[000:00:00;00] in the western regions of ukraine, where the air temperature will drop, so noticeably, and precipitation will come there, and we understand that when rain meets low air temperature, the precipitation will turn into sleet phase , so keep a close eye on our updated forecasts on the espresso channel. i say goodbye to you and further the verdict by serhiy rudenko, let's watch together. good evening, we are from ukraine, glory to ukraine, this is the verdict program, my name is serhiy ordenko, i greet everyone and wish everyone good health, now

every weekday the verdict will be released in in a two-hour format, from 8 to 10 p.m., we talk about ukraine, about the world, about the war and our victory, about everything that interests you today, our dear tv viewers, dubinsky on narakh, students against farion, why 2024 will be a turning point for of ukraine, today in the program. the occupiers intensified their offensive, which is taking place on the hottest areas of the front. russia is stockpiling or preparing missiles. an aggressor country, massive shelling of the energy industry, and will the second military winter be dark for ukrainians? talk of schism, who benefits from spreading theories about the competition between zelenskyi and zaluzhnyi, and whether there really is a conflict. we will talk about this and other things for the next hour with our guests, people's deputy of ukraine roman kostenko and diplomat pavlo klimkin. in

those before starting a big conversation with our guests, i suggest you watch a video of how today the students of the lviv polytechnic protested against iryna faron, demanding her dismissal from the teaching position, our goal is simple, to achieve the appeal of iryna parylovna, this is very important for in order to. the polytechnic is open to dialogue, you have questions today, we invite you, representatives from representatives of your

organizations, invite you to dialogue. our position is published on the official website of the university, a commission has now been created , which is studying this issue, the results of the commission will be published on our website . and no other. well, you see, a real student riot, we will talk about it later our next two hours, of course, and in the meantime, friends, i want to remind you that we are working live on the channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms, for those who are currently watching us on youtube and facebook, either please like

our video and also subscribe. to our pages on these platforms, in addition, you can participate in the vote on youtube , today we ask you whether you are ready for a long war with russia, yes, no, please vote on youtube and also on our telephone lines, on the screens you are now see the phone numbers, all calls to these numbers are free, so if you are ready for a long war from russia, the phone is 0800 211-381, if not? call 0800 2011-382, i will remind you once again that all calls to these numbers are free, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. so, our first guest is roman kostenko, people's deputy of ukraine, colonel of the security service of ukraine. mr. colonel, i congratulate you, i am glad to see you in our virtual studio. good evening, each other. mr. colonel,

let's get started. on the topic of iryna faron, it is not surprising, because the riot that was staged today by students at the lviv polytechnic, it also concerns iryna faryuon's statements about incorrect statements about military personnel, and she immediately got into two scandals related to language issues about russian-speaking military personnel at the front and about a student who was in crimea, and now after it was released, after farion released a message that he also sent to iryna, the fsb came to this student, this story has already gone far beyond the boundaries of the language issue and far beyond the boundaries of the lviv polytechnic, you, mr. colonel, as a person who has been involved in the national security of ukraine for a long time, how do

you perceive this story from farion and the fact that this story has now begun to be professionally pumped up by the russian media, using this topic and this scandal in general, well, we see that the russians constantly use the question... language and they do not need to give the opportunity to play on it once again, yes , we understand what we have our language and raise the question once again, and yet the question , you say correctly, has already gone deeper than just language, we give the russians the opportunity to play on what they are doing, on those statements made by our ex-detat women there or er, opinion leaders, er, who are there, who speak, including in the mass media, so it is necessary to maintain , first of all, this information hygiene and you need to follow very closely, if you have the opportunity to join the mass media, if in you have the opportunity

to formulate an opinion, you must clearly understand what your statements can lead to and how a thief can play on this during the war, well, without a doubt, iryna faryona. is trying to appeal now to volodymyr zelenskyi, as to the supreme commander-in-chief, that some servicemen spoke about her very, shall we say, incorrectly, in particular, the deputy commander of the third assault brigade, maksym zhororin and the chief of staff of the azov brigade, bohdan krotevich, those people to which she appealed that azov people, they do not speak their native language, that's too much. bad, as far as you are concerned, but in the current situation, during the current war, it is correct to reprimand a non-military person, people who are at the front, who risk their lives every minute, to reprimand them for

speaking russian among themselves somewhere in their daily life, well, you definitely don’t need to tap, we definitely have it, look, language is our weapon, and i myself, too, once upon a time... i spoke russian for the most part when i studied in odessa and there, when i served in the security service, yes, there now i have also made a decision, i am talking ukrainian, of course, we need to try to speak ukrainian, and we understand that in a year we will not make it so that the whole country will speak, i know many people who have been russian-speaking all their lives, and now they speak ukrainian in principle, and this must be done, it is necessary, uh, it is necessary to talk about it, it is necessary to motivate , to give such an opportunity, but definitely, definitely not to reprimand, because someone, reprimand the people of azov, who fight every day there for our country,

that they are not are patriots, because of the fact that before that, that's how everything was built, that we had two languages, one russian, one ukrainian, i think that this should definitely not be done...' mr. colonel, on the night of november 14, the pechersk district court of kyiv in closed session chose a preventive measure against people's deputy of ukraine oleksandr dubinsky, he was taken under custody for 60 days, he will be in sizo until january 12 , 2024, he is accused of treason, that he was an agent of the main intelligence department of the ministry of defense of the russian federation, let's listen. dubinsky said the night he was elected preventive measure in court. the detention petition, the accusations, i was put on a preventive measure , saying that i will be detained for 60 days for

12.2024, that is, the new year season is called, for the tests. of course. well, he is most interested in seeing if they will be there. mandarins, well, he tries to joke, but it's not really funny, because in the last two months , at least two people's deputies of ukraine have been expelled from the verkhovna rada on suspicion of treason, it's not storshov. oleksandr dubinsky went to sizo. in your opinion, mr. colonel, what is the way to check people's deputies and senior officials of the ukrainian government whether or not they are involved in working in russia, it can be a lie detector or in some other way, because somehow it looks very strange when in the 10th year of the war and on in the second year of the great war, we have gru agents sitting under ...' the floor of the verkhovna rada passes laws and bills, laws

pass and propose their bills, and the state lives on those legislative initiatives proposed by russian agents, well, the security service must work in the process, not here the issue of checking the people, well, of course, if you are going to do it, you can do it with a polygraph or even with consent, although this is not a hundred percent proof. but if a normal polygraph examiner asks questions clearly enough, it can be understood that there are many questions. i think the question here is the following: the security service should carry out constant work, since it does this with politicians, with public figures, and already at the stage, let's say so, of how a person sees, comes to power. show this or

that information, if there are any reservations, if it is not an election issue, but there, for example, the government, then, as a rule , the security service must provide such information when there will be an appointment of ministers or deputies for each of them, in order for its management decision to be made correctly, therefore, the work here should not take place specifically when a person already falls into a state, but in the process. well, yes, of course, if according to the sbu investigation, dubinsky was recruited in 2016 by the ministry of defense of the russian federation, he was elected to the verkhovna rada in 2019, and only in 2023 will the sbu nominate him suspicion, well, it’s obvious who among us in the 19th year, bakanov was already in the sbbu, that’s right , it’s indisputable, that’s right, the lists were formed even then... if there were any, he went according to the lists,

the servant of the people party, not according to the lists, he the majority was, if i'm not mistaken, and well, then you had to work, and you had to do, if you were sure that there was some information behind him, that is, he came under the flags, and now he turned out to be a traitor, so the security service did not work well, well, he was not only a majoritarian, he was one of the leaders party... a servant of the people, because he led the kyiv regional organization of the servants of the people and we, we do not say, now the most important question is, yes, what is the person, while there is no trial, we do not accuse anyone there, we do not say, traitor, not traitor , a lot of questions may arise in the process, the investigation process, everything is just fine, we see, there is pinocchio , malvina, the court, arrested, now the main thing

is the evidence, because, well, we are still a legal state, and now the main thing is, wait for what the evidence will be, and how it will happen, the court already directly, er, i already mentioned shufrych, and dubinsky, and obviously, russian agents or agents of the gru or fsb, there are still enough in the ukrainian government, too, out of respect. according to your feelings, just how many of these russian agents are in the current government, dozens, hundreds, thousands, usually, these are the networks that are being created, do they make up the specific weight that allows them to simply do sabotage within the government during a large-scale war, under the time of the great war, well, i think, definitely not thousands, i think that there are definitely, just different levels,

there are real agents, there are moles, there are agents of influence at the highest levels, which russia will receive and grow and, let's say, push into our power, who can take there to be involved in making complex management decisions, there are, as they are called , sensitive, who still remember the soviet past there, er, who somewhere remember how good it was under, er, soviet power, and try to somehow help the russian federation, they do not cause much harm there, but they also give a certain information, well most of course. the problem is with the agent influence, those who, with the help of russian manipulations, with the help of russian money, occupy medvechuk the same, others occupy state positions there in the verkhovna rada, or there in the office of the president or in the government, and then

they make certain decisions, economic . , representatives of the russian special services are in the ukrainian authorities, and uh, apparently the special services also know about this, but the fact that they were not, in some way , distracted from the authorities and did not copy them in advance, is this a violation of public service and service in the security service of ukraine? no, if they know, they should isolate them from the authorities, not always uh, maybe sometimes there is no evidence, sometimes there are

some questions, sometimes uh, maybe everything is much more complicated than you and i think, so of course, upon... the first appearances, upon proof, these people should be removed from their positions, or they should be monitored around the clock observation, all their actions must be analyzed, and this is work, well, look, i don't want to reveal now the forms and methods, how it happens, but the work must be done, and if there is some evidence, they should not be destroyed, they should not shut up, they should be shown, concretely. and at least counter-intelligence cases should be opened, then criminal ones based on them. mr. colonel, i am also interested in one topic that has been actively circulating in the press for the past few days, this is

the possible resignation of three commanders, this the commander of the medical forces of the armed forces of ukraine, tetyana ostashchenko, the commander of the operational-strategic group of troops tavriy oleksandr ternavskyi and the commander of the united armed forces of ukraine serhiy naev, yesterday the ministry of defense of ukraine officially reported that there are no talks about the resignation of these three generals, and it is about the fact that someone leaked false information to the press, at the same time, at the same time, according to how this information appeared yesterday in the media space, because i tracked how it it happened, that is, the information clearly came from the higher offices, and whether it was, in your opinion, a leak of information, or was it still an information and psychological special operation, er, of an enemy state, let’s say so, er, it’s difficult

to say, we saw how it all spread, also tried to understand yesterday, they are in the top military-political leadership there, they said that they also ... do not know anything about it and that it is someone's specific throw, that at the level of the ministry of defense and the general staff such issues were not discussed, so i i think that in principle i believe, because i was told, and i think that this is a question that was dispersed by someone in particular, maybe for as an informational and psychological operation, i have no other information yet, that once again, i called, asked, i was told that it is, well, what, that it is not discussed at the level of the ministry of defense. well, perhaps, in order to prevent such dumping and dissemination of this information, perhaps it is still necessary to adopt changes to the law, which

would provide that the change of commanders takes place, including with the consent, the commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine, that is, the minister of defense of ukraine, according to the current legislation, can submit both appointment and dismissal, but in wartime , well, obviously there should be a visa for the commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine, because when khurenko was dismissed, they said that everything was done procedurally correctly, the fact that he was not informed, yes, but it all happened without valery zaluzhnyi, yes, that's exactly what is needed, i think, about pro'. mechanisms directly to ensure that in wartime the commander-in-chief at least understands that happens in his, in his army, which he controls, and not like today... you have one commander, tomorrow some politician wanted, gave you another commander, and you agree, you don't

agree, let's decide who lies responsible for, success on the battlefield, and you can't assign one to yourself, another factor in the success of the armed forces of ukraine and the commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine is ammunition , german defense minister boris pisturius suggests that the european union will not supply ukraine with the promised 1 million shells until march let's listen to what the german minister of defense said. the most important question is whether 1 million shells is a realistic goal , some people think that we should be careful with this, because 1 million is not that much and the money is there, but the military industry has to work, unfortunately they have right, we have a lot of... thanks to our framework agreements and we will continue to do so, but we are also in dialogue with the industrialists and we are asking them

to increase and speed up the production of their products. as for mr. colonel, the lack of these ammunitions, promised by the european union, will be felt ukraine, and this is 1 million shells by march, how will this affect the russian-ukrainian front, and in this case , will ukraine not have to... look for these 1 million shells, buy them somewhere else, or negotiate about the supply, i don’t i think that there are many places in the world, in addition to those that were promised, where you can find such a large amount of ammunition , as for the soviet samples, there are practically none of them in countries that are friendly to us, other countries either do not give them to us, or they cooperate with the russian federation , because they have some neutrality, they do not want to quarrel... with those not with those, as far as western models are concerned, then, in fact, what it can

do, it can be said, it can be said on our active actions, our counteroffensive, because we do not have enough now, what will be given, even less, and i have such information that they can provide less ammunition, then the question will no longer be about any active actions, we will have to stand on the defensive and make do with ... what is available in order to gain positions, and save money , at least for any counteroffensive, save up, make reserves, which is difficult, if we are honest, in in the conditions of such a war, in the conditions of the fact that the russian federation has long-range weapons that can cover almost all of our territory , so we need to make some decisions, i don’t know what to sink, it is possible to make some reserves in neighboring territories or something else, because there is always a heart they pour blood. when there the russians fall into a certain class with ammunition, and what we have now is worth its weight in gold. mr. colonel, the lack of these

ammunitions is evidence that the west was not prepared for such a scale of war, that is , there is a lack of ammunitions, they do not have time, but how then it is possible to oppose russia, having a shortage of ammunition, with a projectile shortage, well, the west has ammunition, but they have a minimum, for example , which they will definitely not give us, because they themselves need ammunition, we understand that geopolitically, the current tensions are such, we see the middle east, we see what is happening in south asia, southeast asia, there is such a stabbing going on there, and we understand that everything should be left to ukraine, they will never leave themselves without shells, but also the production, according to information, the united states in a year they can produce no more than 3,000 ammunition and the whole of europe can produce no more than 3,000 per year at the moment. the russians, they say, and our

intelligence and ask in the mass media , can produce up to 2 million different types of projectiles themselves. we see what kind of discrepancy there is, plus we see that north korea is already starting to deliver, yes there are problems with shooting, there are problems with ... technical tables, but these are the breakfasts that they can, with which they can work, so of course it is necessary to increase and we need to build our own production, and our partners need to build up, because the next 50 years, i think, the world will be engaged in the same way as in the cold war, which is arming again, arming so that there is no war. well, that is, if we take into account the forecasts of the americans that war is possible in 2027-35. and a war, or a military conflict between the united states of america, or with china or with russia, it

means that we are entering another arms race, that is, as in the soviet... union, when the soviet union and the united states of america were accumulating these weapons, and so am i i understand that russia is now winning due to these reserves, which were made even during the soviet union, because as these satellite images show, starting from moscow, all the way to the urals, there are warehouses and equipment, well, of what quality, that is already a question, but the fact is that russia is leaving now at the expense of these reserves that were under the soviet union, is it true, at the expense of the quantity, at the expense of the quantity, projectile goal hunger they also have, i understand that north korea, see , we have a slightly different projectile hunger, they have a projectile voice, we understand, that they may be starving of ammunition on the front line, due to the fact that we are somewhere with some logistics forces, but in general , strategically, russia still has large reserves, but

what are we talking about, if for the war with ukraine, it has large reserves, there is something to oppose, but russia is not pitting its power against ukraine , ukraine, in ukraine it wanted to show how strong it is, and in order to remain there as a world player, a regional leader, in addition to fighting with us, it needs still have large reserves in case nato, yes there, we theorize, they will be attacked, they must have, without missiles, with which they can strike there. they have, must have artillery, tanks to solve conflicts there, in other parts of the world, because the country can be considered either a regional leader or a world leader, when it can intervene in other states, including by military means, and the russians now they spend all their resources on us, we grind it here, burn it, and they try to make ends meet at the expense of production, at the expense of

pulling resources from the same of north korea for... to stay afloat so that they have some kind of reserve, they understand that their partners also see how they are running out, and nato, as our president said, has not arrived yet, they are simply handing over weapons to us, but at the same time there, the same old tanks, leopards a1, remain on the floor by themselves, in fact not spending large reserves of weapons, mr. colonel, andriy yermak, while in the united states of america, said that 2024 will be a decisive year. for ukraine and for ukraine's war with russia, what do you think should happen in 2024 so that it was decisive and turning point for ukraine. but i already heard about the 22nd, decisive about the 23rd, now we have the beginning of the 24th, i would not like to comment on it , listen, we have to do everything in order to

destroy more of the enemy, we need the 24th to become we need the authorities to do everything so that we are fully equipped with weapons, so that by this 24th year we have our own missiles that fly 1000 km, but we cannot do 300, what flew, can't our defense industry, so that we make our own explosives, so that we make our own ammunition, so that we can his equipment, a lot needs to be done, if we are talking about the military way, of course, if he knows anything about the diplomatic way, about some negotiations, it is possible, but if it is about the military way, then a lot needs to be done, which so far has not will do thank you, colonel, for your participation in the program, it was roman kostenko, people's deputy of ukraine, colonel of the security service of ukraine. friends, we are working live on the tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms, for those who are currently

watching us live on youtube and facebook, please like this. do not accumulate videos in order for this video to be promoted in youtube and facebook trends , and vote in our poll, today we are asking you about whether you are ready for a long war with russia, why are we asking this, because there are many predictions , about the fact that it will be a long war between russia and ukraine and we will have to defend ourselves for a long time, if you think, if you are ready for a long war, then please vote 0. 800 211-381, if not ready, 0800-211 -382. at the end of the program, we will sum up the results of this vote, maybe we have intermediate results, if so, please show us the screen, we will see what the results are now,