[000:00:00;00] yes, when you started shooting it, and up to the final version, and tell me when you were already at the editing, yes, where actually, well, the story itself is created, yes, well, it was last year, during the air raids , and we reduced the sound to the sound of the generator already during the blackout, because there was no light, and somehow, somehow, in the end, everything ended, thank god, eh, i understand. that the film was already different during editing, you saw that it was not at all the way you intended it to be, tell us about this difference, what happened at the beginning, when you first started shooting, it was not an idea, they started filming already during editing, and as a result, the audience will see what the difference is, well , it happens so often in documentary cinema, and what you have in mind is one thing, then the film takes you somewhere completely, well, not in the other direction , but something is changing, this is why i love

documentary... well, there is no concrete scenario here, and it is such an improvisation, but we still tried to hold this improvisation in our hands and not let it go, so that it would not turn into everything is chaos. no, it's quite normal, you don't have to be hostage to your plan, you need to let yourself go, because life is much more interesting, richer, and uh, that's why we waited for a long, long, long time until we received... some, albeit small, financial support for this project, and when we planned it, ivan mykhailovych dzyuba was certainly the main character, but by the time everything had already happened and the motor-camera, as they say , ah, and he got tired very quickly, and marta asked him not to torture him too much, because he, by the way, marta volodymyrivna

was absolutely right that he didn't really... want this film, he is a very modest person and he, well, this is not his cup of coffee will be there, a public person, he worked a lot at that time, we dreamed, but unfortunately it happened that way, to shoot such a storyline, which was prescribed even in our synopsis scenarios, how they work together with ms. marta, when he was writing something, an article or a book , the two of them sat and she listened, he read something, they corrected something, it was so very often such a comical situation, like the wife sits and listens, and what the husband wrote, and they there was a lot of arguing, basically, well, what was removed, was removed, and there are many such internal things, moments, family matters that i simply

cannot. to tell, it's already like that and the moments are closed to the viewer, well, that's how it happens in documentary cinema, it's not a game movie, that's why, that's why we put everything on marta's shoulders, of course, and ivan appears there in the climax, and at the beginning of the film, as we said, we say, we put him to sleep, at the end of the film he appeared, woke up, came to the guests, well, that's how it is, if it's very simple. say, and that final monologue of his about good and evil, there is still more good in the world than evil, yes, although it is hard to believe, and although it is not visible, but it is so, because it would be otherwise, otherwise life would not exist at all, if it did not exist

, this is the very first shooting, that when it was not even our intention to make a film about ivan dzyub, it was that long-ago, long-ago project where we filmed people and the sixties in particular, and we took a small piece from there, which went into the finale of the film , he talked so much about the good in the world more than the bad, as if the world did not exist existed, so what, well, i believe that this happens very often in the cinema. and we changed a little, the accents, changed, and changed the theme, and the movie came out, not about the drama of a dissident, it came out about the relationships of people, about love, it came out about the tender relationships that they brought, through their whole lives, about the guardian angel marta dzyuba

, this film, by the way, i liked it because it is not stereotypical, that is, everyone expects, most people, that when it comes to the sixties, now it will be about heroism, and not about some other squeamishness and romance. all people, and they were very honest, people with a conscience, and they did not think that they were heroes, marta is absolutely right here, i was not a hero, and i did not want to be a hero, they lived like that, and very often heroes, well, this rather applies to feature films, when they film someone, especially now the trend, when they make feature films about people who are still alive, these people don't like films, they say margaret thatcher, there's a film about her, in a documentary, maybe a little easier, i don't know, but still they often complain , or after watching, i understand that

it is scary to show your heroes an already edited film, what mrs. marta said when she watched this tape for the first time and whether she asked you to cut something or not to take something there, you were at the court, she was, she even sewed a special black suit for herself to look elegant on the judge for the first time, the film was shown at the festival, it was the closing film, and there, unfortunately, there was an air storm, but people left the hall, then came back in and the film was still shown, and marta volodymyrivna watched a movie there for the first time, well i wasn't in ukraine at that time, so i just know, it's already, marta and i talked, and my friends told me what marta said to the stage, it would be very... why am i here, marta said, well, i know this the topic of marta volodymyrivna, why there is so little ivan mykhailovych, and that is, all her critical thoughts and remarks related to

exactly the proportion of her and her husband on the screen of the film, well, it seemed to me that this and that was all, that this was all that she said, yes, but she is now to me, we were saying goodbye and she said, you know, the movie that was then in october and the film that was in the ukrainian house today are two different films, such a perception happens, i generally thought that it was a film, well, when i went, i thought that it would be a film about a woman, well, more precisely, about husband because of his wife's stories, but after watching it, it seemed to me that it was not the case, that it was actually a film about her, because she was there as a full-fledged character. and they still turned out as a couple for you, although mr. ivan is less there, in general for you, well, at the end already in the final result, what is this story about, and it is definitely not about this pathos, yes, not about heroism, but about what are the main messages

in it, well, i think, this story is about tenderness, about wisdom, about the incredible friendship of two people. and about honesty and about the fact that people, despite all the trials, they remain people, and about intelligence, i would say the key word, intel, they are incredibly intelligent people, and here it's just like that, when you 're with them, i remember it's good that ivan, when he was alive, well, it's just something, some kind of... incredible ukrainian intelligentsia, with of such a breed, with such, with such roots, although ivan, such a guy from donbas, she is galician, she set the tone for the family, for their

people, of course, it is about that, i think so, but you once filmed when you talked to well, not only with mr. ivan, mrs. marteryu also talked with other people, and besides , they filmed about 60. what do you think was the most difficult test for them, because we, too, from the point of view of such a distance, somehow often cannot understand it, because everything is lost in pathos, but in fact, maybe it is some such were there non-obvious things, maybe everyday? i think that it is definitely the arrest of ivan, because i understand very well the fate of ivan mykhailovych. had tuberculosis, and she absolutely knew and understood that if he was arrested and sent to the camps, he , he would not survive, and she told me this many times, she said this very delicately in the film, but she knew that he had to

to save, and she saved him all his life , he had heart attacks, and a little, what he didn't have, she always took him to the doctors, to the doctors, to the doctors, and i think that the moment of arrest was definitely the most terrifying, she went there as if to work in the kgb, to the prosecutors for fedorchuk. and she also dressed very, very nicely every time, she was dressed up, simply chic, one might say so , and in order to impress these investigators, caddies , officers, well, you see, so many years have passed, she spoke about them very tolerantly even today on the stage, they were people to the system, but they are nothing, they were not evil, the banality of evil is yes, yes, it was their job, by the way. about this, and in the trailer you brought out this

phrase, which is very memorable when it told me that she sewed a suit for the court, a suit, i really like it, and it is very revealing, well, i don’t want to say that it is clear only for women, because it is for women and for men, but now there were so many compliments mrs. marty, she really looks amazing , and you have it in the frame, she is like a superstar, she is a very worthy, incredibly worthy person, what is the significance, how, how was this dress on you, in general, clothes and this such a dignified appearance that, what he gave, a sense of self -respect of some kind in front of these three, i think i i think, yes, i think, yes, but i see photos even when lviv was polish, parents, from there, ah, lviv stavovom in the 39th year, ah, ah, yes, i think, i just

remember how her parents were dressed. how the public was dressed just on the streets, i, they are, we have these photos, we just couldn't use everything, i think it comes from these memories, that's how her parents, and mom, and dad dressed, this culture comes from there , she still is, she once came to the shooting, and i came to the shooting already in kyiv, not in the country, and she was so chic. i say, listen, lady marta, what, what is a holiday today, what, well, how did i come to meet with the director , she, well, it’s, well, typical, mrs. marta, yes, she’s very cool, and i, well, i must have watched all your films, and in every one, well, probably, except for live ones, your characters joke, and they joke, i think, in the way you need, because you have it in the same style, this kind of specific irony, how do you make them do it? but i don't force them, i just

listen to them carefully, and i'm actually in that mood myself, i think that when people in the hall laugh, and this is the applause of the film, and it's beautiful, we joke a lot in life, we laugh a lot, especially today, and it's clear why, but i think that on the screen it's always very, it's a plus of the film, i think when people laugh and they joke in the hall and on the screen, i think so, because sometimes it seems that you dictate these lines to them, so that they, no, no, i just joke with them myself, i adjust them like this sometimes, yes, such a tone conversations, so that there is no animal seriousness, well, this is the one, it is terrible when this happens, tell

this, industry-related, question about your filming, we often have, especially young documentary filmmakers, they say that under no circumstances will they use voice-over text and such a static interview, well , what is synchronous television called, that is fu , that it is impossible, that this is such a bad documentary, you are considered one of the best ukrainian documentarians, and you use these techniques against you with, on the one hand, they are equal, they consider you an authority, on the other hand, they deny these techniques of yours, what do you think about them , this, i to my students i also forbid, and at least until he learns no direct interviews, because cinema has its own language and its own tools, an interview is really such a television thing, but in this case it works, i never say no, and i was young too.

we too, i was against the voiceover text, against the talking heads, but looking, looking at the head, there is nothing so terrible about it, and i also like such direct cinema, film screenings, when there are no such television elements, but sometimes i do it , well, i filmed my mother in the main role, me in different years, i filmed three, well, interviews for three hours each, none of them were included in the film, so i just wasn't interested in them. we put them on, because it was such a structural dramaturgical element of the film, to keep it through such an interview , which he gives throughout the film, well, it's not even an interview, it's a monologue, it's a conversation, it's not, after all , we're looking for a character, we're trying to grab it and catch it, an image, and not just some information that's needed there for this or

that, that's what i think, well, i didn't become so radical, although really, to the students, i i say that they are not afraid of any interview. that's all, and she'll tell us, he'll tell us, no, but show me, it's real, uh, what do you think about modern ukrainian documentaries, under the modern, i mean, times of full-scale invasion, well, maybe you can see some trends, how it develops, well, for example, let's say there , well, it is believed that such a complex of documentaries appeared during the revolution of dignity, because everyone started filming then, then the war began and that's all the whole process started, that's all. time and until now, what, what, how everything developed, what we have now, well, you know, i was in warsaw, there was a festival, a ukrainian film festival, a ukrainian festival, a polish festival of ukrainian films, already in its eighth year, and there

a wonderful idea was once born to two polish women, to make a festival specifically for ukrainians who live in warsaw even before the invasion and for whom they work there. for guest workers, and now for people who found refuge there after a full-scale invasion, and i watched very, very many ukrainian films, they are really like that there there was not a very careful, not very strict selection, they took everything that was there and showed it, feature and documentary, we have good documentarians, good young people, young directors. there are also female directors, i would say, today is such an era of women, and there are very good films, but what i saw today, a week ago, is for the most part, rather an annals of time, and it is right, because the true understanding of what

is happening today about will not be tomorrow or the day after tomorrow, a certain amount of time will pass, both in documentary and feature films, although there are some made instantly, there are 20 days in mariupol, which is nominated, has already been nominated by ukraine , has been nominated for an oscar, i think that it will definitely be on the shortlist, and maybe even in the nomination, because it is a very emotional and very strong picture, and it has grown up here, thank god , over the past 10 years, a generation of young directors and producers who have already learned. to work with western producers and look for additional funding, not only ours, i don't want to say state cinema, it's already such a common place, but it's really a shame, what

is happening, and what exactly, because there are a lot now outrage, especially this week, cinematographers signed a letter against the strategist, i also signed it, i never do that i never sign collective letters, but today i added my name to this list of directors who wrote a letter to denis shmigal, our prime minister, that it is necessary to change immediately, and this strong strategy was planned by certain people, from certain television and media production circles, who have nothing to do with cinema as an art. i don't want to say anything bad about television and media, they work flawlessly today, but and the state cinema, the agency, the film agency - this is not a place for trash products , i think so, television, in particular, it cannot

be like that, let's say that it is not the money of the state cinema or the ministry of culture, it is money.. ukrainian tax officials, first of all, here, well, there is a model, by the way, mentioning poland, there is a model of the institute of the film thing, the institute of cinematography, where there is a serious board, where there are serious people who decide what to support and what not to support, there in this commission, they change there very often, not often these supercommittee, commission, i don't know not a single person, it's all... commercial people who make their own conclusions, and i understand in which direction, you understand, and we simply won't support good projects.

that's right, it's not kudrychuk at all, no, today is kudrechuk, tomorrow will be muderchuk, and in the very approach, in the very approach, you think, they shouted shame at the youth festival, they and she, well, the minister can't say that in the hall, where laureates and awardees are sitting and it is impossible to say who makes a movie and who breeds srach. minister to tell people when he is invited to speak friendly to the union and to talk, when she just became the minister of cinema, she gets up and leaves the hall, you can't behave like that, you know, it's wrong, why do you think it happens in general, because in many areas, there, for example , my colleagues who are engaged in, well, in general, there is some kind of defense, not culture at all, and not the humanitarian sphere, they say exactly the same as the cinematographers say, that this is some, well, the arrogance that has already come out,

crossed some borders, that it is too contemptuous not just to cinematographers, and as for cinema , as for art, why did this happen, what do you think, why did the system come to this , i think, i think there are many reasons, but you know, one of the reasons is that we do not have a single film community, tomorrow they will announce a new pitching, everyone will break down, instead of winning there, get another grant and compete there, you have to boycott it all, and well, you have to do something about it, you have to change this whole terrible structure, it is pro-soviet, everyone ... if we make a mistake, step on the same steps, well it won't happen, i repeat, someone else will be kotorchuk, it will be even worse, my experience says that

it will be even worse, she will be removed there, sent as an ambassador somewhere in africa, i think so, maybe somewhere over the arctic circle, but where will she live? well, this is a question for yermak, by the way, this is her protégé, his protégé, well, that's what they say, yes. no, they don't say that, everyone knows that, well, it's a blow to personal reputation, i once said on the air on ictv tkachenko, mr. minister, what is this, you, it's your reputation, such people, well , they very, very quickly became by individual ministries, this is no longer a blow to the reputation, i think that this should be changed immediately, because there will be a big problem, what do you think, how can it all be changed, because this is how the film community determines that there is no single opinion, everyone needs to agree on what to do, but

globally, what, therefore individual opinions that this will not change until the re-election, i do not believe in an ideal state cinema, which will not be a good national cinema, yes, which will be gentle, good, it will not be, i think, the philosophy of state cinema financing should be changed in general , to do something completely different. serious and as an institute of film stuff in poland, i am i think, as a model, it is difficult to do, but i think it is possible, the poles will help us legally, how to do it, i know and everyone knows, we have many colleagues and friends, they know how to do it, i think so , maybe these are also naive thoughts and very naive, but, it is irresponsible, i think so, and go away, i think that soon, i am not sure that even denys shmigal will see this letter, he does not understand that you think that this is the first a letter

that is written there, to deputies or to the cabinet of ministers, they do not read it, and they do not open these folders, because denys shmigal, in the same way as the president, there are people who filter the bazaar with their daddies and bring what they want to read, they are not simple. it will not personally come directly to the minister, the prime minister of ukraine, i think so, this is the last report, the last letter, very angry, i understand our film community that this cannot be, you mentioned pitching, i think we are not completely sure whether next year the pitching will be a film one, there are already such rumors that it could be, yes, but we know that it will definitely be a serial, because we have the serials now in the first place... but still there is a debate among filmmakers that you mentioned whether to go to this pitch or not, the debate is that if you don't come,

you won't make good movies if you come , you admit, you recognize this, this, this is the state cinema, and the council about the state cinema, as factual, well, now, if they were to re-elect it, because there is a court decision, but how do you feel about this dilemma, because in reality it is very difficult , i heard even now in warsaw in the film club where the festival was held, this discussion among our female directors more, and they talked about it very, very loudly and very emotionally and thought , on the one hand, if we boycott, which in my opinion is right, then we will be poor, because other people will come, and they will have the funding , i will not name them personally in order to give them any pr, and we all know who it will be and who will come, but here it is really

a dilemma, i have no answer, how it is, how to do it. but to deal with them and i think that it is also a shame today, that is, we have such tsuk-tswang, so absolutely, yes, it's such a stalemate, absolutely, although it's a pity, although there are now many people who make films and documentaries, and i don't need an ending, these are good films, good materials. i have already seen some of them, even episodes of some films, it is a very, very, very, very pity, it must be completed and worked on, even though we are living in a war, and i think so, unfortunately, we will live for a very, very long time in this war, but you have to work, you have to shoot, film, i

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