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on... and forecasts, politics and geopolitics, serhii rudenko and guests will talk about all this its programs. people who have information and shape public opinion. people who defend ukraine and create the future already now, the main and interesting thing in the verdict program by serhiy rudenko, from monday to friday at 20:00, repeat at 12:10, started this invasion with enough. a massive hacker attack, which , uh, disabled certain defense agencies of the state of israel itself and actually allowed the enemies to enter the territory

of israel almost unhindered and, in fact, unhindered to start massacring the civilian population in some kibbutzim, which were located again in the south of israel not far from the gaza strip. in addition, there was shooting, brutally shooting spat on, destroying, raping, beating, chopping, the supernova festival, which again was a location, was held in the desert, in the south of israel, and this show of brutality reminded us of the footage we saw in buch, in the south, in rpin, in izyum, what the russians did to the enemy means, on the territory of our state, such an allegedly unexpected war, which had not happened for 50 years ago, in 1973 there was a so-called doomsday war, but it happened again and it actually continues until the end, so far the end of this war is not in sight. we will try to understand what the palestinians want, or those behind them, what hamas wants, above all what

the palestinians who supported hamas want, what israel wants, who has what rights and how this situation can be resolved, is it possible settle in a certain way or, in a certain way, with the help of international organizations, some kind of dialogue, or will everything be okay here? decided precisely by weapons on the field battle vyacheslav likhachev, historian, member of the expert council of the center for civil liberties, is in touch with us. mr. vyacheslav, i congratulate you. good day. you know when some people who, well, have not delved into the history of israel, the ancient history of israel, the history of the palestinians, ask, who are the palestinians? well, it is worth saying that this story has been going on for quite a long time. this is the people that appeared even from the ancient people of philistimlina, which is still in the old testament, these are exactly those philistimlians, who at one time buried under with the ruins of the temple, according to the israeli judge, samson, when he destroyed that temple there, well, this story is quite long, it has somehow passed through centuries, thousands of years into our times, let

's outline a little for our viewers, here are the roots of the confrontation between israel and palestine, yes , well, we don't say hamas specifically, because it's not just hamas fighters, it's the ideology of many palestinian people who live in the territory. gas sector, but where does it start and how did it reach such a tense and still unsustainable situation in our day to summarize, of course, the modern palestinians have almost nothing to do with the philistines mentioned in the old testament, just a name that was used by the jews in biblical times, then was used in the times of the roman empire to denote the name of a province, and by the name of this territory , the arabs, a part of the arab people who live in this territory, received the name palestinians already in the 20th century, and partly as a response to

the creation of the state of israel, and in opposition to the jewish zionist project on the same territory, a palestinian national identity emerged, which in a certain way differs from the general one. and the general arab, in turn, broke up into egyptian national, syrian national and so on , that is, it is about a part of such a larger community, a part of the arab people that lives in the territory of palestine, in the territory of modern israel, and which during the last generations, identifies itself under this name, and has the self-awareness of the palestinian, what to try, well, the roots of the conflict can be understood partly from this background, of course, it is not about the exceptional religious conflict of biblical times, it is

about the self-determination of two peoples on the same territory, it is rather something similar to the struggle of polish and ukrainian nationalists on the territory of volyn. and politics in the middle of the 20th century than on some biblical religious confrontation, but religion began to play a more significant role. role with the decline of pan-arab nationalism, after the second world war and with the emergence of independent arab states in the post-colonial era, they appeared failed by the state of israel, secular secular arab nationalism in a certain way stumbled on israel and lost its appeal to the population as a mobilization... the project and somewhere

starting from the 70s and 80s of the 20th century, this conflict began to acquire more religious such ideological features, because religious islamism, radical islamism began to become more popular, both in the region, in general, and among the palestinians, who considered themselves aggrieved. which are deprived of their own state, their own territory, their own rights, and that's it it was the religious extremist group hamas that led to the seizure of power in the territory of smui from the gas sector in 2007, in contrast to the official such semi-legitimate leadership of the palestinian national authority in the so-called west bank.

jordan, that is, in judea and samaria, where the chairman, president, head of the palestinian national administration mahmoud abbas sits in rome, the palestinian national administration, as an officially recognized representative of the palestinian people, in turn recognized the right of israel in general to existence, the dispute between the palestinian national administration and israel in the borders, in who owns jerusalem and its holy cities, some other details, but in general the palestinian national administration agreed that israel has the right to exist in this region at all, it is only necessary to divide this territory according to the model of the so-called two-states for two peoples, this is the official short and concise name of the project to create an independent palestine, a project that is supported by the international community, and which

corresponds to the decision of the once general... of the un assembly, hamas, unlike the official representation of the palestinian national authority, does not recognize israel's right to exist at all, and the hatred that is nurtured in the territory under the control of hamas, and the local youth and the radical part of society there, it leads to the horrors that the october 7 invasion led to. in the territory of the israelis from the hamas group, they aim to kill as many israelis and jews as possible, in general, because the leadership of hamas called for the killing of jews by to the whole world, and they do not recognize israel's right to exist at all, and here no compromise can be reached, and it seems that everything is going to... that israel

will simply by force, wipe out, clean up the gaza sects from the hamas government, and that the main question will be what to do with this territory and this population next, most likely it is about transferring this territory, as it was until 2007, to the control of the palestinian national authority, but what are the possible guarantees. non-repetition of the scenario of the return to power of an extremist movement, extremist part of the palestinian social movement for liberation, this is a question for both israel and the palestinians, as well as partly for the international community, but i want to understand, well, you already said about this invasion on october 7, but i won’t now, i’m sorry, i i don't know, i didn't read materials specifically about... possible actions during the so-called

doomsday war, which was still going on in 1973, similar atrocities that we saw in some kibbutzim and at the supernova festival , which took place in the south of israel, that's all severed heads are also described, and the video shows when a militant just walks through the kibbutz, and yesterday i re-watched a fresh video, and he just shoots people, someone at home, someone out on the street, this is the same as what we saw in buch, this is the same as we saw in irpin, in izyum, in kherson, and so on , that is, in many cities of ukraine, what the russians did, which, by the way, just like hamas, their leadership does not recognize ukraine's right to exist, their propagandists, of course, are not official there are individuals. well, officials are overwhelmed by propagandists openly they say that we have to destroy ukrainians, the more ukrainians we kill, the better it will be, that is, this is the absolute ideology of russia, the absolute ideology of the so-called ruskomir, this is actually the same ideology of hamas in relation to israel, the more we are, the more they are it is necessary to kill, then it will be good for us to live, that is why we see it, but whether

there were such atrocities before, or whether it happened now, and again it is worth understanding why, if you have a goal to achieve, to conquer the territory, to weaken the armed forces enemy forces to conquer even more territories, you act against the armed forces, you act a little differently, yes, well, these are completely different military and tactical actions, but they acted precisely in order to terrify, scare and show the world a picture of these atrocities, why do you think this happened , how can this be explained, and again, the question logically arises here, whether there was some, maybe, maybe there were some instructors from abroad who encouraged the hamas to act in this way. there are several aspects here, well firstly, regarding the 1973 doomsday war, then israel was fighting with the army, the conventional armies of the states, compare the hamas invasion of israeli territory to the doomsday war, because it also captured the military-political

leadership of israel from nenatsk, and also the first day two was very successful in terms of the actions of the syrian and egyptian armies. then israel tried to repel them, but then it was a conventional war between the armed forces of different countries, first of all its purpose was, of course, military, and there too, of course, the civilian population was affected, but most of the dead then were definitely military, who first met the enemy, who tried to stop him and finally stopped him. in contrast to the hamas raid, when, despite the fact that they started with the capture of military bases, but according to the available data, the actual combatants of the military make up about 10% of all the victims of this terrible attack, then the purpose of this attack was

to kill and taking hostages, it was such a bandit raid, and not an invasion of the conventional army, hamas did not ... aim to liberate by capturing some territories, it did not aim to launch an offensive and liberate there, as they believe alkuts, that is jerusalem, the territory of tel aviv, they had the goal of killing and taking hostages, if we are talking about the influence of a foreign factor on these atrocities and some instructors, then everything is quite normal here. we know that hamas as a fighting structure was formed with significant help and under technical, technical guidance, including instruction from iran and the islamic revolutionary guard corps, this is clear, but it is more about

the technical side of their actions, as it relates to their so-called to speak stylistics, then on them obviously, the actions of the islamic state in the 15th year, in the 15th-16th year, were very strongly influenced , they saw in this a certain example of how it is possible to impress, terrify such a western- type society with which they are dealing in israel, and besides as i said, this is, system by line, the education of hatred, the arrogance of hamas in the gaza sector, it is actually the fact that a large part of the youth there, who are covered by this movement, who are in the ranks of this movement, they consider the goal to be simply murder , there is no rational goal, the creation

of a palestinian state, so that hamas is more than 15 years reigns without any israeli control, if they wanted to create a state, they have... a certain, well, one, if you can compare singapore symbolically, but somehow singapore did not come out of the gas, because their efforts were not aimed at developing the economy, not on the development of education, the system of social protection , health protection, their efforts were aimed at increasing military direction, at strengthening the missile arsenal, at the construction of bunkers and fortifications in case of a land invasion of the israel defense forces and to foster this spirit of hatred for all jews, which is not limited to the territory of israel, and it is very telling that the official head of the political wing of hamas, khalet mashal, who

, by the way, is not in gaza, but sits in qatar, called for the killing of jews by to the whole world and to the worldwide pogrom, i quote him verbatim, that is, literally, this murder, as a certain religious goal of this religious-radical movement, ah, has become... such an end in itself, it is not a means to achieve the goal, the liberation of the palestinian territory and the creation of a palestinian state, it is the goal, and dying by killing is just as much a goal in itself as it is the goal of these terrorists, because they believe that, or they are brought up to believe that dying in battle, and these acts of terrorism. .. they believe that a combat operation means for a person to go to heaven, and that is exactly what they are going for, and

they do not have a longer-term perspective, they do not really think that these methods are rationally justified, no matter how cruel they are, but they have some rational, their goal is the very killing and the destruction of the jewish people and. you know, it reminds me of this ideology of the bolsheviks, this is their well-known song, that we will go for the power of the soviet and as one we will die in the struggle for it, for which no one particularly understood, but in the name of all the bourgeois we are fanning the world fire, this was the ideology of the bolsheviks , which, well, you don't understand why you should go to finland, seize lithuania, latvia, estonia, invade ukraine, poland, but it was, well , they tried to foment more revolution there in germany, it didn't work, they went to spain, later. .. afghanistan, and so on, there is vietnam, korea, well, that is, there were soviet, soviet troops everywhere, plus i am not talking about the countries of africa, america, cuba, but

this is in the fight for eta, well, it was such an irrational hatred to everything around that is not like you, here we see, you and i have come to, well, thanks to you, of course, not me, you have come to such a conclusion, well, we can conclude that this is a completely irrational war, which has no some, well, putin, no matter how irrational he is in his hatred of ukraine, because he is losing now more than anything, there is a certain imperial, ideological, economic goal, he has it, well , at least he had it before the beginning of this invasion, now there is probably not much left, but putin with all his inclinations, some practical, practical component of his war against ukraine can be traced somewhere in him. here, as far as i understand, there is no practical component, because the people who cut the pipes that were allocated to them for water supply by european partners and made rockets out of them, well, obviously they have no purpose to develop, as they said economically. therefore, we have very little time left, literally a few minutes, i would like to ask, in your opinion, what can be the solution to this issue now, today joe

biden is supposed to be in israel, by the way, and this is another visit by the high , there is already burbok and this one, no, urslav fonden and blinkin, well, now the president of the united states has arrived, will a solution to this issue be found, or do you think that they will still try to put an end to this horror, which is contained in the hamas organization on southern israel. of course, this will not put an end to the palestinian-israeli conflict in general, but an attempt to put an end to the history of hamas is certainly being observed by us now, unlike previous conflicts and clashes with hamas, now israel will not stop, no international community, no biden will not stop israel in destroyed, removed by hamas from the leadership of the sector, as i said, the biggest question is what will happen next,

how will the leadership of the gaza sector be settled after the removal of hamas from power, and of course, the price of this, how many more civilians will be killed in the gas, how many hostages who are currently being held in the gas will die, how many more israelis will die in this armed but after the horror of october 7, israeli society inside, it simply will not accept other answers to the question of what to do with hamas, in addition to destroying it as an organization, at least destroying it as a de facto government in the gas sector, forever this threat in this form, well destroy, stop, it will not solve the issue as a whole, the state of palestine will not emerge on the political

map, but it will bring the creation of a palestinian state closer, because for the past 15 years no more talks with the palestinian national authority about realistic steps towards the creation of a state made any sense, because the palestinian national authority did not control this territory, which theoretically belongs to its jurisdiction , that the palestinian nation was divided, in a way, this idea of ​​two states for two peoples was already realized within the palestinian people, the people in gaza got the hama government. and his islamic state, the people of judea and samaria, on the west bank of the jordan river, got mahmoud abbas and a certain autonomy, at least after the removal of hamas from the paada in qazi, a certain stability in the region, it will come, it will come, but again, the question of the price of this option becomes

very acute, as for a long time, other arab countries will observe... the humanitarian catastrophe that we are all witnessing in gaza now, through this pipe the water to gaza went from that israel, which they, the hamas, wanted to destroy and which has now almost stopped the water supply, electricity supply to gas, what will be the price, will another proxy force of iran, hezbollah, intervene in the north, or will iran intervene directly, came from the islamic republic of iran, threatening that in the event of a ground operation, they would be forced to intervene, and the efforts of the united states states, among other things, they are aimed at preventing such a development of events that could lead to a significant regional

conflict, as well as international efforts, including. united states, they aim to help others of the arab countries that can act as mediators, the same qatar that houses the leadership, the political leadership of hamas, and that previously also sponsored the hamas movement in the qazi, in order to help release the israeli hostages that were taken by the terrorists, and in a way you ... the scale, well, to reduce the scale of israel's military operation, currently israel is not negotiating with terrorists, but of course there are all these diplomatic efforts, as well as pros for israel, as well as cons, and significant efforts that are now international the cooperative is trying to make around

the situation, aimed at de-escalation, again the issue. is it possible to remove hamas from power in prague without large-scale fighting and establishing control. thank you very much mr. vyacheslav, thank you for joining, thank you for your professional, cool comments. and vyacheslav likhachev was with us, a historian, a member of the expert council of the center for civil liberties. we will now take a short break, then another guest will join us, the guest will join and we will look at this from a slightly different angle the problem itself. stay with us, the worldview continues, stay with espresso. every day that. hours, every minute we receive a large amount of information. the most anticipated event of the year, what is actually happening at the front, what are the losses of personnel and equipment on the battlefield, how is our success evaluated by the international community, and what is moscow lying about. from the flow of news coming from everywhere, we single out the most important ones. the tweet closely monitors whether there will be