[000:00:00;00] if you sit down and look carefully at all the factors in the world, what will happen next, the end of next year, then i think you would be less surprised by these words, i really hope that this scenario will not happen, but, well, donald trump, despite his image, and indeed, he very often speaks to the public, he simplifies some things so that his voters can understand , but you are a strategy, and frankly speaking, it is very dangerous for ukraine and for the world, so let's see, i am more, more alarmed the way he runs this company now not at all like in the past, he used to want to attract such more moderate republicans, that's why he had a vice presidential candidate, his running mate, a completely

different person who spoke differently, continues to support ukraine, and now he said today that he is ready to take as a partner, actually with the possibility of becoming vice president , carlson, that is, i think everyone knows this political spectator who is absolutely pro-russian, in many respects anti-ukrainian, and has been leading this line for a very long time, so tucker carlson. well, the vice president, well, me i could not imagine this before, but now it can become a reality if trump is elected, so everything will continue to change in america, you see, we talked about polls recently, journalists in ukraine talked about six swing states, well, where they fluctuate voters, close democrats, republicans, change, if, some win, then

others, and five states out of six showed. advantage of trump, and the elections on tuesday, which showed a completely different picture, were won by the democrats, so let's go gradually, until next year, and now we have to work with the current administration by joseph biden, to believe that they will achieve those goals of helping ukraine, because it is in their interests, and to work, to look closely at the development of the situation in the united states, it may be...' very difficult next autumn year, so at the same time we need to think about the autumn of next year, i am convinced, and i am repeating this not for the first time, i do not see any threats to the supply of weapons, aid, financial, somewhere around the summer of next year, there will be enough of these funds, but in the autumn, when planning will be the following, that is, we need to understand what we will do when

america will probably have enough, enough... a turbulent situation, to the point that there may be a shutdown lasting several weeks, when everyone will be electrified, not knowing what to do, and a very tough presidential campaign, well, not only the presidential campaign, there will also be congressional elections, gubernatorial elections, so you have to look one step ahead, i think you have to have different plans, work with everyone and anticipate any situation, in the end there , where we cannot...' influence, and we definitely will not influence in america on what will happen, except by their victories together with the americans, and it will really give the opportunity to show the voters the result , so then it would be ideal, but so we, let them choose the presidents, we just have to react, after all, i in conclusion, i will say that i am still a supporter of not letting all these things alone, well, for example

, one of the candidates said something like this in the debate, saying things that border on russian towards our president volodymyr zelenskyi, yes there is a narrative, you have to you mean ramaswamy, who was told that a nazi, zelsky is a nazi, that's the way to react, i know it's unpleasant, i know when candidate trump, in the last election , said that crimea belongs to russia. i reacted as an ambassador, i know what i listened to, after this reaction, but believe me , everything was checked, everything was clear, lawyers were watching, everyone was watching, i published an interview in leading american publications that crimea is ukraine and explained then to president trump personally, what is the situation in ukraine? i received devastating criticism for meddling in american politics there

, it was strange to watch, and i believe that we should react where our basic positions are touched, if the president of ukraine is called a nazi or they try to present such an image, i after all, i listened carefully, well, there are nuances, there they already started to explain something , to say that it was not like that, then it’s fine, they understood that this would be a blow to them, well , the americans did it, they reacted, well done, to this rhetoric, because it is such anti-semitic rhetoric, that did not cross his mind, and this ramasvani, where he climbs, where does he want to climb with such rhetoric, that's why he was hit on the head and there is no need for...' that our candidates will be discussed in the states that they want, he is hungary , but if someone gets out who cannot pretend to be a leader and calls the head of a country at war with russia a nazi, then i

also think that we should speak out, we should say, calm down, convey our position somewhere, by the way, there is no reaction , zelensky or there, the ministry of foreign affairs of ukraine, or the ambassador of ukraine. in the united states of america, but there is zelensky's reaction to the possible presidency of donald trump, let's listen. whether it is good or bad, i do not know, i hope that the american president will always consider the attitude of the people of society. if the american society supports ukraine, if we share the same values, problems, if we understand all these challenges and the result and damage of the war. i think that any president, i don't know who it will be, will help ukraine. you said that the end of next year will be quite difficult for the united states of america and for ukraine,

including whether our future will depend so closely on who will be the president of the united states of america, or whether there are any certain structures of it. institutions that will not allow the united states of america to be in a zone of turbulence regarding ukraine. we've already been through it. and we know very well that in america it is not only important who is the president, although it is really very important. but what is the configuration that the president has two chambers in congress, the senate, the house of representatives, one chamber, as now the democrats, the senate, the republicans, the house of representatives representatives, whether it is an opposition congress. in general, the president, and a lot depends on this, personally, what is the result of the campaign, what is the trail going, what are the nuances that arise, what is the trust of partners, that is, there are a lot of factors , factors that play a role, of course,

the president of the united states can, if he wishes, make a very short period, many such isolationist steps, at least if he does not sign military aid to ukraine, that's all, no one will. but i will not sign everything, and the pentagon, intelligence, comrade, anyone, it cannot change his position, the congress also could not change it in this situation , so i think that in principle, well, you don't need to think about personalities, you need to understand that the whole configuration depends, well, and then, and why is there such a stir now rose right now that trump, he will be president again, is not a fact. joseph biden is showing good results in the elections, so we will see how things will develop, but we need to understand the key thing is that there will be turbulence, it is unlikely that

we will be able to get another aid package, as it is now, we are already considering how the americans there will accept the package of aid to ukraine, and who told you that we will not need this aid in the fall of next year, another package. for the next year, and if we already anticipate that it may not be, or that there may be difficulties , then what should we do ? to guess whether it will be president trump or president biden, thank you, mr. valery, for an interesting conversation, it was valery chaly, a politician and a diplomat, the former ambassador of ukraine to the united states of america, friends, we are working live on the air of the tv channel, as well as on our platforms in youtube and facebook, for those who are currently watching us on youtube, please take part in our vote, we are asking you about whether mps from opzh have a place in the current government, yes no, and

we will continue the same survey in the second part of our program, in addition, we are conducting a phone survey, what do you think about whether mps from opzh have a place in the current government so, at this moment, we have more than 800 people who have voted, 5% say that the place of opzzh in the ukrainian government is 95, no, continue to vote in our survey, in the second half of the program, which will start in 15 minutes, we will continue this voting and will we have people's deputies of ukraine from three political parties, let's talk about why opzh is still sitting in the parliament, we will talk about this and other things in the second part of the program,

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have become their own languages ​​for many, as well as distinguished guests of the studio. events of the day in two hours, vasyl zima's big broadcast, a project for smart and caring people. espresso in the evening. join the community with a ukrainian perspective on the world. become a sponsor of the youtube channel. and this is access to exclusive content. personal thanks, pinned comments, special icons. yes , the possibility of personal communication with the team espresso. click sponsor and become part of the community with a ukrainian perspective. espresso - interesting facts. for 10 years of its existence, the espresso tv channel has broadcast its own broadcasts in more than 30 countries of the world. ukraine, austria, belgium, great britain, ireland, italy, estonia, canada, latvia. lithuania, germany, poland,

united states, montenegro, switzerland. greetings, friends, we are continuing the broadcast on the espresso tv channel, this is the verdict program, my name is serhii rudenko, from now on weekdays, the verdict is broadcast in an extended format format, from 8 p.m. to 10 p.m., we talk about ukraine, the world, the war, the economy, elections , what is of interest today, friends, both you and us, today we have many topics and many guests, but everything in turn, i want to introduce today's guests, so this is maria ionova, people's deputy of ukraine from the european solidarity party, mrs. maria, i congratulate you and i am glad to see you on the air. mutually, glory to ukraine, glory to the heroes. mykhailo tsimbalyuk, people's deputy of ukraine from the batkivshchyna faction. mr. mykhailo, i congratulate you, thank you,

that you are with us today i wish you health. thank you, and people's deputy of ukraine from the servant of the people faction oleg dunda. mr. oleg, i congratulate you and i am glad to see you. on our broadcast, congratulations, to each other, today we are conducting polls on our youtube and facebook platforms, as well as in live telephone mode, we are asking our tv viewers about whether there is a place for opzh deputies in the current government, yes, no, if you are watching now live, you can vote by phone by numbers, if you think that there is a place for such deputies in to the current government, 0800 2011, 380. but no 0800 2011-382, if you vote on youtube , it's quite simple, choose the option yes, no, or leave your comment, if you have a personal and special opinion, ladies and gentlemen, in in the blitzopytuvannya format, i ask you to answer this question as to whether mps from opzh have a place

in the current government, let's start with maria ionova, please no, mr. oleg. my opinion is very well known, i collected signatures for the deprivation of the mandates of people's deputies of the opzh and it is simple, for the representatives of the opzh, the opposition bloc, party of regions has no place in power in the previous, in the present and i have hope in the future as well. mr. mykhailo, of course not, but it is important that it be resolved in a constitutional constitutional manner. the best option is for them to draw up the mandates themselves, understanding that the people too. of ukraine and the public does not trust them, this would be the best option. why, why exactly are we asking about this, because today the kyiv city council deprived deputies from opzh of their leadership positions, and it did so on the second attempt. we know that in 2020 there will be local elections

there was a large cohort of associates of viktor medvedchuk, the party of the opposition platform for life, at different levels, in different communities. more than 4,000 people have been elected, more than 4,000 people, they are still in power, they are still solving land issues , they are still voting for laws in the verkhovna rada of ukraine, they are still the authors and initiators of various draft laws, you, mr. mykhailo, said that it is necessary decide in a constitutional way, and if it is a party, the opposition platform during its lifetime violated the constitution, worked for... russian the federation is openly and actually prohibited in ukraine precisely as a party that violated the current ukrainian legislation and was a collaborating party, so what norms of the constitution should be applied so that they are not simply in the verkhovna rada, so that you do not go and greet them there in that sector,

they kept nodding their heads that they simply weren't there, if the question is for me, then the constitutional method, the first, that they are. they drew up the deputy powers themselves, by the way, some of them did, this is the best constitutional way. the next option is this elections, but in the current conditions it is impossible in the near future, due to the fact that this is precisely the constitutional way, i agree with you that they violated the constitution, but i believe that you, by way of violation by way of past violation, it is not worth it, because this is a road to nowhere, i emphasize once again, it is very important that, under the pressure of other people's deputies, other factions and groups, under the pressure of ukrainian society, they themselves should draw up their powers, by the way, after that, the verkhovna

rada retains its powers, and without them there will be a constitutional majority, i believe there are no problems here, ms. maria, the fact that former deputies from opzh, or, rather , deputies who were elected from a party that is already banned in ukraine, are in the walls of the verkhovna rada, this is more of a legal or political issue, if political the question is who should solve this political dilemma, well, i mentioned another 4,000 deputies of various levels who also have a representative mandate and also work, and god knew him. perhaps this is the network that putin is counting on in the event of a repeated attack on other regions of ukraine. mr. serhiu, we are with you we remember pepeya that.

refers to opzh representatives in leadership positions and in delegations to parliamentary assemblies, that we, our faction , spoke very strongly about this and demanded that the same nester shufrych not be the head of the committee, freedom of speech, because it shames the country, not only the parliament, and the president, and the government and our society as a whole, that is why i believe that it is very important to start with a political decision, and you and i both know, and unfortunately, experience shows how the opzh and there after the former opzh, there now two groups, great voting so far with eh, by the servants of the people faction, and a political decision is very important, then what mr. mykhailo is already saying, you and i know that in the regions, there is a civil society, they are really putting pressure, there are communities. this is not allowed, and that is why i think that this synergy of political and legal decisions can lead

to a result, but not in the same way as the situation with the law on confiscation of the moscow church, that is, it is important that we do this very quickly, promptly and in a legal way. mr. oleg, you mentioned that you were one of the authors the draft law, which actually provided for the banning of activities, or, let's say, the nullification of the powers of deputies from the opposition platform for life, and why , why did this draft law not pass, that is, what is the reason and who stood in the way of the fact that your ideas were not implemented? look, these bills, and there were several bills, there was a resolution regarding the deprivation of the mandates of deputies from the prohibited opzh, there were kaminov laws, as it is now, on the deprivation of mandates

of deputies of local councils, and i, my position in relation to the following, this is not at all a question for opzh deputies, in fact, it is a question for the existing local councils and the verkhovna rada, whether they are still able to make a statist decision and deprive potential or already existing collaborators, respectively, of their mandates, their seats in session halls. in the bodies of state power in one form or another, and if they are not ready to vote on it, it is about their attitude to statehood, by the way, this is also a question about the kyiv city council, well, to my surprise, for example, the kyiv regional council, or the fastiv city council, or for example, the mukachevo kyiv council and the mukachevo city council decided to deprive the former members of the opzh of the right to vote and be in the session hall, but the kyiv council failed to do so, although. it is strange, from the opj, how many people there are 12 people, less, somewhere around 10%, but the kyiv council did not vote, but

only the authority to head the relevant commissions was taken away, although with such a number, this authority is not about anything at all, there the majority, the majority of the commissions still make decisions there , and the head may not even affect it, it in fact, eye-rolling in order to simply throw off steam and not solve this issue at all, so do not confuse it, it is precisely about those heads of factions, precisely members of factions who make such bad decisions in general, and what, in general, is my point of view, what what we have in 30 years is what mr. mykhailo was talking about, it is about the fact that from the very beginning in 1991 we did not conduct the so-called political lustration, we actually did not clean up, ukraine did not clean up its , let's say, the remnants of that soviet world of russian peace that we had in 1991 year, what, for example, the czech republic did there, or the baltic countries

did and have no problems with the representation of russia in their state bodies, but we always forgot about it, did not want it, and it had its weight, and to this day it continues, and we have those problems, that blood, that war in the end, which we have today, on our territory, it is because we have not made this decision for 30 years, and it does not speak very well about the current term of office. and about the previous cadences, which did not consider it expedient to solve it question, in fact, for all deputies, for all the authorities for 30 years of ukraine's independence, but look, you know, mr. serhiy, you can add about local deputies, because in fact their powers can be stopped, it is important to stop them, and who were elected for by the list of the opzh, and this is a ban party, and it is important to prove it in court, something that applies every time mr. oleh talks about the preliminary convocation, nevertheless, let's not forget that it was important for us to get visa-free, it was important for us to get democracy

there was a large majority of this party, but we began to work, gain independence and spiritual strength and strengthen institutionally, and this convocation had more opportunities to complete this matter, so everything is in your hands, we only support, and let's do it together, mr. serhiy, then i will comment, since i am commented on , now we had a vivid example, when for the sake of tactical issues, solving tactical problems , we forgot about the strategic issues of statehood for years, so we have what we have for this exchange, here is a vivid example, we exchange today's votes in order to lose the future strategic interests of the state, that's all, and now, i will allow you to remind me that without a visa-free agreement, without an association agreement, there was no application and no start of negotiations, you are just a little bit about statesmen, you

are manipulating, you say beautiful words that don't have, i'm saying what is, we had 30 years to solve the issue and there are always some or other issues, why don't we solve the political issue, because today we need to vote, you have a small majority, once again, let's decide today visa-free tomorrow you will solve another issue, the day after tomorrow another issue, yes 30 years, 30, lelezhe, you are repeating yourself, mr. mykhailo, please give me your word, there is another legal way to deprive them of their parliamentary powers, another thing that the law enforcement agencies have started to do, if mr. serhii correctly observed that they violated the constitution, other laws, we have a legal regulation, that is, law enforcement agencies are obliged to respond, bring them to criminal responsibility, and when

the court decision enters into legal force, their... this is one for legitimate reasons, to deprive them deputy powers. by the way, some deputies from the former opzh are currently being held criminally liable. it is very important that the activity of law enforcement agencies is effective, and perhaps this will encourage some of the others, including those in local councils, to quickly and voluntarily draw up a mandate. well , but probably not everyone will be imprisoned. mr. sergey , a small comment, i think that no matter what the leaders of the czech republic thought in the early 90s, or the leaders of the baltic states, no political lustration would have taken place there in general, they did not look at the fact that all representatives of the communist regime should be brought to justice, they decided that it was a criminal regime, these people were related to the criminal authorities, they were aware of where they were working, to deprive them of their political future so that they would not

influence , and we know how quickly they will get to the european union, to the members of the... community , moreover, i want to note, i conclude, i conclude, moreover, i want to note, we have prohibition parties, but for some reason it is considered that those people who filled these parties with ideas, well, you understand that in the party it is not the chair, not the seal that decides the issue, it is the people who are inside, who are in charge, who go to the session hall, who fill the party with ideas and ideology, for some reason the party is forbidden in our country , and the people who filled this party with ideas, for some reason, it is necessary to carry out criminal cases for many years, time is passing, another cadence is coming, and so we enter with one each year, thank you, mr. oleg, mr. mykhailo, let's finish discussion about it, please, in conclusion, this is the rule of three-converts, i think that the current government has already had enough time to correct

the mistakes of its predecessors, let's still say specifically what you should do based on the current situation, not to say that everyone is to blame predecessors, sorry, four , almost five years is enough time to correct, once again i emphasize the mistakes of all predecessors for 30 years of independence, that is why the people elected a monomajority, i will just add a small remark, since i was a participant of the student revolution, and our demands included re-election of the verkhovna rada, it was in october 1990, and then, by the way, representatives of the national-democratic camp did not strongly support the students regarding the fact that the parliament should be restarted and the number of 239 communists should be zeroed out , who were in the verkhovna rada, that is, they did not go for re-election then, that is, this whole story has a very long, chronology, which we can talk about, but here the question is, what should we do now during the war, when there are open