign policy, so where was the conflict between them, that is, we will see, we will see. but the golden share in pellegrino, after all, his decision, it will be very important for whether fico's government is formed, or in principle, it

there will be a government, a normal government, a pro-western, pro-ukrainian government, and a pro-democratic government, and there will be no such risk that slovakia could follow some orban path, i don't know, thank you, thank you, mr. oleksandr, oleksandr, duleba, political scientist, director of the slovak foreign association politicians, we talked with them about how it can be formed in... in slovakia, but now, i think, we will talk about internal ukrainian topics, we will be in touch with economist and investment banker serhiy fursa, congratulations, glad to see you, congratulations, that's it tell me, now they say that the economic growth forecast for ukraine will improve, in general, is it possible to make realistic economic forecasts in such a situation, even for the world bank, what do we rely on, where are we? well, look, in fact, the forecast of the world bank has caught up with everyone other forecasts, because the world bank has always been very conservative and the most cautious and the most pessimistic about ukraine, and now, when we talk about the forecasts for the end of this year, they

just caught up with what others predicted, that is, the growth is somewhere at the level of 4-5%. in relation to the coming year, it is really more difficult to make predictions, but here the question is, what are we , rests on the war, what will the war be, but when analysts choose some basic scenarios, they say that there will be a war either by mid- summer, or the whole year and beyond are forecasting based on this basic scenario, and please tell me here is the growth forecast , it is about it after what fall, well, the fall that occurred last year, the -29%, the same, that is, almost 30%, which we had in in the 22nd year, in as a result of russia's attack, and we can sit down and calculate what the annual growth should be in order for ukraine at some point to reach at least the level of economic development it had in 2022, how much time it will take and what it should be percent

growth? well, look, here, in fact, you can count differently, because there is real gdp, but now we are talking about the growth of real gdp, but there is nominal gdp, that is, in absolute numbers, and this nominal... gdp, we will not find much quickly, there is inflation helps, and the absolute figure of our gdp will probably already next year be at the level of the 21st year, because it is more than last year, even against this background. by 39, oh, by 29%, that is, by almost 30%, against the background of a very difficult economic situation, due to aggression, our nominal gdp was in the top four of all gdp levels in the history of ukrainian independence, that is, in the entire history, so to say when we will reach the level of the 21st year there, it will be quite difficult, because the criteria are different, when we will reach there, if we say, we must probably push ourselves some kind of standard of living. that is, there are real

incomes of the population that must return. here, probably, after the war, we will need 3-5 years, after the end of the war, or during the war, well, look, during the war, we can hardly now talk about the growth of the real income of the population, inflation has decreased and, well, it is really very low, as for a country in a state of war , but incomes are not growing either, incomes have stabilized , and there is no longer a drop, there is some nominal growth here and there, but there is no such recovery of real incomes of the population yet is happening, and the purchasing power of the population, well, it's the same thing, actually. well, it depends on prices, by and large, if you don't have incomes increasing , but prices decrease or increase, decrease, increase, while purchasing power, well, real incomes, they are just that and are taken into account with inflation, and what was needed national bank to do this innovation with the hryvnia, ee. well, look, the logic of the national bank, the fixed exchange rate

was very useful, and it is true, its introduction was very important for our economy, but this drugs, and like any drug that you use for a very long time, after a certain point it becomes addictive, then the longer you use those drugs, the harder it is to give them up, and there is already a certain dependence. the national bank did not want to repeat history, when you remember all these protests by supporters of the hryvnia at eight , where did they come from, the exchange rate was artificially kept for a very long time... at the level of eight without a war, yes, there was, it was wrong, then, uh, and because of that artificial keeping of course by eight, people got the impression that it will always be like that, that is the hryvnia will always be worth eight, and people have taken out currency loans without thinking about currency risks, for example, and this is a situation that the national bank does not want to repeat, and that is why it is now saying: look, we will gradually liberalize the currency market, that is, more allow business to withdraw money from ukraine. but we gradually

moved away from this fixed exchange rate, the exchange rate will not be free, we must understand that until the end of the war, we will not see a free exchange rate, but little by little they took a step away from the fixed exchange rate, in the near future, in fact, nothing will happen, the situation on the foreign exchange market will be just as controlled, the national bank will make almost the same efforts as before to ensure that there are no significant fluctuations of the hryvnia, but from the point of view of the national bank, people should get used to the fact that the hryvnia can to move here the national bank will want it to move in both directions , although again, it is quite difficult to imagine now during the war, most likely, the predominant movements of the hryvnia will be in one direction, but very controlled. how much do you think, ot it can meet the expectations of the population from the currency, what will this lead to, a decrease in the demand for the currency, or on the contrary to an increase? no, look, i think that since there wasn't much movement at the moment. it will happen and

nothing will change from the population, because if the hryvnia will remain plus or minus so stable, then there will be no devaluation expectations that will force people to actively buy. the national bank on the first day when it introduced this non-fixed rate is managed flexibility, where the rate is more manageable than flexible, he spent $500 million on the first day to smooth out any possible fluctuations and to punish any would-be speculators who tried to speed up the rate on the black market, and therefore there will definitely not be much movement in the near future, and therefore for people, well, not much will change, but tell me, mr. serhiy, you admit that we can now carry out these reform proposals that we hear from all the western countries, well, look, nothing but our own desire or our own reluctance prevents us from these reforms to do, because there these reforms are directed towards the development of anti-corruption infrastructure and the rule of law.

the war or the economic situation does not prevent reforms at all, but the judicial reform, it does not need money , and it does not require any significant expenses, well, that is, these are not people who are not particularly busy with anything at the moment and they can focus on judicial reform, so we , apart from the lack of political will, nothing prevents these reforms from being carried out, in principle, if we look at these reforms, which you consider the most important for the economy of all these demands, again, the rule of law and the fight against corruption, these are the key things, in fact any growth of the economy, we will now talk about the situation after the war. any economic growth is based on investment. so, when we talked with investors before the war, the investor always said something like this: don't tell me how to make money, these are all ukrainian growth points, we are now thinking of what investors should do there, the investor comes and says: don't tell me how to make money money, i know it myself, provide me with security, that is why the investor is primarily concerned

about the security of his own investments, at the time he is not clear, it is a war situation, and when the war ends, it is security from prosecutors, the sbu. judges and all conditional security officials. if you can imagine the pace, we are now talking a lot about the fact that we have to start negotiations with the european union, we can really start them after the decision of the european commission, what should be the pace of reforms so that we are really there by 2030 became members of the european family, as charles michel, the chairman of the european council, even says. you allow such a fast one. i would say a fast pace of development, well, again, we don't care, it doesn't stop us from doing it, seven years is a very long time, in fact, so can ukraine do it,

well, theoretically, of course, if we just never lost a chance to lose a chance, and all reforms were always made under the influence of the west, now... the influence of the west, such a lever, the so-called leverage of the west is very large and therefore, we can really be forced to speed up the pace of reforms, but it will rest on political will, that is, nothing prevents us from doing so, and then the question is only the desire of the government to do it, any government, the current government, the government that will be after the war, it all depends on political will, is there political will? well, at the moment it is not very visible, to be honest, but maybe she will appear somewhere, and again, these magical pendulums from our western partners stimulate her very much, you have the impression that they are listening before sunset today, all these inspectors general and this whole system that is being created in ukraine, in your opinion, will it somehow

help? no, the inspectors general are not swaying anyone, in fact, well, the question is that we need money, we have the imf program, there are all these reform programs, and in fact , for example, now we have no problems with the implementation of the imf program, we are almost there everything was done, and yes, it doesn’t work out the first time, you need to do your eyebrows again, say, oh, you didn’t do it right, and we will redo it again, but we do it, that’s why it’s is it possible under the shouts of the west with a carrot in the form of european integration and money, which we desperately need now, yes, this carrot is very important. and tell me, for society itself, it wants such reforms, we understand what changes will take place in society itself, if these reforms really start to be implemented, look, if you go out into the street and ask ten people, do you want the rule of law and fight corruption, of course these people will say yes, do they understand

what reforms are needed for this, what they have laid down, yes, not at all, few people understand it, the ukrainian fight against corruption at the level of society is such a fight... with ephemeral, some kind of fictional corruption, pasha kazaryn had a very excellent text on this topic, so it is some kind of general corruption, some kind of just ordinary people, not businesses, very rarely encounter corruption that hinders them, mostly actually, they encounter corruption that helps them live, and they are not at all against this corruption, you know, i am against corruption, but for the best man to decide, because there is a habit, and there are many ukrainians who now they left ukraine because of the war, they tell how bad everything is in europe, how long it took, and how convenient it is in ukraine. this convenience very often actually includes corruption, and even ukrainian businesses that are used to doing business in ukraine, who come , oh, how difficult it is to work in europe , there is so much to do to open an office there, they say, it is so difficult to work in this europe, not the same as in ukraine. this part,

it is adapted to corruption, and corruption does not interfere at all, there is a large part of the business, wants to work in free... conditions , which wants to work with competition, and this business is very much hindered by corruption, and since this business cannot have fun, develop, excuse me, have fun, but cannot develop, it holds back the development of the entire country. thank you, mr. serhiy, serhiy furtse, economist, investment banker, we talked with him about what will happen to the ukrainian economy with the reforms, we will now take a break for a few minutes, then we will talk with theater director david petrossyan, who came to our office after the reform, after the reform, after the premiere and will exhibit the land in the lviv academic theater named after him. zankovetska, do not

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place for them to live, they tortured people here in the corridors just for the sake of it entertainment, well, everyone got high, let's go to bed , the stress and shock i experienced cannot be described in words, i prepared for the worst for two or three months, even six months, up to a year, i prepared for this. we do not even imagine the scale of this trouble, and as long as we remain silent , these people will remain invisible, invisible. sunday, 22:00 espresso. greetings, this is svoboda live on radio svoboda. we have already come to the snake itself. the following shots may shock you. live news from the scene. kamikaze drone attacks. political analytics, objectively and meaningfully. there is

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thanks, pinned comments, custom icons, and the ability to chat one-on-one with the espresso team. click sponsor and become part of the community with a ukrainian perspective. vasyl zima's big broadcast, my name is vasyl zima, two hours of air time, two hours in time, we will talk about the most important thing, two hours to learn about the war, serhiy izgurets joins our broadcast, the military results of the day, and how the world lives, what yuliy fisel will talk there in the world, for two hours, in order to keep up with the economic news, i will hand over the floor to oleksandr people of morchiv, he will talk about the economy during the war and sports news. evgeny pastukhov is ready to talk about sports. lina cheshenina is ready to talk about culture during the war for two hours in the company of her favorite presenters. leaders that many have become. dear friends, maybe the weather will at least give us some optimism , mrs. natalka didenko is ready to tell us, as well as the distinguished guests of the studio, we will have

volodymyr ogrysko today, if everything goes well, the events of the day in two hours. vasyl's big broadcast in winter is a project for smart and caring people espresso in the evening. we continue the information broadcast on the espresso tv channel. our guest is davyd petrosyan, director of the ukrainian academic theater named after ivan franko. i congratulate mr. david. and mr. david came to our studio right after the regular premiere of another premiere performance, which is now taking place on the stage of the theater named after him. zenkovetska, the lviv academic theater, the national name , maria zenkovetska, the play zemlya za, already a classic such novel by olga kobylyanskyi, but, to be honest, i don't know if it's possible to call it a play based on the story of kobyliansky, because it seemed to me that you somehow tried , well, this is my impression, to create some kind of biblical plot from it, such a story of cain

and aval, and you have it as the first line in the play of the play. well, i think that if it was successful, then the author also laid it down, because a classic does not just become a classic, it covers many topics, it’s just that any good author probably does not try to illustrate them in a literal way, so here is one the director can capture one topic, advance another the director is different, it still seems to me that this is a biblical parable. in this story, it has a primary meaning, so somehow, well, you understand, this is one story, but another story after all, i don’t know how well i managed it, the responsibility and parents, this is also a kind of biblical story, as far as the parents

are responsible for the actions of his children, therefore, but i believe that this is free will. kobylyanska is still in the work, of course, but there is always a question about the era, you understand, because when kobylyanska created her work, well it's just that she was a teacher's daughter there, an emancipated woman, with different languages ​​that she knew, you can say that there, such an example, you can even talk about the example of feminism, which almost didn't exist then, but she was just that, yes, she . we can confidently say that she is the first, almost the first feminist, and it seemed to me that this work , as it was created, is about peasant life, such classic ukrainian narratives of this peasant life, but then there, like a bell ringing, sounds , it is still an essay about urbanization, we need to study a child so that she does not live on earth, this is such an antithesis, and you do not have this antithesis

, it is an interesting topic, because, for example, literally... a little later , the novel city was written about it, in fact, it is completely about it, and here it is interesting , that you noticed that the mare, because the novel does not end as in the play, the novel ends, it ends, that one of the main characters still leaves the land with her children, leaves the village and goes to the city, her, her children will be already... these generations will already be torn from the earth itself, er, this this, this story in the novel, but every performance, apparently it is, after all, impossible to fully capture the novel, you still isolate some specific , certain topic, and therefore, as you have already noted, this biblical message that we put in, it is the main one, because

someone can be offended, who can be very loves in kobylyansk, that we may not have used all the potential in the performance, but it is impossible , absolutely, well, in general, how to read ukrainian classics now, taking into account the fact that it was a classic of its era and its reader there, this ukrainian reader has changed a lot with its own meanings in the period, if you want without statehood, that is also a very important thing, there are all dialogues about the war, these are dialogues of people who absolutely did not understand why they were being driven somewhere, it is incomprehensible to defend and in the novel no no no of course they do not understand what they are for they are fighting and where they are driven, because it was the empire that decided who should go where, and there is still more of a story about a boyish attitude to the ukrainian peasantry in - in the austro-hungarian, so to speak, military