[000:00:00;00] tools for warning of such threats, because even many experts, politicians, israeli politicians , say that something happened, why didn't israeli intelligence warn about it, but it seems to me that there are even more fundamental things here, because manipulation of international law, twisting it as desired for a specific party, this is an absolute feature of russian diplomacy now, and the fact that the leaders of hamas and the leaders of the taliban, the same, are absolutely hand in hand in moscow, this is a very revealing element of the general strategy moscow, now, well, they cannot defeat ukraine in europe, they cannot, well, they strive to defeat us, but at the same time they understand that, well , for now, you know, today is just today, by the way, putin commented for the first time on the situation in the middle east, i think we even have

this excerpt and we can turn it on now and listen, let's turn it on. iran has long supported hamas and other terrorist networks throughout the region with resources and training bases. in this regard, it is obvious that iran is involved here, but from a specific point of view we have no evidence of such attacks. iran has long supported hamas and other terrorist networks throughout the region. training bases, the ukrainian crisis continues, unfortunately, we see a sharp aggravation of the situation in the middle east, i think that many will agree with me that this is a clear example of the failure of the us policy in the middle east, which tried to monopolize the settlement, but unfortunately did not seek compromises for both sides, on the contrary, put forward their own ideas of how it should be done, put pressure on both sides, then on one, then the other, pressure on both sides, precisely on both, then on one, then on the other, well, here we showed not only putin, but also

the national security adviser. on kirby of the united states of america, but if putin is quoted, well, he actually blames what happened in the middle east, the united states of america, well, on that i will say goodbye to you for today, i urge you to subscribe to the radio liberty pages on the internet, freedom live will be back on the air tomorrow. friends, this is the svitoglyad program, my name is vasyl zima and in the next 45 minutes, in the svitoglyad project, we will talk about how under the conditions in which our world and our civilization exist today, democracy can, i would not say win, but worthily resist tyranny and dictatorship, you know that the parliamentary assembly of the council of europe, now has to pass a resolution

recognizing vladimir putin as a dictator. until now he was not a dictator, but now he must be recognized as a dictator, and in fact, the russian regime will be called a dictatorial regime, and russia will join the circle of those states that are already dictatorial, in particular, we are talking about iran, in particular, we are talking about north korea, i will not talk about china, i have no information about what they have there, what form of government they have there, in any case, i am talking only about those regimes that really exist today have all the signs of dictatorial regimes, these dictatorial regimes have many advantages in terms of how to lead them: war against the civilized world, against democracy, against what we call democracies, the absolute lack of control of the government by the people, absolute, absolute freedom to decide one or the other decisions, absolute disregard for the will of the people, the losses suffered by this people in those wars unleashed by dictatorships, absolutely free, absolutely free opportunity to dispose of the finances of that state and the people in which

they are, absolutely... free opportunity to commit acts of terrorism on the territory of any state to which they can reach, that is, they are people who are the personification of evil, who have no warnings, reservations, rules, laws that could restrain them in their introduction of an aggressive war, or is it an information war, is it an economic war, or is it an ordinary war, a hot war , which we see today in ukraine, and the question arises, what about democracies, what about democracies, what is ukraine, what is the united states of america, the countries of the european union, australia there and many other countries. how can they oppose these dictators, who have a chance of victory, or should we simply abandon these conventions, say that these democratic norms and principles are conventions that prevent us from fighting, and then simply exchange blows, and whoever wins, that will live and say, well, now we are going back to the norms of democracy, we will live according to democratic principles, because

again, well, there are principles, for example, in the mobilization of the population, in dictatorial regimes, no one asks how many people need to be mobilized, can destroy, in fact, half of their population, it does not matter to them, there are certain rules, and there is such a... suspicion or fear that democratic countries, or countries with democratic rules and norms, can the prospect of yielding, globally, to give in to dictators, to give in to tyranny, because they simply won't be able to adequately respond to them and adequately fight this war, because again, if you spend a huge amount of money on war and your population is just begging, it doesn't matter to them at all , he begs, let him beg, well, not like that in a democracy ... you can, you have to make sure that there is enough money for everything, because there are certain rules there, and this is a very important topic, and we will talk today after the guests , the first guest that i i invite you to the conversation, this is serhiy gromenko, an expert of the ukrainian institute of the future, mr. serhiy, i welcome you, good afternoon,

i made a small conditional introduction to our conversation in order to better explain to people why i chose this topic for our issue, please tell me , can we say today that the war in ukraine started, well already...' quite realistically, an era of confrontation, a heated confrontation between dictatorships and democracy in the world of two civilizations, well, in fact, one of which should remain dominant. i wouldn't discount it to the question of civilizations, so as not to switch to some exchange, because then we will have to admit that the russian civilization is, say, something separate, that is, to play along with the russian narrative, or to enter into a discussion about whether it is possible to write china and iran into one civilization, let us stay with in the old terms, with the world

of dictatorships and the world of democratic countries, and it is obvious that from time to time they collide and not because there are any special conditions in the countries. whether the wrong leaders come to power, most likely it is a matter of a certain cycle development, and from time to time dictatorships feel for the strength of democracies, as it happened 2,500 years ago, and 100 years ago, and 70 years ago, and now the time has come, and now to feel whether these democratic countries and their... democratic norms. please tell me, the main goal today, if we say , let’s say so, right away, who can we write today in this new news of evil, which is being talked about, well, those countries, at least, which are actively participating in the opposition not

only to ukraine, but and our western partners. i know that the parliamentary assembly of the council of europe has, well, at least there is a resolution that recognizes putin as a dictator and obviously, then it will be possible to say that in the opinion of european politicians, the european political community, putin is a dictator, and the regime is dictatorial, from yes russia is a dictatorial regime, and it will be possible then to refer to a certain official decision of an official body of the european union, but if we talk now, which countries could be called, or which regimes could be called dictatorial, because i mentioned about north korea, about iran, well , we expect a decision about putin from russia, but i didn't say about china, because i don't know, honestly, i don't know, i'd like to ask you, look. gives such that it is much easier to list democratic countries, or at least countries with a regime in political transit to democracy, similar to

democracy, and 80% of the population continues to remain in conditions of non-democratic regimes, frankly tyrannical regimes, so it is correct if we say already , about the axis of evil 2.0, to take into account a not so internal state, of some sort countries, as a tendency to external aggression, because a dictatorial country that does not encroach on its neighbors, whose dictator is not, is fighting for world domination, and there are even such dictators, well, at least there was one, who really sincerely cared about the development of the underground. its population, relatively recently, then we will understand that such dictatorships, well, this is the evil that has to be put up with, and moreover, the attempt to democratize the violent,

of all dictatorships, on earth, usually leads to other arguments, to completely different results, no matter what arguments or good intentions we come up with, that's why this axis of evil, 2:0, it, and in principle and in fact the americans also voiced it, it seems that the state department has an official list, but we will still look more at real things, the main thing: the hegemon of the authoritarian world, nowadays, in the modern world is, of course, china, until relatively recently, there was, well, a mild dictatorship, regular change was expected, rotation of the top management for no more than 10 years, but even then china showed himself not from the best side

in relation to, let's say, national minorities, traditionally this is tibet, in recent years the repression against the uyghurs in xinjiang has increased , but relatively recently, breaking the almost 50-year-old principle of rotation, the new head of the people's republic of china xi jinping went for a third term, signifying china's final transition from soft. to a rigid internal dictatorship, and a rigid internal dictatorship that does not involve rotation, that does not involve an internal position, it usually ends with an increase in tensions on the external direction, well, because that's how it's arranged, and besides, in recent years, china has introduced some extremely serious restrictions inside the country, the so-called social

rating. something more reminiscent of the totalitarian dystopias that were spread in the west, so china can certainly be called a dictatorship, and there are fears that sooner or later china will resort to open external aggression, obviously, this axis of evil includes iran and north korea, there were several other countries on the list of the state department, african countries. some of them have already fallen out, and some it remains, for example, eritrea can be included in this list, north sudan, of course, and now whether we like it or not, russia and belarus have joined this axis of evil, and now they form

such a large eurasian arc from the borders of europe. to well, i don't even know, to the south, to the south of the pacific ocean, and because of this axis of evil, obviously the problems around the world have increased, the dictatorships, these dictatorships are looking for support from each other, and unfortunately, as we see, for various reasons, they this support is found in each other, i am now adding to the conversation also igor chlenka, political and economic expert, mr. igor, i congratulate you. i congratulate you, glory to ukraine, glory to the heroes, but mr. serhiy and i will speak only until the 30th minute , so i will give you the opportunity to answer one more question now, and you and i, mr. igor, will start from the 30th , there we will talk until one o'clock, well, but in any case, now i will give you the opportunity to say something, i just want to ask mr. serhii one more question, you know, this is a logical question, well, it is clear that democracy is the rules are also certain, but a person must develop, and democracy is what awakens. supposedly the whole society and the harmonious harmonious development of society, it gives

certain fruits and results. dictatorship is a completely different approach, there is central management, there is a rigid vertical, everything is clear, and people basically there is no development of the strong, science, personality, everything else, everything is somehow centralized. what, if we talk about this war, how putin started it, but i think, from the submission of many of his partners, just ukraine has become a point, a point of application of force on that. stage in the 22nd year, and what do these dictatorships want, they understand that economically they will not be able to overcome the countries of the west, because they will not be able to have such economic and technological development, so let's just overwhelm them now like this, well, for what, for what you live, democracies live, everyone somehow coexists, why start this clarification of relations, which is the goal, banal money, banal economy, no, the goal of any dictatorship, self-preservation, and for some time, i will not talk here now... about iran or about china, because these are separate

cases, but with regard to russia, there is no doubt, putin's power is extremely, strongly tied to the expectations of the people, regarding, let's say, if not greatness, then at least a worthy place for russia in the foreign policy arena, and relatively full shelves in stores, russian society surviving the 90s. willingly supports internal anti-liberalism in exchange for handouts from the bar table and early putinism since 1999. until 2008, and then, then more there, this interregnum, medvedev himself, they willingly gave it to the russians, took away their political rights, gave them a little more money , most russians who saw the world, well , at least, at least thailand, they saw it during this

period, not before and no later, and perhaps, perhaps, it established a certain kind of, well, no, not a consensus, but let’s say this, there is, there was, there was such a mutual understanding between the population, the elites and putin, regarding how it should be in the future, but for of late putinism, as we know, this, this stream petrodollars were seriously in need, russia began to gradually creep into an economic crisis, in russia, serious negative changes were taking place on its borders, well, at least that's how the russians imagined it. first of all, i am talking about the ukrainian revolution of dignity, and in these conditions, see, the question of the survival of the regime putin decided to solve in a very simple, as it seemed to him , and amazingly effective way, through external aggression, the great problem of the great recession

of 2008 in russia was overcome at the expense of of the five-day war against georgia, very, very it turned out to be effective for russian society and almost without any consequences for russia as a state, the problems with the swamp area, problems with the dignity in the ukrainian revolution, managed to be overcome due to the annexation of crimea and the war in donbas, then the invasion of syria , and when in the 20th year , putin again faced the big problem of loss of legitimacy, and economic losses, and demographic losses, due to the pandemic. due to an unsuccessful transit, well, they decided that an attack on ukraine, the final conquest of ukraine, would be just the perfect solution to all problems, which russia has accumulated, especially since the experience of, say, the eighth or 14th year pushed them to this opinion. i will not say again that it works for all authoritarian countries, but russia

wanted to solve its internal problems with the help of war. as we know, this did not happen, and moreover, now the problems of russia... have become absolutely incurable, and, but putin cannot or does not want to end the war, and how serious is the influence of those states that might also want to have his benefit from the victory of russia, benefit and more, strong positions in the negotiations with the west, does no one expect anything from russia now, there is conditional china, i am not talking about iran now , because the customs officials are not waiting, whatever ends, that ends, they will continue to conduct their affairs with the european union , to trade with the united states of america, to solve issues there, in the china sea or somewhere with taiwan, well, it will have its own history, which they had, why do they still want to make a nuclear submarine, well, they will make their own lives, and what will happen to putin, no one i don't care if there is now some kind of hook that holds this putin in the sense of how

to proceed in ukraine, as far as china is concerned, as a senior partner in this axis of evil, and much stronger and wealthier. it is obvious that china cannot even afford to rely on russia 100%, let alone let it float freely and let it burn with all its fire, it would be ideal for china if russia won very quickly, it is extremely unacceptable for china complete rout and especially the collapse of russia, but also the defeat of russia and the current confrontation is also long, china is by no means smiling, that is why china does not open... a direct lendlis for russia, as opened by, let's say, the united states, and putin is forced to negotiate directly with iran, with north korea with china's permission, but china will not directly participate in this.

as for the rest of the authoritarian countries, they have their own expectations, they have their own, they have their own geshefts in this war, especially with regard to iran, but to say that they determine the internal politics in russia, i would did not become in fact, the fact that the war does not end is the problem of one single person, putin. if putin was not afraid that the admission of defeat and the retreat of russian troops would not lead to the loss of power, especially in life, as it happened to gaddafi or saddam hussein, he could retreat, but he fears for his life and therefore will continue this war as long as he can. thank you, mr. sergey. grumenko is an expert of the ukrainian institute of the future, and in the next part of our program with igor chelenka we will talk about how are there risks for democracy to lose to dictators and is it possible for democracy to become less democratic in order to adequately oppose it, well, let me literally have a minute before we go on a break, it won't be long, mr. igor, i

will make the seed like this , is there a risk of democracy in its ideal form, that is, in its ideal form, to be weaker during the brutal war imposed by the dictatorship today, the risk of losing to the dictatorship, democracy is based on competition, including competition, respectively, authoritarian. totalitarian regime, and today we have to talk about the competition between democracy and autocracy , which includes various regimes today, and the most important issue here is that democracy does not turn into a simulacrum of itself, because we see that precisely authoritarian, totalitarian regimes, they constantly use democratic tools for authoritarian leaders to come to power, we see it in the russian federation, we see it in hungary. we see it in different parts

of the world, and by the same token, we are, well, we actually are we see that they are trying to discredit democracy, although again, we must understand that democracy includes control, control over those procedures, over legislation, over the access of many parties and opportunities, according to the activity of freedom of speech, this is a number, this is huge the spectrum of issues that in total... states, despite the fact that they are formally, are not formally totalitarian, but the rights of the citizens directly are narrowed, and thus we see now the disappointment, the polarization of the whole world, because in democracy today there are as guardians of the current system of world order, and autocracy, today they see their way to development in revanchism, and this is the main essence of the global conflict, which is now gradually, as we see, increasing its degree.

we will return to the conversation and continue our discussion, whether democracy can defeat the dictatorship in the time of brutal resistance, in the time of actual war and the method of this struggle, what is in the arsenal of democracy, what is in the arsenal of the dictatorship, we will talk about this with igor chelenka in just a few minutes, infectious pause stay with us pain can become an obstacle. walk up the stairs, not with my knees. for pain in the knees, try dolgit cream. kremgit relieves pain, reduces swelling and improves joint mobility. with long-lasting cream. you can also walk. dolgit is the only yellow cream for joint pain. with muscle spasms, long-lasting anticonvulsant tablets. dolgit anticonvulsant to relax the muscles of the gates. oh, there are no potatoes, you will bring them. and already, aschina, something has caught on. i remind you, the mother with the liver bone of dr. tice and zno. you get up to work, ointment with comfrey - german ointment for pain in the

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repeat at 12:10. we continue the program world view democracy against dictatorship, who can win in this confrontation, i will just now announce the information from the israeli telegram channels, the warplanes of an unknown country, interestingly, an unknown country struck a convoy of trucks with weapons, which was on its way from iraq to syria, well , you can go from syria to israel there. the blow was struck near the tsarist city of al-bukamal, well, this is the continuation of the story about the struggle of democracy and dictators, sometimes it is necessary to destroy an unknown country in an unknown place with the planes of an unknown country weapons that can be used against israel. serhiy cholenko is with us on the air, mr. serhiy, you know, i just read a story that shows how confused everything is in this world and the question of choice, the choice

of civilization, i would say, the choice of values. it is very, very doubtful and very, very difficult, there is such a porn star, well, she was there for a long time, she was a porn star for a short time, mia khalifa, she went to the united states from lebanon with her parents, appeared in porn for a while, in playboy magazine, and then the father now supported the palestinians there as well was very happy because they were killing israeli citizens, not only israeli ones, there were citizens of other countries in israel and she was kicked out with a playboy for that, they decided not to work with her in the west, this is the story of a person who was born in one city, lived in another, then in another place, well, in a civilized, democratic one, achieved some result, earned money, well, there , whoever she was, well, well, a porn star, that’s the case, her choice, it’s legal there, yes, and now supports here, where people are killed by palestinians who live alone in poverty, under by the pressure of these leaders, hamas, and the father and the father are a mixture, both in their heads and in their lives, and

where here, as clearly here, i am leading to the point that, as clearly shown here... the watershed between democracy, dictatorship, first after all, in the heads of the people themselves, because there were stories that some people who were at this festival in israel also, well, supported palestine, that they had the right to something there, but then these people became victims of an attack by hamas militants, this watershed, is there a clear boundary, or is it difficult to name it now, or point to it, if this watershed exists, it is that wide. like the dnipro river, so in fact, the russian federation is also playing on this, which constantly uses the principle, not everything is so unambiguous, just using some historical, incomplete procedures, or some processes, including how the situation is very difficult in the middle east , we have been since 1948,

after the declaration of independence and the creation of the state of israel, we ba... how many very controversial decades happened there, and now, for example, a lot, including and among democratic countries, including those that use such democratic tools for contact as the jetter behind the social network mask, which today is the foundation for spreading messages, you see, it was in the year 48 that israel began aggression. there is supposed to be, but look how unhappy palestine is now there, well, that is, we see, in principle, now it is a question exclusively of those standards, of values, which are guided, in general, by citizens or subjects in the whole world, it does not matter whether your the country is a republic or a monarchy, but if they start