[000:00:00;00] good evening, we are from ukraine, glory to ukraine, this is the verdict program , my name is serhiy rudenko, i greet everyone and wish everyone good health, today we are talking about what hamas and putin have in common, about the global war in the world, the ban of the russian orthodox church in ukraine, and still in the program today. biden's historic address to the nation, announced by the us president, and what can ukraine expect? israel's iron swords, how will the ground operation in the gaza strip change the course of the war in the middle east? they are pressing to sharpen, a new wave of assaults in the avdiiv direction, why the russians are ready to go to great lengths losses? purification of feesbeshniks in ryasy, the council finally took the first step towards banning

the rp branch. however, what is wrong with the government bill. we will talk about this and other things for the next hour with our guests, a politician, diplomat and former minister of foreign affairs of ukraine, pavlo klimkin, and people's deputy of ukraine, former head of the security service of ukraine, valentyn nalyvaichenko. however, before starting our conversation, i suggest watching a video of how the russians are trying to storm avdiyiv. our fighters defend the city, operators of the third regiment of the sso discovered heavy machinery of the occupiers moving in the direction of avdiyivka, the defenders managed to destroy four armored personnel carriers, two tanks, several dozen enemy manpower,

let's see how it was. friends, for those who are currently watching us on youtube, please subscribe to our youtube channel, like this video, and also take part in our survey, today we ask you about this, under what

conditions. possible peace between ukraine and russia. options for answers: return to the borders of 1991, denazification and deputization of russia, payment of reparations to ukraine, and peace is impossible under any conditions. if you have your own version of the answer, please write about it in the comments below this video. we are in touch with a politician, diplomat, minister of foreign affairs of ukraine in 2014-2019 , pav' klimkin. mr. pavle, i congratulate you, glad to see you on our air. congratulations, mr. serhiy, as always, glad to be with you and your audience. greetings to all, friends. thank you. so today biden made a statement and he actually compared hamas and putin and said, that both hamas and putin have a common goal of destroying the neighboring democracy. let's hear what

the president of the united states of america said. hamas and putin present different threats, but what they have in common is that they both want to completely destroy their neighboring democracy. if we don't stop putin's apathy for power and control over ukraine, ukraine alone, putin is already threatening to remind poland that their western lands were a gift from russia. one of his advisers, the former president of the russian federation, called estonia, latvia and lithuania the baltic provinces of russia, and these are our allies in nato mr. pavle, biden said that putin and hamas have common motives, but why did he not say that there are common roots or common customers or common directors of this action? well, there are actually more similarities than what biden mentioned, which is

the very effort to destroy democracy. there are two more, there are actually even more, but two very important ones, the first is that both the russian regime and hamas use terrorist tools and methods, so they are quite different tools, hamas is partly fanatics, uh, who act completely differently, and russia - it is the opposite, uh, the source of state terrorism, but nevertheless, there is also a similarity here, but there is another similarity, biden began to talk in his speech about us, about the fact that the russian regime and putin fundamentally do not recognize our identity and our statehood, well, hamas also does not recognize the statehood of israel, they say, well

, let the jews live there in the territory of palestine, we are not against it, but the statehood should be only arab, and this is the logic, one way or the other, it makes sense strategy, very, very much pressure on... today's palestine, but of course, a separate topic, and in my opinion, biden made a very important thesis , which many may have understood, of course, but not completely, he said that democracies are important to us, we will fight for democracy, as they say, we do not have our own let's throw, and it is the west of the budget... that biden submitted, it covers us , it covers israel, it covers taiwan, that is , biden says that taiwan is also a democracy, so we have to protect it, and of course,

it covers the southern border, but not without this, since a large part of americans believe that that both drugs and crime go exactly, exactly from there, that is, this speech by biden, it is... really uneven, he placed the emphasis, he did not talk about joint punishment, and i agree here, although there are a lot of different versions about hamas, there are there is even a version, it is spread in israel, that the israelis had a hand in that, in the creation of hamas, there it was created by the egyptian muslim brothers, so as to create a certain counterbalance, counterbalance. organizations for the liberation of palestine, but of course russia consistently supported

hamas, of course, pataiki nevertheless supported, we also perfectly understand, although we will not speculate without evidence, that it is not a task for the iranians to plan and implement this operation, or to help in planning the implementation of this operation, and i tend to believe that from everything that i know now, everything that i hear from various sources, that after all, without, without other states and other tricks, 100% did not work here, starting from planning and ending with cyber attacks, but evidence is critically needed here , and if they are found, then they must be used for to be accused... not just of terrorist methods, but actually of some kind of inhumane treatment of people, that will be a completely different stage, let's see what we

get or don't get in the coming weeks. mr. pavle, biden made his address public after the end of his visit to israel, literally on the eve of a four-way meeting with you... where he was supposed to meet with the king of jordan, with the leader of egypt and the head of the palestinian authority, a tragedy occurred, a rocket hit a hospital, where 500 people died people, 500 palestinians, it is clear that in this situation while they were figuring out who hit, how they hit, and how the arab community reacted to it. hit, because, of course, the palestinians blamed the israelis, israel says that it was islamic jihad that launched this rocket and it hit this hospital

in the gaza strip, but here is the quadrilateral meeting that was supposed to be in amman, it should, in principle, consolidate the leadership of the united states of america in the process of de-escalating this situation. in the middle east, and it turned out that both biden and the united states of america fell under this a hot, emotional hand, arabic all over the world. and in some places of the planet they attacked the military, the american ones, and cursed biden and the united states of america there, and again, what happened to this hospital, well, it is already so, so similar, if you start comparing hamas and putin, well, it is very similar to what the russians are doing in ukraine, let's remember what happened in mariupol with the maternity hospital, what happened to the many clinics, polyclinics that are being shelled by

the russians in ukraine, was it accidental the shelling in your opinion, or was it just to spoil biden's visit and prevent him from renewing his leadership in the middle east, i can't say, but first of all, what we're getting now is still there the dead are fewer, i understand that every life is priceless, but now it seems that hundreds of dead are no longer being talked about, secondly, those who are there are the armed forces, they are intelligence, they know more, nevertheless, we are still to the end can't figure out who launched this rocket and how, i'm sure it's us we receive data, it will be impossible to hide them, in the long run, and... in the near

term, well, and the third, and we all saw this , these are all the videos that went around the world, and in particular the muslim world, that spoiled this summit, i don't know, how critical it is for biden, yes, this, this, this, this is a very big problem , it is unpleasant, but nevertheless, communication with arab countries is going on, it is going through such hidden channels and the americans are doing it directly and blinken is actually not there climbs out of the east from the east, but i don't exclude, understanding your question, that someone planned this completely deliberately to knock the americans off the track of the settlement of the situation around gaza, just as i already talked about it, i absolutely do not believe that to plan

a cyber attack of such complexity, to plan this operation, and we we know that there is a system around the perimeter of the mud, one of the best in the world, where there are literally hundreds of thousands of different sensors, cameras, remote-controlled weapons, all that did not work, it leads to different opinions, so again, i will not speculate , but somehow that is happening, suggests that someone wants to raise, raise the stakes, and in such an inhuman way, we already mentioned that, uh, biden requested more than 100 billion dollars for ukraine and israel, and taiwan, that is, 106, to be precise, and congress should consider this issue in the national security council. and defense have already reacted to biden's appeal, and oleksiy danilov

, secretary of the national security council, is sure that aid to ukraine will not stop, and he is positive about the intention to combine aid to ukraine, israel and taiwan, let's listen to what he said danilov. now we are talking about the struggle of democracy with the autocratic world, which recently decided that it should seize a huge part of the countries of the world, that is, in order to establish autocratic regimes there, that is. that's how mr. biden's speech is interpreted and that's why i'm more than sure that not only the united states, all our partners without exception will continue to provide us with assistance, and the combination of us in this system, for us, i think it's a big plus, in no the method does not blur the situation, on the contrary, we understand that there is unity in this unity there will be an additional force, because we cannot and nobody in the world can blur, as you say, the ukrainian issue, because it is

impossible to do it. both biden and danilov talk about the struggle between the democratic and the autocratic world, although the americans, if you believe the insiders who appear in the american press, are considering the possibility of war with china and russia in the perspective of 2027-2035, well , at least, i don't know to what extent this can be believed, but it is obvious that the middle east and ukraine can only be the first such points where the autocratic world will light fires well, taiwan, because judging by how the united states of america is trying to help taiwan now. who and what do you think can be done in this period , the commission that was created at the congress, which studied the possibility of a major war, a global war, that is, what

are the most critical points in the world now , geographically, which are the most critical? well, actually, we all know them, it's us, it's the middle east. uh, russia, of course, can raise the stakes, and provoke, or directly attack, as well others, biden also talked about it, taiwan, taiwan is about, chinese or non-chinese identity, it's about understanding xi, where he 's taking china, it's about chips for the whole world, because the most advanced chips are made in taiwan, if you look to taiwan's gdp, it is larger than that of any of the european countries, and

high technologies are the key to this, but i do not rule out that there will be other hot spots, even the region. i absolutely do not rule out that something will happen in africa, i absolutely do not rule out that the near east will explode, i do not rule out that something can happen between india and kashmir, that is , in fact, there are many different very, very difficult areas where the situation can develop unpredictably, and why is it so important. this speech by biden and the packaging of this aid, biden says that we have to win all wars, for democracy and against autocracy, if somewhere we make ourselves weak and give,

some, some concession, then in fact it will affect everything, everything otherwise, i would not at all...' and not engage in risk analysis, where and what may arise, now such time, this is a reset of the world system, that we need to be ready for anything, well, how are we actually, ready for anything, our mentality during this war, and before and during a full-scale invasion , has fundamentally changed, the mentality of the west has not changed yet, but there is an unequivocal, an unequivocal suff, there is an unequivocal evolution, and this speech and the budget request, they, they are important in that sense, just like

biden's address to the nation, biden didn't sign it, didn't make some very simple video, he just addressed to the nation to show that now in fact, exactly that moment, and then, maybe, maybe later, but you see that russia wants to raise the stakes here in ukraine as well, and you showed avdiivka, by the way, i do not rule out that the events around avdiivka are connected with that putin really , really hates to move us away from donetsk, and then come. to donetsk there as part of his election campaign and say, you see what i did, so no, i absolutely do not rule it out, since this is putin's logic, and to be re-elected for him,

despite the fact that they still interest will be calculated nevertheless, it is important, he started crazy activity there, he drives. talks to people, speaks, that is, he has his own logic here, just as the meeting was critically important for him, i believe that for putin it is generally the meeting of the year, and just as you are showing the footage, orban jumped into this wagon , meetings with putin, but the xi meeting was the central story, well xi called him a good old friend during the meeting in beijing and said that he was inviting putin to the new world order, well at least cnn yes, it conveyed what putin said already after the meeting with xi jinping, about what. er, mih 31 daggers will be patrolling the black sea, meaning er, russian

federation aircraft will be in neutral, in neutral skies over the black sea, in neutral waters, that if russia's war is lost, as they say in the united states of america, then let the president of the united states of america takes atakams and comes to russia on a pancake, well, about that. in ukraine, they are thinking about the negotiation process, as he said, this is a transformation in the right direction, i praise him for that, but this is not enough, it is indicative that what was happening in beijing, it was in contrast to what biden was doing in the middle east, well, that is, somehow it turned out that way, that on the same days, or on the same days at the same time it all happened, how did you shoot putin , how did he behave, that is, as a subordinate of xi jinping, as a person, as a junior partner of xi, does he have more

ambitions, or does he pretend that he has less ambitions for for zijin pinen to introduce friendship with him, that's how putin was in china, it is clear that this is his first visit for the border after the issuance of the warrant, the international criminal court and more than in the post-soviet space, he did not fly anywhere, but... still, and i believe that in fact, not only what biden did in the middle east, but its application successful, of course, the attacks have primarily an emotional dimension and a military one, since we can now push back the activities of the russian aviation a lot, and it is time and space control, that is, many things, but there is also

a geopolitical dimension, i believe that it is not just that all right, on the eve of the meeting between putin and si is very good, everything is focused in time. as for putin, i don't see any fear in him, but i don't see any fundamental confidence, this meeting was critically important for him, important in the sense that he is offering his services, or how to say, well, he is offering a joint strategy regarding the exhaustion of the west and such an anti-western coalition, after all, he does not want to fight with the west, everyone wants that, any decisions that are made, they are decisions... in which china's opinion is taken into account, that is, in menality,

the philosophy of international relations is chinese , she is, if you like, pan-nationalist, only in the chinese sense, and putin, on the contrary, he wants to win precisely in the war, as he believes, against the united states, well, here he began, as for me, somewhat nervously, to joke with an invitation to pancakes in i don’t know why he thinks that pancakes are the best story, well, let's leave that to him, but he spoke after the press conference according to such a text prepared in advance, it was not an improvisation, he answered questions, he answered quite freely, but he read the text, very very structured, he

talked about some kind of bilateral program until the 30th year, but the biggest project is still suspended, this is the second stage of the gas pipeline of the power of siberia, and that gas needs to go somewhere, russia, but i understand that the chinese are twisting not only their hands, but also something else russia in the context of discounts and optimal conditions, and i think that here they will be 100% successful, but the main logic of the meeting is confrontation with the west and possible cooperation in the nuclear sphere, in other spheres, and here i think putin is needed, from ways to give up on putin, sitai people the leaders still can't and don't want to, so it's unlikely that putin got what he wanted, but there were some for himself, i don't know mlyntsi or what he wanted to get there, he probably got it anyway, that is, below his expectations, but

it was obvious , that he... at least the meeting of rhee is not fundamentally disappointing, so here it is more of such an essential and emotional draw, there was a meeting between putin and orban in beijing, this is the first meeting of putin in the last year or a year and a half, with the leader of the country, a member of the european union, and the first to of a large-scale war by a nato member, and there orban called putin's war against ukraine a military operation, minister kuleba says that after what happened between orban and putin, orban must wash his hands. let's hear what kuleba said. i hope he

at least washed and sanitized his hands after the handshake. mr. pavle, is disinfection and hand washing enough for ukrainians now to negotiate with orban? well , this is a problem not only with orbán, don't forget, there is also rdean, who meets with putin, and this is also a nato country, although it is not a western country, the problem with orban is that he is the leader of a western country, and he does not just meet, he plays such a role, his own among strangers, a stranger among his own, such a feeling, that he wants to be, something like a mediator, that is, i am not in the middle of the west, i am not in the middle of the east, i am generally some kind of

hungarian, and i can talk between everyone. but once again we have to give credit to orbán, he squeezes money out of the european union as a payment for consent for our, including the movement on on the way to the eu and bargains banally, cynically and pragmatically, that is, in his system of coordinates, in his system of values, to sit down with putin , well, okay, pay attention, president of serbia, vucic also met with putin, well, somewhere there, he got caught, as they say in in the corridor, well , they probably also shook hands, but the leader of the country, which has always been considered traditionally pro-russian and friendly to russia, did not sit down with putin. and orbán became, and

in this way, i believe that orbán, not simply, how to say it, tarnished, but showed himself that he does not share a common western position and common western values , as we share them, and it will be very , very difficult to talk to him in the long run, hungary is part of nato and the european union, and we need to talk to hungary, we cannot avoid it, of course we can react to it with emotions. but hungary is able to block our path to the eu and nato, and i think that this was also the point, somehow one -on-one, so reacting to orbán's meetings with putin is simply a certain picture, and

the picture is certainly disgusting for us , i wouldn't became, i would look here... deeper and we need to find leverage on orbán together with our friends, but i'm sure we will find it. thank you, mr. pavle, for the conversation, it was pavlo klimkin, politician, diplomat, former minister of foreign affairs of ukraine. friends, we are working live on tv channel as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms, for those who are currently watching us on youtube live, please like this video and also take part in our vote, today we are asking for the following under what conditions peace is possible between ukraine and russia, return to the borders of 1991, denazification and deputization of russia, payment of reparations to ukraine, under no conditions, peace is impossible. if you have another opinion, please write in the comments below this video. next, we are in touch with journalist iryna sampan. she is now in israel,

the collection of the bodies of people killed by hamas in the town of berry, which is