[000:00:00;00] some gradation, that is, for you there are some russians, for example, writers, with whom you sit down at the same table, neither in canada, nor in the united states, nor anywhere, well, i think that 99.9%, er, er, all the more so, especially after i read an open letter of support for putin and his war in ukraine, signed by five hundred russian writers, there were many of your acquaintances with whom you thank god, there thank god, there were no acquaintances there, nevertheless, if we take even such people as chartishvili himself, and akunin, these are people, it seems enough, let's say so, nice, but they also have a lot of this imperial narrative in their works, i think that everyone understands about akunin, and he himself, by the way, wrote about

what, what he, understands, in his works there is glorification of the russian empire, and this is also the reason why, if you sit down for a conversation with him, you sit down for a conversation and talk about what he is guilty of, because cultural narratives, and his texts are precisely cultural narratives that were read by millions of russians, they raised love for the russian empire, they raised this the desire to be useful and serve her, but this topic is a literary topic and it is not suitable for conversations during wartime, anyway, sofia andruhovich, in an interview recently said that we should not help the russians to deal with their guilt complex , something like this she said, do you agree with this one, i agree, talking

to russians for the sake of russians makes no sense to anyone , i read this interview, it, i really liked it, but talking to people who may have some relations with russia, but to speak for the west, in order for them to speak for the west, the right things , that is, the truth, and not try to build new narratives, it is sometimes necessary, and in fact, such russians with whom you can talk, or representatives of russian... origin different countries, there are very few of them, i.e. us, we are talking about units , not tens, you know, there is, we had an idea, and we even won funding before the war, but the war prevented us from realizing it, making a documentary film about the ussr specifically despite the fact that it was an empire, a great empire of lies,

there are already a lot of archival documents that show how powerful these committees were from the interior of the kgb, and this was a whole doctrine, precisely using disinformation, or now we would say fake news, fake bot farms and so on, to destabilize, unfriendly, let's say yes, countries, blocs, the ussr at that time, moscow, and now, when we talk about the fact that the world must somehow oppose russian narratives, russian propaganda, we also see how different this propaganda can be , that is, we saw that for example, during the covid epidemic, the russians actually attacked just the very ability to think critically, they attacked , that is, for example, the belief that vaccination helps people, that is, they undermined just the foundations, well , let's say, just simply rational thinking as such in the world, but at the same time, if we take about russian narratives, it is also , for example, dostoyevsky, it is also turgenev,

it is russian literature with... with its nihilism, with its disbelief in the ability of man to resist evil, for example, or with it to a certain extent glorification of evil, even its seductive power and justification of evil, eh, i don't know, but herman getsen, for example, is one of those writers who opposed this excessive fascination with russian letters and this motif. for example, can ukraine too, and we, as those who know russian literature very well, as well as already know the russians themselves, can also be an alternative voice here, you know, this one, by the way, sounds regularly now in europe and and in america, the theme of the influence of russian classical literature on worldview and behavior

russians, on the mentality, that is, nihilism and fatalism, which were preached by dostoevsky and other writers, they are the reason that there is no opposition in russia, there are no protests, and even those russians who left russia as a sign of protest, they do not... demonstrations against the war in berlin, they organize demonstrations in support of putin, er, and here for me, if the most important thing is that this virus of fatalism and nihilism, er, did not get into the cities of ukrainians, that is, fatalism for ukraine is a foreign, foreign phenomenon, foreign opinion, and that is why ukrainians were not afraid to go out... on the maidan and that is why in our country, i would say that civil society is stronger than the political elite, and practically civil society decides what to do and

then forces, when it is possible, the political for the elite to do what society orders, there is still one moment left, but for me too , i think it is important, this is a question of who speaks today on behalf of ukraine and you know, it's just with the athletes, they showed the best results there and at the end of the year we went to the olympics, everything is clear here, we may not like something further there, there are not enough tendrils, then someone was pro-patriotic and so on, he did not come out with the wrong hat on his head, but the question of who represents ukraine in the cultural field, it it is also to a certain extent simpler than it is, for example, who goes there to head embassies somewhere there, well, but this is from the side, and, if we talk about this moment, there are also criteria, this criterion is how many of your books have been published, in particular, how many invitations you receive from international organizations,

institutions, and one way or another you represent ukraine today and represent it, i'm sure well, although many believe that , for example, your conversation with gsson was quite complementary, because someone wanted more flesh and blood in this conversation, probably , i... but the question is that, in fact, i don't want you, if you were to take it from me, for the so-called evil, what i 'm going to say now, somewhere in the 90s, ukraine decided that a ukrainian writer can write in russian, but be a ukrainian writer, and in this category, this means that, for example, andriy kurkov is a ukrainian writer and remains a ukrainian writer, for example... here in lviv , ihor klekh, who was also a good writer, i read him in ukrainian, by the way, in yevshan zilla, while still a student in this legendary almanac, which was already very much rubbed out, which kolintsy once published, he was translated, some

of his works were translated, but he has now become a member of the pen center of russia, and he lives in russia, in moscow, it is about the fact that we made such a choice, we made a much wider frame, actually, what is... what means to be ukrainian, we have greatly expanded this framework and we, too, have understood that ukrainian means to be, first of all, a political nation, yes, but there is also a certain one, we see in zelensky, for example, an example when president zelensky is very has probably evolved a lot in literally three years, his statements about what a difference it is from the way he appears in front of television cameras today, this is a very big, big, big step forward, and each of us must have gone through some big... i remember i think in the early 2000s i read your interview, it seems austrian focus, where are you, where did the journalist ask you, what does this trident mean? no, it was even earlier, what does the trident on the coat of arms of ukraine mean, and you laughed with him that no one

knows in the end, it is something like vedelka, the question is how we all change ourselves, and can we have some the only narrative that represents ukraine's interest, what does it ultimately mean to be ukrainian and to represent ukraine in one way or another in the international arena? for me, this first of all means explaining history to a foreign audience, especially now of this more than three-year war, that is, in principle, to explain that ukraine was independent, that ukraine was democratic, when russia was an empire, that ukrainian culture and ukrainian classical literature, which was not published abroad and was not

known about, existed , it existed and that, in fact, meletius smotrytskyi and his trenos are the same european literature as the goeths and the works of ancient german philosophers, that is, in principle, my mission is more enlightening, although i try, when i can, to raise money for humanitarian help to ukraine, and i accept invitations to almost any conversations, discussions, conferences, where you can speak about ukraine and explain why ukraine is worth knowing much more about it than is known now, nevertheless, this is now its own ukrainian mission , however, they will still ask , for you personally, what it means to be ukrainian, until recently before the war, some believed that it was enough to correctly answer the question whose crimea is,

is that enough today? to be ukrainian means first of all to pay taxes in ukraine, to have a ukrainian passport, respect this passport, and be proud that you are a citizen of ukraine, know the history of ukraine, know the ukrainian language, support ukrainian culture, and now especially support the armed forces. well, great answer, thank you very much, mr. andriy, andriy kurkov, ukrainian writer, was with us today, thank you for watching this conversation, eh, stay with the espresso tv channel. turn on well, it's when everything is as you want. click, and now you're running the game, bird, and you're on a tv show. oh, what is needed, blink. turn on

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water for special medical purposes. events, the most important events. events that are happening right now and affect our lives. of course, the news feed reports on them. however, it was not enough to know what was happening. it is necessary to understand. antin borkovskii and invited experts soberly evaluate events, analyze them, modeling our near future, every saturday at 1:00 p.m. with a repeat at 10:00 p.m. studio zahid with anton borkovsky at espresso. there is a war going on, and not only for territories, it is also a war for minds. russia is throwing millions of petrodollars into turning ukrainians into

dissection and analysis of information about ukraine by russian propagandists, concrete facts and methods by which enemy propaganda turns people into obedient zombies. by historical reunion. let's counter the information attacks of the russians in the chronicles of information war project with olga len. tuesday, thursday-friday at 17:10 on espresso tv channel. every day, every hour, every minute we receive a large amount of information. the most anticipated event of the year, what is actually happening at the front, what are the losses of personnel and equipment on the battlefield, how does the international community evaluate our successes, and what is moscow lying about? from the flow of news coming from everywhere, we single out the most important ones. the world is busy monitors whether there will be weapons for ukraine and how but what are the russian occupiers whispering behind

the commanders' backs? news, summaries of the week - this is an overview of only important events, important, reliable events, this is analytics, fact-checking, professional comments. about this and much more in today's issue, about important things in simple language, available to all viewers. greetings, iryna koval is in the studio, and these are the results of the week on the espresso tv channel. news, summaries of the week, every saturday at 21:00 on espresso. even at that moment in the 12th year, when i graduated from school, i wanted to be involved, let's say, to the army, to serve, i really wanted to be in the army, i felt that way, i wanted something so much, let's say, in the 18th year

my dream came true, my friends said to me, oh, you wanted it, you, well, you did it . the choice fell on the regiment, because my husband was already serving there, 18, well, at the moment, let's say, when i arrived, and that's why it was pointed out, he told a lot about him beforehand, that i was already living, let's say, eh, the thought... about this regiment, i already loved it, so there were no options, and before i became an orderly in the army, i was on maternity leave, i came to the army

to be useful first of all, because we had a war already from the 14th year, i was looking for options, if i could bring. i was engaged in clerical work, i was a clerk, it was hard that you have my little child waiting at home, it was probably the most difficult morally, i served directly where my unit was stationed, and there was such a need, it was in russuf, yes, such a need , so that i , as a clerk, was leaving one, on the 24th we were driving in the city, everything was calm, well, relatively, let's say this, people are watching, the convoys are going, here we are, we arrived at zavstal, more and more, more or less calmly, let's say so, because

i did not go beyond the territory of azovstal. we were in a bunker, we had one, we occupied the territory, let's say this, and it was at the beginning, at the beginning of march, we felt that way, when they started throwing memes at us, it was very tangible, because we were in such a in the basement room, the ceiling was falling and all that, they began to fly in, let's say from the places where the rear units were, then it became clear that we would not be here stay a little, yes, and it doesn't change, it's all

so simple, we were together in our steel. at first it was separate, in another bunker, and then our company joined it, because it was safer in it, we were bombed constantly, especially at night, we already knew that at about such and such an hour, yes we were given permanent ship artillery teams. air, that is, it was constantly , somehow they did not follow, we were even there according to the dates, i don’t know why, that is, there was no information, we did not have internet in the bunker, to go and send some

kind of message, let's say, it was necessary to go to another bunker, or go if there is a car. we were amazed by the fact that when we found out that helicopters were coming to us with help, that is, it was like, you know, a chance for rescue, that was the first time when i found out that helicopters were coming, this was during a visit to zhelizyak, this is ours, let's say, such a... there was a hospital, such information emerged that helicopters were arriving, bringing help, uh, some medicine. even medical

workers, yes, let's say so, were brought, but it was very risky, everything was very secretive, it was planned that there would be no leakage of information, it was even possible to save injuries. we waited for the first time. that they will help us, and what about capture, to be honest, i don't think so, no, to be honest , her thoughts were such that either we will get out of the jam, they will help us get out of there, yes, well, some help will come, but it's just that we won't be able to withstand the defense, so they will come to us, and

there was either death or capture , well, yes, yes, let's say, because , i can't imagine such a full-scale, yes, what it is, they will say, to surrender, this. we were told that there are supposedly guarantors who guarantee rescue, that we will be exchanged in 3-4 months, that first they will go to the exchange, or rather that immediately, they will take out our dead, boys and girls, then the wounded, and then they will exchange women, i before it was supposed to happen , i wrote to my relatives, i didn't write that we seem to be together, that where are we going, i just said that

i won't be in touch for 3-4 months, i she gave, let's say, instructions, but there are people whom she did not inform about the death of her husband and what to do next. i asked for help , to help my parents, my son, first of all, at first we were in valenivka, for about a day, they kept us there, they didn't let us go, but then it worked out for us, we got out on the 19th, 20th

that evening, that means we were launched, there were inspections, you know, shmone, er, it was, it was scary, let’s say this, because you don’t understand what they will do with you next, that is, it’s such, you know, humiliation, ridicule , all the more so when they will find out that you are from the azov regiment, more... attention to you, because you have to be either a sniper or a sniper, there are no options, well, like the army, it has to be a sniper, these are the options they have when you you explain to people that you are not a sniper, that you were practicing there, and they look at you, like they check your fingers, hands, look at your shoulders, well, because i should

only be a dream, the first days, the first days, this shock, because you you don't understand the rules, no, you 'll be here, there's no information, uh, you're being dragged for questioning constant, well, morally humiliated constantly, because you have no skills there. i don't have anything, thank god i wasn't bullied in valenivka, but there were girls who were forced to work, to wash toilets there, uh, they went to their hands in a small way, well, yes, then us, let's say, they forced you to work, because if you don't work, you don't go after olenka, that moment when we were transported, we were gathered, the whole, well, the girls came in

and said, azov, get together. like yes , to be honest, we thought that it was an exchange, something that us they will be taken to the exchange, eh, but the supervisors were walking around, saying that there, well, what kind of exchange , you will go to the taganrog, then we all clung to such, you know, some thread of hope that we would still go through the tagan-horn , but for one thing, er, er, well, they plunged us into kamazs , they blindfolded us, tied our hands, one by one, let's say, such a chain, er, they left each other like this , then they pelted things, brought that one, there was a whole interesting quest, let's say this, that is, we were unloaded from the truck,

met with groundhogs, some of the girls... with cars fell, injured their knees, those who lost consciousness, well, no, i don't know who , because we were blindfolded, they proved the rules that we have to walk backwards with our backs bent, who is not will fulfill, let's say, these rules. he will be punished, we waited for it for a very long time, and to be honest, i stopped hoping , well, when they told us to gather, yes, right away, the thought flashed through me that it might be an opin, but when we were already there, they started to drive us there in cars ,

there they were blindfolded, everything, er, began... a little panic began, because we thought that we were being taken to a prison, before we were drowned, they promised to shoot us, well, like, maybe it was a joke, but you know, it was somehow not very funny to us, because we are hostages of the situation, like, well, he will take us to an unknown place, the things were not given to us, that is, the clothes we came there with were given back, everything was returned, the bags that were there were not given back, i was taking my husband's things, well, which i was able to take out, let's put it this way, well, i didn't get anything back, thanks to ukraine, at home, when we

realized that it was an exchange, when we planted they put us on buses, separated us from airplanes on the bus and gave everyone a number, but anyway, that’s how you go, lord, whatever it was, really everyone sat and prayed, there was a phrase, that’s it , raise your heads, open your eyes, straighten your shoulders, you are in ukraine , in ukrainian, i don't know, it was a shock, from the fact that it's really true, like you're discovering that honestly, thanks to ukraine, when they let me call my relatives, i called

my father, but the phrase was disappointing when they said that che they haven't brought it yet, that is , the man's body hasn't been found yet in ukraine, there is none a coincidence, or they simply did not bring it to ukraine, that is, at the moment, nothing is known either, when i called my son , he did not recognize me, yes, he did, at first i thought that maybe he, you know, was embarrassed, he had not heard me for a long time, but then he says... that he didn't recognize it and commented that it was some kind of joke, that the russians joke like that, like, yes, he then told me that mom, your voice has changed, and like , it has changed, each of us must fight