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of espresso and invited experts, based on facts, give their assessment and forecast of the development of events. if you want to understand how our today will affect our tomorrow, look at saturday's political club every saturday, on espresso. hello, this is svoboda ranok, an informational project of radio svoboda. top guests every day, this is the shipping district, kherson. turn on live. we are somewhere in the vicinity of bakhmut, we are telling the main thing. on weekdays at 9:00. here we continue this topic, the middle east war, it was permanent, but so acute and so. what is happening now between israel and

the hamas organization in the gas sector has not been seen for a long time, now we will talk about it, both about its course and about the consequences with the israeli diplomat, he the former ambassador of russia in israel, in connection with our studio arkady milman, mr. arkady , we welcome you, i congratulate you, mr. arkady, this is actually the hottest night in the gas sector, where there is no... no electricity, no communication , no internet, nothing, yes, that is, it all looks like this, the idf itself publishes a large number of videos to show the effectiveness of its sectoral measures to the north of the gaza strip and strikes on the underground structure, and this is a fairly serious structure of the combat wing of hamas, it is underground, under the houses in one of the most densely populated areas, and there will always be... the world between

the state having the right to defend itself, the state, israel and to give a military response, and the fact that giving a military response is actually a humanitarian disaster for the people on the territory, where the terrorist organization hamas operates, is it possible to find a balance here, at least in the light of the fact that the united nations voted for a resolution, yes, the ministry of foreign affairs of israel has already responded that we will not implement it, because it is cynical. can you find something here and balance, no matter how wild it sounds against the background of war? thank you for the question, with your permission i will answer, in russian, it was indeed what is called the worst night, it was shown to hamas, the population of gaza, what we can do in response to the terrorist attack committed by

hamas on october 7, it was killed, i i remind you, more than 1,004 were brutally killed, more than 1,004 people, there were families who were burned alive in their homes, there were women who were raped, then killed and wanted to burn, then infants were taken hostage, 6 months, children, who were taken for 3 years, 4 years, 5 years, elderly women, elderly men, young people, there are 200 of them now... 29 people, and it may even be that hamas, er, and another terrorist organization, the islamic jihad also holds more people, it is necessary to understand what is happening now, this is a counterattack against these terrorists, now there is always this dilemma that you are talking about, we are a civilized state, the israeli army has an ethical code, and we preserve it, and we obey international humanitarian law right, but here is the question: if

this is an existential war for us, and it is an existential war, because this danger that hamas carries with itself, it can hit our state in such a way that we will cease to exist if 1400 people are killed in this way in 1 day, this is a terrorist organization, this is an existential threat , when this threat becomes existential, you need to understand what will be the proportional impact of the party that bears this threat and must reduce it, this is israel, this is and the dilemma, what does it mean proportionally, what does it mean to answer, now we are dealing with it, and we will continue to look at how we should proceed, without any doubt, our goal is the same: a minimum of casualties among the civilian, palestinian population, a maximum one hundred percent strike on all terrorists, we will everyone is captured, our government has declared it, our army has declared it, this

is how we act all our lives, these terrorists must be destroyed, this is the dilemma, and it will continue, he actually answered this dilemma quite clearly. and john kirby, commenting in vol including the words of joseph biden, the american president, in response to a journalist's question at a press conference about the civilian population in the gas sector . to which kirby replied, the terrorist approaches of hamas cannot go unanswered, but yes , there will be victims among the civilian population, because this is the price of war, because always when such conflicts, of such a scale, are resolved, we in ukraine know this well, it follows simply

these terrible stories with victims among the civilian population, that is why it is better not to start wars, and normal people, normal leaders, normal countries are well aware of this, mr. arkady, and what's next, well, that is... in the gas sector with tsagal appears, conducts an operation, it doesn't matter how this operation ends, but does israel renew its presence in the gas sector , yes, does it still do its job, tsagal comes out, how will it be next, as you see it, and it comes out , the presence of the israeli army must end with an israeli victory army, otherwise we have a more serious problem and we will not be able to continue to exist, this is the first , the second, how long this war will last, we do not know, we have such an expression, how and when you start a war, you know how and when you start it you finish, you don't know, we don't know how long it will last, because it's very difficult, there

are very difficult military actions, because we need to destroy approximately 30-4,000 terrorists who are all underground. a whole underground city was built there, bunkers, tunnels, it will be very difficult to fight against them. the second point, after this is over, neither the israeli government nor the israeli army is going to stay in the territory of the gaza strip for a single time, why, because it is not our territory, we do not need it, and we are before the start of the war with hamas , until october 7, there was not a millimeter of this land that was in our possession, it was completely liberated territory for the palestinians, instead of building a normal life there, they built such a terrorist formation, such a terrorist structure that fights against us, what will happen next

, a good question, it is clear that there should be the presence of some international military forces, which include friendly arab countries, such as egypt, the emirates, the united emirates. we hope that by that time the saudis will also join this process, other arab countries in which we , with whom we have normal relations, morocco, for example, bahrain, the americans should be, and there may also be some forces from europe that will to support this, without there being some kind of military mechanism, we will not be able to leave this territory, otherwise we will again be a threat, mr. arkady, but just now we spoke in front of you with the political scientist oleg...' oken, who said that in one of the visions is that the tzagal army, yes, destroys the combat wing of hamas, the consequence of all this will be the final implementation, let's say so , of the 70-year-old un decision on the creation

of an independent state of palestine, such and such a scenario in israel, the political-military leadership generally now sees, considers is debating, or was it just an assumption in our studio, and such a scenario is nowhere near seen in israel? this is a very good question, because october 7 showed that the concepts that existed in israel all failed, they all ended, a terrible surprise for us, ended with the fact that for the first time after the holocaust we found ourselves in a situation where in one day 1,400 people were killed, more than 3,500 people were wounded, 229 people were taken hostage, and this is not the last number. and i just want to say

tv viewers, that there are still bodies of people who cannot be identified, they are so mutilated and there are difficulties, to understand how many more dead people are, who these people are, to understand by names, to convey a message to the families, now they are listed as missing, all these concepts , who were there before the war, they were lured, so there is no way out, and even if netanyahu, i hope that he will step down after this war and a new government will be elected, and after this it is clear that the americans, and europe, and the whole world are with us part of society that i am i also belong, we are talking about the scenario of two states, but these states are palestinian , which in the end should be a peaceful solution, because any war ends with some diplomatic agreements and some peace agreements, it is necessary to understand that this state, it there should be demils. otherwise , extremist organizations like hamas will rise again, these ideas of extremism will

flourish there again, so it will be necessary to create such a state that will be completely demilitarized, in this case, i think что эти секранирии, они может быть выплечный. mr. arkady, well, you know, from the thesis of russian propaganda that hamas received american, in particular, weapons. from the hands of the ukrainians, before the appearance of hamas in moscow at an official reception, not so much time passed, and in general, how do you reflect on the topic of the fact that representatives of hamas, er, can afford such a trip, it is rare, which country, well in fact, it would mean talking to terrorists on an equal footing, but the russian federation is resorting to this practice more and more often, and that is, well, there is no more obvious where, but there are many people in israel who

still have tender feelings for the russian federation, because after all there are a lot of repatriates from there and for many other reasons, somehow what is happening now is reflected in the society in israel? well, in my opinion, everyone perfectly understands that russia is a close friend of our enemies, and abu marzuk, who is now in moscow, is also in moscow today, he said. that russia is a close friend of the terrorist organization hamas , there is nothing surprising about this for me personally and for people who follow the politics of russia, russia is a terrorist state, as president zelsky said, hamas is a terrorist organization, that's it, russia, iran, hamas, hizballah and somewhere there is another terrorist state , north korea. here we get a confrontation in ukraine with this axis of evil, in israel with this axis. evil, the democratic world understands it, the united states of america understands it, therefore the united

states of america, it is the right and the only and most serious ally ukraine is the most serious ally of israel, so we are in principle in the same field in the same study area. now, as for the people who still had some illusions about russia in israel, rather out of fear that russia might do something to us. bad, than - let's say this, loving russia, now they are getting rid of this terrible illusion, i think that there are absolutely marginal groups, there are 1-2 or 3%, who still think of themselves as something else, i think that in these illusions will end very quickly, we have them now absolutely a clear position: russia has taken the side of our enemies, it is definitely not our friend, it is not our enemy yet, but definitely... mr. arkady, we have

one more minute, literally, i will ask about these other forces that verbally threaten israel now enter the war on the side of hamas, hezbollah, iran, which is actually its proxy, and of course damascus, which you forgot is also in this axis of attack, because it is from syria from assad. we also understand what forces can also attack the state of israel, so far it is in words, well, that is, except for some local ones shelling on the border, do you consider that israel will really have to fight on several fronts again? we take this scenario seriously, and it is not for nothing that president biden, who was, before his trip to israel, unequivocally said and warned iran and khizwal that if they open a second front, then the planes that are on american aircraft carriers in the mediterranean sea will enter hezbollah will be ordered to fight, iran will be ordered

, iran and hezbollah understand this very well, the skirmishes that are taking place now: on the border, this is such a declaration terrorist organization khizval, that they support hamas too, well, as if it is also at war with us, this is unpleasant, there are several killed on our side, there is also one killed on their side, this will most likely continue for some time, and we we very much hope that there will be no miscalculation and they will make the right decision, not enter into a war with us, because if they enter, then not only we will fight against them, but also the americans. thank you mr. arkady, arkady milmon, israeli diplomat, ex russia's ambassador to israel for an up-to-date analysis of the situation in the middle east war. by the way, we will also talk about her, but with such a human dimension, because we are very interested in people

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but it is not in effect. we have a democracy, there who does what he wants. ukrainian culture. about ukrainian folk architecture, its features and ways of salvation in a documentary series from the ukrainianer strykha project on saturday at 11:15 a.m. at espresso. vitaly portnikov is with you, and we are talking about the main events of this week. vitaly portnikov and top experts about the most vivid events of the last seven days. our guest will be the lieutenant general of the ground forces, former national security advisor to the president of the united states, donald trump. current topics, pressing questions, authoritative comments and forecasts in the information marathon project with vitaly portnikov, every sunday at 20:10 on espresso. every day, every hour, every minute we receive a large amount of information. the most anticipated event of the year, what is actually happening at the front, what are the losses

of personnel and equipment on the battlefield, how do we evaluate our successes. the international community, and what moscow is lying about. from the flow of news coming from everywhere, we single out the most important ones. the world is closely watching whether there will be weapons for ukraine and what kind, and what the russian occupiers are whispering about behind the back of the commanders? news, summaries of the week - this is an overview of only important events, important, reliable events, this is analytics, fact-checking, professional comments. about this and much more in today's issue. about important things, in simple language, available. for all viewers, congratulations, iryna koval is in the studio, and these are the results of the week on the espresso tv channel. news, summaries of the week, every saturday at 21:00 on espresso. well, as promised, we continue to talk about the situation in the middle east, many, well, in fact, many of our fellow citizens, seeking salvation from the militants

actions in ukraine in the spring, and at the end of the winter of 2022, chose israel for themselves for various reasons, someone simply had the opportunity to go there, someone had other reasons, but less so, our next guest is one of them, aitivytsia svitlana korobych. together with her son and daughter, she moved to israel, the woman is raising children, and when at the beginning of february last year there were more talks about the possible invasion of russia into ukraine, svitlana decided to take her children out of kyiv, and she hoped that the invasion would not take place, and the trip abroad would be temporary, unfortunately, not so it happened as expected, but the war is catching up, it seems to me that soon there will not be so many on the planet. places to choose where it is not hot. mrs. svitlana, we are glad to welcome you. glory to ukraine. glory to heroes. good day.

ms. svitlana, you know, there are already many stories when people left the war in one way or another, and now they are leaving israel and looking for the next place, because israel is now in a state of war. you will also decide for yourself this second time, this. have a decision, do you stay in israel? no, i remain in israel, but i repatriated, or something like that they call it, aliya, aa in hebrew, and here, ah, in general, my people, ah, it’s not that i don’t consider ukraine home, it’s also home for me , my children were born there, it’s a family for them, and my son , all... all these months, for a year and a half, he tells me every week that he wants to go home to kyiv, but the second time i won't

do it, and i won't do it for several reasons, and the first of them i already i did that when i left ukraine, and it was very difficult, morally, and i even think it would be easier for me to cope psychologically, if i were in kyiv at the beginning of the war, a full-scale invasion, what does this war look like in general, i don’t know, maybe tell me even about this settlement in which you live, whether there are hamas rockets flying there, whether the iron dome is working, whether there are any threats to you, what does this war look like, in your eyes, and i live close to tel aviv , and my - my city is called petahtikva, it is a city that is in the 80 km zone, aa in the

gaza circle, that is, it is close enough, and rockets fly to us, not as many as to tel aviv, but every day, every day , we have at least one siren, in general, when... the war started here, we were in the south with friends in the city of arad, and the terrorists actually stopped 20 km from us, and that was a very scary night, the night between saturday and sunday, and when we were all together with friends, slept in their house and invented with my girlfriend how we will run and where we will run and what to do? if terrorists break into us, they will break through the defense of the tzahal, their city, because

the city is located in the desert and there is no one there, they said ba many suburbs, which is in the center of israel, for example, because here it is like a big enclave with cities, which simply follow one another, and here, if not like in the desert, huh. ms. svitlana, please tell me, internally in israel, people were shocked, surprised, asked questions about how, with all the capabilities of our intelligence, we could miss the preparation and the moment of the attack, how, how people reacted to e the actions of the tzagal military in the first hours, in the first days, i would say after the attack, because some of these actions, i'm sorry, i will still allow myself to ignite now to the analytics of some of our military, who were somewhat surprised, they said: "oh, oh, we thought

that the israeli army is a super pro, but a certain confusion was read in the actions of the tsagal military at the moment when this whole society has experienced what questions it poses, maybe to itself, we see what questions it poses now to the current government, but i will understand about this later, yes? yes, and i think that now is not the time to talk, why so happened, now is not the time...... to investigate this and so on and so forth similar, now is the time to win, to defeat the terrorists, to stop the terrorist regime of hamas, and simply to destroy this hamas, and this is now the time, and of course there were questions, but here the societies are very united in this, in what is needed

firstly, to win, and secondly... to understand why this happened and, of course, to investigate and, of course, condemn those who are to blame for what happened, and in my opinion, everything here is organized quite coolly in the sense that here there are too many high-tech solutions, such as this one, a fence with gas, yes he, he is all ours with electronics, but there is such , such an expression, against the scrap, there is no reception, yes, yes, and here, i, i think so, what happened, this happened, this is exactly , and plus, there was, there was a great holiday, simhat torah, this is a holiday that ends such a period of holidays, and autumn, in israel.

and on this holiday, a lot of soldiers went home, they were given short vacations, and therefore there was not a full complement in the cities, on the bases, and this is also one of the lessons from history that we had, during the yomka ​​puru war or the doomsday war , and when it almost happened too... exactly, too many soldiers went home and there were not enough forces on the ground, on the ground to protect the cities and the people, that is, mrs. svitlana, and i saw how not at different levels, in different groups

in israel, there is a dialogue, for example, between the israelis and the palestinians, and this, too, differs even from that dialogue, whether it is from the gas sector or from palestine, as we say, internal, and from the banks of the jordan, and in this case, there was even a certain period when it seemed that everything would go well, because they added permission to work, to earn a good penny, yes, to people from the gas sector who could earn money in israel and return home, that is , there was a certain vision that maybe there would be a log, now that it is a matter of great blood and emotional stress again, as you can see, let's put it this way, when this war ends, what will the dialogue between israelis and palestinians look like, this is a very difficult question, it is as difficult a question as the question, what will the dialogue between ukrainians and russians look like, and i don't have any ready right now. ..

answers to this question, but i want to say where are the people who came here to earn money for gas, including them, that is why they supplied information to hamas, they did in these same kibbutzim, where then, terrible things that are sometimes compared to buchiyu and irpenim, i apologize, madam svetlana, i have to ask this question, have there been any investigations into the involvement of palestinians from the gas sector who worked in kibbutzim? so.