perfect fit, even on the widest leg. the insulation perfectly retains heat and wicks away moisture, and the top is made of waterproof and wear-resistant raincoat fabric and reinforced with eco-suede. alaska style boots can be worn both in wet weather and in very cold weather. high-quality, light and warm alaska style boots will provide comfort in the changeable wet autumn, in the frosty winter and in the unpredictable spring. you will always be warm, comfortable and dry. universal design, basic black color and good value. the price of everything from uah 799 call every week, the saturday political club helps to understand the processes taking place in ukraine and the world. vitaly portnikov, host of espresso and invited experts, based on facts, give their assessment and forecast of the development of events. do you want understand

how our today will affect our tomorrow, watch the saturday politics club, every saturday on espresso. greetings, this is svoboda live on radio svoboda. we have already come to the snake itself. the following shots may shock you. news from the scene, live. drone attacks, kamikaze. political analytics, objectively and meaningfully. there is no political season, exclusive. reports from the hottest points of the front. svoboda live is frank and unbiased. you draw your own conclusions. we are returning to the air, as we announced, we will talk about various things with the former deputy head of the security service of ukraine, the reserve general of the security service of ukraine. viktor yagon. mr.

victor. glory to ukraine. glory, good health. many good reports to the security services of ukraine, they catch spies, collaborators and other freaks, but how they say, from the middle ages we remember the principle, the doctor healed himself. that's why i wanted to start, maybe with more resonant things. i mean these, internal facts, for which there is no answer in society. well, for example, there is no answer about kulinich and kegbist sivkovich, a friend of putin, how in our sbu system such heads of the internal security department as naumov, who is currently serving a term in prison in serbia, appeared in our sbu system, there is no answer, why, bakanov , who did so much, there is still not a single one... suspects and

quietly works for himself as a well-known lawyer from poltava, here i am talking about such cases, why , yes, it is difficult to clean the service itself from such ideological-bakanian personnel, well , let's be honest, they have already been cleaned, that is, these people, they are not in the service, this is this fact, and what is happening now, well, listen, i liked what the former head of... security volentyn lyvashchenko very clearly said , he said that the responsibility for personnel appointments always rests with the head, if it is an appointment within the service, who signs the order on appointment, head of service, or personnel appointments, which take place according to the decree of the president , submissions to these decrees are also signed by the chairman or his deputy, so we really need it to be interesting, very interesting, for a person to come to ugu, for

a person to come to the court, i understand that, in the case of kulinich , i simply said frankly who they are, who recommended them, how the inspection was carried out, on what basis the decision was made, what according to noumuv, what according to khlynnich, what according to others there are characters who are also very interesting, they are less talked about, but they are still there, i want them to say that we, we raise the issue of bakanov, but we forget, for example, the very same sheytanov, who was appointed under hrytsak, that is, there are issues, there are issues that need to be dealt with and dealt with directly, as in the internal the security of the security service, and for sure, and externally, during the investigation or consideration of the case in court. mr. viktor, we

read information almost every day, even 5 minutes ago, that various gunners, correctors are being discovered in all regions of ukraine, they detain some for 15 years, some for how long. but there are also very frequent stories about when people are detained who were not just correcting, although this is also a terrible crime, but they cooperated and profited from the war, in fact, from the mountain of their countrymen, that is, the transcarpathian who made the scheme, supplied raw materials for more than 12 million hryvnias, so equivalent to the russians, and they used these raw materials... to make radar stations for warships, then we can only guess where these ships end up, what losses we have, at the front, what losses we we also have in the economy, because of such people , and is there an already worked-out scheme in the country, how

to reveal these schemes as quickly as possible, this is the 21st century, the internet, you can get information quite quickly, how is our situation with this? well, look, we, we do not live in a vacuum society, when we talk about the fact that in the parts of some daggers or iskanders there are parts made in the united states, in poland, there, i don't know, in other countries, we do we wonder how it is so, well, how can it be, what, countries like us support, no matter what, they still supply parts now, aggressors, that is, there are people for whom money. and moral and ethical factors do not affect their vision of what is happening at all, so uh, you have to work, work, very clearly, it is extremely difficult to detect this scheme, why, because when there is

a supply, for example, which of something, what is produced in ukraine, for example, in germany, it is difficult, difficult to predict that from germany it can go somewhere to some third country, for example from the east. or even to that turkey or i don't know there to kazakhstan, roughly speaking, kyrgyzstan already reports to russia, and if we start to understand , in particular, the transcarpathian case, this is from the fact that people simply understood where, where this, where, where, where this, well, where this raw material can to be used, and they just started to check this scheme and found out that it still ends up in russia through third countries. and from the smear, i apologize for the words of this entrepreneur , that he did not know the final beniversaar, or the buyer, well, these are such, you know, he, he understood that where it can be used, and he has all the responsibility

carry, that is why we need to work with our entrepreneurs, we need to look at where it supplies this or that raw material, understand their dual purpose, and everything goes through the permission, including the relevant commission at the nsdc, so i think that such things are necessary to control very clearly and not to let loose. mr. viktor, when we see how the security service takes a whole agency of kegists and others, saboteurs, who have bookmarked targets there for money for weapons and prepare sabotage and explosions and everything that is wanted in the kyiv region, then pride takes: for such a service security of ukraine and we applaud, and then, when we watch, for example, the hopstop mask show , when the well-equipped security service of ukraine with submachine guns come to kryivka or the fest there and spend weeks there, hunting for the hideout or the republic festival, you scratch your head,

when you look at this game from a smear show, for example, the search of the acting mayor of chernihiv, also with the participation of the security service of the sbu, you cannot understand why the security service of ukraine participates in such layouts, that is, they cannot refuse orders that have absolutely her bad political ambre. and they do not know whether it is a political ambre or not, there is an assignment of the investigators, and they are forced to carry it out. we have not reformed the security service, and we do not have a special service , in accordance with the law we have a special law enforcement body, eh, the security service proposes to leave everything as it is, only change the wording and say that the security service is a special service with law enforcement functions , these law enforcement functions, they rest on the criminal procedural code, if there is a criminal procedural code

code, accordingly, investigators, including other agencies, have assignments, and whether they want to or not, they are forced to carry out those assignments, because they are a law enforcement agency, and they perform functions that are not characteristic of special services, and only then. when we carry out the reform and the special service will be a special service, and will not investigate any economic crimes within the framework of the criminal procedure code , i don’t know, some other crimes, but will actually work through: the law on counterintelligence, the law on national security, and the law on service security of ukraine, without any ties to any other law enforcement agencies, then all the assignments where the alpha special forces are used will be completed, but mr. viktor, you and i have been talking for more than a year about the need for a reform of the sbu itself, legislative reform and the fact that this is included in our package...

is there a chance for us, despite the difficult circumstances, to finally break out of this vicious circle, so that we do not read every day, as if in manual mode, some , the former ment of yanukovych manages the entire power system, by everyone, by the entire power bloc, and that is why tatarov had nothing for it, is not, and possibly will be , we can break out of this circle, it is very difficult, very difficult, because in addition to the pressure of our partners and the demands, where clearly the specified reform of the security service, unfortunately, there is a certain lobby that blocks all those matters , including in the verkhovna rada, unfortunately, we have what we have, because it is very beneficial to have a manual, manual structure that is not accountable to the verkhovna rada. and is controlled directly from the president's office and where, you can give some

instructions, to carry out those instructions for political motivation, unfortunately we have what we have and until this situation changes, we will, we will, we will watch this kind of thing, i want to say that when you watch the news tape that the security services put out , there's about 50% of the stuff that's just amazing, you know. they are the understanding that counter-intelligence, military counter-intelligence, some combat units are really fighting, and there are incomprehensible things when, well, which can be very effectively carried out by other law enforcement structures, the same national the police, babe, i don't know the dbr there, nabu, ugh, of course, mr. viktor, thank you, see you again on our air, viktor. deputy head of the security service of ukraine in 14-15 years , reserve general of the security service of ukraine about such

a difficult double reality in a warring country. we continue the conversation, but let's talk about something else, this is what came to us with a history that we stubbornly did not want to learn, understand, and now we have to, and now we have to catch up with what we did not know, and the good news is that , which is 70%. people who interviewed the foundation democratic initiative named after kuchaev and the kyiv international institute of sociology believe that in the last two months, upa, the ukrainian postan army has established a tradition of resistance to the aggressor, which we nurture and increase to this day. professor of kyiv-mohyla university, scientific director of the democratic initiative foundation named after ilko kuchriev, oleksiy haran. mr. oleksiy, congratulations, glory. glory to the heroes, by the way, also the bander, opiv greeting, it has already

entered our lexicon, people know where it comes from it, the survey showed that people know where this greeting comes from, although i think that our other interlocutor, historian and politician volodymyr vietrovych can argue about the full greeting, from the point of view that they have a monopoly on this greeting, because it seems even in the holnodyariv republic, our defenders from the first muscovites, greeted each other, like this, confirm, deny, mr. volodymyr , we congratulate you, glory to ukraine, glory to the heroes , i confirm a little, i refute a little, the fact is that indeed completeness is a complete formula for heroes, glory glory to the heroes of ukraine, that's it people of bandera, we really congratulate you on the 41st year, the glory of ukraine is really from the time of the cold ravine, well, say hello, and let's actually move according to logic. about which we said that history teaches that it does not teach anything, and even more so in the 21st century, where

the more gadgets, the less people know, so please tell me, in your opinion, such high results, mr. professor, when 70% of your survey shows that ukrainians now understand that the ukrainian rebel army is actually the basis of the foundations resistance to russian aggression, is it the merit of... various state institutions, which opened the eyes of ukrainians to their own history, or is it the merit of uncle putin and his occupiers, who finally forced. ukrainians need to realize themselves and learn more about themselves, so who has contributed more here, the ukrainian state or russian aggression? no, well, look, i think there is no need to measure here , you understand, russian aggression definitely contributed to the fact that the majority of people, more people began to evaluate the ukrainian insurgency more positively, the activity of the ukrainian insurgent

army, it is true, but in reality, the knowledge about the ukrainian rebel army ... they did not arise today, that is, it was a long process, a long process of opening the archives, studying the archives, the work of many institutions, non-state and state, in particular the ukrainian the institute of the national monument, which mr. vitrovich headed for a certain time, he contributed to this too, yes, and now continues to contribute, yes, that is why this process, it was going on, it was going on since the time of independent ukraine, but it was with zigzags, well because yanukovych was there when they tried it to turn back, the leadership of the ukrainian institute of national remembrance was changed, etc., i wanted to say, since you started to give the numbers, in fact, these numbers should be given at 12:30, when we will

present them, by the way, as you learned. this information, well, well, what numbers can be shared, i just want to clarify , because, well, i'm a scientist, when we say 70%, it's 70% of those who know anything at all about the ukrainian rebel army, and such people also 70%, yes, that is, 70% will be multiplied by 70%, which means half, half ukrainians, a good indicator, but almost a quarter of those surveyed, 23%, they do not know anything about the ukrainian insurgent army, yes, what too, for me it is even a little strange, but such people, but such people exist, therefore, if we to sum up, i would say that in general, our knowledge, both historians and, even

more, the population, they have increased... tremendously, tremendously about this period of ukrainian history and about the activities of our heroes, and this is a very positive trend, ah, but there is still more to work on, and again, for us knowledge is needed not just hoo-hoo, but really to understand the complex processes that were taking place then, and then we will be armed to resist putin's aggression on various fronts including, information, heard, we just ask to be a little more concise, that we had time to question you more, that is, mr. volodymyr , who, for example, as a historian, as a person who studied and discovered, including the archives

of the upa, and and many joined precisely to the discovery of the truth to ukrainians who did not want and quite often resisted in order to know their history, mr. volodymyr, in this case we saw a fairly clear division into certain clusters of society in which they simply did not want to know the truth either about shukhevych or about the ukrainian rebel army, you yourself saw it well and there were very different correlations there, there were people with certain political views, there were certain reggae dominated by certain political forces, but i have a question about the resistance, you know, it was once in physics they taught the resistance of dull materials, so on after all, it seems to have been overcome, but why was it so long, why 30 years, so resisted the historical truth, it is obvious that this is the result

of very serious work, first of soviet propaganda, and now of russian propaganda, it is obvious that on those in stories where nothing was known about the ukrainian insurgent army, except for what was said about them by soviet and then russian propaganda, it is obvious that there it caught on much more, on the other hand, in those territories where the prop was remembered, they knew from experience some families, i.e. where she worked the ukrainian palovan army, this propaganda did not take root there, and this is how these changes began during the 30 years of ukraine's independence, and i absolutely agree with mr. professor that the russian aggression was the start of these changes, but in fact, the foundations were laid before these changes of rethinking the ukrainian of the pakistani army long before that, and with the participation of historians with the participation of the public, unfortunately, it was far from immediately connected to this: the state, this happened only after the beginning, already after the end of the revolution of dignity, but extremely important,

that the foundations for the rethinking of the ukrainian-insurgent army had already been laid, and now, if we talk about a change in assessments, about some, different vision of the ukrainian army, it is important to understand that here this difference is determined not so much by geography as by age, for many people, of an older age, it is still difficult to reinterpret the history of the ukrainian insurgent army for many, this history still remains through the prism of soviet propaganda, because we understand that there is a school for children for children, there are universities where there should be an appropriate program, appropriate upbringing, teaching, what to do with those who have already finished school, in whom some still with soviet different views, their thoughts and concepts have been formed, especially you who already has this very, very established soviet old opinion and position? by the way, as this social

poll shows, the majority of ukrainians believe that not enough is told about the ukrainian parym, specifically about roman shukhevych, both in textbooks and in the mass media, respectively, that is, the demand is much greater than and the proposal that we can offer, i am sure that it is really easier for the state to work through the tools of education with the younger generation, but at the same time we should not forget about the education for adults, and here it is precisely such institutions as the institute of national memory, who carry out such work in the form of exhibitions, in the form of various kinds of discussions, they have to fill this gap for those people who will no longer return to school. how to fill the gap, do you have any concepts. first i ask mr. volodymyr, then mr. oleksiy let's ask for an answer to the same question. yes, mr. volodymyr, what is the concept of how to fill the gap, something is very hard

to hear, and, i will try to be louder, the question, in fact, is how quickly, against the background of this russian-ukrainian aggression, to convey and fill the gap to people who have finally begun to think or doubt, which it has been a long time since i was not behind, not behind a student desk, well, it seems to me that there should be a little... more attention is generally paid to the topic of historical enlightenment, which unfortunately is not done, it seems to me that there is a lack, a very lack of historical content now in in the information space, especially in the information space that is implemented through various state channels, the situation is better on public television, where we have examples of even good documentary historical films, but it would absolutely be worth making some historical programs, some supplementing historical content. even though we do not like the only marathon, if it still exists, then in principle it could be used with benefit, in particular, in order to convey more information about our

the past, because history remains one of the arenas of inveterate confrontation with russia, with russian propaganda, and not doing anything on this topic is, unfortunately, giving russia the opportunity to continue to live, mr. professor, we want the same for another minute, your recipe, i think , that we already have a lot of good documentaries, just about this period, and , well, i watch the right channels, for the most part, that's why i get this information, i really need to, i agree that it needs to be actively carried out and on those channels that so to speak, cooperate with the state within this framework a single marathon and so on, but you know, sometimes we also have to think about art cinema. unfortunately, i will say, our problem is that we don't have much historical cinema , yes, that is, even when the directors take on good topics, it somehow doesn't work out, somehow it

comes out sketchy, unconvincing, well, you start watching this film, and it you don't get carried away, in fact, when we talk about these plots, struggles, well, in particular, you are yakov upa, well, shakespeare is resting there, you see, i started watching, unfortunately, here we are, here we somehow we are behind, well, we wish we could catch up, unfortunately, we have to say goodbye because the air, by the way, we will broadcast this presentation at 12:30 on espresso air, watch it, it will be interesting and important, yes, volodymyrovych, historian and oleksiy garan, professor of political science, scientific director ilko kuchaev democratic initiative foundation were with us, we are going for a break, then the news and we will be back. attention, an incredible novelty, unpack the tv: super warm and very comfortable alaska

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