[000:00:00;00] as a result, this radicalization will lead to an even greater confrontation between them and the state of israel and will deprive, will deprive the palestinian national movement of any legitimacy in the eyes of both israelis and the world community, because what happened in the 70s and 80s will return years of the last century and that helped the state of israel to marginalize the palestinian hands, until the agreement, when a palestinian is a terrorist, these were synonyms, and yasser arafat, and mahmoud abbas and other palestinian leaders were just thugs. it must be said clearly, these were bandits were able to get over their crimes, to stop being toys in the hands of the arab rulers, because they killed and killed and killed and got rich from killing, and now abbas is getting richer not killing, and somehow it created opportunities, and that's how it will look in in the future, when we will again see an entire nation ready to commit the murder of its national ideology, well, i think

, vitaliy, yes absolutely, very well, i don’t know if the question is politically correct or not politically correct, but really, it’s not politically correct, i said, it’s not politically correct, i’m such a beech i don't ask questions as a rule, this is a problem, this is a problem for the palestinians, because there is an expression that the palestinians never lose an opportunity, to lose an opportunity, and right now we see that it is possible for the first time in all this time the west bank and the political leadership, although it very undermined, very much under serious criticism, and really radical sentiments are growing in the west bank, but nevertheless, the palestinian leadership of the west bank is trying to keep the situation under control, because they are already, i think, trained in this negative

by experience, which in principle... shows that every such action, it rejects the palestinian, the palestinian people from the realization of the idea of ​​a palestinian state, therefore , based on the fact that hamas, hamas definitely does not represent the entire palestinian people, yes, a part of the palestinians is inspired that hamas challenged israel, it is true, but at the same time, the vast majority realizes that the powers are not equal and that as a result of the defeat they will be pushed back many decades, therefore the role of the united states of america and other arab countries is precisely here , which pressure is now being exerted on mahmoud abbas, and pressure on the representatives of the palestinian authority in the autonomy and political groups

affiliated with in order to keep these people from violence, in order to continue this track on the creation of a palestinian state, more moreover, i think that, paradoxically, this situation may eventually lead to the creation of a palestinian state, because this situation forces all parties to make decisions that they would not have made yesterday, and obviously if the american the administration will continue the course on the rapprochement of saudi arabia and israel, then the result of this will undoubtedly be the creation of a palestinian state, and then the issue of hamas will be solved automatically, it will lose the support it currently has in the territory. how long can this conflict last?

listen, it has been going on for 100 years. it's an escalation, i mean, it's an escalation, well, no, well, it's an escalation, in different ways, i 'm even here, it's difficult for me to assess, but the plans of israel, because israel is also now under serious pressure from the united states of america , it is clear that within society, israeli society, people are determined... for a war, that is, they are ready and want to enter the gas and destroy hamas, this is a basic trend that we are currently observing, but there is a fear of a second front, there is a fear serious consequences in the humanitarian sphere, accusations of violation of the laws of war and

many other things, i.e. there are enough problems, how will they roll out, to be honest, i would not like to be in the place of benny hans and bibinego, thank you, thank you mr. igor, igor director close to the center. eastern studies, we will break literally for a few minutes, but you do not switch, we will still talk with lesya in the next part of our program , stay with us, the child caught the virus, mother vera has faith in dekasan, inhaled dekasan enters the lungs where the virus dekasan works, mother vira is happy, dekasan is an inhalation antidote to viruses and bacteria, and dekasan is indicated for inhalation antiseptic. pain can become an obstacle. walk up the stairs, not with my knees. for pain in the knees, try dolgit cream. long-lasting cream relieves pain, reduces swelling and improves

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cream with comfrey of dr. tais, a proven remedy, vitaly portnikov is with you and we talk about the main events of this week. vitaly portnikov and top experts about the most vivid events of the last seven days. our guest will be the general of the ground forces, former national security adviser to the president of the united states, donald trump, herbert mcmaster. current topics, pressing questions, authoritative comments and forecasts in the information marathon project with vitaly portnikov. every sunday at 20:10 at espresso. we continue the saturday political club, we congratulate once again those who are already with us and those who have just joined, actually mr. vitaly, here we have finished with igor simovolosy about the fact that

this conflict is a hundred years old, but i think that the devil will break his head there, and a person who wants to understand, in short, what it is and why they are fighting like this and why it is taking so long, explain. i don't see anything complicated in this conflict, you just need to start not in 100 years, but in 1000, during the time when the last jewish rebellion against the roman empire was defeated. defeat and the last of the roman emperors who fought this rebellion, there were three of them in all, the emperor vespesianus, the emperor titus, the emperor hadrian, who the emperor was the son of the emperor, the emperor trajan, the emperor hadrian, these are the three main emperors, those when he fought with judea, he was not the emperor of rome, and now, by the way, there are many.

he laughed bitterly at us when he saw that the italians projected the flag of israel on the arch of titus, which was erected in honor of the destruction of the jerusalem temple and the subjugation of the jewish kingdom, this is like a revenge that was taken after 1000 years, just practically, so when the last rebellion failed, and emperor hadrian even renamed the jews in palestine, he was elinophilus and he... invented a greek word, not a roman one, but a greek one, because he was very fond of all things greek and invented what the greeks called this territory so that there would not even be a memory of what was here statehood, which was the judean kingdom and so on, and in this way the jews lost this state a thousand years ago, at the end of the millennium, it has not passed away, and since then the idea of ​​returning statehood has always existed among the jews, no matter what nations passed through

this territory, muslims. crusaders, who anything, but it was always an absolutely historical fact that the real flight was a state, a state, because there was never a real state there, there were various colonies, mandated territories, there were christian kingdoms, there were some caliphates, but they were on part of the territory , they never had such effective statehood in the entire territory of ancient israel, judea and samaria, at the time when the religious. changed into political among all the peoples of the world there, the spring of peoples took place, the jews were among these peoples, they had already lived there for a thousand years in russia, no one continued to live in the holy land, there were not many of them, and the idea of ​​a jewish state in this territory appeared, the idea of ​​a jewish state in this territory was based on the fact that people should return there, buy there land, as a rule not very favorable, the arabs called these first jews people. because they bought the product horror, it is even hard

to imagine everything, if you read the first books about what happened there, then the main topic in these books will be malaria, people were just dying dirty with malaria, because if a person lives in malarial swamps, then as a rule he does not survive, and so and so and so was this israeli settlement movement, which was very tragic, but somehow a certain number of people settled during the ottoman empire, then she continued to live there and appeared during the british mandate, well-known events began in europe, the 1930s, the nazis, the holocaust, this also increased the number of people who wanted to settle there, because it became clear that it was dangerous to live among european peoples , it's me it seems that any person who understands in common sense does not need to explain when you are burned by your people on the territory of the whole of europe, that is, it was once in the middle ages, but it was also in the 20th century, and this 20th century seemed much more humanistic

, the times of the spanish and portuguese kings there, in any case, the idea of ​​creating a jewish state arose, but the leaders of this jewish community in mandatory palestine went to palestine with all their ideas and plans, they certainly revived this process, because the people who were next to them, especially arab. agency, they began to look at them, and well, if you offer this, then we need this, why, are we worse than you, we also need, too, and here we need a state, and you can live among us, ugh, that is, in fact, this development of the jewish national consciousness led to the development of the arab one, not even from the point of view that we need an independent state here, but that we need an arab state in the middle east

as such. there with a big account jordan created on a part of mandated palestine, this is also an obvious point, and the people, the arabs , who lived on the west bank of the jordan river, did not understand why they should not be part of jordan, but create some kind there, agree with some jewish state, in the end, you know, after the second world war , the united nations decided on the partition of palestine, it was not the first time that such an idea arose, it arose even before the second world war, but it was not implemented, and after the jewish national... movement accepted this idea, arab national movement this idea did not accept, and from the point of view of the arab national movement, the arab state should exist in the entire territory. mandated palestine, yes, and there should be no jews there, if they want, they can stay there as a national minority, well, i mean, in 1948, this was the idea, in principle, people who came from europe, let them are going to europe, what are they doing here among us, this is not their land, they have never been here at all, this is a different version of history, so the war

of 1948 began, and the war of 1948 ended the fact that israel defended its territory there, which was allocated to it by the organization. nations annexed some other pieces of territory there, but what we call the gas sector and what we call the west bank of the jordan river were occupied by egypt and jordan, respectively, and no arab state was created there, until the year 67, even there was no question of this, because both egypt and jordan were not going to give up control of this territory, from the west bank of the jordan river even deputies were elected to the jordanian parliament, jordan gave out their passports there, egypt also gave out their passports in the gas sector, and they didn't want to know anything about the palestinians, and the palestinians didn't want to know anything about themselves, huh, but they also organized raids from the territory of the west bank of the jordan river and the gas sector to the territory of israel, so that this territory would also be cleared of this jewish population, and these two pieces of land became a bridgehead

for the destruction of israel. in 1967, as you know, there was another war, already the third, if we count the war of 1956. and after that israel took control and occupied the territory of the gas sector and the western bank of the erden river. what are the arab countries doing? at this moment, they are creating an organization for the liberation of palestine and say that the palestinians live here, this is a separate nation, they have the right to statehood. what they did not say for 20 years, they made the main political idea, and this idea turned out to be much more. successful than the idea of ​​occupying the territory by egypt and jordan. jordan forgot about the members of the parliament, egypt forgot that it claimed this territory, it's simple we defend the rights of the palestinian arabs.

the time of terrorism began, also known, constant acts of terrorism, er, destruction of people, eventually quite serious problems began when, by and large , the palestinian national movement began to lose its credibility, especially after the israeli-egyptian peace agreement was signed , we were talking about the 50th anniversary of the doomsday war, as a result of which completely different processes began, the soviet union began to withdraw from the region, egypt began to negotiate with israel, egypt was no longer interested in the gas sector was a center of terrorist activity, and then the arab leaders of palestine decided that they should negotiate with... israel, the voslo agreements appeared, which allegedly created the conditions for the creation of two states, arab and jewish. israel has agreed to the creation of a palestinian autonomy on the west bank in the gas sector, that there will be its own independent government and that this

independent government will conduct negotiations with israel on coexistence, for starters , it recognizes israel's right to exist. because it is necessary to understand that these arab states, which did not sign a peace agreement with israel, they do not recognize its right to exist, and in the program of hamas, the first point is the destruction of the jewish state, and in the program of the fatah party , which is headed by mahmoud abaz, the leader of the palestinian authority, it is not surprising either, uh, they do not refuse from this idea, no one, but nevertheless, the very organization of the expulsion of palestine became the subject of such a negotiation process, it came to the point that, in principle. agreed that there is a road map for the creation of a palestinian state with its capital in the eastern jerusalem, this was agreed upon by the then prime minister of israel, general khutbarak, with yasser arafat, and here the idea, which arafat advocated, prevailed in the palestinian national movement, that if they

agreed to all this, then one more blow would be enough for them to disappear altogether , ugh, or they made bigger concessions, i don’t know what they had in their heads there, the palestinian uprising began , all these agreements were failed, the right-wing forces in israel strengthened, the right-wing ones say, there is no need for a palestinian state, we are you said that you will not agree with them, they say, they are there for the centrists and the left, well, here is the result, and in the palestinian movement radical movements, such as hamas, have strengthened, which began to say, well, you sign agreements with us and what, but then they do not give us anything, and as a result, the situation was radicalized from two sides. and the parliamentary elections held in the palestinian authority were won by the hamas movement. the hamas movement is different from all other political parties. palestinian arabs because it is a religious movement. ugh. radically religious, similar to isis or islamic

the state, but at the same time he exploits national, such as nationalist, ideas, which is very rare, there are practically no arab parties that work with these two currents together, there are either radical religious organizations or national organizations, but there is some islamic jihad or islamic state and there is a party of arab-socialist renaissance that ruled iraq , now...syria, but these are secular parties, here, all together, that is why there is so much support for the palestinian street, especially since most of the people are young, they are not there they differ, what makes one different from the other, there is 60% of the population of gaza, it is younger than 24 years, uh, or 70, there are only 2% of people older than 60 in gaza, then you just need to understand what state the population is in, well and but the gas sector was actually captured by hamas after these parliamentary elections, because the fatah party, which currently governs the west bank, did not allow hamas to form

a national government, fearing that if it formed a national government, it would simply destroy all possibilities the palestinians to create their own state, and so these territories split in half, relatively speaking, in the gaza sector, hamas, the fatah party, and they , all this time trying to create palestine , they are not succeeding, they decided in israel, and this was also an obvious mistake, of the current prime minister, as you know, he has been the prime minister for a long time, that he can somehow deal with this conflict and that it is even profitable, in one, in one part, one, uh, group leads in another, another, somehow which state, you first create some government that will manage all parts of your future state. and then we'll talk about the state, well, that led to what it led to, let's not describe

the political turmoil in israel for a long time now, the negotiations among the palestinian factions, it's long, i don't think our viewers are interested, but here we go what is important in this situation is what i have been saying all the time to my palestinian colleagues and acquaintances for the last 30 years, and this is roughly what i have been telling my armenian colleagues and acquaintances for the whole 30 years about karabakh, ugh, why did you decide that time is playing against you, you have such positions , they are strong now, well, if we talk about karabakh, you control certain areas of azerbaijan there, they control kreba, come to an agreement with them, because there may come a time when you will not won't be able to agree on anything, because they will prepare to prepare not in order to negotiate with you, if you are not 30 years old, the conditions are such that there will be no one to negotiate with.

but karabakh where, where are the armenians of karabakh, which one the road map, the road map can be between armenia and azerbaijan, and karabakh, there is no armenian in karabakh anymore, these people, as i tell you about the people who were in karabakh, about these 1000, and once 150, once 2000 people , who were in karabakh, where they lost all their chances, all of them. although they had, here too, the same situation, there was a moment when all the sympathies of the world were on the side of the palestine liberation organization, well, it gave up terrorism, they started peaceful talks with the israelis, the then prime minister israelucha krabin extended his hand to yasser arafat, who was the direct organizer of the series of crimes.

terrorist acts against israeli civilians, isha krabin, his foreign minister shimon peres and yasser arafat, became nobel laureates, yasser arafat , by the way, is a nobel peace prize laureate, this is not a joke, imagine now that someone from hamas will be given a nobel prize, in such a situation, when you speak from the rostrum of the united nations organization, not just as the leader of the palestinian arabs there, as a nobel laureate, you have every chance it is advantageous to agree, because if you do not agree , you may lose these chances, but igor said that the voloos themselves, that in principle , objective opportunities for the creation of a palestinian state may arise now, may arise, or something completely different may arise, may simply a situation will arise when there will be even fewer people who will want to live in these territories, especially since you understand what the system is, it is also necessary to understand what the system of life of palestinian arabs in general is in the territories of arab countries in the gaza sector and on west bank of the river

order. there are people who live there. always in various arab countries and in the gaza strip and on the west bank of the ardan river. there are people who left their places of residence in 1948, at the call of their arab leaders, who said you must leave to give the arab armies the opportunity to exterminate the jews. ugh, leave your people at home, we're going to kill the jews, because it was a big invasion, a lot of army, and then you come, come back, well, just don't bother the army, because if... there's civilians, how are we going to kill them , conditionally saying, and a huge number of people obeyed, obeyed, many did not obey, these are israeli arabs, they live there, they are citizens of israel, they occupy a million of them, as you can see, nothing happens to them, but many obeyed, what happened to them arab governments did, they settled them in refugee camps, like in cages, and these people have been living in refugee camps since 1948, everywhere, in

lebanon, in syria. in jordan, in all the arab countries where they were able to enter, they do not add citizenship either to them or to their children, nor their grandchildren, that is, you were born in this refugee camp, and you are just like a wild animal, and you have to live on the money that the un, the refugee agency from this territory gives you, and how can your fate change , well, let's destroy israel, let's return home to tel aviv without jews, relatively speaking, and the palestinian administration will agree that you will return home, it doesn't matter, the main thing is, it's interesting that there is another thing, there is the gas sector, there is also people who have left the sovereign territory since 1948 israel, where do you think they live there, in the refugee camp, there are people who just live in

the gas sector, because they come from the gas sector, and there is a person who is from the neighboring one. the village, relatively speaking, behind this security fence in 1948 , she escaped from this village to the gas sector, she lives in a refugee camp, and she does not have the right to any housing of her own, no, she can, she does not have any rights , she has the right to be a refugee, and so she can leave somewhere, if she has a chance, to america, to england, to the european union, she will not be there a refugee, but she will not receive money from the un. but there this person can be an equal refugee like all other refugees, get refugee status , then get the right of residence, then citizenship, and there are a lot of such palestinians, but if you live among arabs, they keep you just as a tool for bargaining with israel and they will never

make you such an equal person, with the lebanese, with the syrians, and even with the residents of the west bank of the jordan river and the gaza strip, there are huge camps. refugees from palestine autonomy, from palestinian from mandatory palestine to lebanon, these are whole cities, but these people do not have lebanese citizenship, they do not pay lebanese taxes, they do not participate in parliamentary and local elections, they simply receive money from the united nations, they cannot work like the citizens of lebanon, and in the gas sector as well, and in the west bank of the jordan river as well, these people... who among their arab compatriots do not consider as people, and this is when the president of egypt says that he is not wants to let them in, this, if translated from arabic political language to human, political language, means that he does not want to create new groups of refugees, because he cannot let them in and say, my dear arab brothers, who are the same as people , who live in the neighboring cities of egypt, come

, we will give, well, not citizenship, but the right to... stay, to all that, and you will live in egypt until you can return to your homes. he says, i don't want to create a refugee camp on the territory of egypt, because i have enough of my own problems, why do i still have this refugee camp, it is a special story when the israelis talk to the arabs about solving this problem, they always tell them, we have a refugee camp in 1948, we have to agree that these refugees return to the territory of israel. the israelis say, but they expelled all