[000:00:00;00] and there will be no communication between russians and ukrainians, two generations after the war, and just as it happened between soviet people and germans, although the germans changed under the influence of american occupation and re-education, no one will occupy and re-educate russians, they can only themselves to change, and in my opinion, the only way, and the only opportunity for them to change... is if china democratizes, and they are now determined to watch and copy everything that china does, then they behind china can also democratize, but when it will be nobody doesn't know, huh, but to be afraid that some new russian-ukrainian relations will appear, which will be expanded, intensified and used by russia, that's it, that

's basically... utopia, that is, it's clear that it won't happen, and and meetings that can take place a couple of times a year with someone who is of russian origin, but is our supporter, is in principle a defender of ukraine and ukrainian interests in this war, they do not actually bring russia closer to ukraine, they rather show. of the west, what, what, what, ukrainians do not isolate themselves, that is, they respect those who support them and hate those who fight with them, that is, they want such european rationality from us in this matter, of course, but of course, that it should not be expected until the end of the war, and maybe a few years after war, nevertheless, if we say with whom we are talking, theoretically, perhaps

, it is tempting to say in this thesis that there are no good russian women, and anyone who is russian, accordingly, is unacceptable to us, but is it this is a good thesis, whether or not we have to, and by the way, then count who there is a russian, and who is not russian, the same masha gesen, as far as she is a russian person, er , she is an american, of soviet jewish origin, who was taken by her parents as a child, from the soviet union, the same can literally be said, for example, about president zelensky , only to say that a ukrainian, instead of an american, yes, yes, and, this is a question that we must also have some gradation here, that is, for you there are some russians, for example, writers, with whom you would not sit down alone, for one table, neither in canada nor in the united states

in the states, nowhere, well, i think 99.9 %, the more so, especially after i read the open letter of support for putin and his war in ukraine, signed by five hundred russian writers, there were many of your acquaintances, with whom you had a good time, thank god, there, thank god, there were no acquaintances there, nevertheless, if we take even such people as the same chhaartishvili and akunin, these people seem to be enough. let's say cute, but they also have a lot of this imperial narrative in their works, i think that everyone understands about akunin, and he himself, by the way, wrote about the fact that, what he understands, that in his works there is a glorification of the russian empire, and this too, this is the reason why, if you sit down with him for a conversation,

then it is to sit down for a conversation and talk about what he is you in... because cultural narratives, and his texts are precisely cultural narratives that were read by millions of russians, they raised the love for the russian empire, they raised, this is the desire to be useful empire and serve it, but this topic is a literary topic, and she is not suitable for talking during war, anyway, sofia andrukhovich, in an interview ... recently said that we should not help the russians to deal with their guilt complex, something like that she said, do you agree with this thesis, i i i agree, there is no point in talking to russians for the sake of russians, i read this interview, i liked it very much, but to talk to people who may have some relation to russia, but to speak for the west,

so that they speak for the west . the right things, i.e. the truth, not tried, if we were to build new narratives, it is sometimes necessary, and in fact , there are very few russians with whom you can... talk, or representatives of russian origin from different countries, that is, we are talking about units, not dozens, you know, there are we had an idea and we even won some financing, but the war prevented us from realizing it, making a documentary film about the ussr precisely because it was an empire, a great empire of lies, and there are already a lot of archival documents that show how much these disinformation committees within the kgb were powerful, and this was a whole doctrine, precisely using disinformation, or now we would say fake news, fake bot farms, and so

on, to destabilize unfriendly, let's say, countries, blocs, to the then ussr, to moscow, and now , when we talk about the fact that the world has to confront one way or another, and we are also the russian narrative. russian propaganda, we also see how different this propaganda can be, that is, we saw that, for example, during the covid epidemic, russians in fact, they attacked just the very ability to think critically, they attacked, that is, for example, the belief that vaccination helps people, that is, they undermined just the foundations of, well, let's say, just rational thinking as such in the world, but at the same time, if we take the russian narratives, it also, for example, gets... it is also turgenev, it is russian literature with its nihilism, with its disbelief in the ability of man to resist evil, for example, or with its glorification of evil to a certain extent,

even its seductive power and justification evil, eh, i don’t know, here is herman hessen, for example, one of those writers who mastered this excessive fascination with russian literature with this motive, for example, whether ukraine too and we, as those who know russian literature very well, and also know the russians themselves well, they can also be an alternative voice here , you know, this topic, by the way, is heard regularly now in europe and in america, the topic of the influence of russian classical literature on the worldview and behavior of russians , on the mentality, that is, nihilism and fatalism, which preached by dostoevsky and other writers, they are the reason that there is no opposition, no protests in russia, and even those russians who left russia as a sign of protest, they do not organize

demonstrations against the war in berlin, they organize demonstrations in support of putin , and here for me the most important thing is that this belief in fatalism and nihilism did not enter the brains of ukrainians, that is, fatalism for ukraine is a foreign, foreign phenomenon, a foreign thought, and that is why ukrainians were not afraid to go out on the maidan, and that is why in us, i would say that civil society is stronger than the political elite, and practically civil society decides what it does... beat and then forces, when it succeeds, the political elite to do what the society orders, there is still one moment left, but for me too, i

think it is important, it is a question of who speaks today on behalf of ukraine, and you know, it is just with the athletes, they showed the best results there and at the end of the year went to the olympics, everything is clear here, we may not like something further there, there is not enough tendrils , then some... was about being pro-patriotic and so on, i didn’t come out with the wrong idea, but the question of who represents ukraine in the cultural sphere is, to a certain extent , simpler than it is, for example, who goes there to head embassies somewhere there, well, but, but let’s leave it aside, but, if we talk about this moment, there are also criteria, this criterion is how many of your books have been published, in particular, how many invitations you receive from international organizations, institutions, and in one way or another you represent ukraine today and represent it, i'm sure well, though many people think that for example your conversation with hema was quite complimentary, because someone wanted more flesh and blood in this conversation, probably, probably me, but the question

is, in fact, i don't want you, if that they took me for what is called evil, what i will say now, somewhere in the 90s, ukraine decided that a ukrainian writer can write in russian, but be a ukrainian writer. and in this category, this means that, for example, andriy kurkov is a ukrainian writer. and remains a ukrainian writer, for example, here in lviv ihor kleh, who was also a good writer, and i read him in ukrainian, by the way, in yevshan zilla, when i was still a student in this legendary almanac, which was already very worn out, which kalyntsi once published, it was translated, some of his works were translated, but he has now become a member of the pen center of russia, and he lives in russia , in moscow, it is about the fact that we made such a choice, we made...' a much wider framework, in

fact, what it means to be ukrainian, we greatly expanded this frame, and we, we, we understood that being a ukrainian, it means to be, first of all, this a political nation, yes, but there is also a certain one, we can see in zelensky , for example, an example when president zelensky has evolved very, very much in literally three years, his statements about the difference between poop and the way he appears in front of television cameras today, this is a very big, big... big step, and each of us has probably come a long way in this way. i remember, in the early 2000s, i read an interview of yours, it seems, to the austrian focus, where are you, where the journalist asked you, what does this trident mean? no, it was even earlier, which means the trident on the coat of arms of ukraine, and you laughed with him that no one knows in the end, it is something like a fork, the question is how we all change ourselves, can we have some kind of unified narrative that... means the interest

of ukraine, what does it ultimately mean for you to be ukrainian, to represent ukraine in one way or another, somehow on the international arena, for me it means first of all to explain, especially now to a foreign audience, the history of this more than three-year war, that is, in principle, to explain that ukraine was it's not ukraine was democratic, when russia was an empire, that ukrainian culture, and ukrainian classical literature, which was not published abroad and was not known about, it existed, it existed and that in fact, meletius smorytskyi and his trenos, this is the same european literature

, like the goths and like er works of ancient german philosophers, that is, in principle, er, my mission is more educational, although i try when i can also collect money for humanitarian aid to ukraine, and i accept invitations to almost any conversations, discussions, a conference where you can speak about ukraine and explain why ukraine is worth knowing about it much more than is known now, nevertheless, this is now my ukrainian mission, nevertheless, i will still ask, personally for you, what does it mean to be ukrainian, until recently before the war, some believed that it was enough to correctly answer the question of whose crimea , or is that enough today, to be ukrainian is , first of all, to pay taxes in ukraine, to have a ukrainian passport, to respect this passport and to be proud what you are...' of ukraine, to know the history of ukraine, to know the ukrainian language,

to support ukrainian culture and now especially to support the armed forces. well, great answer, thank you very much, mr. andriy, andriy kurkov, ukrainian writer, was with us today, thank you for watching this conversation, stay with the channel. it is difficult to talk about what you feel when you have urinary incontinence, an unpleasant situation can arise at any time, even with a slight effort. fortunately, this is behind me, i was helped by feminost uro. thanks to natural ingredients, uro femininity helps to restore control of urination during the day and at night. now i feel confident. femininity under control. buy with a 10% discount. in the chain of pharmacies, we wish you health and the pharmacy of your

family. there are discounts on aflobin cough syrup plus 25% in podorozhnyk, bam and ochsad pharmacies. even at the time in the 12th year, when i finished school, i wanted to be involved , let's say, to serve in the army, and i wanted to be in the army, i felt that way, i wanted something so much, and let's say, in the 18th year a dream came true, my friends told me, oh, this

i wanted you, well, you did it, the choice fell on the polkazov, because my husband was already serving there, 18, well, at the moment, let's say this, when i came and that's why it was a polkazov and he talked a lot about him beforehand, that i already lived, let's say, with thoughts about this regiment , i already loved it, so there were no options, and before i joined the army, i was on maternity leave, i came... to be useful in the army first of all, because we have been at war since the 14th year, i was looking for options, how i could be useful, i was engaged in i had a paper work, i was a clerk, it was difficult

that you have a small child waiting at home, it was probably the most difficult morally, i served directly where my guests were stationed and there was such a need, this is bulofi, that there was such a need for me as a clerk to leave it wasn’t there then, on the 24th we went to azovstralia, everything was calm in the place , well, relatively, let’s say that, people are watching, convoys are driving, here we are, we arrived at zavstal, everything is more or less calm . let's say so, because i did not leave the territory of azvestal, we were in

bunkers, we had, we occupied the territory, er, let's say this, and it was at the beginning, at the beginning of march, we felt, yes, when... we started being bombarded, it was very noticeable, because we were in such a basement room, the ceiling and all that began to fall, so, they began to fly, let's say, to the places where the body units were, then it became clear that we would not be here. a little, yes, and it doesn’t change, it’s all so simple, yes, well, we were together, at first he was separate, in another bunker, and then our company joined

it, because it was safer in it, we were bombed constantly, especially at night. we already knew that at about such and such an hour, yes, we were given commands, constantly ship, artillery, air, that is, it was constantly, somehow we did not follow, we were even there according to the dates, i do not know why, that is, no information was coming, we didn’t have internet in the bunker to go and send some kind of message to the level, let’s put it this way, it was necessary to go to another bunker, or go, if there is a car, we were amazed by the fact that, in general, by the fact that when we found out that helicopters were coming to us with

help, that is, it was such, you know, a chance for rescue, that is. and for the first time, when i found out that helicopters were coming, it was during a visit to zhelizyak, this is ours, let's say, that was the hospital, such information emerged that helicopters were arriving, bringing aid, with medicines, even medical workers, yes, let's say so, they brought it, but it was very risky, everything was very secretive,

it was planned that there would be no leakage. there was no information, we even managed to save the wounded, we were waiting, first of all, that they would provide us with help, and that, well, i honestly do not think about capture, no, well, to be honest, there were such... thoughts that or we will get out of the jam, they will help us to get out of there, yes, well, some help will come, but we simply, well, we will not be able to withstand the defense, and they will come to us, and there was either death or capture, well, yes, let’s say, because here, ah... here is such a full-scale,

yes, what is it, they will say, to appear, this, i do not i imagine they told us that there are supposedly guarantors who guarantee rescue, that we will be exchanged in 3-4 months, that first they will go to the exchange, or rather , that immediately, they will take out our dead boys, then the wounded, and then they will exchange women, i how it was supposed to happen, i wrote to my relatives, i wrote that we seem to be where we are going, i just said that i will not be in touch for three or four months, i did not give, let's say, instructions, but there are such the people to whom i informed that my husband had died, er, and

what to do next, i asked for help, to help the parents, in front of us, at first we stood in valenivka , under this siz, they kept us there, they did not let us go, but then, it turns out, we left on the evening of the 19th, 20th, at night, they let us in, there were inspections, you know, shmoni , it was, it was scary, let's put it this way, because i don't understand what they're going to do with you. so on, that is, you know, humiliation, mockery , and all the more so when they find out that you are from

the azov regiment, then you will receive more attention, because you must be either a sniper, or a sniper, there are no options, well, like the army, it has to be a sniper, these are the options they have, when you look at you, they check your fingers, look at your hands, look at your shoulders, well, because i have to be only a sn , the first days, the first days, this shock, because you do not understand the rules, no, you will be here, there is no information. you are dragged to constant interrogations, well, morally humiliated constantly,

because there are no exercises, nothing, thank god, i was not abused in valenivka, but there were such girls who were forced to work, to wash the toilets there, to help them in a small way, that is. yes, then we were, let’s say, forced to work, because if you don’t work, you don’t enter the soul , after olenivka, that moment when we were transported, we were collected, the whole, well, the girls came in, they said, azov, get together, yes , to be honest, we thought that it was about the fact that we would be taken to the ovmen, but they went to the audience and said that there, tanu, what an exchange,

you will go to the tagan-horn, so i clung to such, you know, for some thread of hope, that we are still through the tagan-horn, but on one, er, uh, well, they put us in the kamaz, blindfolded us beforehand, tied our hands, one by one , let's say, such a chain, uh, they left us on top of each other like that, then threw us, so to speak, took us to the there was. the quest is an interesting quest, let's put it this way, that is, we were unloaded from the car, we met with guys, some of the girls fell out of the car, hurt their knees, so who lost consciousness, well, not us, i don't know who, because we

had closed eyes, proved the rules that we should follow bent and with our backs, who will not obey, let's say, these rules, that will await punishment, we waited for it for a very long time, and to be honest, i stopped hoping, well, when they told us to gather, yes, that's when the thought flashed through me that it might be open, eh. but when they started to take us there in cars, they were telling us everything, so a little panic started , because we thought that they were taking us to a line, before they put us in, they promised to shoot us, well, like, maybe it was a joke, but you know, it

wasn't very funny to us, because we are hostages of the situation. like, well, it will be taken to us, it is not clear where, the things were not given to us, that is, the clothes we came there with, they gave everything back, the bags that were there were not given back, i was taking my husband’s things, well , which i was able to take out, let’s say so, well i didn't get anything back, thanks to ukraine, and i'm at home, when we realized that it was an exchange, then when we were boarded, put on buses, taken off the plane and put on buses, everyone was given a number, but still, that's how you go and think , lord, even if it was, well, that is, really

everyone sat and prayed, there was a phrase, that's all, raise your heads open your eyes, straighten your shoulders, you are in ukraine, in the ukrainian language, er, i don’t know, it was a shock, from the fact that it is really true, like you are covering it up like that, honestly, glory to ukraine, when they let you call your relatives, i called my father, but the phrase was disappointing when they said that the husband had not yet been brought , that is, the body of the man had not been found in ukraine yet, there is no coincidence, or they simply had not been brought to ukraine, that is, at the moment,

nothing is known either, when i called son he didn't recognize me. well, at first i thought that maybe he was embarrassed, he hadn’t heard me for a long time, but later they say that he didn’t recognize me and commented that it was some kind of joke, that the russians joke like that, yes, he then he told me that your voice has changed, and i think you have changed. each of us must fight for victory, must help the army, if it is a civilian must help, if it is a military man, he must fulfill his duties as much as possible, bring us closer to victory, we must fight