state, i honestly believe that every year is not a solution to this problem, it selects such opportunities that are a solution to this problem? i think that after the oslo agreements, if the palestinian national administration would follow the path of creating a national state, rather than fighting israel and not, putting forward additional conditions and not, i will try to turn the conversation into the reality of the need to return the refugees who are in palestinian refugee camps in arab states in 1948 on the territory of israel itself, if there was still an idea to create own state, and not to destroy another, then the state would have been created a long time ago, because then there were all the favorable conditions for its creation, this is one moment, another moment, it is that by and large ... this state, at that time, had much

better logistical conditions for existence than now, because israel, i am not going to say that this is good, but israel all these years, is following the policy of absolute facts, because the borders are not defined, now we are talking about 67 -th year, and then another year will appear, and in the end the question will arise, how much is this state in general viable, which at the time when this was signed... it was viable , and they said, how come it is divided between the west bank of the jordan river and gaza, and between it israel, and we are not saying that azerbaijan is not viable, between it and nakhichnya there is armenia, azerbaijan says we need a corridor, well, since there are difficult relations with armenia, it is not easy to build this corridor there, well, there they say now, through iran, but no one believes that if one part of azerbaijan is located there, and another

here, then it is not no... speaks of the non-viability of the state, the non -viability of the state is not when its two parts are completely unrelated, this sometimes happens in international law, this is also the consequences of the empire, because how did it happen , and with azerbaijan from a possible palestinian state, these are all the consequences of the empire, but it can exist if there is a desire for it to exist, if we still set ourselves the task of eliminating this state that exists, that already exists. which has some capabilities and strength to protect itself, this a huge problem, of course there are no, so far, no even sketches of how it will all develop, because i, too, i still believe that it is not about hamas, it is about the palestinian street, about this idea that israel sooner or later will disappear somewhere by itself.

and there is a misunderstanding again of the mood in the united states, that's what we talked about with igor eisenberg, that the arab world believes that the whole problem lies with the jewish organizations in the united states of america, the jewish organizations of the united states of america, of course, have great authority in american society. and they, these are 6 million voters, there are six, less voters, but these are 6 million people who live in the united states, this is a large number, but it is absolutely certain that these are all primarily liberal people with liberal views, people who, even in a religious sense do not adhere to that orthodox yidism, which is essentially part of the state, and these are the people who are associated with reform judaism, in israel, if you invest.

aravin, it won't be valid, yes, well, it's simple, so, by and large, the jewish organizations of the united states have long would be ready for much more, serious concessions to the palestinian arabs than the israelis themselves, they are not lobbying for some harsh israeli policy, they are lobbying for the preservation of the state of israel, but there is another part of the voters, who are more than the american jews, who are ten... million and which is the guarantor of the political authority of the republican party of the united states. these are evangelists. those who consider the issue of preserving the state of israel to be a matter of preserving their faith, because the messiah is coming, he must come to the jewish state. and you have to understand what is it for republicans to refuse to support these people, suicide, suicide, what is it for democrats to refuse to support jewish communities.

this is such a political part, and these people, these evangelists, they are not jews, they are decent christians , not of jewish origin, but they will always vote for those, then they will provide all the support of the state of israel, they believe that they pay taxes for this, because they want to save themselves, you see, it's the same, the same ideology that radical muslims have, they want to save themselves, to go to heaven with the hurrians, and evangelical christians want to be saved, they know that if israel is destroyed, they will not be saved there after death, in fact , the palestinian arabs want to save them, their children, their grandchildren, everyone, never in their lives. they will not miss their chance, and these are people from whom tens of millions, many with millions of fortunes, you see what started with american universities, they can completely calmly change even the very nature of education

in the united states, just not give money and that's all, so this is a serious problem, very serious, and the arab world does not see this problem, the arab world usually fights with... the jews, and now it is the non-jews who oppose it, that's what i want to explain to you, the non-jews, the main opponent of the arab world, we can step back and see how they are going to solve their problems with the evangelical christians, uh, the united states and the world, with pleasure, it's just amazing, by the way, in these decades, i would say, such a force was formed in protestantism, if it... but there were 200 years ago, there has long been a jewish state inhabited by evangelical christians , but this is such a religious phenomenon that few people think about, well, you yourself see it on the streets of ukraine, these people just come, they are missionaries, they distribute there

some pieces of paper, there are jews for jesus, they were with me once i was at a charity concert in kyiv , which was organized by representatives of these evangelical churches, which are ukrainians, and people came up to me to touch me, and said, you can we will beat you we see that you are jews, we see that you are jews, and i was naturally in such a state of shock, well , if people have such faith, how can it be broken, this is such a special story, and this is also such a moment, and so this means that these people still need to think about creating a palestinian state in the neighborhood of israel, and not instead, but so far there is no such sentiment on the palestinian streets, and those palestinian politicians who would like it, they have been marginalized, yasir arafat signed the agreements in oslo, despite everything

the antipathy i have for this man, who has broken a million times all the promises he made, i think that yasser arafat basically wanted to create a palestinian state, but he was a man, you know, he was like that, he became the head of the palestinian authority , he came... there in ramallah, and he suddenly saw that no one supported this idea, that he risked being isolated from his own people, of which he was the undisputed leader, and that other leaders were emerging, such as sheikh ahmed yassin , who say, what are you, and what can to be a palestinian state without all the territory, and he followed the lead of the palestinian street, that is, he made the mistake that the founder of israel , david bengorion, did not make, because it was exactly the same story when the first plan emerged in the late 1930s partition of palestine, the leadership of the zionist organizations of israel discussed it, goldemey shouted, no, why not, no, no, no, only in the entire

territory of biblical palestine, only, or no state, we do not need a state that will not be in this territory, and david bengolyon i said, goldie, can you calm down girls? we will create a state, and we will deal with everything, and only thanks to the fact that bengurion went against the jewish street , the state of israel appeared, and goldemer and other politicians more, as always happens with politicians, they wanted to go behind the street, and when in a person follows the street , as we have already noticed from the ukrainian political experience of recent years, inevitably meets with a disaster, one cannot follow the street, the street does not exist to make strategic political decisions, people act emotionally, they don't understand the consequences of their actions, a politician exists to understand the risks, uh, to understand the strategy, if there is dislike for it, dislike, if blissir arafat created

a state, he would be now, the most respected, well, he remains respected, but he would go down in history as a real person who made it possible...' for a palestinian arab to create his own real arab to create his own national asylum, but nothing happened, you know, i thought about it, i remember "i remember that when there was..." albanians from kosova milosevic, the president of this self-proclaimed kosovo, dr. ibrahim rugova, he went to belgrade, i was just stunned by what he did, he went to belgrade to talk to slobodan milosevic, how can you go to belgrade like that. and then i realized that he considered it his duty to prevent milosevic

from evicting his own countrymen , he believed that this was more important than his reputation, he at least tried and the west saw it, that the leader of kosovo always called for violent resistance, went to belgrade, did not fear for his safety, for his life, tried to explain something to milošovych, to agree on something with him, but milošovych did not agree with him, and then the special operation began too. rogovo has already returned to pristina, which was liberated from the serbs, from serbian troops, as the real president of the already existing state. that is, a person, if he thinks about the future of his people, he commits an unpopular act, if he thinks only about how to please people who can vote for him or simply be him. on this street, it is usually

is wrong, well, according to your logic, society as a whole, well, almost always, leans exclusively towards such populist opinions, during the reign of charles de gaulle, we always forget about this, trying to do everything possible for charles de gaulle to save algeria, because algeria - this is france, the whole idea of ​​returning general dogol to power in france when he was elected head of the french government, first, then president of ukraine, that he will definitely be able to save algeria, and president degol began negotiations with the leadership of the national liberation front of algeria and agreed about the independence of algeria, it was exactly the opposite of what i expected from him, by and large, mr. vitaly, i apologize, maybe i am doing something wrong now, but to me everything you say translates to our ukrainian experience e. a little, well, we talked with you, we always translate something from our past, but

in politics there are no direct parallels, what what, what, what do you want to translate to the ukrainian experience, and is it possible, is it possible for our political leadership to agree with the russian occupation of some of our territories for the sake of that in order to preserve the ukrainian state in the concept of yours, this is a good question of provocation. they don't ask it to colleagues, they ask it to politicians, but i will answer you, in order for there to be an opportunity to discuss such a thing, we need the russian political leadership to want to retain control exclusively over the occupied territories, and this was the hope of the west , as you remember, the west kept saying: we are giving you weapons and offensive capabilities so that you liberate as much of your territory as possible. and in this situation you could spend

the negotiations with the russian federation are in a strong position, and no one has said how many territories and in what time to liberate , the formula is as follows, you liberate some territories, the russians understand that they cannot go anywhere further, they are talking with you about peace, the moment has come, when the russians want to talk about something in general, i don’t see this moment , i see, under avdiivka, i see the russians’ idea of ​​a many-year war, so i think that we should not think about whether the ukrainian leadership is ready for any negotiations on the condition that in general, it is possible, but if necessary, the question is different, and russia is generally ready to agree to the existence of the ukrainian state, well, when it is ready to agree, we will be able to talk about it, in general, in war, let's agree with another, there are three ways out of war: trip , victory, truce, defeat.

victory is when hostilities end on the victor's terms, the way world war i and world war ii ended, where representatives of the german leadership were invited to some wagons there or to some houses there, twice, and told them to sign here, either please, it's here, you don't even have to... read, just subscribe here, but at this moment germany was actually paralyzed as a state, twice, once. it was clear that the allied troops could reach its capital, another time they were in the capital of germany. and if ukrainian troops are in moscow, then we can talk about such a victory. if we consider victory from the liberation of our

territory, without the fact that any changes will take place in russia itself, that we are not fighting on the territory of russia itself. ago. we still have the winning formula to go to the armistice formula, because this is an armistice, we have liberated our territory , even all of it, and we agree with the aggressor state that the aggressor state does not carry out military actions in this territory, but about our governors on its territory we don't even say it, it won't be discussed, because it doesn't exist, and we can't strike there with our weapons and the weapons of our allies, and our leadership clearly says that there will be no military operations on the territory of the russian federation, and there is a military doctrine of the russian federation that the application nuclear weapons, there are a lot of things, although i am not very i understand how the liberation of crimea differs from military operations in the bryansk region, but less so. why? because from the point of view of the constitution of russia, both this and that are russia. i don’t understand why for the constitution of russia, what is happening today in zaporizhzhia, no, in kherson oblast, that’s right, that’s why i

believe that it is to some extent schizophrenia, from the point of view of the russians, not from our point of view, from the point of view but we live in a state of schizophrenia, forced to grope for this red line, actually at random. but this is us let's move on to the question that we are actually negotiating a truce and further, after this truce begins, either on the way to nato and the european union, or on the way to a new war, which will take place after russia considers that it has had enough resources to win back those territories that are in its constitution. and more, and i do not think that this is a negative scenario, because the negative scenario is a defeat, it is when a peace agreement is concluded on the terms of the russian federation, those terms that we all know well, in the territorial realities, to officially recognize where

militarization, denazification, neutral status, all that bullshit, and that's all, basically what we were at last february march . that is, now we have to ask ourselves what the armed forces of ukraine actually ensured during these 20 months, they ensured that the option of defeat does not exist in our political vocabulary, that we have an actual choice between victory and a truce, and again still from the point of view of real political, real political terms, we call victory. because we simply look at things more optimistically, and the russians they call their victory, our defeat, for the russians the victory is not an armistice, but the defeat of ukraine, its disappearance, and for us the victory is that the russians do not approach us, this is a different vision of victory, and that is why we come to

the point what are we getting to, now the most important question is whether the ukrainian leadership... can accept the fact that our territories are under the control of russia, from the point of view of international law, i assure you, this will never happen, simply never, and therefore no good relations we will never have it with the russian federation either, simple it will never be, this must also be understood, but... the question of where the actual border of ukraine will be will depend on the military results at the moment when the conditions for peace negotiations are ripe, this must also be told to the people, because this is a reality, if we release

that's all, well, then on the territory, then on the state border of ukraine, there will be a line of confrontation and a line of demarcation, if we do not liberate everything, then where the line will pass at the moment... a confrontation at the moment when the conditions for cessation of hostilities on both sides. when it will happen next year, on the 25th, 26th, 27th, 28th, 29th, 30th, or 31st, no one knows today, but in principle i believe that in any case next year, the conditions for , so that the war goes to the level of a low-intensity war. on both sides, if not next year until the 25th, and then it will be time for a low-intensity war, and the troops , the low-intensity war will definitely end at some point in peace negotiations on the line on which the troops will stand, it cannot be resumed by another explosion , war

of low intensity, it can resume with a new explosion, but for this the parties will need a sufficient number of weapons, accumulate, accumulate, and a low-intensity war is usually characterized by the fact that the parties do not so much accumulate weapons as use them up, but if there are peace and no security guarantees. if peace is concluded, and ukraine does not receive a guarantee of security, then of course, in 3-4 years there will be a war, do not even doubt it, and why not, bare in the russian heads, they can no, if there is such a russia as it is, then nothing will change in the heads of russians, but you know that, this is not a political forecast anymore, but futurology, a lot can change in russia, a lot can change in the world. can ukraine join nato or become a partner of the united states like qatar or israel? when the russians will understand that they will have a direct conflict with

the west. maybe many new formulas will be found, especially since you don't forget that all this time there will be new big military conflicts. this is also absolutely normal state of things for the next decades, because this is a real civilizational struggle. she is simple. it will not end like this, and ukraine , you know, is still lucky that it became the first stage for such a struggle, when there are still enough resources for education, when there are enough resources, when there is no such, i would say, harsh situation, because ukraine is by and large such czechoslovakia during the second world war, we don’t even have poland yet, and then there will be, it’s going for build-up, rigidity, ready to fight, civilizational clashes, the use of modern arsenals, this

everything will be very dramatic, but ukraine in this situation can already recede into the third plane and be just such a smoldering conflict, which will not even interest us very much, because we will look in horror at some world cataclysms and think , won't they affect us, it may be so, this is also futurology, but it may be so and it is more objective and development. events than that everything will be concentrated here, it won't be here, just here it was, you know, like the starting gun went off, and everyone ran, and now the question is who is not what, who is going to finish to the finish line, and who will make it to the finish line alive , yes, mr. vitaly, there is very little time left, we are talking about real facts in this program, and the real fact is the fact of the appearance, which is very controversial. and the unsubstantiated information that putin may be dead, just now, i knew, i knew that you would react like that, i am not asking you about

the essence of this information, i am not asking, i am asking who it is aimed at this information and for what, let's go, i still want to resort to classic political forms again, thank you the president in any country, especially in an authoritarian country, is the arbiter of the interests of its political forces and clans that are around him, it is such a circle in the center of which he is, he is a balancer, if a person is not able to be a balancer, he dies. i am politically, how viktor fedorovych died, yanukovych, we saw it, how it looked. at the time, there were rumors that putin had 145 doppelgangers, and these rumors were even confirmed by various intelligence agencies. i could take it ironically, because i generally think that it does not matter who

cuts the ribbon, it matters who makes the decision, even if a person lies under a drip, but makes a decision and is a center of stability for all his associates, opposing associates, then he can at least send poodles to open some power plant instead of himself, but for sure, by the way, not at a meeting with the head of the chinese people's republic, no head of the chinese...' people's republic will meet with a warlock, believe me, it just won't happen, i'll just say, you know, send patrushov better than this me shame on you, but now it's x-time, when these people who developed this strange operation with putin's doubles, with goals that are not clear to me yet, maybe it's just a propaganda game, maybe it's a financial game, i don't know, i, i it's hard to say, i'm familiar with... valery solovya from the late 80s and early 90s, he changed roles several times in my memory, became the antithesis of what he was before that, and i don't know which the role he

is playing now. for me, it's just all the nightingales i know, they're different people from a point of view, me saw solovya, who was an expert on far-right movements and a liberal professor , saw solovya, who was a leader of far-right movements and a conservative professor, saw solovya, who supported the aggressive actions of the russian federation, saw who challenged the aggressive actions of the russian federation, that it 's a person really, i said so, i guess we'll never know, well at least not until the archives, archives, archives of certain services are opened, but for me. one thing is clear that this, they officially announced the death of putin, and that his body is lying in the refrigerator, on valdai, in the refrigerator for products, as they say, where vegetables were previously stored by putin, because it turns out that there are no other refrigerators in valdai, except for refrigerators for vegetables and fruits, well, so putin lived on a large scale, but, excuse me, there is not even a morgue in the residence of the president of russia, well, there is none, why does he need a morgue,

he needs to have wine. cold, from the point of view of political theory and practice, a doppelganger still cannot rule the country, so there is, or this doppelganger will disappear in a few weeks, well, a few at most months, and then the death of vladimir vladimirovich putin, the president of the russian federation, will be officially announced, and everyone will have to decide to the extent of their intellectual depravity who really died, putin or and who is putin hiding from the refrigerator, navaldai, or after all, a double who will replace putin in the grave , if nothing happens, putin will travel around the world as usual, and they will say that it is all a double, the political leadership is in charge , so it will be a different story, a story that should convince, so to speak consumers of these information products is that the real power and financial flow.

in the hands of not putin, but let's say those who organize this whole story, let's say mykola platonovich patrushev, whose ear sticks out very much behind all this, it is explained there, this is patrushev, this patrushev organizes everything, he conducts negotiations, he creates a coalition, maybe this is just such a story to convince others that all money should be carried in envelopes, or to the office of patrushev the elder, or if it is not possible to get there, then to the cabinet of the patrusha junior minister of russian agricultural policy. that's basically all, it's a simple formula, now that they've already said, that's it, putin disappeared, died, now the meaning of this whole amazing special operation will be clear very quickly, because if these people are convinced that putin's double can rule for 10 years , and then the mayor suffered a stroke and made a new double, and the double will rule until 2045, is it possible that the russians

will finally suspect something, i’m not sure, you know, there was koro... butano, whose death was hidden for 54 years, which no one suspects anything, what is the difference, my lord, i beg you, well, it’s just putin and putin, like in the last series by isaac asimov, the foundation, there is generally a cloned dynasty of emperors, 500 years, one emperor, everyone is satisfied , well, who is not happy here , so that's all, i'm sorry that i touched this topic, it's good, but this, well this, well, i, i'm not, i'm ready to comment on the cartoon. kritina, but unfortunately we don't have time, so i would like to thank khrystyna yatskiva for these pleasant few minutes the last thanks, i actually liked the previous ones too. we thank vitaly portnikov for this saturday political club. all the best, until new meetings, good luck.

14:00 in ukraine, greetings to all viewers of the tv channel, in the studio of iryna kovaly, for your attention, a news release. ukrainian troops continue to advance in the direction of melitopol. our fighters destroyed 25 units of enemy equipment, including eight tanks, three armored vehicles. cars, 10 drones, four cars. also, the armed forces of ukraine burned five warehouses of russian ammunition, oleksandr ternavskyi, commander of tavria's troop group, said. during the day , ukrainian soldiers eliminated 489 occupiers. another 13 invaders surrendered. four policemen were injured due to russian shelling in donetsk region, the enemy hit the front-line siversk with artillery. one of

the shells exploded near the police crew.