[000:00:00;00] ivan and so on, the film is extremely interesting, especially, i noticed it on thursday, because there was a premiere, well, one of the first screenings, and the whole hall was completely packed with different people, fashionable bloggers came, because the topic was the history of the ukrainian sixties, acquired of the new wave of popularity after the full-scale invasion, well, actually a lot of people were just incredibly admiring of ms. marta , who came to this screening and she is a real movie star, she knows how to hold her own, she is extremely beautiful, she is a very beautiful and elegant woman, intelligent, and everyone in the hall was simply shocked by this, they showered her with incredible compliments, in a word, this film is extremely interesting, but it was never released, well, on thursday you could watch some screenings there, and then the distributors and producers announced, i

quote, the release of the film is postponed due to unresolved issues of the state cinema producers. the new release date is currently unknown. purchased tickets can be returned by contacting the cinema where you bought them. i recorded an interview with serhii bukovsky, right now you will be able to watch it, and there he talks in particular about state cinema. we don't know what happened to this rental in general, maybe there really are some problems with the documents, but on the other hand, now the film community has entered into an even greater confrontation with the management of the state cinema, the community, a large part of it demands the resignation of the head of the state cinema maryna kudarchuk, and the same serhii bukovsky is also demanding the same, but the other day he signed an open letter to the prime minister, which was written by representatives of the film industry, they demand his release, the head of the state cinema and her deputy, yulia shevchuk, demand not to consider the strategy for the development of cinema that they wrote, and in the end, such

a struggle has now begun with new force, and since serhiy bukovsky is one of those who are opposed to the state cinema, perhaps some sanctions from this agency, as well as putting sticks in the wheels, we do not know that, we are waiting for comments from the producers, for broader comments, for comments from the state agency on film issues, and for now i offer you this conversation with serhiy bukovsky, actually in it he tells, and what is wrong with perskino of ukraine. i once told ivan mykhailovych that our film will be called ivan and marta. he smiled, as always restrained, and then answered: maybe marta and ivan would be better , he says: come, there will be handsome guys from kyiv, but i also somehow tell her that i need guys from kyiv, i have more here than i have to, i say,

i don't need guys from kyiv at all. from what i understand, the film was heavily modified, from the beginning, yes, when you started shooting it, all the way to the final version, and tell me when you were already on the installation, yes, where actually, well, the story itself is created , yes, well, it was, well, last year, and during the air alarms, we already reduced the sound during the blackout to the phonogram of the generator, because there was no light, and somehow i... somehow, in the end, everything ended, thank god, i understand that the film was already different during editing, you saw that it was not at all the way you imagined it, tell me about this difference, what happened at the beginning, when you just started shooting, let it not be an idea, but you started shooting already during editing, and as a result, what the audience will see what the difference is, well, it so often happens in documentaries that you have one idea, then the film

takes you somewhere completely, well, no... the other way, but something changes, this is why i love documentaries, that there is no concrete scenario here, and this is such an improvisation, but we still tried to hold this improvisation in our hands and not let it go, so as not to turn everything into chaos, no, it's quite normal, you don't have to be a hostage to your idea, you have to to let yourself go, because life is much more interesting, richer, and therefore... well, we waited a long, long, long time until we received some, albeit small, but financial support for this project, and when we were thinking about it, of course, the main character was dzyuba, ivan mykhailovych, but on that the time when everything had already happened, and already the motor-camera, as they say, and he also got tired very quickly, and and and marta

asked him not to... torture him too much, because he, by the way, marta volodymyrivna was absolutely right that he did not really want this film, he is a very modest person, and for him, well, this is not his time. horses to be a public person there, he was working a lot at that time, we dreamed, but it didn’t happen, unfortunately, to film such a storyline, which we had written even in our synopsis script, how they work together with mrs. marta, when he was writing something, some kind of article or a book, the two of them sat and she listened, he read something, they read something, it was like this - very often such a comical situation, as the wife sits and listens, and what the husband wrote, and they argued a lot, significantly, well , what was removed, was removed,

and there are many such - internal things, family moments, which i simply cannot tell, they are already like that, and the moments are closed to the viewer, well, that’s how it happens in documentary cinema, it’s not a game movie, that’s why, that’s why we put everything on marta’s shoulders, of course, and ivan there appears in the climax, and at the beginning of the film, as we said, we say, we put him to sleep, at the end of the film he appeared, woke up, came to the guests, well, that's how it is, to put it very simply, and that final his monologue about good and evil, good in the world after all is more than... evil, yes, even though it is difficult it is possible to believe, and although it is not visible, but it is so, because otherwise, otherwise life

would not exist at all, if it did not exist, this is the very first shooting, even when it was not, even in our conception, to make a film about ivan dzyub, it was that long-ago project where we filmed people, and the sixties, in particular, and from there we took a small piece that went into the finale of the film, it is, after all, about the good in the world more than the evil, otherwise the world would not exist, so what, well, i believe that this happens very often in the cinema, and we also changed a little, the accents, they changed and changed the topic, and the movie turned out not to be about the drama of a dissident, it turned out to be about people's relationships, about love, it turned out to be about tender relationships

that they brought, through all their lives, the guardian angel of march dzyub, this film, by the way, i liked it, because he is not stereotypical, that is, everyone expects, most people, that when the sixties will start now... about heroism, and not about some other squeamishness and about romance, well, they just lived, they were very talented, all people, and they were very honest, people with a conscience, and they did not think that they were heroes, this is martha absolutely right, i wasn’t a hero, and i didn’t want to be a hero, that’s how they lived, and very often a hero, well, it’s more about feature films when they shoot someone, especially now the trend is when they make feature films about people who are still alive, these people don’t like movies, they say there margaret thatcher didn't like the movie about her, in the documentary, maybe it's a little easier, i don't know, but they still often complain, or after watching it, i understand that it's scary

to show your characters an already edited movie, and what mrs. marta said when she watched this tape for the first time and whether she asked to cut something out or not to take something, you were at the court, she was, she even wore a special black suit to look elegant at the court, the film was shown for the first time on festival somewhere, it was the closing film, and there, unfortunately, there was an air storm , but people left the hall, then came back in and the film was still shown, and mart volodymyrivna saw a movie there for the first time, well, i wasn’t there ukraine at that time, that's why i just know, it's already... marta and i talked and my friends told me what marta said to the stage, there is a lot, well there is, and here i said marta , well, i know this topic of marta volodymyrivna, why there is so

little ivan mykhailovych, and that is, all her critical thoughts and remarks related to exactly that proportion of her and her husband on the movie screen, well, it seemed to me that this and that was all. that's all she said, yes, but she told me now, we were saying goodbye, and she said, you know, the movie that was back then in october and the movie that was in the ukrainian house today are... two different movies, such a perception happens, to me in general it seemed that it was a movie, well, when i went, i thought that it would be a movie about a woman , or rather, about a man because of the stories of his wife, but after watching it, it seemed to me that it was not so, that it was actually a movie about her, because she was there as a full-fledged heroine, and they all turned out as a couple for you, although mr. ivan is less there, in general, for you, well, at the end already... in the final result, what

is this story about, and it is exactly not about this pathos, yes, not about heroism, but about what, what are the main messages in it, well, i think, this a story about tenderness, about wisdom, about the incredible friendship of two people, and about honesty, and about the fact that people, despite all the trials, they remain people, and about intelligence, i would say the key word, intel, they are incredibly intelligent people , and here it's just like that, when you're with them, i remember well that ivan too, when he was alive, well, it 's just something, some kind, it's such an incredible ukrainian intelligentsia, with such a breed, with such and such... . roots, although ivan, such

a guy from donbas, she is halychenka, she set the tone for the family, and their family, of course, it’s about that, i think so, but you once filmed when you talked with, well , not only with mr. ivan, mr. mrs. marteryu, you also talked with other people, and besides , you filmed about the sixties, do you think that it was the most difficult test for them, because we , too, from the point of view of such a distance, somehow often cannot understand it, because everything is lost in pathos, but in fact, maybe it was some kind of non-obvious things, maybe everyday things? i think that the arrest of ivan is definitely the case, because i understand very well, marta, that y ivan mykhailovych had tuberculosis, and she absolutely knew and understood that if he was sent to the camps, he, he

would not survive, and she told me this many times, she said this very delicately in the film, but she knew he had to be saved, and she saved him all his life, he had heart attacks, and whatever he didn't have, she kept taking him to the doctors, to the doctors, to the doctors, and uh, i think that the most terrible moment was definitely the moment of arrest, she went there... they went as if to work in the kgb, to the prosecutors for fedorchuk, and she was very every time she dressed very nicely, she was dressed simply elegantly, one could say so, and in order to impress these investigators, caddyists , officers, well, you see, so many years have passed, she spoke about them very tolerantly even today on the stage, they were people of the system, but they nothing, they were not angry.

well, the banality of evil, yes, yes, they, it was their work, yes, by the way, this is what you said in the trailer, which is very memorable, when she said that she made herself a suit for the court, a suit, i love very much, and he is very revealing, i am i don't want to say that it's only for women, of course, because it's for women, for men, but now how many compliments have been received by mrs. marty, she really looks, well, just extraordinary, and you have her in the frame at all. as a superstar, she's a very dignified, incredibly dignified person, so what's the point, how did that dress look on you , in general, the clothes and this dignified look that, what it gave, a sense of self -worth in front of these, i think, i think , yes, i think so, but i see photos from when lviv was polish, parents, from there, lviv in the 39th year, and so it seems to me, i just remember how

her parents were dressed, how the public was dressed just on the streets, i, they are, we have these photos, we just could not use everything , i think it comes from there, from these memories, this is how her parents, both mother and father, dressed, this culture comes from there, she still is, she once came to and i came to the shooting already in kyiv, not at the dacha and she was so elegantly dressed, i say, listen to mrs. marta, what a holiday some day today, well, how did i come to meet with director, well, that’s typical, mrs. marta, yes, she’s very cool, and i, well, i’ve watched probably all of your films and in every one, well , probably except for the live ones, your characters joke, and they joke, as it seems to me, as you need, because you have it in the same style

, there is some kind of specific irony, how you force them to do it, but i don't force them, i just listen to them carefully. and i am actually in such a mood myself, i think that when people in the hall laugh, and this is the applause of the film, and it is wonderful, we joke little in life, we laugh little, especially today, and of course, why, but, i think that on the screen it's always very, it's a plus of the film, i think when people laugh both in the hall and on the screen and joke, well, i think so, because sometimes it seems that you prescribe these lines, so that they are, no, no, i just joke with them myself, adjust them like this, sometimes like this, such a tone of a certain conversation, so that it is not terribly serious, and that's all, well, that's how it is, it's terrible when this happens, but say

something like this, an industry question before your filming, and we often have it, especially young people who are documentarians, they say that in under no circumstances will they use voice-over text and such a static interview, well, what is synchronous on television called , what is it, phew, that it is impossible, that it is such a bad documentary, you, you are considered one of the best ukrainian documentary filmmakers, and use these techniques, on the one hand, they consider you as an authority, on the other hand, they deny these techniques of yours, what do you think about them, this. i also forbid my students from direct interviews, at least while studying wine, because cinema has own language and own tools, interviews are really such a television, ah, thing, but in this case it works, i never say

no, and i was also young, we were too, i was against voiceover, against talking heads, but looking , looking, what a head... there is nothing so terrible about it, and i also like such direct cinema, film observations, when there are no such television elements, but sometimes i do it, well, i filmed my mother in the main role , i filmed three, well, three -hour interviews in different years, none of which made it into the film, here i am they just weren't interesting, we staged it in march, because it's such a structural dramaturgical element of the film, to hold it through and such an interview, which is given throughout the entire film, well, it's not even an interview, it's a monologue, it's a conversation, it's not us, after all, looking for a character, trying to grasp it and

catch an image, and not just some information that is needed for this or that, that's what i think, well, me, me. i did not become so radical, although i really tell the students that no interview, they are afraid of all this, and she will tell us, he will tell us, no, and show me, it’s true, what do you think about modern ukrainian documentary, under the modern, i mean, the times of full -scale invasion, well, maybe you can see some trends, how it develops, well , for example, let’s say there, well, it is considered that such a splex documentaries appeared during the revolution in a dignified way. because everyone started filming then, then the war started and that's all the whole process went on, from that time until now , what, what, how everything developed, what we have now, well , you know, i was in warsaw, there there was a ukrainian film festival, a ukrainian festival, a polish festival

of ukrainian films, the eighth, there was a wonderful idea once born to two polish women, they will make it. this is a festival specifically for ukrainians who live in warsaw even before the invasion, for those who work there, for guest workers, and now for people who found shelter there after the full-scale invasion, and i watched many, many ukrainian films, they were really like that there not very thorough, not very strict selection, they collected everything that was and showed, game and documentary. we have good documentary filmmakers, good young, young directors , female directors, i would say, today is such an era of women, and there are very good filmmakers. films, but what i saw today, a week ago, is for the most part, rather an annals of time, and

it is correct, because the true understanding of what is happening today will not be tomorrow or the day after tomorrow, a certain time will pass, both in documentary and in feature films, although there are films that were made instantly, there are 20 days in mariupol, which are nominated, nominated has already been nominated for an oscar from ukraine, and i think that it will definitely be on the shortlist, and maybe even in the nomination, because it is a very emotional and very strong picture, and we have grown, thank god, in the last 10 years the generation of young directors and producers, who have already learned to work with western producers, and to look for additional funding , only ours, i don’t want to say, deshkino, this is already such a common place, but it’s really

a shame, what is happening, and what exactly, that’s why that there are a lot of outrages now, especially this one last week, cinematographers signed a letter against the strategist, i also signed it, i have never done this in my life, i never sign collective letters, but today i added my last name to this one. the list of directors who wrote a letter to denys shmigal, our prime minister, that it should be changed immediately, this strong strategy was planned by certain people from certain television and copper production circles who have nothing to do with cinema as an art, i don't want to say anything bad about television and media, they are today they work without... i guess, but

the state cinema, the agency, the film agency, this is not about not being a place for trash production, i think so, television, in particular, it can’t be like that, let’s say that it’s not money the state cinema or the ministry of culture, this is the money of ukrainian taxpayers, first of all, there is a model, by the way, mentioning poland, there is a model of the institute of film, the institute of film arts, where there is a serious board, where there are serious people who decide what to support and what not do not support, there in this commission, they change there very often, they are often these the supercommittee, the commission, i don't know a single person, these are all commercial people who make their own conclusions, and i understand.

in which direction, you understand, and good projects just don’t support it, that’s right, the thing is not in kuderchuk, not at all, well, today it’s kuderchuk, tomorrow it will be muderchuk, and in the very approach, in the very approach, you think, what they shouted at her shame on the youth at the festival, they and she, the minister cannot say that in the hall where the laureates are sitting. and awarded and to say who makes a movie, someone breeds srach, the minister cannot do that telling people when she is invited to give a friendly talk in the union and to talk, when she just became the minister of cinema, she gets up and leaves the hall, you can't behave like that, you know, it's wrong, why do you think this happens at all, because in many spheres, well there, for example, my colleagues who are engaged in, well, in general , there is some... defense, no, not culture, not at all, and not the humanitarian sphere, they say exactly the same as

the cinematographers say, that it is some kind of, well, on insolence, which had already come out, passed some borders, that this is too disrespectful not just to filmmakers, but to cinema, as to art, why did this happen, what do you think, why did the system come to this, i think, i think, there are many a... reasons, but you you know, one of the reasons is that we don't have a unified film community, tomorrow they will announce a new pitching, everyone will break down, and not win there, get another grant and compete there, you have to either vigorously boycott all this, and well, you have to do something about it . it is necessary to change this whole terrible structure, it is pro-soviet, every time we will be wrong,

to step on the same playing fields, well, it won't happen, i repeat, kotorchuk will be someone else. even worse, my experience says that it will be even worse, and they will shoot there, they will send an ambassador somewhere in africa, i think so, or maybe even beyond the arctic circle, ah, where to live, well, this is a question for yermak, to things, this is her protégé, his protégé, well, that's what they say, yes, no, they don't say that, everyone knows it, well, it's a blow to my personal reputation, i once... on the air said this to mr. tkachenko, mr. minister, what is it , you are your reputation, such people, well, they are very, very quickly became separate ministries, this is no longer a blow to the reputation, i think that it should be changed immediately, because it will be a very big trouble, what do you think, how can it all be changed, because this is how communities determine that there is no

single opinion, everyone it is necessary to agree on what to do, but globally, because there are pre-syllistic opinions, that this will not change until there are re-elections, i do not believe in an ideal state cinema, which does not take good national cinema, yes, which will be gentle, good , it will not be, i think, it is necessary to change the philosophy of state cinema financing in general, to do something completely different, serious, and as an institute of film stuff poland, i think so, as a model, it is difficult to do, but i think it is possible, the poles will help us legally, how to do it? i know, and everyone knows, we have many colleagues and friends, they know how to do it, it seems to me, maybe this is also naive thinking and very naive, but, it is irresponsible, i think so, and away, i think that soon, i am

not sure that even denis shmigal will see this letter. it does not reach that you think that this is the first letter that is written there, to deputies or to the cabinet of ministers, they do not read it and do not open these pieces of paper, because at denys shmyhal's, in the same way at the president 's, there are people who filter the bazaar with papayas, bring what they want to read, they do not it's just that it won't personally come directly to the minister, the prime minister of ukraine, i think so. this is the last report, the last letter, very angry, i understand our film community that it cannot be like this, you mentioned pitching, i am still not completely sure whether next year there will be a pitching for cinema itself, there are already such rumors that maybe it will be like that, but we know that there will definitely be a serial, because serials are now in the first place for us, but still there is a discussion among cinematographers, which you

mentioned, whether to go in this direction or not, a discussion.. . in the fact that, if you don't come, you won't make good films , if you come, you admit, you admit this, this, this is state cinema, and the council about state cinema, how to actually be illegal, well, now, if there were any re-election, because there is a court decision, but how do you feel about this dilemma, because it is actually very difficult, i heard even now in in warsaw, in the film club where the festival was held, this discussion among our female directors was held. they talked about it very, very loudly and very emotionally and thought, on the one hand, if we do a boycott, which in my opinion is right, otherwise we will be poor, other people will come, and they will have funding, i will not have them name personally, so as not to give

them any pr, and we all know who it will be and who will come? that's where it's really a dilemma, i don't have an answer, how it is, how to do it, but to deal with them, and i think it's today it's also a shame, that is, we have such, tsuk tswang, we get it, yes, yes, absolutely, yes, it's such a stalemate, absolutely, although it's a pity, although there are now many people who make films and documentaries, and well, it needs to be completed, this good films, good materials, i have already seen some of them, even episodes, of some films, it is a very, very, very, very pity, it must be completed and worked on, even though we live in a war, and i think so,