helps and protects the child. the prohibition method does not work, trust is effective. read more tips in the cybersecurity section of the dovidka website. info. let's go together. how are we? in any way? we are afraid, we cry, we laugh through tears, we shudder at the news, here and abroad, in the trenches and in the rear, but we grit our teeth and move on, because we have something that does not go out. our secret power, the source of which is within ourselves, every day, every second. february 24, life has stopped, what to do, how to live on, no one needs me, acting is not needed, exit i found myself unexpectedly, my neighbor knitted a sweater and gave it to me, and when my friend was going to the front, i gave it to him and said: wear it, let it warm you, then i received a letter, friend, everything is necessary for everyone, i

tried to go myself, these hands, which know nothing, tied not a masterpiece, but a very warm thing, as well as in life, if it is very difficult for you, look for a way out, if you want to learn how to help yourself and others, go to the website how are you. com, congratulations, dear viewers, the time has come that natalka and i are waiting for, this is our 9 p.m. friday, our long conversation, in which we can look ahead a little and understand where, in principle, we should move for ukraine, especially now, when we see such a very tough arab-israeli conflict, it started just a few hours ago, we see such a ground operation, we waited a long time to see if it would start , whether tsakhalu will enter, the gas sector has entered, and actually, what is starting now, what can be ignited from this flame. what is the advantage or

disadvantage of ukraine, what is the hand of the kremlin, is it there, or excuse me, hamas learned to use the rep systems on its own, why not never happened, that's what we want to talk about with our guests now , natalya, you haven't touched on today's topics, well , it seems everything, except that today hamas announced friday the 13th as the day of worldwide jihad, and they called for pogroms of jews all over. well, let's talk about the fact that this is the third world war, if we consider the third world war to be a hybrid and cold one, it has already happened, but it is not whose fourth, not the beginning of the fourth world war, we will talk about it today, yes, let's introduce our guests, i think most of you already recognize, of course, valery klachuk, political scientist, head of the vezh center for public analytics, congratulations, you, natalya butyrska, an expert on east asia, congratulations, ladies, congratulations, good evening, and taras zagorodnyi, manager.

partner of the national anti-crisis group, mr. tarasu, good evening, look, i will obviously start with such a thing , because, ukrainians, we live, and palestinians and israelis are also fighting on our front, and, by the way, i do not know whether they have already left their front, but one way or another i can see the appeal of the palestinians, who say only , so don't let the ukrainians get involved in another, more global conflict, i see the israelis. whose hearts are breaking and they say that what hamas has done there to our children, women, to our kibbutzim, it is an atrocity there and so on, eh, and eh, i understand that all the ways out of this situation are bad, well, there it is somewhere, this is my point of view, it is completely personal and maybe even subjective, well , of course it is subjective, and i don't see any normal way out, i don't see how it can intervene there to the world.

community, because necessarily one of the sides does not listen, as it was before, yes, i do not see when one side clearly defeats the other side, and the world somehow becomes different and divided and could at least somehow extinguish this conflict, and in a word, how to solve it, and i absolutely see the same parallel as what is happening here on the russian-ukrainian front, and it seems that the same conclusions can be drawn , you know, on the example of... the palestinian-israeli conflict , turns out and about our front, this means that it is also practically impossible to find a way out of this war, that is, either one side has to destroy the other, simply destroy, and in this way someone will remain the winner, or, well, a lot of questions arise on the example of, let's look at the israeli-palestinian conflict, yes ?

well, the issue of the fourth world war is just as thorny, well, i also wanted to add that despite all this , the american aircraft carrier group is already approaching there with planes, with tavmahawks, and this is really a threat that if america and iran, then this is already on a completely different scale . first, how do you feel when, for example, an israeli and a palestinian are sitting, how, how do you behave, you can ask, it's such a human question, start with how, well, in relation to whom, and to that, and to that, well let me say my opinion, the fact is that we have mixed hamas and palestine in the public dialogue. and now they are starting to work out this message, and basically, i think, most likely initiated from the united states of america to a greater extent, when they want to divide and separate hamas from palestine, to show that

this is a terrorist organization that was formed, including with the help of the palestinians, the americans want to separate, not only them , but they started this process, in my opinion, because today's meeting of blinkin with the president is a very vivid example of the fact that palestine is officially separating itself from hamas, she is trying to do this, at least i see such signals, remember, biden addressed the russians, and he said something similar, that the russian people are not putin, remember, well, here is an analogy, here is an analogy , because in relation to there historical dimension of the conflict, here we have completely different stories, palestine, israel, russia, ukraine are different, so i think that this campaign will be active. and today, although there are certain clashes in the west bank of jordan, certain, but they are of such a massive nature , at least, and the official leadership of the united states can fly to israel and to palestine, so officially the nature of the gas sector, you mean, please mass character as in

the gas sector, there is no such thing there, at least it is not fixed, the gas sector is absolutely another enclave that is not under control, well, let's say this , again, i don't want to run into criticism in some official palestine, yes , let's say, official autonomy, which still exists, there are some relations in israel with palestine, they are, they are, it cannot be denied, so i think that the west will move in this direction more quickly, in the direction of the destruction of terrorist organizations, which number tens of thousands of terrorists there, and this will be presented as the promotion of a separate arab world, not the whole, the division also took place there, in creation of terrorist organizations. alya, hamas, hezbollah, others, and in this way, this, this is the way america will demonstrate its further consistent fight against terrorism, you did not answer the question, if israelis will be sitting next to a palestinian, he says, if the palestinian is not

a representative of hamas, so now we have to divide, well, at least we have to do that, especially since the policy of the european union for many years was based on supporting palestine. today they receive in spades the accusation that they financed to a certain extent the creation of these terrorists, of course, now a decision is already being made very quickly, regarding the recognition of hamas as a terrorist organization, i do not know why we are taking so long for this, and with that, we do not have an official decision yet, already france has recognized, the eu has recognized, the united states of america has recognized this for a long time, that is, it is precisely the moment of realizing the relevance of the fight against terrorism as such. the question of recognition of the mutual, well cor, or common border, palestine, israel, i don't know how to solve this question, i don’t have any answers to these questions, i don’t want to look for them, because this is their internal question, the question of the relationship between these two, well, okay, one state is recognized by everyone, the other is partially recognized, after all, it is partially

recognized, it should also be discarded you can't use the levers, it can't even be compared with taiwan, it 's not the same story there, almost no one recognizes taiwan in principle, and something different with palestine. therefore, it is a difficult process, but the most important thing is that if even in the course of this foreign operation the goal of destroying hamas is achieved, i believe it will be a success, there is threats, intervention in this conflict, namely lebanon, iran, they are already talking about it, qatar is behaving rather ambiguously, besides, it is more likely to support israel now, against the background of good relations with the usa, the statements there are controversial, will i add gas or not ladies, we are blocking the accounts, well, who knows more about the topic, but if the goal is achieved, this is the very meaning of hamas, then... i think that here palestine and israel, at least for a while, will realize the need for dialogue from valerie, and at what cost we will understand that today's statement that the million palestinians have to leave somewhere in 24 hours, even it is amazing, how many of us left, in 24 hours, well, with closed

borders, if poland closed the borders like egypt, i think it is much less, the question is why egypt closed the border, you, by the way, hamas is also very much in the territory. from this side, this is what we fear, well, not all, yes, in the gas sector, the palestinians, they support hamas, but many, how, how to filter, people with weapons, not always, we, in fact, every day record cases in ukraine, when the service security of ukraine detains the collaborators, they are unarmed, no, first you have to stop people with weapons, and then do the filtering for what they are doing, a warning has now been given that you are leaving, how you are leaving, there is a problem, there is really no humanitarian corridor organized, we have a corridor was organized... humanitarian from mariupolyaupol, well, yes, well, you see , we are even on the same wavelength, that is, in this part we

have a similar story, we have a similar problem, but it does not have a linear solution, at least, if we recall , dig a lot deeply, let's remember, because then we will spend two hours in this conversation, how the second world war ended in europe, in eastern europe, how many people were destroyed already after the end, why collaborationism and so on, although at that time there was no such legal concept yes, but thousands... tens of thousands of people were destroyed without a trial, that is, it must be understood that war has such consequences, it is not a simple story, they wrote a book, read it to the end and that's it, we finished it, no, we pass the word, yes, regarding israel-palestine, to be honest, i have this experience came into contact in 1994, that is, we lived in a dormitory where there was an institute of international relations, and even then we did not evaluate well, such times were what, what, what kind of conflict. but we had both israelis and palestinians who studied international relations, and

between them, that is, we got along very well with both of them, to some extent, this is the year 94, we did not know a lot, such an image was somehow demonized palestinians, jordanians, we, young students without experience, were sometimes afraid to make any contact with them, because they are such an image, well if not terrorists, then terrible people, he existed, but he established contact very well, but among himself, of course, not, and periodically there were clashes between them in the dormitory, when the police came and dispersed at that time, the same was the case with us , armenians and azerbaijanis, that is, like us, we now have the experience of war, well, of course , we can somehow divide, divide sides, if we are talking about people, just like that, about contacts with people, it is easier, because we can sympathize, we can, we see when we talk about the civilians that are gassed, because

there are our ukrainians among them, so that in israel, there are our ukrainians who died, we say it with sympathy for civilians, of course, when we talk about terrorism and the revelations that were made, we see a parallel with buchi, with buchi and so on, with our cities, the wound has not healed, that is, in this respect , of course, it is more difficult for us politically, because it is on the one hand, ukraine is already using this experience and we have to a certain extent i am trying to somehow get involved on the one hand in this story, as our politicians do, so that the help that will come from the american side in view of the support, then of course it should somehow be in this context, in this direction, yes, but on the other hand, of course, we should not deviate too much from the context, because there is also the european union, which is cautious.

.. on the one hand, on the other hand, there is no objective to aid palestine, to the current situation, and there is also the world and the arab world, and we, it can be said positively, built certain relations with saudi arabia and had help in the military conflict, and very seriously considering the exchanges that took place with the help saudi arabia, that is, we understand that today, in this war, the arab world was divided. old, unhealed and very old wounds have been inflicted on the world and israel, and accordingly, now they are looking through this magnifying glass, who you are, who you are with, that is, unfortunately, this is a difficult situation, and accordingly, it is really difficult for us to choose in this situation , we, we don't have to choose a side, and we have to be very careful with concepts, of course, that you draw parallels with your country, and ms. natalya, we don't have to choose a side. and when we have a war going on, we demand from the world, choose

side, you see, that is, a difficult situation, we somehow have this balance so that, i really, on the one hand, we have to be on the side of the truth, because we really cannot justify a terrorist organization, and here the correct approach is that that hamas is separated, for example, from palestine as such, that is, such difficult formulations, however, you understand, mrs. natalya, look at mr. valery says that the americans set this trend of separating hamas from palestine, for me it is such a personal know-how, when i started... thinking about this problem, me too came to the conclusion that hamas is not the palestinians and not palestine, you understand, but when we asked an israeli on the air today, who joined us today, whether he separates hamas from palestine, he swam and the answer here was about how

palestine began, some territories, how it was historically formed and so on, and so on, he was not ready to separate hamas from palestine, this is now a question for us russians, but you understand, all these questions, but all these questions, they resist, for example , also in a whole block of questions, and one of them, we have been building our relations with the arab world for so long, which we have ruined in 30 years, we were so happy because jeddah happened, and suddenly we take sides, one side of the conflict, and our president makes a statement about it , and the arab world is watching, and what does ukraine say, well, the situation in 1948, when the state of israel was just announced, when all the arab countries, instead of there being two, the un resolutions provided for the creation of two states on the territory, there were

separate, this is how israel declared its state, yes, and that part of the arabs did not declare, they started a war. against israel, yes, that is, here and the state did not, did not announce, in fact , let's start with the fact that israel, and was already actively rebuilding relations with the arab world, peace treaties were signed in 1979 with egypt, when anwar saddad came, he generally spoke in the knesset, he was later killed in a parade for that, including, but the first actually officially signed peace treaty... was precisely with egypt, which fought, the last war was precisely on the day of judgment, the anniversary of which anniversaries, we can say, we celebrate 50 years ago, in fact , treaties were signed, the peace treaty with jordan was signed in 1994, that is, israel has defined borders, yes, the only thing that has not yet

been signed is syria, but they are still at the stage of war with syria , in fact, and signed with lebanon. number, that is , there by all, that is, the borders of israel are defined, because they are determined on a bilateral basis. next, israel actively built relations with arab countries. it was signed several years ago for during trump's time with bahrain, with the united arab emirates and was close, even an agreement with saudi arabia. further, the very attitude towards the palestinians, what we call, is also in the arab world. ambiguous, let's start with that, the first is such a story, when they were actually pushed out of jordan, when yasser arafat with his organization in the 70th year, then it was in the 68th year, the organization for the liberation of palestine started, well, it was based in jordan, and used that area for attacks, for various things,

eventually started a rebellion against the king of jordan, and jordan expelled them from its territory... including the use of troops, then , egypt itself, here we see the reaction, here is the question, why does egypt not want to let in, for example, there is a common corridor, a corridor, and what do you you don't want to, but you know that hamas is recognized as a terrorist organization there, that is, you don't need to, you know, consider, think about what it is, look in the context, in reality, of course, that we gravitate towards israel for obvious reasons, that's why that it is similar to ukraine, you asked the question whether there are parallels ukraine and russia are also quite large, i will tell you, and because we also have a question, the russians say, this is not your territory, yes, they also say to israel, this is not your territory, there is a question of whether there is jerusalem - whose is it yes, it is a city of three religions, in fact, judaism, islam and christianity, and we also

have a question, because for russians kyiv and crimea are sacred places. why, because it is part of their state mythology, you know, there is a good series of books by serhii plokhiaz and the lost kingdom, the abraham of europe, and there it is described that russia, how the muscovite kingdom positioned itself, why it believed that it had the right to everything, because they said, and we are the direct descendants of someone, volodymyr the baptist, of the kiev throne, this is part of russian mythology, in russian, in general. russia, the empire, and whether we have signs of even such a religious conflict with the russians, it is there, we must be clearly aware of it, do we have: signs that you know, as gol dar once said, they want, we want to live, they want our death, we have quite a small space for

for a compromise, and that's it, they want our death, they want our death, yes, we have to understand that, in relation to the arab world, well, look, well, we are doomed to cooperate with israel, let's be clear and so on, so on , even if we see the administrator. biden now wants to doomsday, because our partners show sympathy, yes, there is sympathy, and it is actually very good for us to see that there is even a one-to-one aid package that wants to accommodate both israel and ukraine , because for the deep american state, well, the stars have aligned that they have a political split there so that trumpists also vote for this package, they announce let's make it ukraine, let's talk about america separately, how should we behave? now ukraine is in this situation, yes, we have many parallels , but natalya has already said that we have only started to build , we have only just started to be heard in that region, whether

we should take a side or not, and saudi arabia, well, saudi arabia wants to cooperate with us in aircraft construction, they helped us create our weapons and so on further, they also want to be regional there , and so on, i'm talking about the attitude to what is happening on the territory itself. the world, it is heterogeneous, i tell you once again, so you should not think that there is such a country, it is definitely here, well, i have a question about egypt, well, egypt, for example, recognizes a terrorist organization, well, hamas is a terrorist organization, by the way, egypt and israel receive such, under the same aid agreement, receive also, just as israel receives approximately 3-4 billion from the united states, so does egypt receives for the same contract, in fact the israeli model, here we say the israeli model there are security guarantees, but there is the egyptian one, it is identical, in fact, so we must take into account our own interest, in

this case, we have an interest, so, first of all , we need extensive cooperation with israel in the field of security, because they have weapons and everything related to it, if they are a situation , we are not against it, we are on the contrary, so they, they decide, that is, it is actually their ancient history, they themselves are there it solves its problems, israel, that's why it takes it upon itself responsibility for his own security, he is building this story himself, i don’t quite understand what story he is building, if now they don’t have enough weapons, there are aircraft carriers coming up, the americans, the americans, the americans have never fought for israel, i understand, but the weapons they in the same way, now there will be 100 billion that biden wants to write out for ukraine and that is why there is an agreement, they have an agreement with the usa. they don't have enough missiles, which you are talking about, nothing, i think that israel will solve its problems, we, we must understand, here is such an agreement, here we have to

a sign, how does such an agreement work, the position of ukraine, i will remind you that israel has done enough to support israel and wants to go to israel, we must be there, absolutely correct position regarding what is there, how it will be there to line up is, in arabic, i said, the attitude to what is happening in it. will not change, well, once again, saudi arabia was ready to recognize israel, and one of the reasons why this war started, why, because just recently the americans were clamoring for the creation of a new trade route that went through india, saudi arabia, israel went to europe, a lot of countries were dissatisfied with that, yes, because in this case there could be many players, why was it stopped, saudi once again. saudi arabia was already ready to sign the agreement. they are very close, their convergence of their positions, it began, well, a few years ago, in fact, you are such , you are so wise with experience, political experts,

but people ask very simple questions and difficult ones at the same time, people ask, ukraine is well there 35 million population, once before as for a full-scale war, israel has a population of 10 million , palestine has a population of 2 million, that's why much more attention is paid to that war and it overshadowed the russian-ukrainian war on the agenda, because russia , because russia wants it, included it in including the resource, this is one of the reasons why russia supported, this is because they want to divert attention from ukraine, this is one time , secondly, there is also a lot around this, well, the war is going on there, well, consider 70 years, of course, that it i have heard for a long time, there are also arab countries that including pumping up the darkness, including, of course, that it arose, and for some time it occupies its own, its own agenda in

the information space, therefore: here, well, plus such atrocities, which the whole world saw, which was horrified, well the day before yesterday, the prime minister of israel posted a photo of children there, for a few months, i don't know, burned, but there is a child lying in diapers, it was simply destroyed, simply killed, of course this is an atrocity, it certainly attracts a lot of attention , and that's why it is for a while, of course, that prevents, but strategically, of course, that is here ukraine must understand... proceed from its own interests in this case, so we are interested in israel, yes, and we will follow a different program with saudi arabia, the more so, i am speaking honestly once again, the arab countries themselves signed it, they actually recognized that the state of israel took place , they came to terms with the fact that it is, despite the fact that it is in the 48th year, and even saudi arabia, which, turkey even restored, well, including turkey, they recognized once again, during the time of

the americans. trump did what the united states did not want to do in america for 60 years, he recognized jerusalem as the capital of israel, but this did not happen for 60 years, he actually , let's talk about it again, we can talk about the world reaction, i mean in world organizations, such as the united nations, i would still like to touch on this , that we hear again, yes, well, the fact is that this is such a discussion of ungratefulness. let's see that these schemes work in general, here are the parallels, yes, here i literally have two words about why it happened that the world reacted to the war, the arab-israeli, arab-israeli conflict, more than ukrainian , no, it’s not like that, let’s say right away, let’s remember the beginning of the large-scale invasion, we were talked about less, no, we were talked about a lot and very much and to this day they are talking a lot, ours hurts

more, we think at a sub-known level, i even look at my subscribers when you post news, for example, about events in the middle east and ukrainian events, i don't see them, i change the question a little then, not why they reacted more, but why the conflict is more understandable, why we convinced for a year the same europeans, and they said, yes , they are your brothers, what are you fighting for, and people there understand everything, well, first of all, we have, i don't understand a lot of things, we have. many times more, therefore, in principle , even in the united states of america, in european countries, a generation has grown up with this conflict, they do not need to be convinced, they react instantly, we need to be convinced, we have already said for a long time that this is how the chossians are, right? brothers, what is wrong with you, you have a civil war,

they told us, they told us, even in the west. therefore, it is absolutely obvious here, therefore, until we got the reaction of the world that they would respond adequately to the events in ukraine, we unfortunately began a large-scale invasion and the eyes of atrocities in the bush, which actually exacerbated the problem, here is the analogy of children, burned as taras says, our children are so-called rapists and i will not say such things on the air, because it is scary to even say what the buryats did with our little girls, you see, that is why there is a complete analogy, it was talked about, we even had scandals , when we are international organizations said, prove the facts of violence against children, yes, but it was, we are currently in the process, because they cannot realize, however, there is another crucial point, if for the world a clearly defined enemy is palestine or israel, well for some, yes, for the world, in principle, russia has never been an obvious enemy, well, it hasn’t been in recent times, we convinced everyone for a long time, well, let’s remember the first resolutions of parye after the annexation

of crimea, but don’t be confused, i apologize, translating into human language, well, it was about nothing , as well as the sanctions policy, and only after the beginning of the large-scale invasion did even the analysts in the congress of the united states of america take this fact into account when they were preparing a new strategy for the united states from 27 to 35 years, well, we will touch on this later, that is, it has already become the basis or point of bifurcation, when you say, you make up your mind, are you for the whites or the reds, yes, are you for russia or for ukraine, we demanded it fairly, that is why our issue of information hurts us accordingly, that is why we take a long time to convince, regarding international organizations, because i have already moved away from this question, because i am a thankless business, what is there to talk about ? that no matter what,