[000:00:00;00] but, even the situation in western universities and in western societies is that pro-palestinian rallies are joined by both the right and the left, and those who are for lgbt rights, and against lgbt rights, and for climate change, that is, who am i just did not see at pro-palestinian rallies, that is, all those who are somewhere not in the mainstream, but somewhere on the extremes , all ran there to this window of opportunity to promote the topic, and this window will expand, depending again on how events will develop, will there be a full-fledged ground operation, which they say whether it won't happen, well, here again, but if it does, there is every chance that it will probably start today, after netanyahu's speech, he promised to hold some kind of press conference, the reaction will be even harsher, it seems to me, i.e., we are entering into such a shaking of the world around this topic,

which is the second time since russia's attack on ukraine. and tell me, why would putin himself accept hamasites in moscow in such a situation? he , too, could, on the idea, take a moderate position, be a mediator. well, russia is leaving those windows of opportunity that for it is opened by the politics of the event. the policy of the west regarding support for ukraine, and support for the syrian rebels, and support for many people from the point of view of russia and china, to some extent looks like weakness. even before it was formed as a legacy of the soviet union, russia had huge connections with the actual organization of the liberation of palestine there, and a lot of things in palestine were not done without the support of the soviet union, these connections have been preserved, but now this is an additional argument , and the argument of power that in russia in moscow holds the keys to peace in the middle east, russia solved a lot of issues in syria, solved issues in libya,

i will solve them. the issue of armenia and azerbaijan and today russia is trying to force, including the united states, to resolve the issue with hamas, specifically through moscow. russia gets a huge lever of influence, and what is extremely interesting: hamasites calmly travel to moscow, calmly arrive, calmly leave qatar, from other countries, they do not stay, their political leadership does not is under direct israeli airstrikes. scattered around the world and exists in a fairly good network , including, apparently, even israel has not yet resorted to radical actions to destroy hamas from the head, and not from some grassroots figures or tactical level commanders who are in gaza, and so russia is now getting this key , and the longer israel continues active military operations, the more signals from russia that look, well, we are ready

to stop it all. can be negotiated through us, it is possible that russia will be able to soon to declare himself a predecessor, and if the situation on the ground does not turn out to be extremely successful for israel, then here, too, israel , despite the condemnation of this visit to moscow, has not imposed any sanctions against russia for supporting terrorists, or is there something else, i.e. such things have not been done, there are conversations, there are speeches, but there is a serious quarrel with russia, israel, at least in osobitaniya. is absolutely not ready at the moment, it seems, and there is no such thing at the moment, and here russia gets a good key to plant the west once again, that what she calls the table of change and selling this policy of hers is good, china, look, russia remains an active player in the middle east, and well, we must admit that it is so, but russia has taken exactly the place

where it was launched, especially after syria , when bashar al-assad was essentially forgiven, no one rushed to the ground operation , let's not forget how many pro-iranian forces are in syria, and israel was forced to work with russia there, because there was a certain agreement that we restrain, we hold the iranians somewhere away from you, and you are there especially, well, don't oppose us, and we will solve this question there, whether this situational ceasefire will be destroyed, or whether this syrian quay will change. in some other way, this is a question, but this is a question that must be answered in tel aviv, if, if hamas really has ties with russia and is supported by russia, then where are the appropriate actions against russia? thank you, mr. mykhailo, mykhailo yakubovych, the orientalist was in touch with us, and now we have a short break, after which vitaly portnikov will share with us

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, american weapons ended up in the hands of hamas. well, it turns out that hamas is on the wrong side received help, most likely, because, to be honest, i perceive the visit of these fellows to us, excuse me, words to moscow, as in principle a symptom of some kind of relationship, well , it is obvious that these are serious relationships, and it must be remembered that russia has had relations with hamas almost since the first days when hamas began to be an important political force in the territory. palestinian autonomy, and the maintenance of these relations was, i would say , a shock for israel as well, which was hoping for the isolation of hamas, when russia started these relations, it must be remembered that it was still a member of the group of eight, and the president of russia went to the meetings of the group of eight, and all of a sudden the representatives of kahassa started going to such a country, it was a serious blow to the palestinian authority, because it was in a completely hostile relationship with hamas and in fact hamas destroyed it, it was a civil

war, all fatah activists in the territory of the gas sector, and fatah destroyed many hamas activists in the territory of the west bank of the jordan river and mahmoud abaas, who had a special relationship with moscow, who in general, in my opinion an agent of the soviet special services of old, who wrote a dissertation about anti-semitic content under the guidance of the former, the future i have in charge. another such representative of such an anti-seminist mainstream in the russian leadership. they believed that they were supported by moscow, and israel hoped that mahmoud abbas would be perceived as a legitimate leader in russia, as in other countries, and mahmoud abaas relied on this. and, by and large, by and large . it turned out that russia is ready for

a completely alternative conversation, and russia is one of the few countries in the world, at least here of this european part, whose president met with the head of the hamas politburo , khaled mashal, these are generally isolated cases, and what is more interesting is that this president was not putin, that dmitry medvedev met with khaled mashal. and when we talk, what will change, nothing, no, a lot will change, that there will be a much more radical person who will be ready for much more serious actions, which putin cannot take yet, because medvideev has much more radical looks and we can see it on his telegram channel all over the place putin's knife, if we believe that medvedev is really putin's heir, one of the possible, all conditional arguments, regarding radicalization. which politicians, well, remember medvedev attacked georgia when he was

the president of russia, putin was very cautious until this moment about the possibility of real wars in the post-soviet space, and it is not known who pushed whom. medvedev met mashalli. medvedev is now clearly saying that western politicians are all idiots and you need to talk to them like that, this is a completely different political line from from a propaganda point of view, than the caution that putin still allows himself when he says: about his western colleagues there, why again medvedev is not just some minister of internal affairs there, he is the deputy chairman of the security council, he is a former prime minister, the former president, this is just an illustration, well, if we are talking about returning to hamas, then these contacts were there, they have always been, and it must be said right away that they intensified in connection with the strengthening of contacts between russia and iran, and in connection with the syrian war, but everything was very bad there too not easy because at some point... there was some serious problem like this between

all these sworn friends when hamas decided that they could take over a whole state that would receive them and they tried not to join the syrian opposition and try to take over in damascus and overthrow the bashar regime, and how strange it sounds that hamas was one of the leading forces in syria supported by the west, and russia and iran did everything possible to keep the regime of bashar al-assad. and we must also remember that hamas. muslim a sunni organization, bashar al-assad expelled the majority of the sunni population from syria, and these are also such serious things, that is, there was a certain cooling, for a short time, the hamasites fled to qatar, by the way, this is not a new story, and so the arabs have been fooling themselves all the time

for their support palestinian movement. yasira rafakov, the head of the palestine organization and the leader of fatho, he already tried to seize power in jordan, and about the inhumane actions of israel in the gas sector, participants in pro-palestinian demonstrations, but those demonstrations when king hussein's tanks drove on the bodies of his palestinian brothers, without saying that somewhere around 40% of the population of jordan itself are palestinian arabs , no one held any demonstrations, you know, anything is possible between arabs, well, that's how they tried to seize power when king hussein took them from jordan extradited to lebanon, joined the muslim sunni groups that fought, competed for power in lebanon and destroyed lebanon, it simply does not exist, the territory called the lebanese state is not really a state,

and the third in line was syria, but from syria putin and the ayatollah drove the hamas activists away, it is known by whom, at what cost. and after that, as they were already somehow rooted in qatar, a new stage of mutual understanding began. they were close to each other again. what is important here is not even the fact that the hamas delegation led by abu marzouk was in moscow, but the fact that they immediately invited the deputy minister of foreign affairs of iran there. and there was a meeting, an officially announced meeting, at the iranian embassy in moscow, that is. this deputy foreign minister of iran, obviously talked with the hamasites, about how to prepare new fronts and so on and so forth, i remembered when i read about this meeting, as in this very embassy, ​​there many years

ago, another deputy foreign minister irano told me that our arrival in moscow. these are the first steps for iran to play such a role in the region, the scale of which you cannot even imagine, i was looking at it and thinking, how do they want to achieve such a scale? well, now i know, now i don't have any questions, no, you know, i couldn't, i could to imagine such an iran, when i met with this iranian diplomat, i could not fully imagine such a russia, yes, it was a problem, you know, for everything, everything requires its own conditions. and i saw that if russia changed, it did this, then of course iran had huge chances , and this tripartite meeting is the real news of evil, and president biden is talking about it, they do not hide it, because now for they really have a wonderful situation,

the situation is connected with the fact that by and large, by and large, indeed, we we see the abyss. in the relationship between the west and the global east, they manage to change meanings, and this is dangerous. that is, how to change the meaning? here you spoke about the fact that you are concerned about the suffering of the civilian population of ukraine. and the gazans do not care about the suffering of the civilian population. this is erdogan today. and what about the civilian population of israel? and we don't see it. ugh. not easy. we don’t see it, it’s as if it doesn’t happen, it doesn’t exist for us, and from this very moment we begin to perceive reality, you understand, like people who justify russian aggression against ukraine, they say, yes, ukraine itself bombed donbas, well, what were they killing there, children, women, here

you go, but you don’t see it as this reality, but start from the moment of putin’s offensive, that is, everything is completely cynical, if you think, they don’t know , they know what they are doing, and russia wants to use it, now we will see how this meeting will go in malta, yes, because there are also representatives of the global south, they will definitely be there, if not loudly, then at least in the background to talk about it, but what is it that you ukrainians want, so that we sympathize with you about your civilians, but you do not sympathize with the civilians of gaza, how did you get this organization of the united nations, and israel will say, and how did you get, and you can find out how you got, in you have been attacked by russia, terrorists are killing your citizens, and you say that we will not stop hostilities until we liberate our territory, and we that we want to carry out an operation to destroy a terrorist organization, and you refrain, so

you really do not want to stop hostilities, so stop in yourself, well, that’s the way it is, that is, we find ourselves here between two such fires, and everyone is logical in their support in their worldview, and this, as you understand, is something that is absolutely in russia’s hands, that is, any step we take is already not... safe from the point of view of further relations with various partners, ugh, i'm a little jealous of my colleagues who had the opportunity to work with you in the saturday political club for the last few issues, because i really wanted to to ask you a question, what do you think, the project of the state of palestine, he, now stopped for some indefinite period, or on the contrary, the world is one step closer to its realization, because there is both one and another view of this saturated situation, someone believes that what is happening now and what hamas is demonstrating, and what

a large number the palestinians in the gas sector, voted for it again at the time, yes, in 2006, well, yes, but the fact, it's a fact, uh, it demonstrates that, well, it's unlikely, it's unlikely that the state of palestine can exist under, the current conditions, on the other hand, if israel now successfully conducts its ground operation in gas sector and will be able to clean up this terrorist... core, then the palestinians will have a possible breath of fresh air, which they will take advantage of. what do you think? i don't really understand what a breath of fresh air is. as soon as some palestinian organization starts negotiations with israel and talks about the need to create a state in the territories, some of the pre-1967 borders, it immediately loses popularity in palestinian society. because by and large this platform, which. now supported by hamas

and the fad organization, which is the core of the palestinian national administration and the center of the organization of the liberation of palestine, followed, and as soon as this organization began to claim not everything, but wants at least a part, it turned out that it is popular among the population, who do not enjoy palestinian autonomy, and there are two other important factors that we need to be aware of. and the first factor is that there is a huge number of the population of the gas sector, which lives on this narrow strip, and it is not radicalized by its very life, this hard life, as you see, all the money that was given there by the united nations and the refugee agency, other organizations, all this money that was given by sponsors, all, this money... which israel created the opportunity to work in its territory , further, they are all spent on terror

by and large, and why? why do you think people have become so radicalized, yes, why do they spend all this money on terror, and not on the development of their territory where they live, because they believe that this territory is not everything, well absolutely, necessary expand your horizons, and hamas is a tool, you need and you need a dream, a dream is the whole territory. palestine, all of it, sooner or later it will be ours, why do we need to spend all this money on this, well , well, we will spend this money, well, let's build good safe places here, and that our children will not always stay here, let us suffer , and the children will live in tel aviv and in haifa, in jewish homes, without jews, now another point is the west bank of the jordan river, where sentiments have also been radicalized in recent years and not without the participation of far-right political forces and ugh, and this is also something that has always been warned about, that if there is a settlement policy, if it becomes more aggressive, then of course the confrontation

between these two, strata of the population, as they say in israel, sectors, the israeli sector, the settler sector and the arab sector, it is increasing , so if elections are held there, i think hamas will win again, and if it is not hamas, then some other will win? radical organization, and again, which will be the first the point in the program of this organization is that the state should be created on the entire territory of palestine, because israel is a colonial organization, this is what the organization said today, you tudoghan, what are you doing here, you are the occupiers here yes, europe to you, it's all your fault, and we don't owe you anything, it's not true, turkey. carried out enough actions during the time of the founder of the turkish republic, mustafa kemal astaturka, which led to the virtual

disappearance of the jewish population from the territory of modern turkey, this is also ... a reality, if erdogan thinks that he is not responsible for it answers, this is his holy right, it is obvious that there were no such pogroms that would remind of the holocaust on the territory of turkey, but there was a crowding out of the entire ethnic population, this was atatürk's idea that after the collapse of the ottoman empire, where could there be muslims , orthodox, jews, greeks, armenians, ottomans. another absolute state should be created, the turkish republic with turks, all non-turks have territories to leave, the concept of creating a nation state, the concept of creating a nation state by reducing non-national population, because the pre-turkic word turk was more of an insult than a name of nationality, people who were turkish muslims

were called ottomans, the word turks did not exist. well, this is also a reality, again, this is not a question, no, i will not present all these accounts to erdogan now, because we will immediately start to mention in general about the national foundations on which the turkish republic was created, what he said today erdoğan, he would rather not speak, because this again, this may be for the crowd, he said: palestine 100 years ago was for us like adana an impressive comparison, you know how it looked 100 years ago adanasky 95% of the inhabitants of this city, who made up , in your opinion, share with us, armenians, 95% of the population of adana, it was then cilicia, the cilicia region, there it was called

the republic of cilicia , it was then controlled 100 years ago by france, uh, and all... 95% of the population of this entire region with these famous cities of mersin, adaana, what else was there, in this region, well, many of these cities of this cilicia, i will not now just remember all this, tarsus, this hometown apostle paul, he was clearly not an ottoman, so between us, saying, well, it's like that, but to armenians too, so 95% of the population of the entire region was armenians. now 95 or 97% of this region, the people in it happens that it is not difficult to see, are made up of ethnic turks, how did this happen? i don't want to ask erdogan this question, he will be offended, well, this is the reality, the expulsion or destruction of the population, there may be an expulsion, we know there that three

months ago, 95% of the population of karabakh was armenians, now there are zero. armenians, well, through for some time there will be 95% of azerbaijanis, again, we remember, there was also a common , common life of armenians and azerbaijanis in the region and where azerbaijanis were expelled from, that 's all, sad pages, we don't even talk about that, but in cilicia it was like that, there were no turks there, then they appeared , okay, so 100 years ago, of course, palestine was also under the ottoman empire, there were no turks and there were no ottomans, and it was part of the ottoman empire, there were no turks there , that 's how it sometimes happens, there it was possible to evict the population, ugh, and there it was not successful, here it is misfortune, well, not everyone can be expelled, even if you are an ottoman politician , well, sometimes someone remains, it is unpleasant to talk about it , so joking joking means what are

the possibilities for the creation of a palestinian state, i honestly believe that every year not a solution to this problem, he selects such an opportunity that is a solution to this problem? i think that after the oslo agreements, if the palestinian national administration would have followed the path of creating a national state, rather than fighting israel and not, putting forward additional conditions and not trying to translate... the conversation into the reality of the need to return refugees who are in palestinian refugee camps in arab states in 1948 on the territory of israel itself, if the idea was to create one's own state, and not to destroy another, then the state would have long been was created because then there were all favorable conditions for its creation, this is one moment, another moment, this is that by and large