[000:00:00;00] now the main and interesting thing in the program verdict with serhiy rudenko, from monday to friday at 8:00 p.m., in 1992, when savok disintegrated, that's right, let's just think with you, that's right, we won independence, belarus independence, country. the baltics, the independence of georgia, all 14 countries broke away from the russian federation and gained independence, and they, in 1991 , flowed around and built democracy, so in 1992, yeltsin wanted to go on the air, address the citizens and, you know, somehow say, comrades, well, not comrades anymore, what? say, russian, mr. oleksandr, i apologize, the topic is extremely interesting, we just

don't have enough time, i'm sorry that... i interrupted you, but we will definitely come back to it, thank you very much for your time and for these thoughts that well , many here have been woken up this night. thank you, oleksandr al alov, officer of the armed forces of ukraine, historian, researcher at the institute of history of ukraine, national academy of sciences. thank you, thank you, and let's continue this topic even further, the anti-semitic rally in makhachkala took place under the control of the russian special services and had certain goals, a representative of the main administration told about this. intelligence of the ministry of defense of ukraine andriy yusov, he also called putin's regime in russia xenophobic and anti-semitic in nature, although in fact, these features are characteristic not only of putin's russia, let's hear. this is an organized process, its tasks and goals can be different, as in the case of the fake about western weapons in hamas, trying to involve ukraine here, this is an absolutely absurd way. russia

since ancient times, since the times of the kingdom. russia has one of the key centers of xenophobia and anti-semitism in the world. the mass jewish pogroms of the beginning of the 20th century, which were absolutely clearly controlled and organized by the russian special services, at that time, the tsarist guard, is a very vivid testimony, as are the events taking place today. andriy yusov, representative of the main intelligence directorate of the ministry of defense of ukraine. roman is in direct contact with us now. dobrokhotov is the founder and editor-in-chief of the deinsider online publication. mr. roman, good night. congratulations good night. so, just this one makhachkala, if you listened to our previous guest on our air, mr. alfiov, he touched on the fact that, in fact, the situation could get out of control. but there are completely different data from our intelligence that indicate that this, the story with this

airport and what happened there, was a hoax. well, this story was indeed planned, i just think that it was not at all by the russian special services, by the way, i think that if any special services are happy about what is happening there, then it is the special services of ukraine, simply because what is happening now, this is a big catastrophe for russian politics, including for relations between the kremlin and israel, because of course, relations here will now be... badly damaged for a long time, and for russian politics that asked, well, putin's policy, yes, that asked to rule between hamas and israel, this is a big problem, that is, everyone understands that russia, of course, supports hamas in this case, and it is possible that it even finances it in some way, helps with weapons, but

putin has made a lot of efforts to to maintain bridges with israel and try to be somewhere in the middle in the role of a negotiator, since this is a more favorable position, these anti-semitic pogroms are a very, very big problem for putin, because of course, and well, we are already seeing the reaction of israel and the reaction of the world community , this image was completely unnecessary for putin now , and at the same time, in dagestan , there were actually no anti-semitic people before telegram channels began to inflame them, first of all, because there were simply no jews there, and there took root... judging by the last census of the twenty-first year, less than a thousand people, this is in a region where there are 3 million people, and there were no conflicts, no problems - those jews who lived there until now had no problems, but then telegram channels started to ignite it, the owner of this telegram-channel utro dagestan, abakar abakarov, by the way, lived in ukraine for a long time, but as far as i understand, he has now moved to turkey and closely cooperates with

the movement - which is distinguished by its, of course, anti-semitism, like many radical islamic movements, so somehow chief the candidate for the one who is really behind it already... islamists, who, of course, use every opportunity to raise this anti-israeli, anti-jewish hysteria in islamic regions, so of course, in this sense, they are now the main beneficiaries, and this lies on fertile ground not because there was anti-semitism in the region, as i have already said, that it simply did not exist there, just as there were no jews, but because the region is very poor, with a very low level of poverty and very strong, as it were, discontent, social, economic situation, and there generally quite traditionally protests often break out, namely in dagestan, this is the only caucasian region where there are quite a lot of protests, for

a variety of reasons, so you can simply throw any match there and a flame will ignite, accordingly, this is a provocation, it is literally in a few weeks, and the conscriptions started 2 weeks before... appear, a few such prizes were enough to lead to these pogroms, as i repeat, for politicians, for putin, this is a very, very big problem, in part, because that putin should, as it were, publicly speak out against all this, but if he begins to publicly take such a position , he will already cause dissatisfaction with the ultra-conservative part of society , which he is making a bet on . if he, on the contrary, stands up for israel too strongly, he will get them, he tries to sit between the chairs, and

now, when it is necessary to somehow choose a side, it has become very difficult for him, in fact, mr. roman, this is, well, she is very famous history, when putin tries to erase any defeat and how to blame someone for it in order to become a leader and such a winner of any conflicts in russia. what happened in this context, in relation to what happened in makhachkala, these protests, well, frankly brutal, can somehow putin now turn it to his advantage, who can he blame for this? well, probably, he will try to somehow turn it to his advantage, but i repeat, it is very difficult to do this, because for at least the last 20 years there, kremlin the whole policy was based on the fact that putin flirted with muslims and with israel tried

to take advantage of both, and if now the kremlin still chooses one position, well, rather then, precisely the pro-islamic one, since there are too many этом сейчас за... then this will lead to a large number of problems, well, in particular in connection with ukraine, yes, israel did not directly provide military support to ukraine at the moment, well, now israel probably does not have the resources for this, it is tied up in its conflict, but if not even though israel and ukraine will now finally find themselves in the same boat as the kremlin, this will be a big problem for the kremlin from a military point of view. and because israel is attacking russia's allies, such as syria and iran, it is political, because israel has a very strong political lobby in the united states, and, if we say, ukraine, ukraine

has succeeded recently, of course, it will convince the american authorities that что нужно оказывать подрожение, but now there will come to power, if trump, for example, that's all very fragile, if israel connects its lobby to pressuring putin through washington, then i think there will be no options, and so i think that putin is very afraid of this, namely from this is partly why there was such a reaction, you saw there, margarita simonyan and others, these poodles, from the kremlin, they immediately took the position that this is all a provocation, we are against in fact, you mentioned israel, there is an important issue , which also caused a resonance in the world, and in of civilized countries, the fact that a delegation of hamas arrived in moscow on october 26, and

in fact, it was such an official meeting, they welcomed the representatives of this organization very nicely and heartily, when the whole world considers this organization a terrorist, putin opens his arms, in what way. .. this story influenced the citizens, is it generally perceived as in russia, after the taliban , apparently there is no strangeness here, that is, it is the same, friendly and yes, i think that, i think that, usually some ivanovskaya housewife doesn't really understand who she is such hamas and such taliban do not distinguish between themselves, and this is a topic that is of no interest to her, so for the general public these meetings with the taliban and from hamas did not play a big role, but for the world community and for israel, it was certainly such a challenge

, because, in fact , the legitimization of hamas at the official level means that russia is ready to support these organizations, and now the question arises, when an hour later, when they gain strength, they attack israel, and what was this support, it is only polish, that is, we do not see direct supplies of weapons, first of all... by us, because , for example, a lot of weapons were supplied through the dprk, and the dprk has very close ties with - their leader meets with putin, yes, it would seem, why does the dprk support hamas, they are not interested in this region at all, absolutely, that is, they do it at someone’s request, at whose question arises, yes, well, that is, now and more more questions, we will also investigate this ourselves, i think everyone will be asking now, what was the role of russia in general

in initiating this attack on israel , because it was too convenient, now to arrange another front for the west, to divert public attention from ukraine, somehow it was too convenient, and hamas itself admits that it had been preparing for this attack for an hour, and there was a meeting in moscow about an hour before that, so i don't think it's such a conspiracy. i believe that it was quite possible that russia was one of the active indeed the initiators of this war. yes, thank you, mr. roman, thank you for joining us at this hour, roman dobrokhotov was with us, the founder and editor-in-chief of the online publication the inside. we thank you. and on other topics, the president of turkey, recep tayyipdoğan, promised that his country would facilitate the ratification of sweden's application to join nato, but at the same time, he noted that stockholm still has not taken sufficient measures against

the kurdish militants, as well as regarding the embargo on the supply of weapons to turkey. erdogan also emphasized that the approval of sweden's membership in nato may not be quick, because its parliament currently has a priority, turkey's state budget for 2024. let me remind you that turkey initially opposed the ratification of sweden's application, due to the fact that the country allegedly provides asylum to groups that ankara considers terrorists . of security, the elko kucharev democratic initiative fund, greetings to you, mr. taras, good night, good night, congratulations, good night, actually erdogan, well, such a politician consistent, but a politician who can change his opinion on certain international, political, diplomatic issues, and is not at all ashamed of it, in your opinion, in the matter of the ratification of sweden's application to join

nato, what was the advantage here and why exactly did erdogan change his position, but actually, you have to separate very clearly what erdogan says and what erdogan does , you have to understand that he is the type of politician that , well, actually we are quite familiar to a certain extent, and we are with that type of politician encountered, quite often, we know this type, this is a fairly conservative populist and this type of politician is the same as orbán in hungary and the same as the former president of the united states, donald trump. he is quite similar to the current prime minister of slovakia, mr. fico. that is, now there is, as it were , a trend towards such conservative populists. well, after all, this trend started back there in the middle of the 2000-10s, but nevertheless, recep

erdogan, he also belongs to this cohort, and that is why he, well, at first glance, can voice such rather controversial things, but you just have to understand for whom he is doing it, yes , well, he recently made such a loud statement, there was a whole speech in general, on the occasion of the centenary of the founding of the turkish state at a large rally, where he said that hamas is no terrorists, they are freedom fighters and so on, yes, that is, it is clear that with this... speech, he very much wanted to please, well, such more radical islamists, and ultimately position himself as the leader, first of all , of the arab islamic world, but. .. at the same time, in practice he does enough of these serious steps in order, to put it mildly, not to help hamas, that is why his statement about sweden, about the ratification of sweden's entry into nato, and about the fact that stockholm is not very good at fighting

kurdish terrorists there, by the way , the question here is why mr. erdoğan considers hamas freedom fighters, and he considers the kurds and the pkk a terrorist organization, well, again, this is due to his... rhetoric, so to speak, yes, to his populism, well, actually , that he says something that should appeal to a very specific audience, so in fact these his statements, they are primarily not aimed at sweden, they are not aimed at western allies, not at all, more precisely, yes, they are primarily addressed to the domestic audience, where erdogan wants to position himself as a person who cares about the security of turkey the widest possible toolkit, so to speak, but in general... in fact , from the point of view of the exportability of this statement, erdogan is trying to negotiate other preferences for himself, because he has enough, well, specific relations and quite serious ones problems in these relations, first of all, with the countries of the european union, and these same countries in the vast majority are

european allies of turkey in nato, and also erdogan has a rather specific relationship with the united states of america, there is another story that, i think it has had a rather serious influence, is influencing and will influence erdogan's position, it is precisely related to turkey's relations with america, and this is a story that actually began in the period when erdogan bought the russian s-400 complexes and they threw them away from the f-35 program, a modern fighter of the fifth generation, from the consortium led by the united states of america, and actually at that time in turkey they took away even those test samples, those test f-35 planes, on which they trained. and turkish pilots and turkey in general now has no right not only to participate in the development of this aircraft, even to buy this aircraft, but also to operate it in its own air force. and instead , turkey faced the fact that, well, they expected that they would update their

military aircraft fleet precisely at the expense of the f35, and now they have there are f-16s, which have not undergone modernization for quite a long time, and erdogan has also been asking the united states of america for quite a long time to sell him an upgrade package, so to speak, for the f-16s used by the air force, of turkey, and when this whole story with sweden and with finland started, when erdogan began to tell that they should extradite those kurds there, whom we want to put in prison here in turkey, the united states of america said, well, then we will think about whether to provide you at all, well, this package of upgrades for your f16, and in the end exactly at that moment... when the americans rolled out of such a position, everything changed very much for erdogan and finland passed this ratification very quickly, but sweden, well, it is clear that erdogan will play the long game, i.e. well, this is also another dimension of how the president of turkey uses the issue, well, at least , so to speak, yes, the official entry of sweden into

nato, but we see that there are many different dimensions of this problem, and it is clear that erdogan is just trying bargain for yourself maxim, yes. at different levels, in different planes and in relations with different allies, well, but in the end we will see that turkey will still ratify this application of sweden, no matter what, ugh, ugh, of course, but where is the place of ukraine here, what does that mean ukraine should take away from all the stories about the expansion of nato, but first of all, this is that, using the example of turkey, we should make sure that the countries are for our western allies, whoever they are, whatever they are. . didn't speak well about supporting ukraine, no matter what they say to us provided in the context of assistance to the armed forces of ukraine, but all countries have their own national interests, and primarily where these countries will have to choose between their own national interest and sacrificing it and

doing something, relatively speaking, for our state, we must understand that the choice will almost always be in favor of our own national interests, we must take this into account, we must not have illusions that they support us, well, if , due to the fact that we are primarily sympathized there and so on, we support in due to the fact that supporting ukraine in the war against russia, including supporting ukraine's membership in nato, this is not a question of sympathy for ukraine, or is it not a question of some kind of pure justice, it is a question of the national interests of european countries, who want to strengthen the european security system, and in the end, this is a matter of their own national interests and security interests of the united states, who want to demonstrate their leadership to european allies in this way and to strengthen euro-atlantic security as well, and in fact, this is what our diploma should tell us. reacts quite correctly to these things, that in fact, a much more effective approach in the movement of ukraine to official

membership in nato is, first of all, to discuss this movement on a bilateral level with each specific country that is a member of nato, in order to understand where in our national interests intersect with turkey, with slovakia, with poland, and yes , build this dialogue in such a way that , in turn, we emphasize the coincidence of these interests, and not the differences, and then, there are quite a lot of problems regarding ukraine's entry into nato and the disagreements of some individual countries regarding this, they will actually be removed, thank you, thank you, taras zhovtenko was in direct contact with us, an expert on international security, the democratic initiative foundation named after ilka kuchariva, thank you, the president of the united states, joe biden, and the president of china, xi jinping, can meet this month. the leadership teams reached an agreement in principle to

organize a meeting at the atec summit in san francisco. the white house noted that both presidents are eager to hold a constructive conversation, and this personal meeting can be the next stage in the process of normalizing relations between the countries. after all , it is important for china and the united states that the rivalry does not get out of control and does not... jump into an uncontrolled escalation. what can this meeting be like, let's talk further, yuriy oliynyk, we are in touch, he is an expert of the center of the ukrainian studio of strategic studies. greetings, good night, mr. yuri. glory to ukraine, glory to the hero, therefore, the main messages that want to under the time of the meeting to inform each other xi jinping and joe biden. how do you think? well, i think it's no coincidence that she is. and this meeting, which was announced a month and a half ago, now they already want to prove it better and, in

principle, the leaders of china and the usa have something to talk about, because it is important for biden not to overdo it with the conflict with china, as much as the economy, politics now the us, which is in crisis because of internal events, because of the unclear history with what the presidential elections will be next year, they need ... certain, in this conflict that inevitably continues, will continue between china and the usa, with certain predictability and certain intermissions , so to speak, it is also important for beijing, because there are problems with the fall of the economy, there is unpreparedness so far and they are aware of the unpreparedness of the army, right now this year, there next year to participate in hostilities there or against taiwan or other us allies. and that is why it is precisely at the atec forum, which i will remind you, the asia-pacific economic cooperation,

that is, it and all of the two states, in fact, represent two on the sides of the pacific ocean, that is, it is from china, the usa, so to speak, the embodiment of the old idea of ​​sino america or chimerika, that is, bag china, sina, and america, that is, as a new new center of influence to change the north atlantic, economic above all, of course, we see that beijing is preparing not only in the sense of what is said about the meeting, even before that meeting he is setting up, holds regular meetings, instructions to his vassals, we see that in the last month something has been intensified, russian leaders are flying to beijing, putin was there at the security forum,

where he met two weeks ago with the leader of china xi jinping, on october 30 this shoigu flew to beijing, again for a meeting, there in bastan, rather not in aistan, bishkak, the capital of kyrgyzstan, mishustin met with vani, the heads of the governments of china and russia, i.e. there is some kind of instruction, china is intensively talking with the russian elites, with various representatives of the authorities, china is now a star. with north korea somehow the same, he is trying to probe and instruct, so to speak, in order to come out, perhaps with some such single, single pool, single strategy for the next few years before this meeting with biden, well, that is, i think, and we are underestimating, in fact, a lot more will depend on this summit than many other summits that are taking place, a big meeting, if it happens , biden xijinping, it can greatly

affect the position russia, and to the position of the usa, which to a lesser extent, but also regarding the support of ukraine, because, the issue of china, it seems to me, again continues to say that let's still transition to save the face of russia and its vassal, to transition to a peaceful the path of peace negotiations, it seems to me that this will be actively discussed at this summit and we will soon see these results, mr. yuriy, there were many precedents when representatives of the state department met with chinese officials of the corresponding level, and this was always heard the thesis, which you repeated again, that the future position of the russian federation in unprovoked aggression against ukraine may depend on such meetings, or in your opinion, are these hopes always exaggerated that china can

to influence putin in some way, and i think that you will not correct me a little, because not on the position of russia, on the capabilities of russia, because in fact its economy is very much dependent on supplies to china, on chinese aid, which is not coming right now , even more so, iran, kendr are now helping, but we understand that if there was no permission from china to do this, then no one, no way, no iranian leaders would be so actively engaged in this matter, so here it should be... taken into account, china should be talked to, not only the us should be talking but kyiv must also speak, in principle, there will be attempts to do this, good at the srudovo forum , other things, other platforms, but it must be continued, done, of course, it should not be overestimated, because russia still has

a certain destiny of its own, a great maintains its independence, and even if some assistance from china and its allies is limited, it will be from within , it can and russia is quite powerful, to wage war for a few more years, to do a large mobilization, they have their own factories there, tank, three shifts work, we know, missiles are manufactured, so it will all be more difficult, more internal upheavals that are already happening in no, but russia will continue of course, but in its position on the possibility of understanding how long it can last, it will be very hit, therefore... uh, you should not overestimate, but also underestimate the position of china, and in relation to the united states of america and joe biden, how his pressure, for example, can affect, his position can affect that persuade xijin piing not to support russia in any way,

or still choose, well, the side of ukraine, if this has not happened yet, ladies. i apologize, we have literally a minute before the news, yes, well, actually, we will see how it will happen, but ah, i think there will be more in-depth, ukraine will be considered in the context of the general distribution of the sphere, the impact on the near future and will be considered in the aspect of peacemaking efforts and , in parallel with that, forcing a certain russia to peace, i think the usa itself to the end... this, we understand, is what they want, not exactly the defeat of russia's disintegration, but also a certain return to framework, i think that is exactly what we will talk about with them, for now, it is not necessary to operate with such a term, unfortunately, unfortunately, as support in ukraine, but rather the interests of china specifically there, and what they can offer for it, thank you, thank you for your time, yurii oliynyk, an expert of the center of ukrainian studies

of strategic studies, was in direct contact with us. more important and relevant news, let's watch and listen further with vera sverlyklyk. chevrons approaching victory. ukrainian gives freedom. the occupiers wag their tails when they hear. ukrainian palyanitsa and buffalo, and we have not yet mentioned words of 30 letters, although we will have affectionate words for everyone, we will not be destroyed, we will be protected by the power of three forms of the future tense, we will go, we will go, we will go to victory despite all. ukrainian: the language of the free. the government grant program is a work