[000:00:00;00] moved, the most dangerous development is that half of the voters, well, people who can possibly vote for the republicans , want to end aid to ukraine, and are taking more and more pro-russian positions, this is not a huge amount of the population, yes, there is 25% of the population, yes , still 75% support, but this is a part of the voters and those members of the republican party that they choose , they very strongly influence the entire republican party, yes, they are trying to seize power there, their leader trump, he will probably be the candidate of the republicans for election, it means that we have such a strange situation, where 25% of the population can solve the issue of ukraine, despite the fact that 75% still support it, which means, of course, a very, very dangerous period, and of course, russia

is very much waiting for trump's victory in november a dangerous period, what is it connected with, is it an internal situation, or is it something that ukraine, as such, could swim towards? this is about america, this is about america and the future of america, and this is a part of society that does not want america to leave nato, for america to leave europe, and for america to leave the world in principle, this tradition has always been in america, america barely entered the second world war with great difficulty, only after japan's attack on america, it's always, it's a long, long time. in general, on the drum about ukraine and about russia? well, for my part, for example, i see, well, there, and apparently in ukraine , they react to it like this, you know, very actively, it’s when musk expresses something, there his posts are endless, then there you have to give a part of ukraine, then something else , or some articles appear in different, even very similar ones respected publications, where they also begin to think about how to freeze the conflict, what

to give for it. it's generally some kind of mainstream, as it is perceived not from our bubble, but as it is perceived, well, if you look, well, in the background, well, that's just how you can look, as a person who lives in the united states, how he looks at all this, this , how much it is really , well, so bright, something, well, expertly engaged, these are expert articles for other experts, and this is very important in the washington party, this is very, very important. and it's very stormy discussion of how to continue waging war and how to further support ukraine, in society, no one reads it, no one knows about it, people don’t read it, well, the mask, the mask reads, well, the mask is another phenomenon, no, very little people on twitter, and twitter basically ended as an important project, it was always only a project for journalists and others and activists, twitter was the law of moscow, it became completely irrelevant as a platform, but not very relevant as a platform, if it had been before played

a big role he knows how to be a businessman, and a very successful one, the richest man in the country, in america, the cult of business, yes, for better or for worse, and of course, musk has a colossus, but i wouldn’t say that he plays any- that is an especially important, decisive role in public debates, he simply represents such a point of view in america , where you must always be against everything, and this is a very fashionable position, such contrarianism. it is widely represented by other people besides mask, but i would not overreact to the words even billionaire, to what extent is it internal, when these articles are published, to what extent are these articles some kind of natural process , is it the opinion of journalists or certain analysts, or can we talk about some certain, well, absolute, well, influence

of russia? uhu, that is, where, how to distinguish, or whether it is necessary to distinguish at all, it is very , very important to understand, we now know moscow, he was in direct contact with the kremlin all the time, and he repeats the kremlin’s theses, for the most part, we now know about it, now we tell a lot of biography about him, he is just on the phone with cream, his business interests are connected with russia, he really wants to launch programs related to space programs with russia, and apparently they are very, very easy to manipulate him, as many such famous and rich people, not very smart in politics, their very it is easy to overplay, and of course, this has a huge influence, and i don’t know if he plays any decisive role, but as i say, he represents such a block of opinion, which is always against the norm, yes, if the norm is against ukraine, he will be for ukraine, if the norm will be for ukraine, he will be against ukraine, well, that's how he plays, that

's how many people play. such a role, but again, everything is very clear in sociology, yes, different studies are repeated, 75% of people support ukraine, for america to play an active role in europe, for america to be in nato, they want america to be able will calm the chaos, support in america is 4%, which means that there is no support at all, and there it is all clear, yes, the problem is completely different, for example, in the fact that the main message that gives american leadership always consisted in the key phrase, we will support ukraine as long as it will be necessary, this was the main phrase entered. americans hate this phrase. ukrainians too? yes, yes, americans love a clear mission, plan, goal. think about american successes, historical ones, and their favorite phrase is "mission accomplish". and when something is

also a wagtail, they stretch, it is not clear where and what and where, it is an american snake. so, let's not dwell on it too much mask and so on, let's think about the way we are and the huge, well.... the majority in american society supports ukraine, what is the best way to communicate with them? they don't like this phrase and i like the inaccuracy of the idea that there is no plan, yes, they are ready to wait , not that there should be a victory tomorrow, but they don't want to know how we are, where we are going and how we are going, well, i wish in general, for the word victory to start sounding, we do not support something incomprehensible, but the word victory does not sound, they do not believe in our victory, why? i don't know, i think that these are very instinctively, very very cautious people who lead america, they are not visionaries, they are always a step ahead, putin will make a step forward, they are a step forward, well, in principle, you follow them, probably the allies

have more money , than in russia, and in the end, russia will lose, probably, they have some kind of vision, but they don't like it, especially thinking about big goals and so on, that's their instincts, that's how they are. i understand, it doesn't work like that even on american society, they love cheerful, big goals actions and heroism, and this, well, this is the generation of politicians . propaganda, well, it is in principle , well, somehow not... so in the west, in the sense that russian propagandists were not perceived absolutely clearly, but now, ukraine is already doing a lot of the right thing, for example,

the americans are afraid, what about that , as musk said, yes, if there will be an attack on the black sea fleet, there will be a nuclear war, the ukrainians have shown genius, here we have smashed it with our genius drones... the fleet is nothing, and something is changing. the ukrainians are already doing everything right, it seems to me, in the sense that they are conducting military operations, operations within russia, which all the time show america that they should not be afraid of them, yes, these are two-way operations, yes, or three-way operations, he says to his society, hold on, we have a plan, yes, we have a plan for an asymmetric war against this enemy, very inspiring, it is very important, it affects russia, which is even starting ... to understand that they have not calculated everything, and of course it affects the west very much, there are more such operations for me, and it would be very interesting for me to see if there were any cyber operations against russia from the ukrainians, if, i don't know, they cut down a couple of factories

where rockets are made, what kind of reaction would russia have, because it's understandable, this is the next step - an invitation to heaven, somewhere, well, it's understandable, that this is the next big one, so big, and such a moment in this war. in this plans are a very new war, yes, drones are one new thing in this war, and the cyber aspect, this is the future of wars, everyone is definitely afraid to start it, maybe someone should start it, lately i see a lot of articles from various publications, british, german , american, where one and the same picture is endless, no matter what is written in the title, the illustration must be some cemetery in ukraine, some wounded fighters. and that's all, well, i , you know, i have such a mixed feeling, i understand that this may be some kind of empathy, but do articles like this help at all ukraine, oh, they help, they don’t help, sympathy is very important, very important, again, in

sociology, yes, i don’t want to tell such anecdotal things, because really now there are many interesting studies, it is very important for americans to motivate stories about children about children, the fact that children are stolen is very motivating, right here... even the trumpists, as trump says, no, this needs to be stopped, everything is about genocide, and so on and so on, which means, of course, that the main concern of american society is values, yes they are not very understand why it is important for the international theory of law and all these phrases about the international, legal, civil society, this is all completely incomprehensible to ordinary people, but the fact that children are protected is very important, it is very, very, very important, because on the one hand, it is very important, it is about values, it is about the need to protect children, victims, and so on, it is extremely important, on the other hand , of course, especially the americans, it is very important for them, well, support for ukraine. correlates with belief in

the ukrainian victory, and of course, very important talk about victories too, yes, that some kind of balance is needed, ah, yes, it is very important, it is very important that there should be a concept of victory, ukraine, ukraine has a lot of victories, not only in the military sphere, for example, in crimea with the black sea fleet, but in the field of infrastructure and so on, every day there is some kind of victory, but it is not always fully told, that is, what do you think? the media, the world media, they are now more like faltering, they show ukraine more as a victim, or after all they show it as a winner, listen, well, journalists are going for something novoe, yes, when there were victories for kiev, when there was the liberation of kharkiv and kherson regions, of course they didn’t write about that, now they write about something else, that’s how, that is, you want to say there will be victories, they will write, well then the way to that yes and

it is possible and possible to very strongly overemphasize some thing that is less than you than the other, it is not , we do it all the time reflects the reality that this is very old the problem is that it doesn't start with this war , but it's interesting, look, russian propaganda talks a lot about how western equipment is on fire, another leopard or bradley or something like that. it is important for them to tell their opinion to the population, because the population is really afraid, but now there was the last study of levvada, where the first is the fear of shelling from russia, the second is the supply of western equipment to ukraine, only the third is the fear of a counteroffensive by ukraine, i.e. the three main fears of the russian population, there more than 60% are afraid of all this, this study of levada was in september, the end of september, and i... all these news about the fact that

foreign equipment provided to ukraine is on fire somewhere, it is broken there, it is the russians were beaten up again, the russians, how do western societies perceive all these news, and in general, do they perceive it as interesting, what is happening with the vlyapnoi technique, yes, look, it is interesting, for two reasons, it is just a part of society, who is very interested in this, yes, who watches youtube channels about tanks. yes, which are themselves daundyat apy somewhere there they find out about i don’t know about the drone attack, there are just people who love it very much, of course, people really want it, they still really sympathize with ukraine, they really want to feel that they are part of the victory too, yes , but it seems to me, you just know that the news must be new so that people follow them, yes, it is not , well, the news is has to be new, yes, by definition, yes, well, i told it once, it’s the second time , the third, because of this

, it seems to me that, for example, we need to show new forms all the time victories, that's it, i know that it's difficult, it 's not easy, well, we live in a world where information is extremely important, and where a military operation has more information. well, how do you generally assess this whole influx of articles about the counteroffensive and how much, again, how much does it affect the support of ukraine , all this talk that the counteroffensive is like this, not like that, it went like that, people, i think, people are just losing interest, when an expert starts such a technical breakdown of goals, people don't really follow. but they see that is happening, they are watching, yes, if we talk about about publicly, that is, from event to event

, in fact, yes, yes, something bright happened, they focused on it, i repeat, the focus group in america, again, america is a unique country , they ask us, and the war is still going on, ugh, well, i’m not saying that this is a huge point of view, yes, but it is, yes, but to such a degree that there is no ukraine, well, not that almost, but often it is simply not in the news, then on this ground, and the conversations, again, which are constant, experts come out about the fact that it is necessary to agree on something with russia, as far as these conversations in general are also, well, they are some kind of mainstream, in general, someone believes that there is something with russia. about public opinion, no one thinks about it at all, especially, yes, if we are talking about such an elite conversation, yes, there is a large group of people who lobby for such a position, they are stronger in europe than in america, and trump is talking about it, yes , he says that he will agree with everyone in 5 seconds, because he is a dialmaker, he will agree with everyone and everyone

will be happy, and here he is talking about such a position, but i think that among people, who... make politics, they understand that they are not negotiating with anyone, yes, i think that this illusion has long passed and you know, this conversation is almost continuing, that i don’t know how it is, but the remnants of echoes of old conversations , and now i think that everyone there understands that they do not agree with anyone, but they also do not understand what to do, or at least they do not tell us what they will do, yes, what, yes, he is like that, well in this inaccuracy, well, it is very dangerous, you know, i have such a well, i have such an impression that when the focus is lost a little bit, the understanding of what to do next is lost, there is such a familiar reaction, everyone starts talking about corruption in ukraine, you just know it as a topic to which you can always

return if you don't know what to say, i have this impression, and it seems to me that right now is such a moment, and how much these conversations are. in general, how much they really affect the support of ukraine, how toxic they are, how much the society of western countries pays attention to them, it is extremely important, well, which i read, and they show that even those who support ukraine, when you ask them, why would you lose, or why would you lose or stop supporting ukraine, they answer that the first point is if ukraine will be there by itself commits crimes, the second point, if there is corruption and the money is used for corrupt purposes and it is stolen , you understand that they are giving their money, yes, taxpayers' money, for a very important purpose, they fully understand that this is a very

important purpose, the majority , and 75% believe that it is very important to support ukraine, but if they see how the ukrainian elite steals this money for themselves, and it does not go to the people, then... they will certainly react negatively to it, and of course, russian propaganda, but not only russian propaganda , simply american anti-ukrainian propaganda puts maximum pressure on this, on this topic, this is almost the most dangerous topic for ukraine and because of this it is necessary to approach it very seriously, well, what would you say here, because i see now the repetition of a certain such a comeback, you know 16-17 years, when also at the beginning, in order to normalize russia in general, they started talking about corruption in ukraine, but now the same story, because to a certain extent these conversations, well, they are artificial in nature, well, how will we fight with it, well, how ? well, here i am, well, yes, yes, there are many historians, both russian sources and american sources, if we talk in detail, yes, it is possible, well, let’s start with

a metaphor that we hear all the time, focus groups, why do we, these, there are no open checks, yes, every penny is tracked, everything is very, very high, and a high-quality system, how we monitor money, this is the first thing, yes, well, such small things, where do you need to start, yes, you need to fight at the level of the language, you need to talk about how money is spent on american taxpayers, an important topic, but who should do it? it should be done by the american government, it should be done by the ukrainian government, everything, everything, everything, and who does it then, for each audience, their own approach, but they also need not to fall too far into the conversation

about money, yes, when it comes to support of the security of the world, when it comes to what needs to be done, tyrants who try to take away the freedom of other countries, then , in order to defeat them and to achieve stability, after the victory, it can be a very good investment, yes, in order, in order, and stability is necessary he also says that no matter how much it is, it is impossible to count dollars here and there, yes, that stability will be after that, we will be able to stop it, to what extent does it affect, does it not affect at all, that , for example, this narrative that russia is so great, and it, it will always be great, and

ukraine is not so big, well, it is running out of resources, what we constantly, constantly read, hear, how much is this in general, such a thing, which, which is perceived, well , by some societies of western countries, politicians of western countries, how toxic is this issue, insane, insanely toxic, there is still the idea that russia is huge, there is an illusion, that it is very rich, there is knowledge, that it has nuclear weapons, that it has rich resources, and this is the idea that it is a giant, you need a giant, never you can't beat it, it plays a huge role, and you need it very much we have not done it yet, that is, this myth has not been completed, not to the end, of course, some sobering things, but it goes very deep, it goes on for centuries.

look, and i understand nuclear weapons in themselves, but the issue of nuclear weapons also remains toxic, which in principle affects decision-making very much officially, yes, according to any doctrine , you have a different relationship with a nuclear state than a nuclear state, that is part of doctrinally any country, well, you know, a big part of my job in general is that i watch literally hours of russian tv shows, russian tv to understand what they 're doing to their population, and the latest, and the latest, well, the biggest trend that 's been, literally, it started last week, but it is dragging on now, they are trying for their own, well, it is cyclical for them, they approached it several times, but the last very strong approach is happening right now, they are trying to... it is to normalize the nuclear the war for the russian population, they talk about the fact that a nuclear war can be won, that a nuclear war can be limited, that russia

can, well, at least respond and we will not all die, but only some part will die, and maybe you know this story , when simonyan, margarta simonyan said that we can detonate a bomb there over russia, and after that everything will turn off and we can do something like that, but why over russia, turn off the satellites. it will turn off all satellites, why, that's another question, okay, the question is that they are now are trying to do some kind of nuclear test, which would be very large and would terrify everyone, and since they can do this test only on the territory of russia, it is necessary to normalize it for russian citizens, and a strange thing came out, because after several days of this very active propaganda, a number of such petty politicians, semi-oppositional, even there one member of the state duma from the communists, and one from

united russia, began to tell that something should be done with these propagandists who talk about it, because it is impossible, well they have to face this talk of nuclear weapons, uh, at the forum in valdaya, putin was forced to come out himself and say that he does not support the use of nuclear weapons, now, the changes in russia's nuclear doctrine, it's not him, it's not him, this is a type of propaganda, all of them, and, that is, russian, it is clear that the russians, they, they are afraid of the perception by the russian population, or rather the non-acceptance by the russian population of these ideas about nuclear war, about some limited nuclear strikes, about which they talk endlessly, about tactical nuclear strikes that they talk about endlessly, and in the background of this, i just wonder how possible in this case it would be effective for them to respond publicly, not publicly, but

heard that any attempt to use in any nuclear weapons, they will receive exactly such a nuclear strike, because the population of russia is really afraid of this, maybe it is time to work with this fear, i don’t know, it seems to me that you know more than i do about this, i saw different studies in russia, there where yes, for sure people are very afraid... of nuclear weapons, that theoretically, if we can convince them that their power is leading to this apocalypse, it needs to be, for example, a movement, an anti-nuclear movement in russia, maybe, i don’t know, there is something in it, and somehow such a strange society, we often we apply the logic of democracy, yes, to russia, but everything is different there, yes, it sometimes seems to me that ukraine, as it is, historical, historical understanding of russia, society has developed in such a different way there for the last 30 years that i often , when i talk to

ukrainian political technologists, they hear how they apply democratic logic to russia, yes, well, for now... i don't know what will work there, we can't expect, it seems to me that we can't expect a coup there, well, we have the same situation as with the support of the germans, hitler hitler , nazism, very similar, very similar, very similar, very similar, even in such a situation, what? what do we have to put pressure on in order to at least not allow any real ones, we need kakel after all there is no, we need some kind of goal, yes we need some kind of goal, but here is ours, our goal is to expel them from our territory, well, yes, it means to win in this way, for example, well, look, we are simple targets, yes there, well, to knock down the mobilization,

yes there, maybe i don’t know, reserves in i don’t know, in productions there are important for for and for the production of weapons, well, it is probably necessary to start with such things, well, what we really do not understand, well, how does any propaganda there during the war begin, and how will it cause problems in their military production and the military machine, well the concentration is always on this, yes, how to make soldiers torture, well and so on, well that this is the first, yes, the most simple and the most. and i think that everyone is already engaged in this with different levels of success, and if we are talking about larger social changes, it is always necessary to combine military actions, well , communication, political and so on, it is necessary in one thing, and this is that they must work together at the time wars, and even when i don’t know, ukrainian drones reached moscow, yes, to what extent were we able to spread this

information everywhere and turn it around in such a way that... well, the kremlin’s power looked weak, yes, did we use the moment of the prigorzhensky uprising as much as possible, yes, we use it a little, well, did we use it as much as possible, i don’t know, to such an extent that we were able to really turn the informational part of this action to ours, to ours, to our victory, yes, i just don’t know yes, i do not deal with it, well, this is the next question, yes, to such a degree, physical actions are supported. well, then the most important thing is still our understanding of the relationship, the relationship of information, and i don’t know, public different moods, with a change in the political calculations of the kremlin, yes, that after all, what we are looking for, yes, this is the moment when the people who make the decision in russia decide that this war was a mistake,

we need, well, in the end. the invasion of afghanistan during the soviet era, they just have to accept defeat, exactly, yes, that was a mistake, they need to change, we need to change our political decisions, right? if we are looking for this, at least, i don’t know, it seems that how the soviets left afghanistan or the french left algeria, well, such situations, we still don’t really understand, what do they rely on when they can make such a decision, but at what point did they not understand, oh, we miscalculated, yes, we are wrong about something... and we still don't really understand, i don't really understand i understand, maybe the guru understands, maybe he understands what they are looking at, yes, when they make a decision, it is related to sanctions, it is related to the relationship between the regions in russia, a classic russian problem, yes, the relationship between the regions, it is related to financial indicators, yes there is some report that is brought to the central bank and they say, we

we can't anymore, but i don't know what it is, when we need to push away from it. yes, that's what they are looking at and how they will then influence precisely these points through information , through sanctions, through military actions, well , it is necessary to move away from this, yes, well, a network of actions, i would not separate here cyber actions, military actions, information actions , sanctioning actions, everything must work together to lead to this result, well , we understand that this is very far from the search for democracy in russian society, no, let someone look for them, but this will not lead to victory, uh, in the end, what do you consider to be the biggest communication task of ukraine now, well, first of all in the west, in the western world, because the western world understands us, well, look, i don't think that there are any informational tasks that are not related to real politics, yes,