[000:00:00;00] this is ideal and we know that there are also enough populists there, and in poland , the result is actually very difficult, and i believe that donald tusk now has very cool positions regarding the formation of a coalition, but they are not one hundred percent, other options are possible, and in key positions, representatives of the ruling party, that is, the start of a new coalition, if it will be... positionally , it will not be very, very rosy, but it is also very important to understand that central and eastern europe, they will continue to be defined, as you said, by the struggle of these trends, well, conventionally, such steels have been completed democrats, and equally steadfast but

imperfect autocrats, and this fight, it is very difficult for our pre-accession process to the european union, it is not only about grain or only about agriculture, because the negotiations there cover 35 different chapters and there will be very and a lot, well, for the reform of the european union, this is a crazy challenge, what is orbán doing, he trades money, trying to control hungary as a country, well, fiza does not control slovakia, but nevertheless... he won the election less, he has carte blanche, in central europe as a whole, is now really a struggle between these two trends, and it will be the same in the coming years, and we will not get rid of it. mr. pavle, i have a diplomatic-philosophical question for you, i correctly understood that there is a struggle of materialism, idealism, that is, do orbán

and fico have ideas now, but when you said that it is trade, and i myself feel that this is not to show that we are ideologically different, but to say that we are ideologically different in general, give me money, give me money, we, we, we and ukraine will immediately start peace, chewing gum, friendship, that is, how ideological they are, how much ideas arise there, because i have never seen anything from them except material things, when they... criticize, they criticize, well, in we ourselves have few weapons, why did we give everything to ukraine, our collective farm workers, well, how are they there, farmers, so they are suffering, in short, give the woman, in other words, give money, that’s my impression, how right i am, how much i am not right, no, i believe that orban has an ideology, ideology does not interfere he can trade, and trade does not prevent him from being

ideological. and this ideology may be somewhat artificial, may be somewhat sincere, and this ideology is completely clear, it is about the desire to play on conservative values, it is about the desire to play on anti-immigration sentiments, it is on the desire to play on populist sentiments, including in relation to low energy prices, for the opportunity to feel... that everything in the country is the way you want to see it, and as seen in recent years, and there is no need to fundamentally change anything, this is actually an ideology, firstly, when we look at something successful that happened in the past, and secondly, that any new things, positive or not so positive, they

tend to be cut off and not...' and orbán and his party, but partly also we see it from the slovaks, they actively communicate with such more conservative wings in the republican party of the usa, and in this they are in some ways, so even similar to putin and his regime, because putin is really waiting for the elections and would really like to see trump or someone like trump. i think, for slightly different reasons, but orbán, but also maybe fitza, who is somewhat offended by the americans, would also like to see some kind of reset, so there is a similarity in this, there is an ideology in this, that is, a fixation on values ​​that they themselves called conservative, but look, putin he also invented his russia for himself and

believes that he is saving it, that is, i am not saying that any parallels need to be drawn here, but nevertheless, certain, certain elements of similarity are definitely present here. mr. minister, look, if we have already touched on the concern of the republicans, then let's fast forward to the united states, how great is the power of mike johnson, who is now the speaker of the lower house, how much he, how much he can control the situation, just when everyone is crying, wolves wolves, i keep thinking, well, he doesn't, doesn't he putin, yes, this is not the russian federation, what. some person came to the mountain, sat down on some chair, said, everything will be as i said, and you, sit and be silent, and raise your hands when i tell you, there is no such thing, there are some restraining moments, institutions and so on and so on,

to what extent he is able to, so to speak, reduce aid to ukraine, that is such a simple and difficult question at the same time, and i believe that he will show himself, and i think that this will be positive for us. he's a very sincere person in his own way, he's a very sincere believer in his version of conservative values, he's a very religious person, i don't know him personally, but among my friends and fellow republicans there , those who know him, they all say, that he is respected, respected for sincerity, respected for consistency, and respected for the fact that he is always devoted to his vision, and when he says: i don't accept it, but we have a free country, and that's how it should be, well, agree, it deserves respect, and his first words regarding ukraine, they in my opinion, they are not bad at all, plus, he is very

focused on containing china, and he is already saying that if putin is allowed to win, it will strengthen china, that is, there are ideological ones here, we talked about it with you. but there are ideological arguments in a good sense, but there are absolutely rigid and rational geopolitical arguments, i think we have a great space to talk to him, he has a lot of respect among his colleagues, just because of that consistency, conservativeness and sincerity, it will be easier for him to push a lot of things because he has the support of trump and key figures among the republicans, he is still able to connect the various wings and camps among the republicans, there is a kind of tumult there at the moment, so i would actually

give him an opportunity to prove himself, including in relation to us, and i by no means negative, now about russia, without it there is nowhere, and such a strange thing, i just...' when i found out that hamas, representatives of hamas came to russia, to moscow, and the iranians there, somewhere their ears are pricked, how much, you know , intelligent people put their eggs in different baskets, and here they demonstratively put their eggs in an uncivilized, let's say, basket, why did putin choose so, so one... a significant terrorist organization as an interlocutor, this is very strange, they were very good in russia, well, with from my point of view, opportunities in the near future in the east, they did not fall out with israel , they have good traditional relations

with the arabs and the muslim world, that is, they mediate some moments, now they have started good relations with iran, trade, weapons iran supplies and so on and so on, and then suddenly a person says, no , i... i spit on it all, i will sit down with the terrorists at the negotiating table , or just order my diplomats to sit down at the negotiating table with the terrorists, as far as that, i had the impression even today that it was some kind of sickness, that is, he just as hitler, in the last months of his stay in power in the 45th year, everyone already noted that he was no longer full of reason, simply obvious things were not done, and completely dubious things were done on the contrary. what about putin and hamas? they will deliberately catch them in public. they want to show that they are the only ones who can talk and can achieve results. and this is what they want to show israel and the arab

countries, and the west, and china as well, they critically need some kind of success, somehow, as they think, to surprise everyone with something they surprised hamas with this visit, they could not talk to them publicly, they actually talk to them, and when we know that hamas depends a lot on raan, well, that is, not 100%, since hezbollah, well, almost 100% %, hamas does not, but russia shows that it is still a player in the middle east , it has positions around assad, it has positions now with hamas, it has positions in the organization of the liberation of palestine, and in fact this visit, it is completely clear, and without us you can't, either

we'll help you or we'll spoil the game for you, this is an absolutely banal blackmail, very well calculated, well, but, well, it is obvious that the power of western diplomacy far exceeds the power of soviet diplomacy and khamazov diplomacy, well, when the whole world sees this, something in my head, somehow does not add up in my head, that, what profits, well, no one will say, that is? you, if, i have no conviction that if putin hopes that by talking to hamas, he will force the french, or the british, or the americans, or not the germans, that is, the big players, somehow, well, what did they say, oh, we they were mistaken here, it turns out that putin is good, we need to be friends with him, because you see he is friends with hamas, and where would we be without putin, i don’t have something like that, i can’t imagine it, no, well, no one will think him.

from this is good, they will look after him, as he considers it simply necessary, and the ussr and then russia very consistently built relations among the palestinians, this has its own country both in terms of money, and in terms of aid, and in non-public things, so now, as the kremlin decided, it is time to play this card, whether they have it really this trump card is in the cards, we'll see, i'm not sure at all, but cooperation with iran, if they will go in such a team, well, it allows you to influence something, something, and i'm right here, i'm not a fan of underestimating the enemy in general and putin is an enemy, for sure, he will now actively blackmail everyone and say, but if i am not the iranians

, then i will let it go and you will go into a big escalation, and no one needs a big escalation, neither in the security sense, nor in the sense oil prices and so on, and so on, that is, of course no one will love putin, it is better he will not be treated because of it, but blackmail can be effective, i would again, i would not underestimate it, it is very like that... and even a rude step with hamas, it is very well calculated and now russia will play it further . the last question, mr. minister , but still, we can already say that the axis of evil has formed, russia, iran, hamas, north korea, to a certain extent venezuela, and they have everyone behind them. stands china,

that is, well, if two worlds, yes, two worlds, two worlds, said in the soviet union, what do you say, we can already do this as a given to say, to assert, no, i actually do not see some kind of axis, as those who are allies, have some common values, and even common interests, i see a situational desire to work together, i see. he is in russia, i see him in iran, but in iran everything is also very difficult there, there will most likely be such a complicated process of rebooting, ayatollah, he is already quite an old man, and around there, clans like ancients are trying to choose to choose the best position, this we know, well, hamas, with hamas. yes, well

, we know what hamas is, we know what it is hezbollah, we know who assad is, well, but they also mentioned others, there are still comrades there, and others, and the rest, the chinese, and the chinese are definitely not part of this axis, but they will use it, and when they needed for their own interests, and in my opinion, a lot will depend on the meeting. if it does happen, it has not been formally confirmed at next month's ates summit. this is a very important story and if they agree on certain rules. rivalry, then it will be a cool story, including for us, if they agree cleanly, let's see if not will come to an agreement, well, it will be bad, that’s how, you know, i understand your smile, it probably reminds you of once upon a time russian fairy tales, you will go

left to right, yes, but, but i rather, rather in a different sense, i have, by the way, because i feel such quite er, quite optimistic expectations from this meeting, and the way the preparations are going, of course, we do not know everything, well, in principle, there are certain positive developments, thank you, pavlo klimkin, diplomat of the minister of foreign affairs of ukraine 14- he was in touch with us for 19 years, now we are briefly in touch let's immerse ourselves in advertising for 4-5 minutes, and after we emerge from advertising, we'll talk about... because the president was the french macron in the middle east, and it's interesting to learn about it. with oksana milnychuk, we'll talk about france, which is right there and is located, as far as i understand, it is from the university of paris denis de dro, but

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, as i promised, a candidate of political sciences at the university of paris dni dedro, oksana melneichuk will appear now, i hope, she will not appear yet, i am told, but she will appear, we will talk about macron's visit to the middle east, he was also in israel, he was also in palestine, he was also in egypt, and everywhere he said different words and expressed different opinions, i could say, i never understood what he wanted, it would just be mine the first question, because on the one hand, mr. macron, that is, the president of the french republic, said that the struggle should be merciless, and even offered to create a coalition against hamas, on the other hand , he said that nothing can justify the suffering of civilians, residents of gaza

, how can it be a merciless struggle, and at the same time, without the suffering of civilians, it is difficult for me to imagine, and and and then i added cairo, that is, in the capital, now it is probably necessary to say in the old, in the old capital of egypt, because they are there are building a new one, said that israel's invasion of the gas sector would be a mistake, how can you conduct a merciless struggle without invading... the gas sector, which, as a matter of fact, is the main irritant, to put it mildly, of what is happening now in the near, near east, and what is happening specifically, here we see how they are meeting with the president of egypt, mr. sisi, this is the kind of president they have who expelled the muslim brothers, well, again, he is not quite... so honest, well, as always in such countries he is a military man, a marshal, as far as i

remember, and he was really just a brother muslims, from whose branches hamas actually is, hamas was born from a part of the muslim brothers, it is such an international organization that works in various countries of the middle east and in general in various muslim countries, which means that it was born by... this organization, actually saying, hamas, well, it is considered so, one, one of the versions, because certainly terrorist organizations do not publicly announce where they went from and what they want, terrorists usually do it very quietly and suddenly, so that no one understands where they are, what they , how they, when they and why they, in fact, in fact, this is what we will talk about with oksana. candidate of political sciences from the university of paris denini, i hope she has already appeared, if she

did, great, we will talk with her, ms. oksana, thank you for finding time for us, and a question, this is a question, i found three quotes, the fight against hamas must be merciless, one phrase of mr. macron, nothing can justify the suffering of civilians... macron's second phrase. israel's invasion of the gas sector would be a mistake. the third phrase of mr. macron, which he said already in cairo that is, it is difficult for me to imagine how a merciless struggle can be without an invasion of the gas sector and without the suffering of civilians in the gas sector. explain to us what french newspapers write, first of all, what they write at all? you know, i listened to all of macron's speeches, wherever he said something, yes, to have direct language in the first place, and i did not hear in a single sentence what he

said about the need to protect civilians in the gas sector, he always, he repeated 10 times, everywhere, simply about protection, undeniable protection of the civilian population, no saying exactly where, in which sector it needs to be protected, er, what is very important to understand in general in the situation with macron's visit to israel, yes, it was... the first visit of a western leader to ramallah, yes to the palestinian territory, and he was honestly in a state of, you know, a diplomatic split, in fact, i don't see you, mykola, i'm here, i'm on the air, i'm here, the main thing is that we see you, the most important thing is that we see you, okay, and you know , well, it was felt that it was very difficult for him to keep such a serious line. because france has the largest jewish community in europe

and the largest arab community in europe in numbers is 2,000 jews and between seven or 12 million arabs, yes, that is, 7-9 million is the official number of arabs, muslims in france, and 12 million is taking into account those who are here illegally, that is you can imagine what kind of baggage macron came with, because, for example, the entire politicum is french, media, of course, everywhere there are representatives, actually jews, yes, but as for the suburbs, paris, it is surrounded, precisely, by representatives of palestinian refugees, you can imagine to imagine in which such licks are located the president of this country, well, last saturday, on sunday, we had a demonstration here, there were 30,000 palestinians in the squares of paris who spoke in support of palestine, that is, in such a historical political context, macron was in israel, well, but here is

public opinion, here newspapers, what they write, radio, television, the internet, they write objectively, or considering the eyes of these 9 million muslims, arabs, and say, well, let's not annoy them, let's somehow say more carefully, well, because if my boy my mind tells me, hamas attacked israel, and that's all, and i'm starting to clearly understand who is bombing and who isn't. and hamas is lying with the bombings, and israel is not lying yet, at least what can be verified, what is written in france, which, as public opinion is located, let's say, in this field, you know, public opinion is very careful, then, i will remind , that in france there is still such a leftist tendency, yes, it is always

to support the weak, i look weak at the moment for some reason... and the poor man is offended the palestinian people, so of course there is such a tendency, i cannot say that there is any , you know, inclination or emphasis in one direction more or less, everyone takes a very cautious position, i would say so, it is some such unjustified even neutrality, but that's all well, i would like to dwell on those important things that macron himself said, because i listened very carefully. conference in ramallah, when he and abbas, yes he was giving a press conference, and abbas, it looked like macron, you have to intervene because the poor palestinian people are suffering, all of us they insult us, they destroy us, they cut off the electricity, they don't give us water, hide everything, that is, here are the damned imperialists, everyone is against us, the whole world supported israel, and here we are poor, unhappy and so on, well, you just had to

look at the appearance, at the faces. macron, of course, he, you do not envy him, the truth is, i will say, because he just came from netanyahu, yes, where they mourned the victims, 40 frenchmen died and so on, and here he is listening to the completely opposite position, which is damned imperialists, you know, to me i had the impression that i was listening to brezhnev , but the truth is, when i was listening, macron exhaled like that three times, and he probably repeated the same thing 10 times, you know, i had the impression that he is always, as if he is. .. this is how he addresses abbas, you understand, you understand, i want to emphasize such, well, important points, so that you understand, maybe you will hear, yes, what is the official, official position of france, which was expressed, that our position, it is unchanged, says macron, we recognize that there must be two states, this position, it is based on

the principles of security and peace, and there are three pillars for that. for such a position, the first pillar is the fight against any manifestation of terrorism, he probably said 10 times, in front of abbas, looking him in the face, that hamas is a terrorist organization, hamas killed such and such a number of frenchmen, hamas killed such and such number of israelis, hamas is so-and-so. we distinguish between the palestinian people and hamas. hamas is separate, palestine is separate for us, so for us the first and most important step is to fight against any manifestations of terrorism, both in israel and in the entire middle eastern region. he emphasized that france, it is involved in a coalition that consists of about 10 countries, including the countries of the middle east, and that he said, we work in very difficult conditions when we have to protect the civilian

population in our impunity. fighting against