[000:00:00;00] party, we will talk about why opzh is still sitting in the parliament, we will talk about this and other things in the second part of the program, wait, congratulations , on bbc news ukraine, dzaferov is working in the studio in london, and for the next 15 minutes we will talk about israel's war and the hamas group. leaders of western countries call on israel. to take humanitarian pauses to save civilians, while more than 10,000 people have died in the gas sector in more than a month since the start of the war, according to the local ministry of health. this war between israel and hamas began after

attacks on the 7th october, when hamas militants attacked israel and killed more than 1,000 people. since then, israeli forces have been bombing the gaza strip, and have already deployed their soldiers there. israeli authorities say their goal is to free hostages taken by hamas during the attack. more than 200 people, among them not only israelis but also foreigners, have been in the gas sector for more than a month. and israel's goal is to finally destroy the hamas group, which is spreading far and wide. countries consider terrorist. the gas sector is a densely populated area, there more than 2 million people live there. since the beginning of the war there, more than 10,000 people have died due to bombing, almost half of them, more than 4,000, are children. these are data from the ministry of health, which is run by hamas. israel denies the accuracy of these figures, but the world

health organization considers them to be accurate, and after weeks of bombing , the israeli military entered the gaza strip. the bbc's jeremy bowen saw the israeli ground operation unfold. final preparations before joining the operation in the gas sector. the israeli military is excited but not scared, just like young fighters in other wars. they set off as the war reaches its critical point. their colleagues, who had already entered there, surrounded the city of gaza. these men can be part of the next phase, the search for hamas tunnels and the fighting for every street. israel's prime minister has promised his country that hamas will take fierce revenge. but with that much firepower, the question is whether israel is heeding joe biden's advice not to act on anger, to defend itself, but while preserving the lives of palestinian

civilians. we entered the gaza strip together with the israeli army, on the condition that we do not give away their positions. the video was shot after the military took us through the chilean war with the gas sector, first it was necessary to show the military censors: we get out of the armored car and walk through the wasteland. after a month of airstrikes and over a week of tanks and troops coming in, every building we saw was either destroyed or damaged. the military wanted to show the place where, according to their data, hamas manufactured weapons. this is their equipment, which should have been transferred by sea from their territory to ours. the military says that here they made drones equipped with bombs. according to him, it was in such places that the attack on october 7 was being prepared. on the floor above is the apartment of a palestinian family. the soldiers say this is further proof that

hamas. uses civilians as human shields, collecting bombs under children's bedrooms. the officer emphasizes that hamas, not israel, is responsible for the deaths of civilians. we have intelligence, we know exactly where to hit. we know our goals, they approved by our command. it's not like i woke up to destroy the city. we aim at the enemy and only the enemy, and i do my best to hit. that is, judging by the destruction, here the enemy was everywhere, you want to say, yes, yes, on the strategic scales of israel, on the one hand, the destruction and death that he brought to the palestinians in gaza, civilians and hamas, on the other hand, the pain of his own people and the need to return he feels safe,

the main impression i have from being here is first of all the force of the blow, that israel used against the gas sector, this is a huge military power, and also the scale of destruction, mass destruction. these are thousands of houses, israel says that this is a military necessity, self-defense. abir thinks otherwise. she said that all this was because of the bombing of israel, that there was no safe place anywhere, there was no food and drinking water for her children, israel bombed bakeries. israel says 50,000 palestinians have moved south after being promised safe passage. hamas released new videos. battles with the israeli military on in the streets of gaza, they claim victory, but are significantly inferior in armaments. hamas will not be able to win a war with israel, but the guerrilla tactics of "fight and flight" can

drag out the war for months and force a ceasefire. when we left the gaza strip, even more israeli tanks entered. israel's western allies support the operation in the gaza strip. but america's reminders of the laws of war and the demand for humanitarian pauses suggest that even israel's closest allies are alarmed by the humanitarian disaster this war will bring.10,000 dead in in the gas sector, more than 400 children were killed, according to the data of local doctors. un secretary general antonio guterres said that the gas sector is becoming a graveyard for children. hundreds of girls and boys are killed or injured in gas every day. such were the words of general secretary oon. israel has previously accused guterres of justifying hamas' actions and called on him to resign. and this time

, israel's foreign minister eli cohen responded to guterres' words, recalling the more than 30 children held hostage by hamas militants. he said that the problem in gaza is hamas, not israel's actions in the gaza sector. what children experience during the war, we will tell later. they cannot choose what they see, the death of others, or the grief of their adults, thousands have died. farah hasan was 2.5 years old. she. died as a result of an airstrike on october 26, she was the late child of her parents, abir and muhammed, who now live only

in memories of their little girl. i was so happy, as if all the riches of the world had fallen into my hands, i was so waiting for her birth, i was happy every moment before her birth, i cried for her. while she was growing up. when i first heard her voice, i couldn't believe my luck. she breathed life into my world. she was my whole world. for more than four weeks now, our journalists have been documenting the impact of war on children. those who survive live with the trauma. but there is another story, it is about the children of gaza and their desire for joy. 12 years ago these kids set the world record for

kite flying, an incredible moment. and even now, despite everything taken away by the war, they are show their resilience. children create their own worlds during war. when the bombing begins, 12-year-old layan khalaf finds solace in her family. my mom calls my siblings to hug them and we all hold hands. on the territory of al-aqsa hospital, the staff and children of the refugees, using surgical gloves, inflated balloons. and in another part of the hospital

, children were mourned by children, among them little maryan al-masi. i don't want to feel that i just wrapped her in a shroud and left her here, how am i going to go home without you, my darling, how am i without you you, my dear? but who can comfort anyone here? western leaders have previously called on israel to take humanitarian pauses to allow civilians to receive aid, and today the us said israel would take a four-day pause in hostilities in the northern gaza strip. the bbc's barbara plet usher in washington analyzes what this means. the white house announced the agreement with israel on four-hour pauses that. so that the palestinians in the north of the gaza strip, where the main military operation is taking place,

could leave for the south, israel, as they declare, will warn in three hours when there will be such a pause. palestinians can then use the safe corridor, which has reportedly been operating for several days, but now there will be a cessation of military operations. the white house hopes that these humanitarian pauses can be used to deliver more aid to the gas sector, up to a hundred and fifty trucks a day, which is not yet happening, and also to use these pauses to facilitate the ... release of the hostages, which is exactly what they were trying to achieve. americans, no truce and pauses in hostilities to deliver aid and also to help palestinian civilians get to safe territory. the israeli military says it has surrounded the city of gaza, which is located in the north of the gaza strip. as a result of heavy fighting, hamas is said to no longer control this northern part of the sector. earlier, israeli authorities announced the opening of... a corridor for

palestinian civilians from north to south, and yesterday alone, approximately 50,000 people were reported to have left the northern part of the sector through this corridor the bbc's rushdie abual, who is still in the southern gaza strip, details how the evacuation took place. thousands of people arrived here today following an evacuation route that was longer. and in fact this path is very difficult for them. i met several people who came to this camp to nasser hospital. people walked 3-4 km, because it is impossible to get there by transport, the roads are destroyed. i saw a father who carried his son on his shoulders, and it was a scorching sun. the gas here is very unusual for november weather, about 30°. therefore, people have to walk in such heat, carry

their children, their belongings, why are they heading south, because the hostilities in gaza city have intensified a lot. the fighting is taking place outside the alkuts hospital in southwestern gaza, as tanks approach the hospital where people are staying. communication with people in that area is almost non-existent, but i managed to talk to one of those who left, he said that there was a real firefight there, from the beginning of the israeli attack on the gaza strip, after the attack by hamas, there were many buildings there destroyed this territory has been heavily bombarded from the air for days, and is now being shelled from the sea from ground artillery systems. i have seen photos showing hundreds of affected areas. it is believed that the wealthy lived in this area. people, this is a fairly new building

, it was built about 25 years ago, mostly, these are seven-story houses, some of them are completely destroyed, others are damaged. fighting also intensified near the beach camp. the beach camp is the only refugee camp in gaza city, where 60,000-70,000 people lived. most have already evacuated, but there are those who are still there, and, as they say in the local ministry of health. many dead bodies remain under the ruins. fighting is taking place near the coastal road, but tanks are approaching from the south, encircling a large part of gaza city. that's all for today, look for more stories on our website bbc.ua and on our social media pages. and we will be on the air again tomorrow at 21.

take care. greetings, friends, we are continuing the broadcast on the espresso tv channel, this is the verdict program, me my name is serhii rudenko, from now on weekdays, the verdict is issued in an extended format, from 8 to 10 p.m., we talk about the country, the world, the war, the economy, elections, about what is of interest today, friends, and you, and us, today we have many topics and many guests, but all in turn, i want to introduce... today's guests, so this is maria ionova, people 's deputy of ukraine from the european solidarity party, mrs. maria, i congratulate you and i am glad to see you on the air, mutually, glory to ukraine, glory to the heroes, people's deputy of ukraine from faction of the motherland, mykhailo tsimbalyuk, mr. mykhailo, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us

today, i wish you health, thank you, and people's deputy of ukraine from the servant of the people faction oleg dunda. mr. olezh, i congratulate you and i am glad to see you on our air. congratulations, mutual. today we are conducting polls on our platforms in youtube and facebook , as well as in telephone mode live , we are asking our tv viewers whether there is a place for opzzzh deputies in the current government, yes, no, if you are watching now live, you can vote by phone, by numbers, if you think that there is a place for such deputies in the current government, 0800-21-381, no, 0.800 211-382, if you vote on youtube, it is quite simple, choose the option yes, no, or leave your comment, if you have a personal and special opinion, ladies and gentlemen, in the format of a blitz survey, i ask you to answer this question, whether there is a place for opzh deputies

in the current government, let's start with maria ionova, please no, mr. oleg, my opinion is very well known. i collected signatures for deprivation mandates of opzh people's deputies and it is simple for representatives of opzh, the opposition bloc of the party of regions, there is no place in power in the previous, in the current one, and i have hope in the future as well. mr. mykhailo, of course not, but it is important that it be resolved constitutionally, in a constitutional way , the best option is for them to draw up mandates themselves, understanding that both the people of ukraine and the public do not trust them, that would be the best option. why, why exactly are we asking about this, because today the kyiv city council deprived deputies from opzzzh of their leadership positions, and she did it on the second attempt. we know that in the 2020 local elections , a large cohort of associates of viktor

medvedchuk, the party of the opposition platform for life, was elected at various levels, in various communities. people, more than 4,000 people, they are still in power, they are still solving land issues , they are still voting for laws in the verkhovna rada of ukraine, they are still authors, initiators of various draft laws, you, mr. mykhailo, said about what needs to be decided in constitutional way, and if this party, the opposition platform during its lifetime violated the constitution, worked for the russian federation openly. and actually banned in ukraine precisely as a party that violated current ukrainian legislation and was a collaborating party, then what norms of the constitution should be applied so that they are not simply in the verkhovna rada, so that you do not go, do not greet them there in that sector ,

they kept nodding their heads that if they were simply not there, if the question is for me, then the constitution method, the first, for them to draw up themselves deputies' powers, as some of them did by the way, is the best constitutional way. the next option is elections, but in the current conditions, this is impossible in the near future, because this is precisely the constitutional way, i agree with you that they violated the constitution, but i believe that to follow the path of violation on the path of: former violation, it is not worth it, because this is the way to nowhere, i emphasize once again, it is very important that , under the pressure of other people's deputies, other factions and groups, under the pressure of ukrainian society, they themselves powers, by the way, after that, the verkhovna

rada retains its powers and without them there will be a constitutional majority, i believe that there are no problems here, madam. maria, the fact that former deputies from opzh, or, rather, deputies who were elected from a party that is already banned in ukraine, are in the walls of the verkhovna rada, this is more of a legal or political issue, if it is a political issue, then who is behind this political dilemma should solve, well, i mentioned another 4,000 deputies of various levels who also have a representative mandate and also work, and god knew him, maybe this is the network. what is putin counting on in the event of a repeated attack on other regions of ukraine? mr. serhiy, you and i remember ppeya as far as representatives are concerned. in the opz in leadership positions and in delegations in the parliamentary assemblies, that we, our faction, spoke very strongly about this and

demanded that the same nester shufrych not be the head of the committee on freedom of speech, because it shames the country, no no only the parliament, and the president, and the government, and our society as a whole, so i think it is very important start with a political decision, and you and i know, and unfortunately, experience shows how the opzzh and there, according to the former opzzh, there are now two groups voting perfectly at the moment with the servants of the people faction, and the political decision is very important, then what mr. mykhailo is already saying , you and i know that in the regions, there is a civil society, they really put pressure, there are communities, they do not allow this. and that is why i think that this synergy of political and legal decisions can bring results, but not in the same way as

the situation with the law on the prohibition of moscow church, that is, it is important that we do this very quickly, quickly and legally. mr. olezh, you mentioned that you were one of the authors of the draft law, which actually provided for the prohibition of activity or, let's say, the nullification of the powers of deputies from the opposition platform for life, and why, why did this draft law not pass, that is, what was the reason and who stood in the way of the fact that your ideas were not implemented? look, these bills, and there were several bills, there was a resolution on the deprivation of the mandates of deputies from of the banned opzh, there were kaminiv's draft law, it is now about the deprivation of... local councils, and i, my position on this is as follows, this is not at all a question of deputies

of opzh, in fact, it is a question of existing local councils and, the verkhovna rada, are they still able to make a statesman's decision and deprive potential or existing collaborators, respectively , of their mandates, their seats in session halls, in state bodies. power in one form or another, and if they are not ready to vote on it, it is about their attitude to statehood, by the way, this is also a question about the kyiv city council, well, to my surprise, for example, the kyiv regional council, or the fastiv city council, or , for example, the mukachiv city council, the mukachiv city council made a decision to deprive former members of the opzh of their right to vote and be in the session hall, and the kyiv city council did not manage to do this, although it is surprising. after all, there are 12 people, less, somewhere around 10%, but the kyiv council did not vote, but only took away from them the authority to head

the relevant commissions, although with such a number it the authority is not about anything at all, there the majority , the majority of commissions make decisions, and the chairman may not even influence it, it is actually an eye candy in order to simply blow off steam and not solve this issue at all, so it is not confused by opzzh, it is exactly about those it is the heads of the factions, it is the members of the faction who make such bad decisions in general, and what, in general, is my point of view that what we have in 30 years is what mr. mykhailo was talking about, it is about the fact that we at the very beginning, since 1991, they did not conduct the so-called political lustration, we actually did not clean up, in 30 years, ukraine did not clean up its, shall we say, remnants of that soviet world, the russian world that we have... in 1991, what, for example, the czech republic did there, or the baltic countries did, and they do not have problems with the representation of russia in

their state bodies, but we always forgot about it, did not want it, and it had its own body and it continues to this day, and we have those problems, that blood, that war in the end, which we have today, on our territory, it is because we have not made this decision for 30 years, and this is not very good, it does not speak about the present and about the current terms of office, and about the previous terms of office, they did not consider it appropriate to solve the issue, in fact, for all the deputies, for all the authorities for the 30 years of independence of ukraine, but look, you know, sir serhiy, we can add about the local deputies, because in fact their powers can be stopped, it is important to stop them, and who were elected on the list of the opzh, which is a ban party and it is important to prove it in court, something that applies every time mr. oleh speaks of a previous convocation. anyway, let's go don't forget that it was important for us to get visa-free, it was important for us to get democracy, there was a large majority of this party, but we

started working to get independence and spiritually and to strengthen institutionally, and this convocation had more opportunities, to finish this thing, so everything in your hands, we only support, and let's do it together, mr. serhiy, that's when i'll comment, since i 'm being commented on, right now we had a vivid example, when for the sake of tactical issues, the solution of tactical problems was forgotten for 30 years about strategically. the question of statehood, here we have what we have for this exchange, here is a vivid example, we exchange today 's votes in order to lose the future strategic interests of the state, that 's all, well, now, i will allow you to remind that without visa-free, without association agreement, there was no application and no start of negotiations, you are just a little bit about statesmen, it is you who manipulate, you say beautiful words that

have nothing to do with reality. i say what is, we had 30 years to solve the issue and always there are some or other issues, why don't we solve the political issue, because today we need to vote, today we need to decide visa-free , tomorrow you will solve another issue, the day after tomorrow another issue, yes, 30 years, why don't you want to solve it, mr. mykhailo, please you have my word, there is another legal way to deprive them of their parliamentary powers, another thing that law enforcement agencies have started to do. if mr. serhii correctly observed that they violated the constitution and other laws, we have legal regulation, i.e. law enforcement the bodies are obliged to react, to bring them to criminal responsibility, and when

the court's decision enters into legal force, they, this is one of the reasons... legal to deprive them of their parliamentary powers. by the way, some mps from the former opzh are currently facing criminal charges. it is very important that the activity of law enforcement agencies is effective, and perhaps this will encourage some of the others, including those in local councils, to quickly and voluntarily draw up a mandate. well, but not all 400 will be imprisoned. mr. serhiu, a small comment, i think, if so, reasoning... the leaders of the czech republic in the early 90s or the leaders of the baltic states, no political lustration would have taken place there at all, there was no consideration of the need to bring all representatives of the communist regime to responsibility, they decided yes, the criminal regime, these people were related to the criminal authorities, they were aware of where they were working, to deprive them of their political future so that they would not influence, and we know how quickly they

got to the european union, to the members the european community. moreover, i want to point out, i conclude, i conclude, moreover, i want to point out that we have prohibition parties, but for some reason it is believed that those people who filled these parties with ideas, well, you understand that there is no chair in the party , it is not the seal that solves the problem, it is the people who are inside the party who are in charge, who are in charge, who go to the session hall, who fill the party with ideas and ideology, for some reason the party is banned in our country, but these people, they are needed, who filled the party with ideas, for some reason, it is necessary to conduct criminal cases are many years old, it's time, another term is coming, and so we enter one circle every year, thank you, mr. olezh, mr. mykhailo, let's finish the discussion about this, please, in conclusion, this is the rule of three-converts, i think that the current government has already

had enough time to correct the mistakes of the predecessors, let's still talk specifically about what needs to be done based on the current situation , don't say that everything is the fault of the predecessors, sorry, four, almost five years already, enough time to correct it, once again i emphasize the mistakes of all predecessors during the 30 years of independence, for that the people chose a monomajority, i will just add a small remark, since i was a participant in the student revolution, and our demands included the re-election of the verkhovna rada, it was in october 1990, and then , by the way, the representatives of the national... democratic camp did not strongly support the students regarding the fact that the parliament should be restarted and the eyes of the 239 communists who were in the verkhovna rada should be zeroed out, that is , they did not go for re-election then, that is, this whole story has a very a long, long chronology, about which we can talk, but here the question is, what should we do now during the war, when there are open collaborators who went to pay homage to moscow,