[000:00:00;00] russia began to gradually creep into an economic crisis, serious negative changes were taking place in russia on its borders, well, at least this is what the russians imagined, first of all, i am talking about the ukrainian revolution of dignity, and in these conditions, the issue of the survival of the regime, putin decided to solve in a very simple, as it seemed to him, and amazingly effective way, through external aggression. the big problem of the big recession in 2008 in russia was overcome at the expense of the five-day war against georgia, which turned out to be very, very effective for russian society and almost without any consequences for russia as a state. the problems of er with the swamp area, problems with er, in the ukrainian revolution

of dignity, were overcome due to the annexation of crimea, and the war in donbas, then the invasion of syria, and when in the 20th year putin again faced a big problem, loss of legitimacy, and economic losses, and demographic losses, due to the pandemic, due to unsuccessful transit, well, they decided that an attack on ukraine, the final conquest of ukraine, this would be just the perfect solution of all the problems that russia has accumulated, especially since the experience of, say, the eighth or the 14th year pushed them to this opinion. i will not repeat it again. say that it works for all authoritarian countries, but russia definitely wanted to solve its internal problems with the help of war, war, as we know, this did not happen, and moreover, now russia's problems have become absolutely incurable, and, but to end the war, putin will not may or may not want to, and how serious is the influence of those states that would also

like to benefit from russia's victory, benefit and more, strong... positions in negotiations with the west, does nobody expect anything from russia now, there is a conditional china, i am not talking about iran now, yes, because the customs officer is not waiting, whatever ends, that ends, they are on their own will conduct their affairs, trade with the european union, trade with the united states of america, solve issues there, in the china sea or somewhere with taiwan, well, they will have their own history, which they had, why do they still want a submarine there to make atomic, well, they will do it themselves his life, and what will happen to putin, no one is interested, whether there is any now: who keeps this putin in the sense of how to act in ukraine, what about china as a senior partner, in this axis of evil, and much stronger and wealthier, it is obvious that china cannot afford or rely on russia 100%, let alone let it float freely and let it burn with blue fire. for china, it would be ideal if russia won very quickly, for china there is

absolutely no... complete rout and even more so the collapse of russia, but also the defeat of russia and the current confrontation is also long, china is by no means smiling, and that is precisely why china does not open a direct lendlis for russia, as is opened, say, by the united states, and putin is forced to negotiate directly with iran, with the northern korea with the permission of china, but china will not take a direct part in that, as for... the rest of the authoritarian countries, they have their own expectations, they have their own, they have their own heshefts in this war, especially with regard to iran, but to say that they somehow determine internal policy in russia, i would not. in fact, the fact that the war does not end is the problem of one single person, putin. if putin was not afraid that the admission of defeat and the retreat of russian troops

would not lead to the loss of power, even more so. life, like it happened to gaddafi, or it happened to saddam hussein, he could retreat, but he fears for his life and so he will continue this war as long as he can. thank you, mr. serhiy, serhii grumenko, an expert of the ukrainian institute of the future, and with mr. igor in the next part of our program with ihor chelenka, we will talk about how, in fact, there are risks for democracy to lose to dictators and whether it is possible for democracy to become, well, less democratic in order to adequately oppose, well, let me literally here... a moment before we go to the pause is not long, mr. igor, i will make the seed like this, is there a risk of democracy in its ideal form, that is, in its ideal form, to turn out to be weaker in time of war, cruel, which is imposed by the dictatorship today, the risk of losing to the dictatorship, democracy at its core is competition , including competition,

respectively, an authoritarian, totalitarian regime, and today we have to talk about competition, and autocracy, which includes various regimes, today, and the most important issue here is that democracy does not turn into a simulacrum of itself, because we see that precisely authoritarian, totalitarian regimes, they constantly use democratic tools to bring authoritarian leaders to power, we see it in the russian federation, we see it in hungary, we see it in different parts of the world, and thus we are, well, we actually we see that they are trying to discredit democracy, although, again, we must understand that democracy includes control, control over those procedures... over legislation, over the access of many parties and opportunities, according to the activity of freedom of speech, this is a number, this is a huge range of issues that in totalitarian states, despite the fact that they are formally, are not

formally totalitarian, but the rights of citizens directly are narrowed, and in this way we are now seeing disappointment, polarization of the whole world, because in democracy today there are as guardians of the current system of world order and autocracy, today they see their way to development in revanchism, and this is the main essence of the global conflict, which is now gradually, as we see, increasing its degree. we will return to the conversation, and continue our discussion, whether democracy can defeat the dictatorship during a brutal confrontation, during an actual war, and the methods of this struggle, which are in the arsenal of democracy, which are in the arsenal of the dictatorship, we will talk about this with igor. literally in a few minutes, now it didn't last long pause, stay with us. the child caught the virus. mother vera has faith in dekasan. inhaled dekasan gets into the lungs, where the virus is, dekasan works, mother vera is happy,

dekasan inhalation counteracts viruses and bacteria. and dekasan is indicated for sore throat, dekasan is an inhalation antiseptic. there are discounts on aquamaris of 15% in the pharmacies psylansky, bam and oskad. there are plantain, bam, and oskad in pharmacies. no matter what ukrainians think about, no matter what they talk about, war still comes first. war and our victory. espresso only, from monday to sunday. absolutely different spheres of human activity. sports, health, politics, return of crimea, military analytics. nine presenters, journalists, experts. thoughts in real time are more relevant: events through the prism of war in author's projects on espresso. there is a war going on, and not only for territories, it is also a war for minds. russia

is throwing millions of petrodollars into turning ukrainians into little russians. ukraine will become analysis and analysis of information about ukraine, russian propagandists, specific facts and methods by which. enemy propaganda turns people into obedient zombies. for the historical reunion. countering russian information attacks in the chronicles of information war project with olga len. tuesday, thursday, friday at 17:10 on the espresso tv channel. every day, every hour, every minute we receive a large amount of information. the most anticipated event of the year. what is actually happening at the front, what are the losses of personnel and equipment on the battlefield, how do we evaluate our successes, the international community and what moscow is lying about, from the flow of news coming from everywhere, we single out

most importantly, the world is closely watching whether there will be weapons for ukraine and what kind, and what the russian occupiers are whispering about behind the commanders' backs. news, summaries of the week - this is a review of only important events, significant and reliable events. it's analytics, fact-checking, expert commentary, about it and much more in today's issue, about what's important in plain language, accessible to all viewers. greetings, iryna koval is in the studio and this is the summary of the week on the espresso tv channel. news, summaries of the week, every saturday at 21:00 on espresso. hello, this is svoboda ranok, an informational project of the radio freedom. top guests every day, this is the shipping district, kherson. turn on live. we are somewhere in the vicinity of bakhmut,

we are telling the main thing. on weekdays at 9:00. the war in ukraine is the main topic for ukrainians. wins and losses. analysis and forecasts, politics and geopolitics, serhiy rudenko and the guests of his program will talk about all this. people who have information and shape public opinion, people who defend ukraine and create the future right now, the main and interesting thing in the program verdict by serhii rudenko, from monday to friday at 20:00, repeat at 12:10, we continue the worldview program, democracy against dictatorship, who can win in this confrontation, i will just now announce information from israeli telegram channels, warplanes of an unknown country, interestingly enough... struck

a convoy of trucks with weapons , which was on its way from iraq to syria, well, from syria it is possible to go to israel there, the strike was carried out near the tsarist city of al-bukamal, well, this is for the continuation of stories about the struggle between democracy and dictatorship, sometimes it is necessary to destroy an unknown country in an unknown city with airplanes weapons that can be used against israel. serhii chollenko is with us on the air. mr. serhiy, you know, i just now read such a story that shows how... confused everything is in this world and the question of choice, the choice of civilization, i would say, the choice of values, it is very, very doubtful and very, very difficult, there is such a porn star, well, she was there for a long time, she was a porn star for a short time, mia khalifa , she herself is from lebanon, she went with her parents to the usa, there she appeared in porn for a while, in playboy magazine, and then, my father now supported the palestinians and there was very happy that they were killing israel. citizens, not only israeli ones, there were citizens of other

countries in israel, she was kicked out with a playboy for this, they all decided not to work with her in the west, this is the story of a person who was born in one city, lived in another, then in that one in another place, well, in a civilized, democratic one, she achieved some result, earned money, well, whoever she was, well, a porn star, that’s the case, her choice, it’s legal there, yes, and now she supports here, where people are killed the palestinians, who live alone in poverty, under the pressure of their leaders, hamas and otaka otaka otaka are a mixture both in their heads and in their lives, and where here, how clearly here, i am leading to the point that how to clearly draw the watershed here between democracy, dictatorship, first of all in the minds of the people themselves, because there were stories that some people who were at this festival in israel also, well , supported palestine, that they had the right to something there, but then these people became victims of an attack by militants hamas, is there this watershed, is there any clear border? or now her

is it difficult to name, or point to it? if this watershed exists, it is as wide as the dnipro river. therefore, in fact, the russian federation also plays on this, which constantly uses the principle, not everything is so unambiguous, just using some historical, incomplete procedures, or some processes, including how the situation is very complicated. to whom, since 1948, after the declaration of independence and the creation of the state of israel, we see how many, very controversial decades took place there, and now, here for example, many , including among democratic countries , use such democratic tools for contact, such as the same ex-twitter, which is behind the social network , the mask that is today... to spread

messages, what do you see , that is, in the year 48, israel began aggression, there allegedly, but look how rare palestine is now there, well, that is, we see, in principle, now it is a question exclusively of those standards, of values ​​that are guided by citizens in general , or subjects worldwide, it doesn't matter whether your country is a republic or a monarchy. but if they begin to justify the open aggression and open attack of terrorists, hamas, on the state, israel, on civilians, what started to happen on the 7th, respectively, october, then of course, we are no longer seeing here a reaction to a specific case, but

these are all the layers, this whole ten-year period of 50...years and so on and so forth, retrospective in the minds of people, there is no single understanding in the world today , when the un was created, including, by the way, the state of israel, we understand that this as one of the consequences of the second world war, as a result of the same holocaust that was taking place, it was actually the duty of the civilized world to provide such a piece of land, accordingly, for the jewish people, and thus we see today that even the established system led by oon, it turns out that it is not fully supported in a single sense, well, almost half of the world. well, i wouldn't say there is even half of the fragmentation going on today , this polarization is much greater, well , the multipolar world is really being formed precisely at the level of values, and this is the biggest the problem is, because the stratification is not only there by religion, religion in general is happening in our country now , well, you know, we see that it is a tool

for more radical people, it does not matter if it is islam, and what we are seeing now there with hamas, and is it the russian orthodox church, we see what is happening in russia , here the question is not a specific religion, in religion as a tool, plus, again, the economy, the economy does a lot today and it is clear that who pressed the last button to ignite this very war in israel, i i think that these are the very forces that wanted to raise the price of oil above 100 dollars per barrel as soon as possible, those. who wanted to disrupt a new transport corridor from india, respectively through the same israel to the european union, that is, we already see different readings of the economy, and in fact, in fact, today all this is superimposed on a different geopolitical vision, we do not ba, you know,

this is the impression, that the united states still continues to live in such a post-soviet period, trying to be the leaders... of the western world, of course together with the european union, with great britain, and other countries today are trying to use all the slack in order to redistribute this influence, and we see it today at the level of the global south, and really all of this is actually today not even competition, it is already true, it the duel is going on today between democracy and autocracy is what we started with, and it's really, it's a huge risk, because you know, if we didn't have... nuclear weapons in the world, that's one thing, but as we see that certain players who want revenge, constantly, this mace is raised and this boot is raised, what about nuclear weapons, and here the question is not even only in russia, because we see the same north korea, which introduced into its

legislation, a direct requirement to have such nuclear weapons, and this is really the biggest problem, because we are not even discussing this, but polemics about... in relation to civilizational approaches, we are already going to the issue of security, security of the whole world, and this is the most important today, well, an extremely dangerous situation for our and future generations , because we do not see of this rate, and what is happening today in ukraine, of course, it demonstrates the general level, the general level, you know, such an average temperature in the chamber, this ambiguous perception... in the world, if in israel today it is still possible to argue , to say, well, maybe israel is somewhere innocent, somewhere guilty, somewhere or something else , well, there can be different situations, then, if even on the case of ukraine today there is no unified understanding, then today this is a diagnosis for the entire world order and indicates that

well, if the old one doesn't work anymore, then we have it evolutionarily come to something new, but not to what today's eyes need revenge, cannot see the new? there are words in the bible that my people are dying because of a lack of vision, there is no vision for the future, i have the impression that these people do not have, they are not capable of creating a vision of the future, you know, there was such a king david who actually conquered sinai there from with his, avenir and this group that he gathered in the desert of addalam among the bandits, criminals there, gathered an army, took sinai, but when, but he built up israel and made it rich, that even the queen herself shevska said that i... look at the wisdom of solomon, but solomon created it, david could not create a rich israel, well , he, he acquired it in blood there with all the negatives, but solomon created it, the same is the case here now the impression that there are no people who can see this future, what the new world should be like, and you know, the most terrible thing here is that we are now talking about democracy, about dictatorship, but it is banal, well, the war in syria started because there too

there were threats to russia, in particular, regarding the gas route through syria, well, let's go there let's start a war, yes, here. here now again saudi arabia, israel, well, i understand, through jordan, the oil corridor , yes, let's start a war in israel, ukraine, they found a lot of rare earth metals, which are very necessary for the development of many modern devices, even more than china's reserves of rare earth metals may be in ukraine, but why don't we seize the south of ukraine, where it all lies , and you understand that, well, you know, it's disgusting what you're looking at, and it's banal, it's money, well, the opening of america, the destruction of the indians is money, christian campaigns - money, these are resources, and you understand that all these things that stand under the banner of faith, democracy or dictatorship, allah or someone else, some values, basically you understand that these are just money and resources as the opportunity to control the world, then how to do it so that, even despite

all these disadvantages, well, these ideas were there somewhere, because when people perceive the shooting of people in buch or in mariupol as normal, and they also perceive the shooting of people in israel as normal south, in the south of israel in these kibbutzim and on this festival, well then, then it doesn't matter anymore, then democracy as a civilization, then why is it, it should remain in people's hearts. how to save it, most importantly? it is obvious that you have really paid attention to wealth, let's say it like this, as one of the elements of propaganda and democracy, and now those autocratic regimes that continue to develop, enrich themselves economically, even now the greatest oil traders, pay attention to how the economy is being rebuilt there united emirates or saudi arabia, you

you see that they invest as much as possible in precisely the non-oil, non-energy sphere, that is to say, not redeemable minerals, but in this way they do not change today in their own approaches, in relation to, and there relation to, human rights, and indeed, precisely from the point of view of the economy, and not only the economy, but also the well-being of future generations, i think that this should be a central approach, because in fact, today, in this, in general, the information noise in which western society lives, they are lost, well let's say yes, the emphasis is on the development of the common people, where to go next, for some reason, you know, for example, the topic of space, now pay attention, just totalitarian states, there in general...' critical, especially china is betting on it, to show their technological prowess, to show that what used

to be there in the united states, they can now spend money on it, and at the same time wealthier, accordingly, their population and economy in general is rising, although of course not at such a pace , and everyone starts talking about there is a possible recession there and so on, that india is now gaining momentum there plus 7 gdp and so on, but nevertheless, simply china has already reached such a level of development that it can afford not so active pace of further development, and at this at the same time we see the total aging of the population in the european part of the world, look at what is happening in the united states , which today is gnawing, just gnawing politically, and many of my acquaintances who live there even wonder whether some internal conflicts, and on

this is what the russian federation is playing today, as much as possible, russia feeds it with its propaganda, which constantly reminds them of the civil war, and this whole topic with the trumpists is now just a crazy field for them to cultivate and they do it, the russians accordingly do it in the united states, for large sums, including, we understand that in general, just... the democracies are like in ukraine, but we still have to understand that the independence we declared in 1991, we can consider ourselves new democracy, precisely on our territory we would could, in the future, create a certain synergy in terms of the development of democracy, without falling further into authoritarianism, well, although again we had such cases when yanukovych was returned to power there, but we had several revolutions that were able to correct the whole matter, ukraine

can become such a center of democracy and further economic development today thanks to its transit possibilities, and the existing resource base in terms of minerals, and of course human potential, and that is why i think that just such a salvation for world democracy, and such possibilities were also seen in the kremlin, and that is why they started this large-scale stage of the war, because they understood. that it will not only be a salvation for democracy, but also a certain mirror for russia itself, that there may be another option for development, and that is why we have what we have today, but for ukraine, of course, this does not mean that it is necessary to turn 180 °, we have to continue to develop our own democracy, the question is exclusively under what conditions, for example, the topic of elections is very relevant now, and which we see that the western partners today, well, in fact bet on it, but how to spend them?

to each of the forms, to each of the forms of voting, there are questions about electronic voting, about voting by envelopes, which again, the question is to come directly to the polling station, when we have a million mobilized, that is, we understand that in such a situation, it is a very difficult way , but nevertheless for ukraine today, i think that if we go to the global, to the macro arena, then ukraine today can really be the savior of democracy there in the confrontation with autocratic regimes, the most important thing for us today to defeat the russian federation, you know, well, in history there were such battles that actually determined the next stage... of the development of civilization, let's say in 331 the battle of gavgameli, when alexander the great defeated darius ii, in fact the khimeni empire was destroyed and the hellenistic world began to develop more actively , although then, of course, from a military point of view, alexander the great had much less strength and means, but he was able to defeat darius, well, let's say, we can talk about 770, in my opinion, the year karl martel and the knights, the crusaders, the battle near

the city of tours, when the invasion of muslims was stopped, to europe, to france, well, but to europe in general then it was actually stopped and europe remained christian, that is, there were such decisive battles in history, and here is the second world war, let's remember, but now this battle is also going on, the only question is that maybe at that time people had a vision of what they were fighting for, i do n’t know, ukraine knows what it is fighting for, for its land, for the safety of its native people, for the opportunity to be yourself and to be ukraine in general, is it possible? understanding in the world, i, well, it's really hard for me to say how big the role should be. ukraine today is in communication, i am looking at it now, in romania they canceled the speech of the president of ukraine in the parliament, you know, you can always treat president zelenskyi differently as a politician, but we all support him as our president, as a representative of ukraine in the world. that's why it's unpleasant for me, and the romanian deputies themselves, who wrote that it's a pity that he won't speak, it's just a matter of communication, in our literally two minutes, but tell me, please, what possible communication ukraine should give to the world today, what we are fighting for, we

are actually one of us, this well , unfortunately, it has already spread, what we should say, for what values ​​and for what , what we see in this war, what we are going for, well, actually death, at least our soldiers, so exactly , please, well, it is obvious that we should be a model state, a state where corruption has a downward trend, where despite everything, the rights and freedoms of citizens, of course, within certain limits, on which martial law is imposed, but nevertheless... all this is preserved and where an adequate political life is preserved, because in this way we show today that despite everything today we can talk about the further development of democracy, and what exactly we, you know, here is a strange situation, here is the russian federation, which attacked us, they really continue today to further curtail the rights and freedoms of citizens, and even the topic of security

today is absolutely not carried out by the kremlin... but russians applaud vladimirovich and so on. ukraine today it is a country that is completely opposite, i will not talk about anti-russia, because it is a throw-in of russian propaganda. ukraine is ukraine, and it is building its politics, today so fruitfully, i generally believe that we were able to endure these one and a half years thanks to a strong, deep state, ukraine, the same as the deep state in the united states. this deep state and civil society were born in ukraine together , of course, as today's best representatives in the defense forces of ukraine, which defend our state from russian aggression, so today we must continue to be this example, because the further the elections in european countries, the united states, will plunge, there will be an absolutely objective polarization of society,

but nevertheless we must remain today as representatives of the light. this watershed that we talked about, it must be preserved, we cannot blur it, the advance that the world gave us and that is not even an advance, but the result that our defenders on the battlefield and our civil society earned, thank you very much for the comments, thank you very much joined, ihor chelenko, political and economic expert, i am the end, you know what i will tell you, our dear viewers, thank you very much, mr. igor, we say goodbye to you and wish you a good day, i will say the end, you know, there is such a film. passion of the christ by mel gibson, there james caviezel plays christ and he walks with christ on his back, he is beaten, he falls down the road of tears, and mary comes and says, what are you doing to christ, and he says: i am making everything new . i think that ukraine is in this war, and everyone, well, most importantly, it is like that in the image of christ, who makes everything new, goes to his calvary, we believe that a new world will emerge from