[000:00:00;00] now, together with the interview, the economist also published a large essay by the ukrainian general entitled modern positional war and how to win in it, and it defines directions for getting out of this trap of a protracted war of attrition, according to zaluzhnyi, ukraine needs air superiority. these are manned aircraft as well as unmanned complexes for various purposes, they are improved means of radio-electronic warfare. this is enhanced counter-battery capabilities, the fourth is new demining technologies, and the fifth priority is this is an opportunity to mobilize and qualitatively train more people , about how it will be implemented and in what period of time, and what other additional questions are raised by this vision of valery zaluzhny, given the current state and probable dynamics of changes in the war with the russian federation and the

reaction our partners in the course of hostilities, we will talk about all this in our program with professional experts and our industrialists. my name is serhiy sgurets, i am the director of the information and consulting company defense express, which is now jointly with the spresso company aims to highlight the most relevant defense, industrial, military and military trends. and now our guest is joining us, this is oleksiy yezhak, an expert of the national institute of strategic studies. of research, mr. oleksiy, i welcome you, now we are establishing a connection, and while we are doing this, i will go in more detail then in the directions that valery zaluzhnyi outlined as technological things, which are primarily necessary in order to ensure a technological advantage over the enemy ,

to mix different technological solutions, just in case to get out of the threat of a positional war, into which it is now sliding, first of all, valery zaluzhnyi spoke about dominance in the air, but the question of dominance in the air is not so much the number of fighters, planes, because during this time the enemy has strengthened air defense and the existing composition of the aviation complexes of the russian federation can, of course, cancel out the appearance of those f-16s that we have been waiting for so long. and that's why, according to valery zolozhny, we should bet on different variations of use unmanned systems that can affect russian air defense and other factors. and now we will talk about it in more detail with our guest, who will represent the sector of unmanned systems that are developing in ukraine, and now we are joined by oleksiy ezhyk, an expert

of the national institute of strategic studies. oleksiy, i congratulate you, i am glad to see and hear you. in return, i congratulate you. i am sure that you have familiarized yourself in detail with the interview of valery zaluzhny, and with the essay that defines the technological priorities, according to the general, are related to the exit of the war from positional to dynamic at the next stage, and first of all i would still like to start with your assessments of whether this article and the mother appeared on time. and what consequences it may have, because some say that it is untimely, because the mention of a dead end , it actually fools our partners, who allegedly gave a bunch of weapons, there are no results, and others say that it is the opposite, because it is just a demonstration of what , at which stage we are, and what measures must be taken so that the dynamics on the fronts are really the same as we expect your estimates of the time and consequences of these

materials? well, it seems to me that it is still in time, and it seems to me that this is not so much an initiative of general zaluzhnyi, there, the article is called there, his interview is called by invitation, it's just that our partners want to understand what is happening, and it has been said for a long time that there are no visible changes on the battlefield, well , i think it is better to say it now, that there is... there is a positional war, there is a fact of a positional war, than, than to wait until such negative ones will begin rumors, until they start, conspiracy various theories of what is happening, it was better , i think, to say, and still, what is said, there, i will say, there are not even two

articles, there are three articles, there is an actual interview , essay and self-assessment, economist, well, such an overview of what is happening now, and there in the same issue at the same time it was said what to do with israel, there were recommendations, another front of the same global war, it seems to me, after all after all, it is timely, the article is not negative, i think there is nothing there such that our partners do not see and do not understand, i think that everything that is said there , after all, was discussed with our partners, and at the level of planning and various formats, and therefore i think that it is just like that, well, you can say , it's a strategic communication, an explanation to the general public that what the next phase of this war is going to be, there's no idea that de-occupation is over, there's no such thing, it's clearly saying what needs to be done to win on the battlefield, and

there is an additional accent from the economist, he i think it is important, there is everything there, but the economist ended not with what technologically needs to be done, but with the fact that in the first world war, in fact, the victory was not in that, and the technologies were too slow, and politicians intervened, one of the the empire fell apart, well, the empire, it was not called the german empire, but it simply fell apart , although it won and stood near paris, little by little they will go to paris, and then something happened to them, well, that is, there i would say, it so upbeat positive moderate positive so i think though just in time, we all now understand how and what to do, that is, in fact, you believe that the material is entirely, if not optimistic, then pragmatic, and it should not, in particular , create any negative perception in

ukrainian society, that they say we are leaning there in the choice of a dead end and further actually, well, we will wait when we provide these technological advantages , technological... advantage yes, well there, quite specific things are being said, and it seems to me, the same as a year ago, it seems, too there was an article in the economist, an order, there was an order to our partners for the 23rd year, if we speak politically, this is the meaning of this article, there was such an article, i think, in december or november of last year, then there was this order that ukraine needs, it said to reach mariupol, that what is needed for this, now, the industrious general said that, well, we are grateful, but unfortunately, it is not in time, and technologies change and russia has managed a lot, now another order, it is no more, not what was wrong, but here just the same, i would take it like this,

a new order for the new year, what is needed for victory, this is in the context of a global war together with israel, if you look at how this issue is being discussed, and this is simultaneously with the processes that are currently going on in the congress. of the united states regarding the aid vote, i think they will still accept this aid, one way or another, and even, well, various forces say that there will be aid, but this aid, under this aid it has already been said, well, what should it be spent on, so i think, still, well, you can't say that it's all good, no, the situation is really bad in the sense that we will have to survive another winter, a very difficult winter , but it is not as it seems, there is no hint of it, and there is a way out of the situation, i think it is still, i would say

that this is positive, all the same, and then the question arises, how to find this way out, because conventionally speaking, it is really us, here is your version, which conventionally speaking, is a request for a new format of assistance, that it is not only about there samples of equipment , which in the conditions of the new wars, they are ineffective, it is necessary to look for a combination of technologies, tactics in order to to create new prerequisites for e-e transition to maneuverable war as such, but then the question arises that our partners will also need to rebuild concepts and help ukraine in those technological solutions where they can help more than we can ourselves, this means that the format of aid for the near future should be measured not only by the amount of ammunition and tanks transferred, it means that our partners then also have to reformat, reformat the vision of further cooperation with ukraine as such, well, i wanted let's hope that this essay

that appeared there is not the economist, it first appeared with our partners, there, in principle, they are probably already working on it, it's no secret that it was still there 10 years ago, probably tourists they said when they...' found themselves in moscow somewhere in an administrative building, they found out on their gadget that they were somewhere in sheremetev's, we also haven't heard about haimars, about excalibur, well, for a long time. er, it is known that with enough, cheap enough chinese means, you can deploy a system that changes the gps signal, and there, it is actually also possible to solve this issue with the help of foreign stations, the most important territory of the world, europe , the united states, have these ground stations, but there is a certain policy of the united states, not to give too clear a ground signal, well , to unreliable countries, well, this element,

technological cooperation, if you can say so, well, there is a hint, this issue is being resolved, i think , and the united states, if they provided us with atakus, which are also, which are also oriented gps signal, i think this issue was partially, at least it's decided before we give these, these weapons, so i think there's a part that our partners have to solve when they already supply us with weapons, that's what was said about hopes. control of drones, protection of control channels, and well, those systems that rely on gps, there is nothing like that here, there are questions that we have to solve ourselves, regarding, as i understand it, well, there are no technologies in the world that allow you to easily go through minifields with depth 20 km, which are constantly replenished by these means of automatic

mining, there is also a hint here and there, i think that something that ukraine itself should work on, well, the problem here may be that help is needed and help is needed in where exactly to create these facilities, given that ukraine is under attack, perhaps on the territory of our partners, but in general, the the list that is there, after all, it is specific, there are specific hints about how the problems are solved, i even think that part, if it became public, what if , if this list was completely new, no one didn't see it, and we saw it now, i would said that this is probably wrong, there is no need to make political statements regarding technological military solutions that are not yet in the pipeline, but if this, if everything is done correctly, i think everything is done correctly, then at first all these directions began to work, reached a certain , the limits of the prophet, oprat and now there is simply strategic

communication explaining what the next phase of the war will be, of course, i am telling the ideal picture, but i want to believe in this ideal picture, i have the right to believe in it and tell it, maybe i i'm wrong but still between, between zero and what i say, well, if 70%, then that's good. oleksiy, there are five areas mentioned, four of them are really technological, that's right, demining. counter-battery warfare, unmanned complexes, and each of these directions, if it is technological with new projects , then the implementation time is not determined, that is, we cannot guarantee at what moment we will receive some solutions there that will really affect the battlefield, or this means that we then have a factor of uncertainty about when we will ensure the integration of these solutions and thus the issue of positional warfare, until technological solutions come to our aid, becomes such a factor that we will have to take into account for a certain time to act in

the conditions of such trench warfare as we are currently acting in the confrontation with russia federation, well, as far as i understand, even a reparative war does not lead to defeat, already next year, it simply says that strategically, if the reparative war continues as in the first world war, russia wins in such a war because of its a lot, but i think it's still out of the question. that there are two months before the new year in order to resolve these issues. of course, one must accept that there is uncertainty, otherwise there would be no need for such strategic communication, to say that it is necessary is uncertainty in what i started, the economist himself drew attention to this thesis that in the first world war, did not wait for technological changes on either side and eventually politics intervened, this suggests that there is now no such full confidence that

technology will decide the fate of this war and politics will intervene, that is, one of the parties will not be able to withstand it, simply and there , and it is hinted that it will not necessarily be ukraine that will not withstand, because there are many factors in russia itself, but in the end, the task is shown, i think , after all, it does not say that all 100% must be, must be solved, but certain, certain, i do not rule out that, well, i would not be surprised if they found out that, say, in a month again the effectiveness of highmars scale and atakus. became radically higher, i.e. some ground signal stations appeared, which allow, well, allow to restore this accuracy, i was not surprised by this, but there are certainly such sentences, it seems to me, that demining is the most difficult problem from what was named, from something that

is very uncertain, because technologies in general such on certain technologies do not exist in order to pass such minefields, so... so, of course, not everything, but there are things that, i think, are determined that they can already be quickly solved. oleksiy, can it be assumed that, relatively speaking, this publication is in the economist will be such a certain argument for the same american partners of ours who say that we want to see a plan, victories or a victory program there, then from the ukrainian side we will say that this is our strategy, which provides for four technologists there. directions, if you help to really get involved there, then we can talk about some success on the battlefield, if not , then relatively speaking, well, we have what we have, well , it seems to me that these processes are connected, and those processes are more or less , it seems positive to me, which are in the house of representatives of the us congress

are taking place now regarding the voting, regarding ukraine, well, after all, there are positive statements being made, even from all spectrums, that help. should be, then the question arises as to what this aid is for, it cannot be as before , here we see what it is for, it is said honestly, what, in the end, the situation for ukraine may not even be like this, if you look at the tone of western publications , perhaps not even as strict as for israel, there in general, there are hints that political changes are needed, there they directly say that netanyahu should go, the fact that, and then, and then money is given for this, after all, we do not have such a situation , yes, we are talking about the fact that explain how you are trying to restore the war of maneuver, the explanation has been given, well, it seems well, maybe there are some additional political demands, but we don't hear them publicly now, we now see

that there is a plan for the recovery, well, the offensive, the maintenance of the offensive and the resumption of intensive de-occupation. so to speak, and we see on the other hand that there are still positive discussions regarding the provision of a large package aid until the presidential elections of the united states, it is necessary to understand right away that the money, that is the decision that is being made now regarding the money for ukraine, this is the setting of a limit, this does not mean that the money that will be given right now is being decided , this is a limit, a limit... for a year, at least, and within this limit already at the level of the administration, at the level of our government, these small packages will be constantly clarified, there are 500 million, 300 million, which will be received regularly every month, but here is the basic solution that exists vision and there is a willingness of the united states

to continue to help, well i would say that we are no worse off than israel. oleksiy, then the question arises, we are now paying attention to that. that this publication is directed at our foreign partners, because it was published in a foreign edition, it is guaranteed to be read by everyone who is related to the problems of ukraine, and then whether this publication, these essays, these technological directions pose any tasks for our structures, the ministry of strategy and industry , there are the ministry of defense, the ministry of statistics, in order to somehow satisfy these needs, which, well voices general zaluzhnyi as if for partners, what should we do ourselves? well, of course, that's all, well, it's just a matter of how internal communication happens, if, if it turns out that this article, external publication is news for

another part, the system, well, the security, defense system, well then, then it wrong, i still would like to believe that this is such a coordinated thing and everyone understands what needs to be done, and such a joint, well, joint application has been made to the outside, but of course, first, any, any, any- which one, that one a technological solution, it is in addition to the actual western weapons, which should already arrive modernized, what i said, protected by the gps signal, and well, what needs to be done, the rest should be done first of all by ukraine with the help of our partners, well, that’s right , but if we don't succeed and we say, do something else for us, well, i don't rule out that it's possible, but they will. additional explanations, and what exactly you can't do, well, here's your money, here 's your technological help, and what you

can't do, but first of all, except what i said was certain, it said that certain western weapons would have to be modified to work in these new conditions, and the rest, well, we basically have to do it with the help of our partners. oleksiy , thank you very much for taking the time for these explanations for our viewers, for... expert assessments, i will remind our viewers that it was oleksiy ezhyk, an expert of the national institute of strategic studies. and then we will talk about one of the five directions that valery zaluzhnyi offers for a cardinal qualitative change for conducting combat operations on the battlefield, but this will be discussed after the advertising and information block. and what do you think about lacquer. fixes reliably, my dentist advised me. yes, and particles of food do not get under the prosthesis. and the price is good, the right choice for my retirement. lacaluut

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ukrainians. wins and losses, analysis and forecasts, politics and geopolitics. about all this serhii rudenko and the guests of his program will speak. people who have information and shape public opinion, people who defend ukraine and create the future right now, the main and interesting thing in the program verdict with serhiy rudenko, from monday to friday, at 20.0.0. we continue our military program, where we strive to evaluate the technological directions of the transformation of the ukrainian army, based on valery zalozhny, modern positional warfare, and how to win in it, valery zalozhny says that in order to increase efficiency, it is necessary to develop and increase the potential of the ukrainian defense industry, which is absolutely logical, and when we talk about those four technological directions, one of them concerns dominance in the air precisely due to the use and development of the direction of the use of drones for various

purposes, and now the chairman of the board of the alliance is joining us new energy of ukraine, commander of the special unit of strike drones white eagle valery borovyk. mr. valery, i congratulate you, glad to see and hear. greetings, greetings to all. i'm sure you are as involved as everyone else to military activities, have carefully read the interview of valery zaluzhny and these suggestions of the needle blower regarding the use of drones in various directions, what are your general assessments after you have read these publications? well, quite frankly, clearly, clearly with the definition of the strategy and with the definition of what is necessary , as well as with a rather critical analysis of the situation, which is a sober assessment of the potential of the russian federation and the gains that, unfortunately, our

enemy was able to achieve during this time , as well as with those... where to plan, what goals to achieve and on why concentrate, quite balanced, balanced and such a clear interview, i liked it, and when we talk about the direction related to unmanned systems, where valery zalozhny says that it is necessary to create a swarm application of systems that should jam the russian anti-aircraft system defense, provide different versions of drones that can work in rebo conditions and so on. to what extent it now corresponds to the potential, the technical potential, at which our enterprises, which manufacture there, are located they develop, develop, and so on, they manufacture drones for various purposes, what would you say , could you implement the requirements set by those who are interested in new models of disembodied subjects at the facilities of your

enterprise in particular? look, the requirements are quite, quite true, the question is, i am comparing what i am chasing with ee, using rebu and countering rebu, you know, like with doping, yes, who, who is faster, will make a new decision, in a new invention, who is faster about will advance further, that and for this particular period will reign in heaven, if we are talking about drones, so exactly the same as in doping there is an anti-doping check, how fast it goes, along with how doping products are made, yes, and here we can say that russia, unfortunately, today by one a step ahead, it has quite seriously over the past six months even increased its technological capabilities , including in the rebov plan, that is, in the system of countering

drones, and in the reb system by jamming drones, they were already one of the leaders, now they took what lessons there were for the previous year and made changes to their decisions, and we feel it, our last departure in the zaporizhzhia direction is, in principle, the loss of drones, and few people can oppose these, these systems, constantly, that is, it is a constant such a struggle, tactics of application , you look for these gaps in the total rebov rebov resistance, you look for when there is a change in them, that is, these walls, conventionally speaking, radio-electronic warfare is needed, i will decide to fight them not only there with technological solutions, but also with tactical application, but first of all, of course , what

technological solutions need to do this, as much as it is the capacity in this, well, we after the last departure, we are now changing one solution, we understand how to change it, what hindered us, and we will leave, leave, use it there for several weeks, so what good , for example, unfortunately for manufacturers, what unfortunately for manufacturers, because it is happening on our land, but ukraine is now a training ground for such military technologies, where manufacturers can. hello mr. valery, please open the microphone, the impression is that you must have closed it and it is not quite audible to our viewers, now it is better, yes, and if you basically now continue to use your complexes, which are quite

a lot, literally last week there were publications that your company. is setting up a mass serial production of a repulsive strike drone, so the question is how scaling is ensured, are there any current problems that you are solving, and how this funding, which was directed to the fact that there is 40 billion hryvnias for the production of drones, how it touched yours company, if it happened? at the expense of own sources, as well as with those. special units that go beyond government contracts. for special mr. valery, now we are forced to call you back because the audience can't hear, we will call you again now , let me remind you that this is valery borovyk, the chairman of the board of the new energy of ukraine alliance, this