[000:00:00;00] in coordination with our allies and partners, which would ensure that russia's aggressive policy is curbed, but your question offers a further answer, what to do with the transformation of russia, well, the answer i will give is that it may not be very popular, but i do not think , that those, someone from outside can somehow... influence the internal transformations in russia and not only in russia, in any other countries. and i think that one of the years, i hope, which has studied washington based on our unsuccessful foreign policy in in iraq and afghanistan, in syria, in libya, it is

that such things are extremely difficult. however, it is not that efforts to contain russian aggression are impossible, that it will not have an impact on the situation in russia itself, i studied russian history, and after that, i also remember the crimean war, which did not end well for the russians and for king, and also the japanese war. the same as after the first world war, which was also another defeat of the russian army, after all these wars there were positive processes in russia, liberalization, decentralization, and the same this is exactly what happened after the end of the cold war, so i think that there will be at least some short-term changes for the

better in domestic politics. russia after they lose this war, and if we keep our position as it is, now the kremlin will lose, and there will be changes in russia that could, in theory, not only affect an aggressive foreign policy, but also affect b that russia would like to... live in peace with its neighbors, i'm not saying that it will necessarily happen, but the possibility exists, sandra, you wanted to add something, we did not say it clearly enough in the document, but i want to say that if russia wins, or even has some,

there will be some success in this war, then positive... changes within russian society will be even less likely, so defeating putin is the first step towards changing the situation in russia itself for the better. i see that there are many willing, now prime minister groysman, please give me the floor. good afternoon, i did not intend to speak but i was inspired by the speeches and discussion that is happening, first of all, and in the form of a question, i have no questions, i have words of gratitude to arseniy yatsenyuk, who has been dealing with security issues for not the first year, and what is happening today on the site

of the security forum is extremely important , i took part in the meeting or in holding the forum many times, and we always talked about security, if we look at the dynamics, when we talked, and what we are doing now, the issue of security is not just a topic that is still there for years 10 ago was and predicted, yes, what can be, and this has already become our reality with you, and that is why we are holding this forum today in the bomb shelter, so first of all, arsenia, i thank you, and frankly, because this topic is not the only one the year is in your field of vision, i know how much effort you put into it. i want to thank the atlantic council for what you do for ukraine, and many things that we managed to do in ukraine are precisely with your help and support. i would like to say something about something else today, 2008, when the summit was taking place, at which the fateful decision was to be taken, was one way or another

failed. and six years have passed, and six years after this summit , a terrible event took place, when they always said that it was necessary not to annoy russia, but to restrain it, russia went on the attack, annexed. crimea is part of donbas and actually started the war. and then, probably, the inadequate and not proportionate response of the world caused the russians to go further in the 22nd year. while we talked about what and shouted about that there is a real threat, and at the same time, the emergence of such an axis of evil, which today is trying to destroy the democratic world to which we all belong, that is, to kill us, was happening in parallel. to kill what we live by, this axis is called evil, it is very clear, russia , iran, khazbala, hamas, north korea, china, i am not afraid of this word, these are all those who today

advocate for the world to forget what democracy, and there is an undeniable leadership of our partners today, but it should be noted that this very first, important, big battle is taking place today on territory of ukraine. and it is reflected at the cost of the lives of every ukrainian soldier. if someone can say that the events that are happening in israel and the events that are happening in ukraine, they have nothing in common? no, it's not, because the roots, the finances, the weapons, it's all very connected, and that's why we're faced with an unprecedented challenge today, there's no longer any question that we have to deter, without a doubt, the nato alliance is an alliance, a deterrence, a security alliance . not an attack, and because of what has happened recently, after the continuation of the full-scale russia's war against ukraine, finland and sweden said: "stop, we are joining nato, we want

defense, we want effective defense." the same thing, if it had happened to ukraine in the eighth year, we cannot talk about the past, but we can predict that for sure russia would not have attacked ukraine, and this axis of evil would not be the same today, tivna and capable of destruction, this is not happened, and the fundamental work that was done by the atlantic council to form a two-part plan, in my opinion, can be defined today not only as a bold agenda, and this is a plan for the real victory of ukraine and the democratic world in this unjust, unprovoked war, this is a plan for victory that consists of two parts, the first is the part of ukraine's accession. in nato and the examples you mentioned in the 55th year, germany, it is possible and it must be done, and the second is weapons, imagine what is happening in the country today, ukraine needs f16, all of ukraine is talking about f -16,

we first talk about 6-8 months, then a political decision is made, and then 6-8 months to a year, we are studying, we have a huge loss of technological time against this monster. and it seems to me, in my opinion, that the summit, nato , which will take place in washington, in the united states, it should be exactly as clean, unambiguous , clear as president biden's speech and address to the nations, everything is clear, everything is clear and everything is logical, we have a chance in 2024 to win this war and stop russia, without... what our heroes, angels, wars do, they do incredible things, and combining with this plan over of two parts, i think we can get very close to this victory very quickly

, there are risks and we need to talk about them, risks that hold back the democratic world in making decisions, one of them is the presence of a large arsenal of nuclear weapons in russia, but it is already a global question that needs to be answered. and we have to win this war, and i am sure that the plan that you are presenting today , which you are working on together with arseniy yatsenyuk, will be a good basis, a good foundation for the right decisions, therefore, the year 24 should be the year of victory through political leadership, through real politics, which, unfortunately, we have forgotten over the past decades. thank you and i wish us all success and victory. thank you thank you. ambassador aleksandrovych would like to ask a question. thank you, danilo. i am oleksandr

oleksandrovych, ambassador of the ministry of crown affairs of ukraine. it seems that general milley said in 22 that we should weaken russia so that it is more. was never able to attack her neighbors. my question to you is what does this mean in practical terms? and secondly, related to this question, as you can see. ukraine's victory in ukraine, is it enough for us to restore our sovereignty and territorial integrity, or do we have to take one additional step towards the demilitarization and denuclearization of russia in addition to ukraine's membership in nato, as a guarantee of preventing future russian aggression. as for the first thing that the general meant, i ask myself what he meant when he said that, so i

can't explain it for him, but i think, to give a short answer, he meant i mean, we have to give ukraine what is necessary for ukraine to do what you talked about, that is , first of all, to return all its territories to the borders of 1991, and this military victory will weaken, significantly weaken of russia specialists already estimate that the ukrainian army destroyed about 50 percent of russia's military power during this war, this is already approaching the defeat of russia in a military sense, so again, returning to our document, if we provide ukraine with

what it needs, quantitatively , qualitatively and on time. then your military has already proven that they can defeat, defeat the russians on your territory, i think that's what general milik meant when he said what you said, i won't be responsible for the mines either, but as for the aid, as for the victory of ukraine, it is not only a question of restoring its territories and expelling all russian troops from nato territory, but also making sure that ukraine will have the opportunity to repel any russian aggression in the future and strike a devastating blow against russia, if it will happen, and for this ukraine needs assistance, that is why

ukraine's membership in nato is the ultimate guarantee for ukraine to ensure its victory, i am very pleased to hear so many positive comments about our proposals, and we really hope that some of this will still be taken into account and will form the basis of decisions in the washington summit. we still have 10 minutes to go, but we still have three questions, and i'll give them a chance. please introduce yourself, i am, hypothetically, october 24, ukraine, ukraine was accepted into nato, and the fifth article applies to the territory that

ukraine controls what, if the russians hit, say, a grain warehouse in odesa, and what will happen after that, let's say, compared to, say, an attack on a residential building in vinnytsia, we don't think that today day, will realistically represent... it is as your question dictates that next year ukraine will already become a member of alets, we are talking about a more distant perspective, it is about defining the steps that will lead to the date when ukraine will become a member of the alliance . and precisely because of the scenario you painted, we do not think that in july next year,

nato will already have. consensus regarding ukraine's membership in nato, but we really believe, as stated in this document , that we can take important steps in this direction, because precisely because russia has not yet been defeated, and therefore, it we cannot restrain it from further aggression. would like to add something to that, ambassador vershbow, i would like to point out one point when the day comes. i would like it to be the 24th year, but ukraine will have it the guarantee of article five, will russia test the reliability of nato, will it fail, how will nato react? nato will respond in

the spirit of article five, an attack on one is an attack on all, and we hope that deterrence works, if not. a member of the alliance will have to take some appropriate action , so the ambassador said that when the day comes, russia will obviously realize that its missile is aimed at a nato member country, we have two more questions, ambassador turyansky, thank you very much, i'm retired ambassador turyansky. i worked for 21 years in the diplomatic service of ukraine, i want to say that i am grateful to the atlantic council for the position and foundation of arseniy yatsenyuk, for starting to discuss the issues of the future

agenda at the washington summit of the 24th year, 10 months before its start, this is very important. because of this discussion, i think that we, at least, the ambassador of ukraine to the united states, the ambassador of ukraine to nato in brussels, we would like to see them online, regarding their position, regarding the future of work at this summit, because for 50 years we have been open for 15 years. these doors are relative of nato membership for ukraine without any results, it is, as you know, like a tail, it turns in one direction, then in another, the honorable arseniy yatsenyuk said that he is sure that ukraine will become

a member of nato at the washington summit in the 24th year , and i would like to say, if not, do you have. at least in your foundation plan b, what can we do, and how do you plan to stimulate the ministry of foreign affairs of ukraine, the government of ukraine, the office of the president to work, because according to information from the internet, 25 countries support ukraine's membership in nato, but we it is necessary to convince the united states, at least france, germany. and we also have hungary in brackets, what can we do in these 10 months, in order to have a positive result regarding ukraine's membership in nato, as you very well and very correctly predicted,

arseniy, my word to you, this is what we think, do everything is possible , but it is in the hands of the administration, the president, the presidents of all states, to develop a consensus, i will say what i believe, i believe that during the washington summit, ukraine should receive an invitation, that will be similar to the start of negotiations on ukraine joining the alliance, that's what i believe. you say you have to have a plan b, and it's not plan b anymore, it's plan c , it's surrender, everybody's watching pretty closely, and the chinese, and the russians, and the global south,

they're watching very closely whether america will show that they're the leader of the free world, will the free world be able to defend itself , does it have enough courage to protect and defend people's lives, to defend justice, it will not be ours, not our failure, not our mistake, but a failure of the entire free world, and it will only be for the benefit of totalitarian regimes, such as putin and all such, bloody regimes. another option, and there may be many plans, and they will all be in favor of totalitarian regimes.

when we talk about ukraine's membership in nato, we should also talk about security in the black sea, because over the past 20 years, nato has formed its own black sea strategy, can we expect... will form its strategy in the black sea, it should be , whether there should be a separate strategy, regardless of ukraine, i want answer start answering, nato recently approved a regional defense plan for its alliance members bordering the black sea, and a critical advantage of ukraine joining nato will be that in this case nato will have control over the black sea, because

the ukrainian coastline, crimea and so on, but this is a plan, it is limited to those countries that are located along the black sea, which are now nato members, that is why it is so important from the strategic point of view of nato to accept ukraine into the alliance. thank you. as we near the end of our discussion, i i want to thank you for your participation and i want to invite each worthy speaker of our panel to say a few words on behalf of the american audience here in kyiv as a whole.

bomb shelters, we know the consequences of aid to ukraine, the same applies to israel, and it is very important to remind you that we, and i mean americans, will get through this difficult period, i saw in the president's speech last night that there is an obvious indicator that we are overcoming all this, that there will be aid packages for ukraine, israel and taiwan, and that the global leadership of the united states will also develop and, as i understand it, putin will be defeated. we need to accelerate the provision of more effective weapons, as soon as possible and in the necessary quantity.

and that will also help to achieve good results of the nato summit and to accept ukraine is such a great way, i agree and i welcome the kyiv security forum and i feel uplifted based on the discussion that we had and as what i described between idealistic and realistic, and we hope that decisions will be made on washington summit, but we obviously have to go further, someone said that 29 nato members are in favor of ukrainian membership, this is a wrong description of the situation, all nato members announced that ukraine will become a member of nato, the question is when and how, and i think that we are dealing with some of these here and ukraine can confirm this and prove that we have reached

a consensus and at least mr. putin is no longer obviously able to intimidate us with his nuclear weapons and we will protect all our interests. the last thing i wanted to say is what president biden was talking about, this moment in there are stories. the turning point that's coming next is going to be very different from what came before, and basically, if that's the case, if we 're at a historical turning point, i think these decisions that we 're talking about are very simple decisions, if this is a strategic turning point, we absolutely need to give ukraine what it needs to win on the battlefield, if this is a strategic turning point, let's secure the future

by preparing and laying out a clear road map for ukraine in nato, which i believe is the only in a way to ensure the future of europe, if this is really a turning point, ivanana, i think that several things are important on which we must come to an agreement, first of all, russia should not be provoked to escalate. we must understand that she will do it again, again and again , i repeat it a thousand times already, that russia understands only language, strength, unity and power, that is what we must, we must rely on, i think we we will all agree that we have a task before us,

to ensure that at the washington summit. there was no repetition of the open door policy. we need to reach a point where our relations with nato can already be considered, at least, at least an invitation to ukraine for accession negotiations. and the third point is what we have to understand again. and the urgency to mobilize us all to continue and strengthen our systemic work at all levels to achieve this goal in the various capitals as well. someone might say that the reason, why, is the atlantic council, but we actually decided to do this together

presentation the reason is very simple. it takes nine months to give birth to a person, and in our case, i think it will take nine months to give birth to a historic decision that must be made in washington, and on and will give ukraine a clear perspective, membership in nato and will give we have the opportunity to start negotiations on accession. since we are here in this parking lot discussing the future prospects of ukraine, then, at this time , thanks to the military and the people of ukraine, we have this opportunity, in kyiv, even here, but

in kyiv, to hold this meeting and discuss it question, i want to make it clear that the american people and their leadership also need us to pay them back for what they are doing for our victory, i want to thank our audience for the great questions, i want to thank everyone, it's a good meeting and a good the beginning of our further work, aimed at what we talked about today. news time on the espresso tv channel, in the studio of iryna koval, greetings to all viewers. boryslavshchyna in kherson region under fire from the occupiers. the russians hit one of the villages of the community with four aerial bombs, as a result of which a 55-year-old man was injured, the wounded man was hospitalized

with a variable explosive injury. the enemy dropped explosives from a strafing drone on boryslav. a woman, she has a contusion. our fighters forced the russians to retreat in the direction of bakhmut, so the enemy is retreating to other lines, said the head of the press service of the 26th artillery brigade, oleg kalashnikov. according to him , the occupiers are attacking on the northern flank in the area of ​​yagidny and bohdanivka, but the southern flank, klishchiivka and andriivka, remains the hottest. they are happening there constant combat clashes. more than 330 ukrainians are waiting to be evacuated from the gaza strip, ukrainian ambassador to israel yevhen korniychuk said. however, he noted, in fact, there are much more ukrainian citizens in this region, about half a thousand. according to korniychuk, the rafah checkpoint on the border with egypt can be opened tomorrow for foreign citizens. the diplomat added that in addition to

the evacuation of ukrainian citizens, the embassy also helps to evacuate them. from the gas strip of citizens