glory to ukraine, this is the verdict program, my name is serhii rudenko, i congratulate everyone and wish everyone good health. friends, starting today and every weekday, we will be broadcasting in a two-hour format, from 8 p.m. to 10 p.m. today we will be visiting thursday, today we will be visiting four guests. for taftology and we will talk about ukraine, about the world, about the war, the economy, elections, corruption, in a word, about what you, friends, are most interested in, today in the program, internal discussions between zaluzhny and banking, whether there is a conflict and how to deal with it reacts world? a distant war in israel, close to ukraine, will the situation in the middle east affect the support of our state. who cares about war,

and who cares about their own mother, corruption in ukraine, what punishment will there be for bribe takers? we will talk about this and other things during the next hour with diplomat and politician volodymyr ogrysk, however, before starting our big conversation with mr. ogrysk, i suggest watching a video on the consequences of what the russian occupiers left near avdiivka, after three weeks of active assaults on russia . remained without a hundred tanks, 250 units of other armored vehicles, the ukrainian military also eliminated and wounded almost 7,000 invaders, this is a video of soldiers of the 47th separate mechanized brigade and soldiers of the separate presidential brigade named after hetman bohdan khmelnytsky and the 110th separate mechanized brigade, let's watch.

friends, for those who are currently watching us on youtube, please like this video , subscribe to our youtube page, and also take part in the voting, which, by the way, we also conduct on telefort, hence the survey today it sounds like this: has there been less corruption in ukraine since the beginning of the great war, yes no, it is quite simple to vote on youtube, select a tick, yes or no, and you can vote by phone, please show me your phone numbers once again. yes 0800 211-381, no, 0800

211-382. that is, you call these numbers, if you think that corruption has increased, call 0800-211-381, if it has not increased since the great war, 08021, 382, ​​all calls to these numbers are free. so, we have a politician, a diplomat, a minister in contact of foreign affairs of ukraine in 2007-9, volodymyr ogrysko, mr. volodymyr, i congratulate you and i am glad to see you on our air, i congratulate you, mr. serhiy, in return, best wishes to our dear tv viewers. mr. volodymyr, for almost two weeks, we have been observing the absentee discussion of the leaders of the ukrainian state in various publications and, uh, on different continents,

i would say so, because in the united states of america there are also publications about what is happening in ukraine and an assessment of the what is happening in ukraine now and about that state of the war in which we are now, and on the british islands, well, at least valery zaluzhnyi wrote the text a while back, different assessments , different interpretations, and it seems that both the supreme commander-in-chief and the commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine look at the prospects of war with russia in different ways and further development of this war. what conclusions do you think western politicians and probably western voters should draw, because it also depends on them the further, further policy of the united states of america, great britain, about the great

the war against ukraine, uh, well, you see, mr. serhiy, i think that we need to talk about the problems that arise, not between the president and the deputy, but between the president's entourage and all those who, uh, well, are trying on behalf of the president to take certain steps that can hardly be considered very positive for ukraine, uh, that's why i would talk more here... about the fact that the president should probably think about the composition of his team and draw appropriate conclusions, because, and here i agree with what the secretary of the nsdc wrote today in the column in ukrainian

the truth, what should be done here, clear conclusions, if you do not believe in the victory of ukraine, you have nothing to do in the civil service, although it is true that some advisers, they, i do not know whether they are in the civil service or not service, but all the more so then you have to think about a completely different story , because it cannot be a normal situation when there are some who fight and do everything so that ukraine not only perseveres and endures, but there are others who from the very beginning inclined to peaceful negotiations in the benches with the aggressor country, which meant our capitulation, it seems to me that everything that has happened in the last few days has shown very clearly and clearly who is who, who is with

whom, but i really hope that all these dialgs, let's call them that, they will still have as a result of organizations... conclusions, because otherwise , it seems to me that it is impossible to work, at least i would not coincide with working , when you lead one line, your surroundings lead another, here it is either, or, you have to choose, mr. volodymyr, and why you, the leadership of the ukrainian state, still have to convince the west, or explain to the west that putin is absolute evil. and that the west must understand that ukraine is a state that restrains this evil, and ukraine needs to be helped, why is this articulation constantly going on , to whom in the western world it has not yet reached that

more weapons for ukraine means less participation, and american soldiers and british soldiers in the war against russia, i thank you, madam, for that, because it is actually in the top ten , you see, this is what, well , it causes me personally, not so much as a question, not so much as a surprise, but honestly , sometimes something like, such, barely hidden rage, because not to understand what russia is, one must either be blind, or deaf, or blind. and deaf at the same time, the problem is that, unfortunately, there are a lot of people who occupy executive offices in western governments, these are people who do not know much about practical work,

people who, well, who can be called cabinet scientists who studied these or other processes exclusively within the framework of scientific research, i will tell you one episode that took place with one of our diplomats, it was, well, many years ago, back in the zero years, when at one intellectual event in at an american research center, the topic of ukraine was discussed, mr. brzezinski, senior, led this conversation, and he gave the floor to our diplomat already at the end, after everyone had already spoken and told everything they knew about ukraine, and so

the diplomat took advantage of this opportunity and asked the audience only one question, but it was very precise and very correct, he asked, dear friends , who among you has been to ukraine at least once, well, as they say, fell in love with movchenko, this is what leads me to the point that very often people who write articles that reflections on counterattacks that give advice, in fact, this very gunpowder has never been sniffed in practice, and therefore i would treat all these articles, all these things quite carefully, but on the other hand, i would very actively, insistently and aggressively my line regarding the fact that, dear friends, finally, if... that your eyes have not yet been opened, let us help you open them, and i would give the same data,

which are not being talked about now, as they say, unless what a lazy person, that helping ukraine is helping the american military-industrial complex of the complex, this is help for the american budget, this is help for the european budget as well, because if we receive outdated soviet equipment or something... more or less normal, but far from modern, then this means that the whole mechanism of production weapons, and this entails huge investments specifically in the american or european defense industry, the question is, who will benefit from this, taking into account the fact that the money remains a large part... well, where does it come from seem to leave because they

they just replace what is given, that's all, that is, i think that here we really need to be less diplomatic and more aggressive, although of course in everything you need to have moderation and common sense and not to go beyond those things that can be insulting, but when you present real arguments, well, a person who is capable of thinking, well, he must listen to these arguments. mr. vladimir, today the secretary of the treasury of the united states of america, janet yellen, the secretary of defense lloyd austin and the secretary of state anthony blinkin, together with director of the united states agency for international development, samantha power, in her letter called on congress to approve the allocation of almost 12 billion dollars of budget support to ukraine. it is clear that in the situation ... which is being formed now in the congress, there will be a lot of attempts by the republicans

, let's say, to tie it to the issues that are in the problems with mexico, that is, with the mexican border, someone will make certain attempts, like it does in principle biden, to tie our aid to aid, israel, and obviously, obviously, there is a simple logical the question, that is, why in the united states of america, both senators and congressmen, why do they react differently to aid to ukraine, and does this not mean that ukraine should make more efforts to work more with senators and congressmen, to what extent diplomacy can help here, and or the lack of this diplomacy, how much it can influence these processes. well, you see, mr. sergey, i think that the answer on the surface, in the states, to

the finish line is what is called the pre-election race, and now it is actually, not about these amounts, which are ridiculous for the american economy, well, what is 12 billion, or 50 billion, or 70 billion, or 100 billion, sorry, these are uh, not the numbers that uh can affect anything, well what america transferred to ukraine today is calculated at 0.3 tenths of the gdp, well, what are we talking about, if we compare it with the expenses that went to various wars there in iraq, in afghanistan, in vietnam, in libya, and so on, and so on, it is many times less, despite the fact that there, american troops were involved, here they do not even come close to

the line, as they say, is not that of a demarcation, but to the line of the state border. of ukraine in the west, that is, these are all understandable things, and here we just need to, i repeat, look for and find the right arguments and do what is necessary, and the most important thing now is the effort of the competitors of the democrats, that is, the republican party, to bite the government, the current one, as hard as possible . administration in order to have, first of all, an electoral effect. that's why i think we need to prepare now for what will be there, very serious, very loud, very angry,

statements that the biden administration squanders budget funds, that they are not accounted for, that they are spent, well, as they say, in vain , that, uh, if it were republicans, then everything would be different, this is a typical stage of political struggle, we are simply here, unfortunately, in the center of this struggle and we have to understand that, but i have a personal conviction that in this case the republicans will not be able to split this resolution, because we have already talked about it once, because the senate will not pass this resolution, but will propose it instead own, where everything will be tied together, and will return it to the house of representatives, which will no longer be able not to react positively to this, because if it rejects such a resolution, then

the political advantage immediately passes to the democrats, who will be blamed. .. republicans in the fact that they do not want to help israel, these are very understandable political games, we must look at this calmly, we need, and you are absolutely right that not only not to reduce, but to increase the work with those republicans , who get into a pose, well except that there is hardly any point in talking with... er, these dirty trumpists who do not respond to any logical arguments, but the vast majority in the republican party are adequate people, so we need to work with them and explain that we actually , we make a double profit for them, we destroy

the army of their main enemy, and before that they receive investments in their own ... military industry, so here the question is only in the selection of arguments and our diplomatic onslaught on all fronts, and on the line of the president, and along the line parliament, the government, the ministry of foreign affairs, the special services, and so on. by the way, mr. volodymyr, volodymyr zelenskyi, in an interview with nbc news, invited trump to ukraine and said that he would explain in 24 minutes. donald trump that it is impossible to agree with putin on ending the war between the russian federation and ukraine, let's listen to what zelensky said, what can i say, we will also be happy to welcome him, president biden has already been here and i think he understood some things that my opinion can be understood only by being there

here, it will take me no more than 24 minutes to explain to president trump that there is nothing he can do about this war, bring peace, through putin, if there is always, unless he tries and is not willing to surrender our territory to this horrible man . well, trump has already reacted, in an interview with the newsmax tv channel, he said that i have great respect for zelensky, but i think it would be inappropriate to go to ukraine at this time, now the biden administration is dealing with him and not would like to create a conflict of interest, well yes... trump answered diplomatically, but in your opinion, mr. volodymyr , given your extensive diplomatic experience, should you issue public challenges to a person who has... fairly high chances of returning to the presidential chair, i think he has , because you have to put dots over and you can't let goals into your own goal, when you can

answer, answer, in the same way, delicately, diplomatically, all the proposals, in fact , nothing, so that you can feel that there was no challenge, you do you want to know something? be please, we are opening the door, come, look, evaluate , understand what is happening, and then we will talk, so, well, against the background of the fact that practically all the leaders of all civilized countries have come to ukraine, well, i don't know, of course there, maybe , there are some left, but this is the vast majority of individual countries, and let’s say the european union, nato and so on and so forth, then there is nothing unusual or bad in this invitation, he is the leader of the opposition, in a democratic system, it is

absolutely normal when they communicate and with the government and the opposition, and no one in the biden administration began to fight, i think i would be jealous if trump came, but he found a diplomatic way to avoid it, realizing that it would not be profitable for him, because then he would have to explain to the americans, what are you doing there saw, and to lie, well, you know, openly and brazenly, he probably wouldn't be able to, so he found a formula not to come, but i think it was the right move on our part, so that he would be more careful in their statements, because when such populist statements are made, such as about 24 hours and solving all... problems, then you have to respond to them really precisely, i think that this answer was adequate. mr. volodymyr,

what trump declares and says, well, he talks quite a lot about the need to find a compromise with the russian federation and end this war. information appeared in the western press that it seems that eurorosa... started discussing possible negotiations with the russian federation with kyiv, an anonymous eu diplomat in brussels, who is now being referred to by the mass media, says that in the european union denies the beginning of such discussions, that there are no such discussions regarding ukraine's possible negotiations with russia, moreover, the president of the european commission, ursula funderlein, spoke against the frozen conflict in ukraine, let's hear what she said. first, our goal should remain a just and lasting peace, not another

frozen conflict, no one wants peace more than ukrainians. secondly, ukraine needs long-term security, we must provide a sustainable military force capable of protecting ukraine now and deterring russian aggression in the future. so that history does not repeat itself. thirdly, the best way to ensure stability and prosperity in ukraine in the medium and long term is membership in the european union, so that ukraine will recover, europe is the answer to further change ukrainian democracy, europe is the answer to protect ukraine from future interventions, again, europe is the answer. well, as the ancients once said... if you want peace, prepare for war, well, when i was listening to the president of the european commission, i thought about this, that

obviously, as a guarantor of future peace and on the european continent, there must be a fairly strong european community , armed, because there is an inadequate neighbor nearby, who can at any moment do something or do something about... europeans, by the way, the minister defense of germany, pistorius says that the possibility that there could be a war on the european continent, the risk of such a war starting, is sufficiently great, what do you say about that, given what the europeans are saying and what they are saying in private conversations european diplomats from you, well, look, mr. sergey, i would like to respond to that formula that kyiv is conducting some sinister negotiations there, well , let's analyze it using the example of this very shuster, who wrote the article, he

came to kyiv. looked around with some unnamed advisors, and in his second so-called broadcast on this topic, he said that these were current advisors, not former ones, because everyone immediately thought of one very smart ex-advisor, so shuster confirmed that it was was not he, but that they were present, and here he is on the basis of such information, well, he spoke in kyiv, he spoke with people who are close to... the president and are probably included in his cabinet, that in kyiv, such and such processes have begun, and the question in the question, do these statements of the unnamed advisers reflect the official position of kyiv, yes, obviously not , by the way, i talked about it and repeat, once again, we finally need to adopt a legislative act in ukraine on the powers

of the office of the president, as it were it was not called there, administration, secretariat, office, how, in any way, because we cannot continue the situation when , a body that does not have a legal basis, which stands on , it is not known why, on some possible decrees, uh, does things that can actually, as we now see, to have a very serious negative impact on the international image of ukraine. therefore, i think here, it is necessary to clearly prescribe the powers and responsibility for the violation of these powers, otherwise we will repeat all those things that have already happened, by the way, in our history, this not-so-distant three decades and what we have today. i will repeat again,

if a person who works for the head of state, works in the government, works in this or that ministry, and he does not agree with the line pursued by the ukrainian state, he has a simple way out, he writes a statement and leaves this state service, - doesn't work for others, so i think that here we still have a lot to do, we have to go... and this path, and in relation to those, things that, well, we are now observing, but in that context, about what you say, it seems to me that we, well, we should, a little bit, not be so much reactively, i would say so, we do not

perceive any statement of an unnamed european diplomat or even a named political figure as the position of the european commission or the european council or the nato council and so on. for this, there are officials, persons who express an official, real opinion. therefore, let's not... let's, as they say, react too quickly to certain statements, no matter how much we would like to sensationalize them, because very often these can be just real slips on the part of muscovy, regarding the statement,

german defense minister pistorius, regarding the fact that the threat of a global war is increasing, i would say yes, it will decrease significantly if the german taurus arrive in ukraine as quickly as possible, and if ukraine receives everything it needs, not in order to to restrain the enemy, and in order to defeat him, but here we return again and again to this formula, we will be with you as long as necessary, but... we do not have decipherment, how much is necessary and what it means, so i think that a very important task of our diplomacy is for everyone levels, here i have the concept of diplomacy in a broad sense, not only the work of the ministry of foreign affairs, is to prove to our western partners that in their national