[000:00:00;00] was with us, the representative of gurmo, we are staying at espresso, yehor chicherinda was with you, thank you very much for the conversation, be with our channel, glory to ukraine, this is the verdict program, my name is serhiy rudenko, i congratulate everyone and wish everyone good health , today we are talking about what... maz and putin have in common, about the global war in the world, the ban of the russian orthodox church in ukraine, and today in the program. biden's historic address to the nation, announced by the us president, and what can ukraine expect? israel's iron swords as a ground operation in the gaza strip will change the course of the war in the middle east? press to sharpen. a new wave of assaults in the avdiyiv direction. why are the russians ready

to leave? for great losses. cleansing from facebook fans in ryasy. the rada has finally taken the first step towards banning the roc branch. however, what is wrong with the government bill? we will talk about this and other things for the next hour with our guests, a politician, diplomat and former minister of foreign affairs of ukraine, pavlo klimkin, and people's deputy of ukraine, former head of the security service of ukraine, valentyn nalyvaichenko. however, before to start our conversation, i suggest watching a video of how the russians are trying to storm avdiivka, our fighters are defending the city. operators of the third regiment of the sso discovered heavy equipment of the occupiers, which was moving in the direction of avdiivka. the defenders managed to destroy four armored personnel carriers, two tanks, and several dozens of

enemy personnel. let's see how it was. friends, for those who are currently watching us on youtube, please subscribe to our youtube

channel. like this video and also take part in our survey, today we ask you about the following conditions, peace between ukraine and russia is possible, options for answers: return to the borders of 1991, de-nezification and deputization of russia, payment of reparations to ukraine, and peace is not possible under any conditions. if you have your own version of the answer, please write about it in the comments below this video. we are in touch with pavlo klinkin, politician, diplomat, minister of foreign affairs of ukraine in 2014-2019. mr. pavle, i congratulate you, glad to see you on our air. congratulations, mr. serhiy, as always, glad to be with you and your audience, greetings to all, friends. thank you. so, today biden made a statement, and he actually compared hamas and putin and said

that. and hamas and putin share a common goal of destroying their neighboring democracy. let's hear what the president of the united states of america said. hamas and putin present different threats, but what they have in common is that they both want to completely destroy their neighboring democracy. if we don't stop putin's apathy for power and control over ukraine, which extends only to ukraine, putin will already threaten to remind poland that their western lands were a gift from russia. one of his advisers, a former president. russian federation called estonia, latvia and lithuania the baltic provinces of russia, and these are our nato allies. mr. pavle, biden said that putin and hamas have common motives, but why did he not say that there are common roots or common customers or common directors of this

action, well, in fact, it is more similar. points, in addition to what biden mentioned, this very effort to destroy democracy, there are two more, there are actually even more, but... two very important ones, the first is that both the russian regime and hamas use terrorist tools and methods, yes , these are quite different tools, hamas is partly fanatics, uh, who act in a completely different way, and russia is the opposite, a source of state terrorism, but nevertheless, there are also similarities, but there is another similarity, biden began to say in his speeches about us, about the fact that the russian regime and putin fundamentally do not recognize our identity and our statehood

, well, hamas does not recognize the statehood of israel either, they say, well, let the jews live there in the territory of palestine, we are not against it, but statehood should be arabic only. and that's it this logic, either yes, or yes , it is in the sense of strategy, very, very pressing on today 's palestine, but that is of course a separate topic, and in my opinion, uh, biden made a very important point, uh, that many, perhaps, understood, of course, but not completely, he said that democracies are important for us. we will fight for democracy, as they say, we are not abandoning ours, and it is the budget solution that biden submitted , it covers us, it covers israel, it covers

taiwan, that is, biden says that taiwan is also a democracy, so we have it protect, well, of course, it covers the southern border, but not without it, because a large part of americans believe that both drugs and crime go exactly, exactly from there, that is, this speech by biden, it is really uneven, he placed accents, he did not talk about common roots, and i agree here, although there are many different versions about hamas, there is even a version, it is spread in israel, that the israelis had a hand in the creation of hamas, the egyptian muslim brothers lived and created there, so as to create a certain counterbalance, a counterbalance liberation organizations

palestine, but certainly russia has consistently supported hamas, of course secretly and nevertheless supported, we also perfectly understand, although we will not speculate without evidence, that for the iranians to plan... and implement this operation, or help in planning the implementation of this operation , this is not an easy task, and i tend to believe, from everything i know now, everything i hear from various sources, that nevertheless, without other states and other problems, here 100% did not work, starting from planning and ending with cyberattacks, well, the evidence here is... critical are needed, and if they are found, then they should be used to accuse , not just of terrorist methods, but actually of some inhumane treatment

of people, that will be a completely different stage, let's see what we get or don't get in the coming weeks . mr. pavle, biden made his address public already after... the end of his visit to israel, literally on the eve of the quadrilateral meeting in amman, where he was supposed to meet with the king of jordan, with the leader of egypt and the head of the palestinian authority, a tragedy occurred, a rocket hit the hospital, where 500 people died, 500 palestinians, it is clear that in this situation, while they were sorting out... who hit, how did they hit and how did the arab community react to this hit, because of course the palestinians blamed the israelis, israel

says that it was islamic jihad that launched this missile and it hit this hospital in the gaza strip, but this quadrilateral meeting that was supposed to be in amman, it should, in principle , have cemented the leadership of the united states of america in the process of de-escalating this situation on in the middle east, and it turned out that both biden and the united states of america fell under this hot emotional arab hand all over the world, and in some places of the planet they attacked the american military and cursed biden and the united states of america there, and again, in that , what happened to this hospital, well, it is already so similar, if you have already started to compare hamas and putin, well, it is already very similar to what the russians are doing in ukraine, let's remember what happened in mariupol with the maternity

hospital, what, what happened with many clinics, clinics that are shelling the russians in ukraine, or whether it was an accidental shelling in your opinion, or whether everything was just to spoil biden's visit and not allow him to renew his leadership on the near stairs, i can't say that, but - firstly, the fact that we are now... after all, there are fewer dead there, i understand that every life is priceless, but now it seems that we are not talking about hundreds of dead people, secondly, those who are there are the armed forces, it is intelligence, they know more, however, we still cannot fully understand who and how launched this rocket, i am sure.

that we receive this data, it will be impossible to hide it, in the future, and in the near future, well, and thirdly, and we all saw this, these are all the videos that went around the world, and in particular the muslim world, that spoiled this summit, i don't know, how critical is it to biden, yeah, it's, it's, it's a very big issue, it's frustrating. but nevertheless, communication with arab countries is going on, it is going both through such hidden channels and directly, the americans are doing it, and blinken is actually there does not come out, from the close-up, from the close-up of the east, but i do not rule out, understanding your question, that someone planned this absolutely deliberately to knock the americans out of the situation around gaza,

just as i already said about it, i absolutely do not believe that to plan a cyberattack of such complexity, to plan this operation, and we know that a system is located around the perimeter of the mud, one of the best in the world, where there are literally hundreds of thousands of different sensors, cameras, remote-controlled weapons, all that did not work, it leads on different opinion, so i will not speculate again, but somehow everything that is happening suggests that someone wants to raise, raise the stakes, and in such an inhuman way, we already mentioned that, biden requested more than 100 billion dollars for

ukraine and israel, well, taiwan, i.e. 106, to be more precise, and congress should consider this issue in the national security and defense council have already reacted to biden's appeal, and oleksiy danilov, secretary of the national security service, is sure that aid to ukraine will not stop, but to the intention of combine aid to ukraine, israel and taiwan is treated positively, let's listen to what danilov said. now we are talking about the struggle of democracy with the autocratic world, which is the last. sometimes decided that he should seize a huge part of the countries of the world, in order to establish autocratic regimes there , this is how mr. biden's speech is interpreted, and therefore i am more than sure that not only the united states, all our partners without exception will continue to provide help us, and the combination of us in this system, for us i believe that this is a big plus, in any case method does not blur the situation, on the contrary, we understand that there will be additional strength in the union, in this union, because we cannot and no one in the world can blur, as you say,

the ukrainian issue, because it is impossible to do it. both biden and danilov talk about the struggle between the democratic and the autocratic world, although the americans, if you believe the insiders who appear in the american press, are considering the possibility of war with china and russia in the perspective of 2027 2035, well , at least, i don't know how far this is you can believe, but it is obvious that the middle east and ukraine can only be the first, such points where the autocratic world will light fires, and taiwan, because judging by how the united states of america is trying to help taiwan now, who and what according to you can do, that is, in this period,

defined uh, the commission that was created by the congress, which studied the possibility of a major war, a global war, that is , what... now the most critical points in the world are geographical, which are the most critical? well , actually we all know them, this is the miy, this is the middle east, and of course russia can raise the stakes and to provoke or directly attack others as well, biden is also talking about taiwan, taiwan is about china. or chinese identity, it's about understanding xi, where it's taking china, it's about chips for the whole world, because the most advanced chips are made in taiwan, if you look at the gdp of taiwan, it's bigger than

any of the european countries, and high technologies are the key to this, but i do not rule out that there will be other hot spots, even regions, i absolutely do not rule out that something will happen in africa, i i absolutely do not rule out that the entire middle east will explode, i do not rule out that something can happen between india and kashmir, that is , in fact, many different very , very difficult areas where the situation can develop unpredictably. and why is this speech by biden and the packaging of this aid so important, biden says that we have to win all wars, for democracy and against autocracy,

if somewhere we make ourselves weak and give, some, some... concession, then in fact it is a reflection on everything, on everything else, i would not count at all, and would not engage in analysis risks, where and what may arise, now is such a time, this is a reboot of the world system, that we need to be ready for everything, well, how are we actually ready for everything, our mentality during this war, and before... and during a full-scale invasion has fundamentally changed. the mentality of the west has not changed yet, but there is an unequivocal, unequivocal suff, there is an unequivocal evolution, and the father's speech and the budget request, they, they

are important in that sense, just like biden's address to the nation, biden did not sign it, made some very simple video, he specifically addressed the nation to show that now is actually the exact moment, and then maybe, maybe later, but you see that russia wants to raise the stakes here in ukraine as well, and you showed avdiivka, by the way, i do not rule out that the events around avdiivka are connected with the fact that putin is very, very keen to push us away from donetsk, and then come to donetsk there as part of his election campaign and say, you see, i , which i did, so no, i'm

not completely ruling it out because it's logic putin, and to be re-elected for him, i don’t mind... the fact that they will still count the percentages , it is still important, he has started crazy activity there, he travels, talks to people, speaks, that is, he has his own logic here, as well how meeting c was critically important for him, i believe that for putin it is generally the meeting of the year, and you are just showing the footage, and orbán jumped into this wagon, meetings with putin, but the meeting was all, it was... the central story . well, si called him a good old friend, during the meeting in beijing and said that putin invites to a new world order. at least this is how cnn reported what putin said after the meeting with xi jinping, that

mih 31 daggers will patrol the black sea, that is , the planes of the russian federation will be in neutral, in the neutral sky over the black sea, in neutral waters, what if the russian war lost, as they say in the united states of america, then... the president of the united states of america takes atakams and comes to russia on pancakes. well, about what is in ukraine thinking about the negotiation process, as he said, it is a transformation in the right direction, i commend it, but it is not enough. well, it is indicative that what was happening in beijing was in contrast to what biden was doing in the middle east, well, that is, somehow it turned out that way, that on the same days or on the same days hours it all happened, how, how did you watch putin, how

he behaved, that is, as a subordinate of xi jinping, as a person, as a junior partner of xi, does he have more ambitions, or does he pretend that in he has less ambitions for zijin pin to introduce friendship with him, that's how putin was in china, it is clear that this is his first visit abroad after the award of the order. international criminal court and more than in the post-soviet space, he did not fly anywhere, but still? and i believe that in fact not only what biden did in the middle east, but its successful application to attacks , of course, has primarily an emotional dimension and a military one, since we can now push back the activities of the russian aviation

by a lot, and that is where the reaction time and control by space, that is, many things, but there is also a geopolitical dimension, i believe that it is not just that everything is like that, on the eve of the meeting between putin and xi, and everything is very well focused in time, as far as putin is concerned, i do not see it... ' some fear, but i don't see any fundamental confidence, this meeting was critically important for him, important in the sense that he offers his services, or how to say it better, well offers a joint strategy to exhaust the west and such an anti-western coalition, sish he doesn't want to fight

with the west, everyone wants that, any decisions that are made, they are decisions in which china's opinion is taken into account, that is, the mentality, the philosophy of international relations is chinese, it is, if you like, pan-national, only in the chinese sense, and putin, on the contrary, he wants to win precisely in the war, as he thinks, against the united states , well, here he started, as for me, somewhat nervously, to joke with an invitation to pancakes, i don't know why he thinks that pancakes are the best story, well, let's leave it at that him, but he spoke after the press conference in advance to such a prepared text, it was not an improvisation, he answered the questions , he answered quite...' freely, but the text read, very, very structured, he talked about

some kind of bilateral program until the 30th year, but still the biggest project is hanging, this is the second stage of the gas station of the power of siberia, and that gas needs to go somewhere, russia, but i understand that the chinese are twisting not only russia's arms, but also something else in russia, in the context of discounts and optimal conditions, and i think that they will be here 100% successful, but the main logic meetings are a confrontation with the west, and cooperation is possible in the nuclear sphere and in other spheres, and here i think that xia needs putin, from the path of giving up putin, xia the chinese leaders cannot and do not want to, so it is unlikely.

putin achieved what he wanted, but some for himself, i don't know, millions or what he wanted to get there. he probably got it, that is, below his expectations, but it was clear that he is, at least, not fundamentally disappointed, meeting xi, so it is rather something so substantial and emotional a draw, there was a meeting between putin and orban in beijing, this is putin's first meeting since the last. a year or a half with the leader of a country that is a member of the european union and the first full-scale war of a nato member, and there orban called putin's war against ukraine a military operation, minister kuleba says that after what happened between orban and putin, orban must have wash your hands,

let's hear what kuleba said. i hope he at least washed and disinfected his hands after shaking hands with putin. mr. pavle, ot disinfection and hand washing, is it enough for ukrainians now to negotiate with orban? well, this is a problem not only with orban. don't forget, there's dadean who meets. it is also a nato country, although it is not a western country, the problem with orbán is that he is the leader of a western country, and he does not just meet, he plays such a role, his own among strangers, a stranger among his own, there is a feeling that he wants to be something like

a mediator, that is, i am not in the middle of the event, i am not in the middle. in general, i'm kind of like that i can speak hungarian, but again, we have to give credit to orbán, he squeezes money out of the european union as a payment for consent, for ours, including movement on the way to the eu, and trades banally, cynically and pragmatically, that is, in his system. coordinates in his system of values ​​to sit down with putin, well, okay, pay attention, the president of serbia, uchich also met with putin, well, somewhere there, he caught up, as they say in the corridor, well, they probably also shook hands with each other, but to sit down with uchich

putin, the leader of a country that has always been considered traditionally pro-russian and friendly to russia, became, and orban became, and in this way, i believe that orban, not simply, how to say it, tarnished, but showed himself that he does not share a common western position and common western values, as they we share, and it will be very, very difficult to talk to him in the future, hungary is part of nato and the european union , and we need to talk to hungary, we will not avoid it, we can of course react to it emotionally, but hungary is able to block our way to eu and to nato, and i think that about it was also a kind of one-on-one conversation, so reacting to orban's meetings with putin

is just like a certain picture. moreover, the picture is certainly disgusting for us, i would not, i would look deeper here, and we need to find levers of influence on orbán, together with our friends, but i am sure that we will find them, thank you, mr. pavle, for the conversation, this was pavlo klimkin, politician, diplomat, former minister of foreign affairs of ukraine, friends, we work live on the tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms, for those who... watch us live on youtube, like this video, and also take part in our vote, today we ask about the following: under what conditions peace between ukraine and russia is possible, return to the borders of 1991, de- nazification and the deputization of russia, the payment of reparations to ukraine, under no conditions, peace is impossible. if you have another opinion, please write in the comments below this video. next