[000:00:00;00] over the full meeting of lesya ukrainka, i was surprised, mrs. vera geyeva reminded me of this, i opened the english wikipedia, because it was written there that lesa ukrainka was a great marxist and translated the manifesto of the communist party, there is no such thing in ukrainian or russian, in english there is, well , it's absolutely nonsense, she didn't translate anything, yes, she passed it on to someone and so on, but, well, it has a lot of documentary correspondence of hers. my friend takes it and edits it in the english wikipedia literally in 20 minutes someone transfers it ago, it went on like this until now, as soon as i literally looked here, it means that the fact that she was translating was removed, but the fact that she was a member of the marxist circle was left, you understand how this system works, we hang our ears, we are happy that oh, we have that here , we have that here, no, they actually work the world, and they

fill it with rough money. this, this is a terrible, brazen concept, when rich and wealthy russian and state diplomats come, just with suitcases of money and buy any gallery, any theater, just as much as you need, 10 million, please, and these people do not even understand hostages , now we are constantly tolling with the french, who cannot understand why so, well, why the russian dramatic ballet and everything else, it must be written, we have come to the point that simply russian words are changed to ukrainian. everything is still russian there, just because it needs to be changed, these people are sometimes either useful fools, or they are simply already bought by these technologies and these people, and this, well, this is really a big war, eh, now our deep corps, well it's really hard for him because the war, everyone, everyone, as they say, the forces are aimed at weapons, obtaining weapons and obtaining the defense of the country, but eh, the cultural mission

of the state is sagging, because ukraine needs lobbying programs, as they are in the world, we are afraid of this for some reason glory, this is a normal term, well, for a society of civilized lobbying, that is, we need people who are significant people in those societies who stand up and understand what they are talking about, we need a monthly article in the new yorker about ukrainian culture, about a ukrainian figure, about the ukrainian artist, musician or a writer, we meet in our place, we are constantly defending ourselves, because half of the american foam, there are a bunch of russian people who manage all this and everything, there, well, ukrainians, well, they have a war there, we feel a little sorry for them here and something else , that’s it, well, it’s all terrible, we don’t have any serious defenders yet, you touched on the topic of the fact that it should be a state program, eh, but we

see that some... ukrainian figures who are called cultural are going abroad figures, then of course there is a controversial question about their culture and significance for ukraine, i have referring to some show business singers who do concerts, i understand that they have no problem with leaving ukraine, despite the fact that they are of full military age, er, in a year and nine months this was it possible to create a program, or at least outline it? some outline of how we talk about ukraine in the world, ms. khrystyna, you had some difficulties with how to convey art to foreigners, how to show it, was there any resistance from the authorities, we are trying , thanks for

asking, we definitely work as the initiative group, as for the artistic world and us, we work with our representative offices, with our embassies, and they, by virtue of their capabilities, create, well, for us such a green light, where we need it, but we directly try to communicate with museums and galleries , with relevant institutions or research institutions, and directly send them our proposal for the promotion of some, well, some artistic product, that is, it is your private initiative, that is, it is our private initiative, of course we, well, in the legal sphere, in the insurance sphere, in export of cultural heritage across the border of ukraine, we correlate with all, well, legislative regulations, and and and help from the state, from the region, if we do it more regionally, but we try to do it not through the ministry of

culture, let's say, directly. with specific institutions, i did not have any such, well, difficult situations, non-acceptance, on the contrary, the cultural policies of this or that country, theirs. the ministry of culture, their ministry of foreign affairs, their private grant programs, they were creating, well, a suitable basis, a platform where we could show our art, they invited a foreign audience, we mainly focus on non -ukrainian environments, well, of course, ukrainians come to those who are there, but the main focus is on other viewers, so there was no such thing moreover, all institutions are prepared, if we are talking about art residences, we take dozens of female artists there and create an appropriate environment for them in collaboration with foreign artists, so that they can work, so that they

can be identified as ukrainian, in by no means russian artists, if we present the academy of arts as a school, then we are showing a more cultural policy of the region, more educational, in the educational plane, as mr. luzhets says, from my practical experience for a year and nine months, well, there were technical aspects of support from the state, such as what we asked for, they helped, but we managed directly with foreign partners, ms. elmiro, and you also had it as easy as ms. khrestyny, or after all, with difficulties, you understand, russia working. where we are not advanced, it's simple, she can't come to an occupied field, she comes where the field is empty, so i think, yes, there are really a lot of cool initiatives that help us

position ourselves and decolonize, even, well, i don't know, those narratives that russia has already imposed on our european community, yes, there are a lot of them in museums, i know that a colleague from the ukrainian institute had a very... wonderful project, they even prepared the following special recommendations, methodological recommendations for museum institutions of europe regarding the decolonization of their narratives related specifically to russia and ukraine, this is whether it is good or bad, well, it is indeed good, but is it enough? yes, this, well, for now it is not enough, and we still really, i agree that there should be an absolutely clear, well-thought-out, developed program that will... work not only abroad, but it must work and within ukraine as well, because we also have a lot of different narratives that we ourselves need to decolonize, to uproot ourselves

and so on, so it seems to me that we need to work, there are initiatives, they need to be supported, but this is still not enough, if so, madam. i also want to add something about this perception, ah, i know that we would need help from the state, we are perceived through the prism of sympathy, and we work very hard to be perceived through the prism of respect , and in this i always have such and such a nuance. you are trying something to prove your art, but it is self-evident that it exists competitive, it is high-quality, it is meaningful, it has a deep, deep history , we, it has very complex narratives that reveal

whole contexts and universes in which ukraine was, is and will be, if the state would support this focus more systematically, then probably this... private initiatives, of which there are hundreds, thousands, of which there are too many, as my colleague said, it does not happen, then it would be easier for us not to prove, but simply to position our identity in the world at the level of ourselves, you know about compassion , it's just that we had a special event today and took part in it harold klim, a public figure and politician, and i see that there are already many challenges in the world, and we ourselves observe what is happening, because the world cannot be focused only on what is happening in ukraine, is happening everywhere,

moreover, this war continues in ukraine and people abroad, they are getting tired, well, it may sound very cynical, but the human body is so arranged, the psyche is caught, that it cannot live all the time with the fact that something is happening in one country , here we have, yes, the gas sector we have, and i see that even soon the focus on sympathy will end, that is, how can we talk then, little by little, it starts to open the door, that is, they sympathize with us , that is, they feel some kind of empathy, someone discovers ukraine for themselves, someone rethinks in the same way, and opens ukraine not through some russian prism, but in a completely different way, like something new, something different, but now we will have to shout even louder, we have less strength, because we are also in it. yes, because we were already knocking and shouting and showing. and here,

moreover, good russians, or good muscovites, push, we see how they push, how they want their voice to be heard. mr. rostyslav, what should this program be like, which is not a state program, and, if not for sympathy, what should it communicate to the world, what exactly should we talk about in the cultural field. plan to remind about ukraine, reminding about ukraine as a cultural country, about all its heritage, reminding that the war is still going on here, well, you see, khrystyna correctly pointed out, about this regret, it is real, poor people, we want to feel sorry for you and we don't really understand you, maybe you are indians there , or something like that, you are probably going to die soon and we will give you 100 dollars each of your cows.

let's buy or something like that, it's a terrible situation, in principle, we understand them, they as people react correctly, it's very good that we, private initiatives , reacted faster, well, of course, the state machine, it's very slippery and difficult, and it rushed anyway after all, these 15 minutes of glory are in quotation marks for ukraine, they worked, which we did not do immediately, i said this and i still remember to the minister and several ministers that even after buchi, and there was this opportunity in ukraine, the state had to... do a large-scale project in the center of pompidou, a gigantic project, they would be given this opportunity with photos from buchi measuring 10 by 20 m and other attributes of this horror, this horror should have been hung in the pope's walls and on the table, this is the mission of the state, this cannot be done by a private initiative, this is a large-scale state policy, i understand that it was difficult for us. then, but it was important,

we had to stop this moment, fix it, so that after it comes this stage of understanding, and not emptiness after regret and fatigue, oh, the war , there are already events in israel, and somewhere russia will generate something else, you expect, this is the generator of these, i have said more than once that all these ee hamas, the taliban and all these movements are all the product of the patris institute... mumba, who is even older generation understands that this, there were several institutions in moscow that generated these geopolitical upheavals, i.e. people who created eyes on on religious, on any ground, this ulcer, which was convenient for manipulation already in the world anything, here we have this, and here we will do this to you, and this entire strip, this part of the muslim world, is now india.

now china, where they will exploit it all the time, and we are here now, our mission is to prevent this wasteland from forming, you say, the good russians will come and say that we are all in trouble and we will continue to command all this, we will be in charge again , we can even get to that if, if we miss this moment, the moment is already running out, because there is indeed too much fatigue in the world, but the state, at least some part has to concentrate on that, no... everyone, everyone goes and asks for what we need there now, and for military actions others, but some part thinks about ideology, because culture and ideology are primary, it is the foundation, everything will be based on it keep going, if we miss this educational ideological and cultural moment, it is always, always, it is framed in the fact that, i always say to young people, that the history of mankind is the history of culture, exclusively, with light interspersions of those people who

financed it. we know sforza and copper just because they made it possible for michelangelo or leonardo da vinci and others to appear, this is the history of humanity, not otherwise, not who sold for how much, and killed whom, it will disappear, only culture will remain, and everything else will be built on it , and it will build its own well-being, some new dimensions will appear. new, new, new horizons to open up for any country, any ethnic group or anything else, it's no different, russia is breaking it, and then it says what it wants, the assembly is an example for you. oon, that is, i'm still waiting for this, an idiot will just come out and start walking on the table with his feet and say, well, i can even do that, and everyone will sit and look at it with their eyes wide open, this is horror, this is absolute degradation and understanding what needs to be done, now there is this, well, these

institutions , at such and such a moment, we must take advantage of it, it is clear that everything is ruled by america, that is, the country that is the most powerful and it must do something before that, suffice it to say, and well here, here here is a difficult moment, we are now such, i think, is one of the most dramatic moments in several centuries, and it actually takes place in ukraine, we are participants in this, why is it still a year and nine months since then, there is no such comprehensive understanding on the part of the state, i don't know, mr...." the minister, well, the acting minister, because maybe i will question him again, and why can't we, well, now they say the pompidou was closed for repairs or something else, well, why can't we make the metropolitan or, well, in some huge, large-scale institution, it's not like that, well, it must be a gigantic project, ukraine he is

right, we didn't have any of these, everything was either soviet or russian, exclusively, and for us we are private, we pull, we can, we have our own khrystyna is engaged in such projects, but this is done by her foundation, where is the state, where are the huge funds that it can generate, they are scattered somewhere, it is not known where, who has encountered budgets and studied them, he can sometimes be horrified by the fact that i encountered the budget of the ministry of foreign affairs, even before the war, there were huge funds for books that no one had seen, i traveled a little around the world, who did not know what it was for, that is, our literature in essence appeared only exclusively through the publishers foreign ones, we don’t have them, have you come to any library or anything, were there any russian books, ukrainian books were not there, but the current situation is leveling out, wherever they appear, they are asked and we, as

publishers, hand over ukrainian books, because to everyone, but that’s so far that they still have an interest in us, so for now please send them, because in any civilized library there should be a book of your country in your language and translations in parallel, this is the law for the state, it cannot be otherwise, otherwise you do not exist and do not exist , you can as much as you want, there in the environment, yours diasporans, talk about how wonderful we are, we all sang, hugged others, and we don’t exist afterwards, ms. khrystyna, if you want to say something positive, look, we have one in if we are talking about the state, such a study has been going on systematically for seven months already in all the galleries and museums of the world, it is find the works of ukrainian artists in the repositories, what we said, we have kuinji, we have it in

the metropolitan at the met in new york, that finally he has already been identified as a ukrainian artist, this is arkhipenko , this is giacometi, who was a student of the archbishop. and today already systematically, this is at the state level, with the support of the ministry of foreign affairs, such research is being conducted in each museum to have its own fund, well, a fund of ukrainian artists, that is , for our scientists, for our scientific, art-historical discourse or art history, this is already a lot , when we will be able to have appropriate sources of research, appropriate bases, matized by world centers, such as met, pompidou, liv, orsay, and other bilbao, it is already a very big start that we finally understand that it cannot be novakivsky in any case a polish artist, or ivan trush must have a different origin there than

ukrainian, as it was four years ago, in the vienna museum they named ivan trush. and not at all a ukrainian artist, there will definitely not be such cases in our country, so this is a positive moment, and this is what i remembered, which is being conducted in one of the programs at the state level, a positive moment that ukrainian dancers are finally called a painting by ed radeg , but i don't know if this is, again , the ministry of culture, or if this is a private initiative of a journalist, it seems that we were actually at the goal at that time. dha girls and this was the initiative of the ukrainian museum on first avenue and they submitted such a request, please change these girls, these are ukrainian tapes, these are ukrainian. girls, but it was only about degai, later four works in the metropolitan museum were identified as ukrainian, the entire exposition

in 58 museums of the world, all the works where there were some disputes, there tatlin, yermilov, whether he is ukrainian or not ukrainian, then yermilov and tatlin, there are already ukrainian artists, well, more than 50 museums have already changed their identity, who were born in ukraine, or have a ukrainian... roots, ukrainian origin, everywhere arkhipenko today saw with her own eyes how the one who was born in ukraine, but lived and worked in america and in paris, oksana semennik, it must be said, is an art historian and journalist, she actually took the initiative and she is yes, i will also add to khrystyna that you can imagine that three or four years ago, no museum in the world had the ukrainian language, there was already bosnian, and which one you want, this is my

conversation with volodya sheik, the director of the ukrainian institute, as i recall now the first thing the crimean institute should do is at least start doing it, because there is no state, there is no language, you come to the louvre and there is nothing, rashen and everything, russian tashenov albums, headphones, everything was russian, and now... it is starting to appear already the ukrainian language on buses, in museums, this is already an initiative of the president's wife, already, this is , this is identification and this is with the presence of the country, this is a 50th-century country, the largest european state is not anywhere in the world, you are not there, it is on the 30th or what about the 27th year of ukraine's independence, it doesn't cost a lot of money, people, this pennies for the state, no, it's zero for the state to finance it, translation.

i can boast, such a small self-promotion, at the beginning of a full-scale invasion, my voice and the voice of espresso host andriy seichuk, my voice and his voice are heard by the audiogt in edinburgh castle in scotland, and already some ukrainian women who got there because they were fleeing the war , said that they were listening and that it is very pleasant to hear the ukrainian language when you are walking in another foreign country. where is it better to leave as a tourist and not as a refugee, mrs. elmiro, before you speak, eh, or the crimean the tatars somehow communicate to the ministry of culture what they would like to hear about them in the world, and what they finally hear from the ministry of culture, and look, i would probably reflect a little on what i heard now, the point is that what such... in general, ukrainian culture or the culture of ukraine and where in this definition is there a place for

the crimean tatar culture or the culture of other indigenous peoples of ukraine, i mean the karims, the crimeans, if we say ukraine before 2014, what exactly was perceived like ukraine, yes, we ask from the perisichny there a european, well, they will probably say shevchenko. i would probably say borscht or something like that, yes, what will they say today, i disagree a little with my colleagues, it seems to me that when you say ukraine, i am from ukraine, people immediately have such an expression as brave people, that is, huh , laugh- laugh- laugh courage, yes, courage, bravery, this is what is perceived as ukraine. now in europe, it is supposed to be, you know, how in their time the vikings got to the territory of europe, and

history took a completely different path, and now ukraine, it seems to me, is transforming, re-transforming europe, transforms their mentality, and in general, we are now already saying that all international institutions, they, they are already inadequate, and even these tools, which today, they do not work, we need something new, here is the answer to your question will be that we ourselves do not know today the answer to what is ukrainian culture or the culture of ukraine, in relation to the crimean-tatar culture, this is a very sad story in my opinion, because the crimean tatars today are in situation of occupation, and the only thing that they can now do for themselves, this is to save themselves physically, in terms of development,

cultural development, it really cannot be a situation of lack of freedom. and that is why culture is encapsulated now in crimea, everything we can do now, we can popularize it, which we are actually doing, also thanks to the ukrainian cultural fund, and i hope that tomorrow at 10 o'clock we will have a tour of the work, well, from my side , it’s on the left, you’re on the right, you’ll see, it’s a small part of our zinizhir project, the works brought by the artist of our project dmytro dotsenko, he is also here in the hall, i see him, i hope that it is because of these works, that a small part of the crimean tatar culture will also be available, and ivano-frankivsk region as well , is this enough, no, really, it is

not enough, the works are still dos, a lot, but it seems to me that we still have to go back to what i said at the beginning, it seems to me that if we rebuild the system, when culture, which is basic for the formation of identity, which transforms the population into a complete society, which transforms the population, that's it the russian population on society, its culture, yes, will be basic in the formation of any politics, then, it seems to me, there will be a place for everyone in the culture of ukraine, because now it is absolutely obvious to everyone that ukraine is facing the question of the formation of a political ukrainian nation, and in this issue, the issue of identity, it will also be, has, has such

a central, central importance, and the crimean tatars... this is very much an open window for the foreign policy of ukraine, as the largest muslim community is a window for building such a subject foreign policy, especially with the countries of the global south, yes, as it is now so fashionable to say, or with the countries of the islamic world, this is such a window for any country in europe, because historically in crimea, there were traditions that should have intersected with each other, there was the byzantine tradition, chersonesus, bosphorus, there was the latin tradition, if we say for ginue gazaria, there was the eastern tradition, tuyur, golden horde, in such a good sense, not what we now compose, but then it's a little ottoman

traditions, and it seems to me that this... diversity of crimea is such a key to building a culture of ukraine in which there will be a place for everyone. thank you. thank you, i think, well, it’s a shame, but in 2014, ukraine also discovered crimean tatars for itself, it’s true, we have to admit it, but in 2022, the world discovered ukraine for itself, and we hope that we will help to keep the name of ukraine on the servant. moreover, let's do it, let's glorify the name of ukraine, and not just to get sympathy. it was a discussion, going to the wall positioning of ukraine, ukraine in the world, thank you for your participation, elmira ablyaliimova, public figure, cultural expert, ex-general director of the bagchesarai state historical and cultural reserve, rostyslav rluzhets, art critic, artist, co-owner of komora publishing house, khrystyna bergovsk, art critic, adviser on issues of culture and diplomacy, head of the lviv regional military administration,

arch-director of the charitable foundation takes place with the financial support of the ukrainian cultural foundation and the international revival fund and the literary and artistic meeting of the word in war was supported by the ukrainian book institute, we thank them for this and thank you, our dear viewers, for being with us, this is carpathia, see you soon. it's 5 p.m. in ukraine, and we have a news release on the expresso tv channel in the studio of iryna koval, greetings to all viewers. during the day, the russians struck kherson again, fired from the temporarily occupied left bank and hit

the district of one of the markets. it is previously known about two wounded, but the information that.