[000:00:00;00] eh, and unfortunately, many non-western countries still remember the soviet union and see russia through an anti-colonial prism, they said, well, the soviet union, we don't like it, whatever it was, but it helped us then, some kind of factory built some kalashnikovs, but it remained at some mental level, but nevertheless, the cold war, it was a balance. and this balance actually worked, there was no balance in conventional weapons, you can see it in the numbers, and that is why the nuclear balance began, the logic began deterrence, and at the end of the day, you have a lot of words here, but there's no 67, when the belgian foreign minister

then prepared what defined nato's strategy for the decade, they said deterrence is number one, and that came in later in nato's strategy, the main thing is deterrence, but let's remember how long the warsaw pact lasted, 31 years, 36, 36 years, that's a whole era, and there were different eras of it, there were periods of de-escalation of international tensions, that is, the cold war, but it degree was different at certain stages of this cold war degree was different, in the end, the fact that the soviet union went the way of the arms race, militarism, he himself could not withstand, and the fact that the soviet union disappeared, not being able to withstand what it had set itself, the economy there could not withstand, and

this is the time , while the cold war was going on, did the union believe that nato could attack and did they believe in nato that they could be attacked, here is this organization of the warsaw pact, an interesting question is why, because we do not know what the soviet leadership was thinking there, they will attack sooner or later, so we need to prepare for war, this militarism is still present in the russian federation, because they are preparing for war, if it were a nuclear war, there were so many nuclear weapons that it was possible to destroy the whole earth there 10-12 times, who is the winner? no, they couldn't stand it, here you have the caribbean crisis written here, very nice, and in such blue letters. and this was the most tense moment when the soviet union decided that it was so cool that it could place missiles in cuba, and secretly, and the west showed that when it

comes to its security. the west is ready to raise the stakes and is ready to fight for itself, and the soviet union retreated. i think that actually, in the soviet union, this distorted mentality, it allowed that the west would attack. i think there are historical examples, and there are materials of meetings, the politburo, all this is actually known, but why attack the soviet union in the west? this is this actually from the point of view of western logic it is a mystery, but from the point of view of soviet logic, we will be destroyed, and accordingly we will not be there, that is, in moscow, in every head, at least in the politburo, there was, god forbid, we are going to a military operation , let's go into the history of the occupation, and nothing fundamental has changed in this,

the forms have changed. the content has not changed, democracies do not attack each other, this is the principle after the war there of such an approach to the world, here is autocracy, well, for happiness, as i said , totalitarianism, in fact, i would like to return to the caribbean crisis, because yes, it was a moment, when the world was on the brink of a missile-nuclear war, by the way, this is not the first time , this is also... during the korean war, but here it is already real, how the united states reacted, kennedy reacted, precisely thanks to their position, well, i i would say, even like that, very much decisive, very decisive, it forced khrushchev to retreat, it was the culminating moment in the confrontation, in general, in the cold war, but the greatest confrontation was still

inside, as we have already started to say, and the invasion of hungary happened in the 56th year of all a year after the creation of this organization of the warsaw pact, and in my opinion the most cynical thing here is that in the eighth article of this speech it is written that the contracting parties will declare that they will act in the spirit of friendship and cooperation with the aim of further development and strengthening economic and cultural ties between them, adhering to the principles of mutual respect for their independence and sovereignty and non-interference in internal affairs, only a year has passed and they are interfering in hungary's internal affairs, why? the soviet union believed that he was not interfering anywhere, that he was fighting some enemies and helping hungary as much as he didn't want to. that is, they themselves understood the principles, here is ours, we control it, if our regime is there, let it be conditionally sovereign there, nothing changed

during the soviet regime, october 1956, in general, several serious events are taking place, at first these events are exciting, well, social events took place in poland, in the summer in poznań, already in october, in general, all over wrocław and i was there, everything was there, yes, yes, and by the way, the hungarian revolution the first, it is as if in support of these democratic events in poland, but this is the 56th year, we must remember what happened in the soviet union in the 56th year, the well-known, 20th meal, where the cult of stalin is condemned, of course, all these events are echoes of what happened in the soviet union, and hungary, this a country that sided with nazi germany in the second world war, moreover, it was the last ally of germany in the second world war, and you understand what the mood was there,

there were like communist forces, and very strong oppositional ones, and even i would say about fascist, because some manifestations of this revolution, when we talk about the hungarian revolution, we must add, evolution with a cruel face, yes, it was very cruel in terms of both the uprising itself and the reaction of the soviet union to these events, but not the soviet troops only from the territory of hungary, there was a special corps at that time and there were very few there, it seems somewhere up to 30,000 only, in romania a separate mechanized army reports introduced troops from the carpathian district, that is , troops were also introduced from ukraine to hungary, there were two clearly defined periods of this, the first lasted a little four days from october 23 to 27-28 to 28, when the revolution won,

the uprising won, and they were even forced to withdraw the troops, the soviet union withdrew the troops from budapest, withdrew completely, but two or three days passed , and blink, others the leader... began to talk about hungary withdrawing from the warsaw pact. the second began on november 4, and lasted for about a week until november 11, and it was already a brutal suppression by the reinforced grouping of troops of the 17th unit, according to the minimum estimates of 1,200, tanks and saw, and the losses were very significant, significant losses, on both sides of course but to a greater extent, these are hungarian rebels and the civilian population, well, there are different estimates, but more than 3,000 people who are with

the soviet forces, well, there are exact figures, now they are not even denied, 669 dead, 51, missing and 1,560 wounded, these are the numbers of soviet losses, of course, there were more hungarian losses, and what more hungarian losses, most of the people, starting from the first stage , began to flee hungary through austria, mainly through the austrian border, well , austria you know, it also had an interesting status, until 1955 there was a group of troops there, a central group of troops, soviet, and only after 1955, these troops were withdrawn, but it was already a democratic state, and people, this stream , people, yes, more than 2000 people, and neutral, this is very important, and since they were, well, conditionally within the framework of one empire, in fact it was

a dual kingdom, among the hungarian elite there were, and this is a very important point, such rather strong tendencies, and why not us, and why can't we be neutral like austria , so why can't we... be completely different, and it's not really pro-socialism, it was really a hard revolution, there wasn't, there was such a very hard clash, and the hungarians understood , or, or, and here are the numbers of losses, which you point out, yes, indeed, they are there, it is not even denied in principle, look, in the soviet troops, these are very serious numbers, this means that there were quasi-combat actions, and that the hungarians were ready to fight for themselves, in addition to the use of armored vehicles , i know why, i myself know very well, i defended my phd thesis specifically, on the combat use of soviet troops in the conflict in hungary in 1956, i know how the troops were used,

which troops, and there were even planes that, even one plane, soviet, was shot down over chepel island, it is on the danube, aviation wanted bombs, but on the approach to the border with hungary, received the command to turn back, why is it difficult, but still they were afraid that it was already complete. for destruction, the war would be for destruction, it could escalate, and somewhere they were walking on a razor's edge, whether joining nato, whether it will go, or not, especially since the united states called to fight more actively, to defend its, and everyone thought that the hungarians thought that the united states and nato would step in, so why didn't they step in, because the soviet union did what it did. he

said that he was ready to use any force, and the soviet union and its leadership at the time, concluded that there would be no more soviet empire, it would fall like dominoes, and these actions, when a significant number of soviet troops were deployed on territory of hungary, this is exactly what it is about, it is about cruelty, it is about understanding that one must go to the end. that is why the soviet leadership did everything possible, for the hungarians this is part, if you will, of this revolution of their national dignity, as they conduct politics there, it's a different reality, but the hungarians left for the hungary they really dreamed of, it wasn't thousands of people, it was tens of thousands of people who participated. in opposition, and it was not only budapest, it was the whole picture

of hungary, so the soviet union perfectly understood to omit hungary, to omit altogether their fictional socialist world, which they created. the hungarian events played, played a significant role, including for the entire bloc, and the leaders of other socialist countries also looked at it and understood, that you don't have to act like that. but after that, you know, hungary was called the funnest, well, barracks of the socialist camp , the friendly cadres, hungary became the freest country in the socialist camp, but the main slogan of the organization of the warsaw pact is the union of peace and socialism. peace was broken back in 1956, they actually also spoke out against socialism during the invasion of czechoslovakia in 1968. and in fact it was the only joint operation of these socialist countries in which only

albania and romania did not participate. actually, who are they against? did they fight there in czechoslovakia? these events developed for a long time, starting from the spring, yes, why, after all, the prague spring event , the invasion took place already in august, the danube operation was carried out, but after certain exercises were held there, there, the training of the toll structure, others and the united forces entered, and from different sides, from the north, from the east, this contingent, well , about half a million armed forces entered czechoslovakia , such a stronghold in czechoslovakia, there was a civil war, isolated cases of the use of weapons, and here you can't talk about rebels, here if they are rebels in hungary, here there were no rebels... there were rebels as such, there were individuals like that, but you know, when

you compare all the losses, well, how many people there, about 70-80 people from the soviet side only died, this is disproportionate to the hungarian events, this is the peaceful nature of the revolution, but you see, even the peaceful nature provoked such actions of the soviet union, the operation itself is interesting, this danube operation, eh, was marked as special... for example, the equipment, for example, white, stripes on tanks were applied there to other equipment to distinguish from the czech armed forces, special forces and airborne troops played the main role. the zaho troops captured the strips, for the objects of the airfield structure, and so on, and already on the first day they captured the communist party of ukraine, the parliament, and everything, the main objects, and the armed forces, the demand is one, to surrender weapons, all

czechoslovak events , this is efemi, of course events, hungarian events, czechoslovak events, but i cannot in any way perceive a position for... both in hungarian events and in czechoslovak events, well, here is a question for the diplomat, what was the position of the west, how did they react, as far as this reaction was proportionate, it was not, rather political, don't forget that it was 1968, after there were signs of a thaw in the soviet union, they are called by different names, certain, even signs of a national movement were allowed here , be very careful, by the year 68 everything was completely and completely cleaned, the west was then in

a completely different reality, it was already after hungary, after the carrara crisis, but before helsinki it was... until the year 75 it was still very for a very long time, and in my opinion, the west understood how to influence this soviet union, which is afraid himself, who understands that the beginning of the hairstyle is the mid-60s, even earlier in the soviet union, and czechoslovakia for the soviet union and for other, socialist leaders, it was another domino. but it is completely different than in hungary, if in hungary it was a movement to simply move away from the socialist camp, then czechoslovakia is, as they say, a trojan horse, a trojan, human faces, well, what for

the soviet union in 68- year, when you have cleaned everything of yours, there is still some human face, the stick comes out and says... and that's it well, maybe we have principles there, of course, but not stalinism, and he said things that in principle affected people, he said , of course, he did not want to jump to the west, but it was a different reality, the west accepted all refugees, there were very, very many of them, it is interesting, and it is really very interesting, in the hungarian events, we discussed them in detail, the soviet troops did not want to let anyone go, they grabbed everyone, they imprisoned everyone, and they change, the people who were at the center of the uprising, they were all

shot, in czechoslovakia, many were released, the soviet union wanted to wipe out everyone, it wanted to wipe out czechoslovakia and put up the iron curtain again , many, if anyone has read or watched films about the 60 eighth year, they carefully raised the iron curtain, released everyone they considered dissidents, and it again closed, as you know, like a can, as they close, some canned goods, and left really canned goods and did not leave any fresh air there, and the west, 100% would not hesitate, because nuclear weapons ... the potential, you showed, the potential of conventional armed forces in the soviet union was larger, significantly larger than in nato, at the time of military intervention , it was too risky to introduce any sanctions, then the soviet union was a separate

world, in fact, they would not have worked, but even now, and by the way, i was talking to one of my good ' who knew dubchyk well, they still have a certain misunderstanding and emotional resentment towards the west, who, apart from words, deep concern, in fact, actually did nothing, they said, this is our life, the point is the point, many were released, raising iron curtain, but everyone who took participation, understand who... left, they all lost their jobs, that is, people who were teachers, who were doctors, they turned into cleaning, they turned into somebody who... lost the meaning of their existence, and many of them, they didn't get this job just like that, they were gradually

released later, there was a complete, total cleaning of the intellectual space, just like the soviet union did. brezhnev politburo, it wanted meekness, it wanted control, it wanted to somehow live in the west and yes... things, and this many people don't remember, it was after the soviet union had established full control over the socialist camp that the soviet union agreed in 69 to begin the first strategic arms control talks, only when the soviet union said i hold everyone, now the control is ours , then let's talk about the fact that to a large extent the soviet leadership, it, i don't know how it was inspired, if this is the right word, but she

said, well, yes, we strangled czechoslovakia, but then they talk to us, talk about helsinki, well, why no, we write down some principles here, then they accept us, we shake each other's hands there, and that's about moral responsibility and justice. which in fact, as we say, there is no, there is no deadline, but then the soviet union said, so what, well, they forgot, and this policy from the west, it offends and then offended the polish intelligentsia, more, more, and that's it very important , they didn't intervene - that's one thing, but then they actually apologized to the soviet union for what it did, and that's fine, well, now let's shake hands. it's very, very much, i know it well, actually you are reading this, read haval, by the way, here is haval in the plays, this

is a beautiful story, about the reaction of the west, why not, the year 68, uh, the united states, what are they doing, they are waging a war in vietnam and a very serious war, apparently this also dulled their view of europe in a certain way, and as they let go of the sphere, the sphere of the soviet union, let them figure it out, of course not quite like that, certain diplomatic steps were taken, but still they were aimed at returning the soviet union, say, to contact with the united states, which took place in the mid-70s, and the de-escalation of international tensions, and czechoslovak events also played a role in this, but it was not, it was not the end of history, yes, then in the 80s, again after all, it is primarily

connected with afghanistan, about afghanistan, look , the fathers worked out joint actions already in prague, but the union invades afghanistan independently, without the support of allies, why, why were they not involved, but organizationally, it is very it would be difficult to do what we were taught that afghanistan is in russian, eto yuzhnoe the underdogs of the soviet union, and here the united states, as it were, is introducing troops there, and it is necessary to oppose it, it is necessary to get ahead of them as soon as possible, because they will place all the missiles there, that is, in principle, they will slip away, that was in afghanistan, you understand, and the idea and she was in afghanistan, well, maybe she was conceptually wrong for the idea of ​​making afghanistan another republic. of the soviet union, most of the countries already looked at it a little differently after czechoslovakia, there was no such desire to participate in such

joint, well, by and large punitive events, that is, such an invasion did not happen in poland in the early 80s, when solidarity began there for this very reason , solidarity, and in poland, in a different way then, that is why there were a number, let's say romania in particular, it is already categorically she was against it, she spoke like that and it could be a break. in general, and the collapse of this bloc, but the crack had already occurred , and i think the soviet union was afraid that the crack would lead to a complete split, well , here and here, here the economy was working, in the 70s, the soviet union had already sat on the needle oil and gas, that is, the entire economic model was built on what, oil, gas, without it, in fact, nothing. in afghanistan, this is a well-known historical logic, i completely agree here, in the soviet union they were afraid of the encirclement, they

thought that it was actually an encirclement, that's how they are. was built, there are nuclear weapons, there are none, it seemed to them that they were being sharpened, they thought that this operation would be relatively uncomplicated, they really thought that they were being supported there, that’s all the anti-lonial logic, but poland, i think that the breshniv ussr was already afraid to intervene, he saw the scale, he perfectly understood that the reaction to poland would be different, we know that in the states and in britain , the polish communities, they are super powerful, it was actually with the poles, this is much more difficult, and most importantly, the soviet union understood, but god forbid , there will be something in terms of an answer, and then it was necessary to cut off their oil or gas, that

was a different story, and the scale around gdańsk, he was mad, i remember the conversation with wałęsa, he said that really the whole of gdańsk was for solidarity, that is, there, all these party functionaries were hiding in gdańsk, when solidarity took to the streets, it was no longer a czechoslovakian story , it was completely different, but well, it's hard for me to say, i'm not a fan of the soviet union there, i think that... the second half of the 70s, it's in the soviet union itself was a time that someone misses there, this time, but nevertheless, the soviet union was already weaker, and it was absolutely clear, it was not the soviet union that was ready, ready to go to anything, and that's good understood the west, it

was, if you like, churchill's paraphrase. it was the beginning of the end. my friends from solidarity, the same michnik, always said that it started from this, my german friends say , pavel, this is our berlin wall, this is where we started, and, that is, it doesn’t matter where it started, but nevertheless, listen , the whole 80s, it was a different soviet union, there were clear relaxations in hungary, in poland the multi-party system worked, in fact, well, not perfectly, nevertheless, ceaușescu generally laid some somersaults there, like in a giant slalom, well and afghanistan, it is, of course, together with the economy the soviet union has finished, that is, when someone from such ideologues says, well, that’s how we fell, it is the soviet union that should look in the mirror, thank god, there is no one to look at, but nevertheless, the spirit of the soviet union has not yet

died, still is not dead and putin likes to repeat these stalinist theses that the soviet union is where the foot of the liberator stepped, and here is this, an attempt to create, more precisely, the creation of the csto, in fact, the same organization as opposed to nato, or was it a pathetic copy , the organization of the warsaw pact, in fact, with the defeat and the collapse of the soviet union, well, you know, putin considers this event in general , and here maybe these were the first attempts at recovery, although it may already be on some other basis, because that basis has all disappeared, i agree, here are the economic levers , these recent armed conflicts, especially in afghanistan, and the unification of germany, these

factors led, this was the last nail, the last nail, led. before the collapse of the socialist camp as well as the soviet union. and this dcb will try to somehow restore something and can on the basis of this to build something in the future. putin likes to say that they are a separate civilization. so what is the meaning of this separate civilization? therefore , time is also moving backwards for russia. the reason is only. in the fact that we are directly on the front line , and the further it goes, the more complicated and more nervous the russian regime is, and directly putin himself, who has a mission in his head, that he is defending russia, which he himself invented, the csto, so what such is the csto from the point of view, well, yes, there is belarus,